I want to break Free

[Dev]

Interesting that Astroboy is giving advices regarding marriage and spirituality so elaborately though he is unmarried and not spiritual(as claimed by him) . But his astrological skills help him to write on any topic.

Dev

[astroboy]

Just to clarify , For your information , The "art of living foundation " and the "art of living on other people's money foundation" are two different organisation who have no connection what so ever .

one is run by this man

his_holiness_sri_sri_ravi_shankar_laughing.jpg

the other by this ,

bob_marley_27.jpg

But I am not sure which one is running which organisation .

[nidi83]

Interesting and very different point of view. Rather very different way of putting across things. Will wait for the rest. Reserve my opinion till then:) . Dev I think its more to do with his observation skills and experiences rather than astrological skill I would think with regards to the writing above.

Nidi

[Dev]

Nidhi:

Yes I agree, he does a lot of sincere reading (of books) and am told, he has a huge collection of astrology and may be spiritual books too. Then internet is a great source to have for reference in any topic. Yes,he has good observation skills and his experiences in the past have also made him to befome very much oriented and once this happens, u can master any field. I still believe, he has started with astrology and moved to other topics as well. May be the liking for other fields was hidden within and got trigged by astrological skills and interests. Anyway such elaborate writing helps others and that is good .

Dev

[astroboy]

Before I continue Nidhi ji , I dont want you to think that I am a woman basher and a MCP . Let me categorically state loud and clear "I worship women kind and love them from the bottom of my heart " . In fact I have lost my heart to so many women . . I respect women and I know they are the rock in a mans life .

I dedicate this to all women kind http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=mILsx_c-vXw ( Its a high Def Video . please wait for it to buffer and then watch . Its a must watch . )

[suniti]

Dear Astroboyji

i've been reflecting a lot on this point. I'm not going to go into the issue of marriage but there is something i want to say about what i think about spirituality.

even if we look at the idea of moksha, it is not goal oriented, nothing can take us there. As far as i can understand with my limited mind its all about being, which you already are. Maybe its just seeing that thing. What is needed to see?

Nisargatta Maharaj was a beedi seller with 4 kids, Hastaamalaka never even spoke, Janaka Maharaaj mounted a horse, i tremble at the thought of them

There are others we don't know who maybe don't have the Yogas for being well known.

These are just my thoughts

thanks
pranaams
suniti


Emily: Does anyone ever realize life, while they live it....every every minute?
Stage Manager: No, saints and poets, maybe...they do, some.
from the play Our town, by Thorton Wilder

[astroboy]

by p.mahesh » Fri Feb 04, 2011 1:28 pm
Astroboyji,
"You are not doing justice to your marriage , Nor are you doing justice to God"
Interestingly, all our superior Gods are depicted in our puranas as married, some has more than one spouse,
they have children,over and above Indra, Chandra etc.. who has entry passes to visit Vikuntham, Kailas etc.
to see Gods.
So, can we say Gods are not spirtual and renunciated? whereas humans have to be spirtual and dettached to
see the Gods, who themeslves appear to be not Spirtual etc.
Regards,
Mahesh

Good dayto you dear sir ,

You used the right word . The key word here is "Depicted ". Just to empasise on the meaning , depiction means to "represent graphically by sketch or design or lines" . We pictured God in many permutations and combinations . Lord Shiva has been depicted , sitting lovingly with Parvati , Also depicted as Kala Bhirava . We have given God many forms to suit our social contexts. In short , the depiction was done by us humans . what can you expect from us ? We depict things to suit our conveniences . We have done it over several centuries , and we shall continue to redefine our depictions to suit the contexts .

And at the end of the day , God can do what he want , Cause he is God, and we are only Human . Just to deviate from the topic , I was flipping channels 3 days back and stopped at a channel which was airing a program on the Bible . The speaker said " The whole bible can be put in 1 single line . "I am god the almighty " and straight away you realise that God can do anything . . Christianity has instilled the fear of god to such an extent that when the life of a child is taken away due to starvation people say "Its Gods will " . People do not stop to realise that God just became a "perverted maniac and a murderer "........ because if a human had killed a child , it would be termed as a "perverted manical act " . Some preachers even suggest that God has to be "served" with "Devotion" . By saying this , these preachers have just labeled God as a "egoistic megalomaniac" . I dont think any body has paused to understand the real relationship between God and man . Its a tragedy .

Our puranas depicted God as married because that was the only way to establish "Social order" . People where supposed to look at Vishnu and Lakshmi who are blissfully together and enact the same scene in their lives . But that has not happened to date . .

