I want to break Free

[astroboy]

All fine except that his yogas for renunciation and asceticsm are not strong . Why is he between wealth pleasure and public adulation ??? what has made him seek fame instead of sitting by the banks of the river and indulge in learning the scriptures ?? or why not go to the himalayas and indulge in tapasya .

I have said it before and I shall say it again,

In my opinion for a man to turn towards God , there must be a systematic failure of all houses connected with Material gains . Like the organs of a dying man shutting down one after the other . The 6th and 8th and the 12th houses need to be very very strong . Shani , Rahu and Ketu and Kuja should be super strong and malefic in intention , kicking a man in the stomach and pushing him to the ground every time he tries to stand. He must reach a stage where one day he will scream in agony and then say " God , enough , I have had enough . Now I want you . " . That is the start of the journey towards God . There is no other way . This is the only way . The seeds of Spirituality is planted in the soul when all the dross of the Material is burnt ( Dross is a mass of solid impurities floating on a molten metal . what remains after the impurities are removed is pure Metal . Be it gold or platinum .)


The secret killer for him is Shukra. Shukra is in the 3rd house of desire along with Chandra . The lagna is itself in Bharani Nakshatra ruled by Shukra . Shukra aspects the 9th house . the 9th is the house of Dhrama . Shukra and Dharma does not blend well . The Planet for detachment Ketu is in the 2nd house of wealth and is debilitated along with the 3rd lord of "desires " . Guru looks good on paper , But he is in a gandanta Degree and is powerless .

Most important of all , the 2nd house of speech is aspected by 2 malefics and is posited by 2 malefics Budha and Ketu . I need not have to stress that all that he talks has to be taken with a pinch of salt . To make matters worse Both Budha and Ketu are in the Moons nakshatra .



Finished

[purohits]

Dear all:

Would it have been more beneficial for members like me, if we had put down basic tenets of advaita and dvaita and dicussed what it means in various contexts and left it to readers to choose what appeals to them(if they have already not).

I have not read any books, but the way i have understood based on what i heard is that dvaita is know as tatvavada
1. so, it talks of essence of everything - and things are infinite (ananta) so god is ananta
2. jeevas put their efforts in understanding one essense after the other and continue ethernally as ananta cannot be understood ever completely - And if we look around(with whatever senses we have at any given point in time) it appears