So to cut a long story short , Its all a matter of Depiction . In my view , I insist that Renunciation and Marriage do not mix .


Best regard's
deepak .

[chaks]

Our puranas depicted God as married because that was the only way to establish "Social order" . People where supposed to look at Vishnu and Lakshmi who are blissfully together and enact the same scene in their lives . But that has not happened to date . .

deepak .

That was very well put. I have always maintained all our religions and depiction of gods have to do with social order and standardisation in society, which is largely good.

[astroboy]

Nidhi ji , Let me continue ,

Life is all about Karma , Punarjanma ( Rebirth ) and Runanubhandana . Every man craves for companionship of a woman and viceversa . Why is this so ?? you have to go back to the Sankya philosophy for it ,

"Sankhya sees the universe as a continous evolution from a /" Big Bang" event during which a sense of Separateness developed within a portion of the singularity in a unmanifested form. That portion of the one which sees its'self as seperate is known as "prakriti" and the reminder which remembers that all is one is refered to as "Purusha" or the one reality in unmanifested form. The law of karma comes into effect at the instant Prakriti or nature seperates from Purusha, The first act from which all other acts develop, This is a act motivated it is said by a spontaneously arising desire with the unmanifested form to experience its'self thus producing individuals who might perceive and know it. Each atom of the cosmos contains within it a fragment of that singgular consciousness who desired to experience.

Look at life. Look at human life in particular. The urge to create is simply irrestible It's like a itch which needs to be scratched and the more we scratch the more we feel good about it. why do we create ? why do we have the urge to have childern and thus populate this earth. We know well that the lesser we create the more resources we have. Look at china which limited the tap 30 odd years back See where they have reached and look at us. Dont go microscopic, look at the larger picture, you have to agree with me that smaller numbers make more sense. The urge to create comes from the very desire of a creator so that a new life may experience life, look up to its creators, make the creators proud with it's achievements and look after it's creators when the need arises. The parents are the creators. they are proud of their creation and expect them to conquer what they could not, have a better life than them and experience a better life than them. This in a nut shell is a egoistic act. Being proud is a basic instinct. I once asked a friend of mine why she decided to have children she said " I wanted to have a child who would be a mix of my husband and me to celebrate our union as man and wife" I nearly fell out of my chair when i heard that. This is when i realised that to experience one's self is the primary motivation factor even in human's.
So the bottom line is simple. We can stop playing this game now and end this world in 120 years because if a child is born at this very moment he will not survive beyond a vimshottari dasha cycle, and if all the children born at this very moment decide not to experience themselves through their progeny then that's the end of the play. It's as simple as that. we hold the power to stop the play, But Nature does not want us to. It's god who started this silly game............ but we continue to play it. We play it even if we cant play it and induce more and more misery into this world. simple as that.

A society can thrive only when there is growth . Growth can occur when there is order , Order can be maintained where there is a concept of a family . A family starts when there is a marriage . So it all boils down to this . Its all about growth and money .


Now renunciation demands that we withdraw from contributing to society and contemplate on God . Imagine if the whole world did it at once . what whould happen to the world and who would provide these renounciates with nourishment ?? Some body has to grow and produce food for these people right ?? It is because of this , that society shuns renounciation . It urges you instead to continue growing and maintain a family . This way you contribute to the economy and the economy grows .

[Basab]

So to cut a long story short , Its all a matter of Depiction . In my view , I insist that Renunciation and Marriage do not mix .

Deepakji,

I hope it is okay to read spiritual books and indulge in spiritual talks after getting married. I mean, I hope there isn't a problem flirting with spirituality; as there is, flirting with girls after marriage.

[astroboy]

Basab ji , Its is a must to flirt with other women when your wife is not looking , and it's a must to flirt with spirituality when your wife is looking . If you do it the other way , You are finished . Ram Naam Japna , Paraya maal apna .

[Basab]

Hehehehehe... I hope, I will remember your tips, Deepakji: my birth chart doesn't promise a good marriage is what I have been told.

Kismat ke karan mein range hato pakda
Biwi se phir hua zor ka jhagda
Kismat ne kiya mera mu kala
Biwi ne boli mujko abe sala
Uski pitai pahuchaya mujhe haspatal
Ek nurse ke khubsurati ne kiya mera dil behal
Talak shrikar kiya meine biwi se jab
Nurse shadi shuda hai pata chala tab
Kismat ko chayen mila tab
Haddi ke baad mera dil tuta hua dekha jab

[astroboy]

Basab ji , This concept of marriage looks nice from the out side But It's like a mouse trap , The ones out want to get in , The ones who are in want to get out ."Papa bole Beta kabhi na karna shadi Yeh hai jeevan ki barbadi Beta bola Papa mai farz nibhaunga Apne bachcho ko bhi yehi samjhaunga."


I have a friend of mine who is married . I once asked him if he is happily married for which he replied "please Do not use these two words in the same sentence . " He is always encouraging people to get married , I asked him "If you are not happy why do you recommend others to get married" , For which he replied "I cant stand to see these unmarried men have fun . "


Look at what Yaana Gupta has to say , http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=g2ybwxq9 ... re=related . Marriage looks as attractive as her , You touch it and you will be burnt .

[Basab]

Deepakji,

I agree with you. The same thing I have heard about marriage, but isn't it the same when it comes to leading a materialistic life? Don't we get burned by that kind of life every moment but still desire to live it? I don't think there is anyone in this world who is living a materialistic life will not say that life is a hell. That's what we all say, and when we are told to leave everything for God, we don't do that. So why point our finger just on marriage! It is maya, and we can't run away from it. That is the truth I have realized. How much we talk about spirituality, when it comes to walking that path, we will turn away from it.

[astroboy]

Agree whole heartedly Basab Ji ,

[Basab]

Aseem,

I had a crush on a nurse once.

[astroboy]

Who has not had a crush on a nurse Basab Ji ???

[Basab]

Finally we agree on something, Deepakji..

Agree whole heartedly Basab Ji ,

[roseyrose]

[Dev]

Hi Rosey Rose:

So u feel one should be optimistic and he achieves everything and one who is a pessimist achieves nothing. May be partially true but then I have seen that even optimists when in too much distress become weak mentally and discouraged.

Dev

[DHV]

Dear Astroboy, Nidi, Maheshji devji and all respected and learned members who have been reading and contributing to this thread

Our scriptures clearly state that merely by renunciation one does not automatically reach God. In this day and age it is not the done thing to go to the forest, eat berries and roots, wear orange clothes and do tapascharya (pencance).So how does one get to God? The truth is that a married householder through his or her devotion (bhakti) can be just as spiritual as a “sanyasi’


In the Bhagwat Geeta 3:04 the Lord says“By merely abstaining from work one cannot achieve freedom from reaction, nor by renunciation alone can one attain perfection”

The problem with this renunciation is that a lot of these so called sanyasi’s, sadhus and holy men in this kaliyug are fake. They don on white and orange robes, launder huge amounts of money and partake in sordid acts behind closed doors (like the example Astroboy gave), yet fool the public in the name of God. True renunciation of the same caliber as Adi Shankaracharya and Gautama Buddha is very rare.

I quote Lord Krishna’s words from the Bhagwat Geeta;

3:06 "One who restrains the senses but whose mind dwells on sense objects certainly deludes himself and is called a pretender"

3.07 "On the other hand, if a sincere person tries to control the active senses by the mind and begins Karma yoga (his duties whist partaking in devotion) without attachment, he is by far superior”

In Hinduism sanyasa (renunciation) is recognized as being one of the four stages of life for a human being, the other three being brahmacharya (pre marital celibacy, time for being a student and acquiring knowledge), grihasta (married householder, having children) and vanaprastha (retirement or forest recluse) and then sanyasa (renunciation). Renunciation comes after one acquires knowledge and performs his obligatory duties (karma) towards his parents, his family, and his society. The urge to procreate is a natural human instinct and acting on these urges in moderation within the sanctity of marriage during the “grihasta” part of life, whilst simultaneously leading a life of devotion is ones duty and does not take one away from spirituality or God.

In the Geeta Lord Krishna says

5:5 “renunciation of work and work in devotion are both good for liberation. But of the two, work in devotional service is better then renunciation of work.”

You can be married and still do “bhakti” (devotional service). You must perform your duties with detachment and offer them to God. However it is when sense gratification takes over your whole life that it becomes a hindrance, an impediment to spirituality and an obstacle stopping you from getting close to God.


In the Geeta Lord Krishna says;

3:33 “Even a man of knowledge acts according to his own nature for everyone follows the nature they have acquired from the three modes. What can repression accomplish?”

3:37 “It is lust only which is born of contact with the material mode of passion and later transformed into wrath with is the all devouring enemy of this world”

3:38 “As fire is covered by smoke, as a mirror is covered by dust or as the embryo is covered by the womb the living entity is covered by different degrees of this lust”

3.40 “ This lust resides in the senses, the mind and the intelligence. Through them lust covers the living entity’s true knowledge and bewilders him

3:41 “therefore oh Arjuna in the very beginning curb this great symbol of sin (lust) by regulating the senses and slay this destroyer of knowledge and self realization.

Note that Lord Krishna talks about curbing sense gratification by “regulating the senses”not completely repressing yourself, for that would be going against the nature of a human being and is impossible(or very very difficult) to do. Hence there is the institution of marriage.

Also for all those examples in our literature of when a women beauty has tempted many a sage there are examples of how a pious woman through her devotion has taken her husband towards upliftment, brought him back from the dead, been his companion in dharma (rightousness) and washed away his sins. Some examples are Savitri, Ansuya, Sita and Mandodari.

My point...Women are not always an impediment to spirituality... and nor is marriage!

I bow down to Lord Krishna whose divine words I have quoted here today. I am sorry if I have misinterpreted anything or conveyed these slokas in the wrong way.

Kind Regards
DHV

[nidi83]

Dear Astroboy,

My language may not be as colorful as yours but i agree with your viewpoint completely. Infact I would go one step ahead and say total spirituality is an impediment to marriage. One cannot do justice to both. Ofcourse when it comes to renunciation, marriage is defnitely an impediment. Recently this couple that i know off has filed for divorce. Reason - Wife met this guru and over night became spiritual(the guru by the way is out on bail). Well she still thinks he is God Himself who has come down in the human form. The husband and wife had a lot of fights and finally filed for divorce. What about Gautam Buddha. He left his wife and renounced. What happens to his karmas. He will still have a rinunabandhana with his wife as he did not fulfil his obligations in this birth I would think. This would have been carried forward. It is easy to say do everything without attachement. Now is that possible in todays day and age? I dont this so. I would rather be practical about these things and not fool myself. Yes I can be spiritual and married, but spirituality at what level is the question? I like your thought process astroboy.

Thanking you,

Nidi

[astroboy]

Good day to you Nidhi ji ,

Thank you for your kind words . I come from a school of thought which believes that unless you detach your self from woman , child , career , and other materialistic desires , a man can get no where . The Geeta sounds all nice and practicle , but having worked in the shipping industry now for 14 years, I can tell you that the kind of "Karmas" I have done to fullfill my role in the organisation , I am not going anywhere close to god in the next 10 lives . . The more you step on the path of the material , The further away we are going from spirituality . Tell me some thing , how many people who went to shabrimale this year will be attaining Moksha after death ?? 30 million people visited the shrine this year .

let me tell you this , we cannot blame god for the kind of crap we are in . Aseem wrote a interesting article in his thread , Its just beautiful and sums things up the best . I reproduce it here for your benefit , "

"Man, with his boasted intellect, has to learn lessons from birds and animals. Even animals have more self-control than men. It is only the so-called man who has degraded himself much by indulgence. At the heat of sexual excitement, he repeats the same ignoble act again and again. He has not a bit of self-control. He is an absolute slave to passion. He is a puppet in the hands of passion. Like rabbits he procreates and brings forth countless children to swell up the number of beggars in the world. Lions, elephants, bulls and other powerful animals have better self-control than men. Lions cohabit only once in a year. After conception, the female animals will never allow the male animal to approach them till the young ones are weaned and they themselves become healthy and strong. Man only violates the laws of nature and consequently suffers from innumerable diseases. He has degenerated to a level far lower than that of animals in this respect."


check this out , Its george Carlin at his best . Here he talks about Kids . Please open it if you are not fussy about bad language and have grown up . People can be so sensitive , Its getting difficult to live now a days .

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=yIXlwYoO ... re=related

Bad language used . Please open only if you have grown up . Not for the sensitive butterflies

More later ,

[astroboy]

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=BB0aFPXr ... re=related

Some thing more on how we think we can control earth .

[astroboy]

Good day sir ,

I remember a quote from the famous stand up Comedian George Carlin , He said , and I quote , "We created god in our own image and likeness! and not the other way around " . Having said that , I do not deny that Lord Rama , Krishna , Buddha , Mohammed . Jesus, and Guru Nanak , actually lived and walked this earth . But they lived life in accordance with the social conditions and times , and set parameters in accordance with the prevalent social standards .

Please note , I am not saying Marriage is Bad , Nor am I saying a Materialistic life ( in line with dharma ) is bad . All I am saying is , the closer you are to the two , the further you are from God .

And any ways , Krishna and Rama , were realised souls and god's themselves . Why do they need to be spiritualistic when they are God's themselves .??? what is the motive for renunciation ??? To get closer to themselves ?? They are God's for christs sake ............ . We are the pests who need to get to God not the other way around . God can do pretty much what he wants , he can even be married 72 000 times and still not get attached to that Karma .

Best regard's ,
Deepak .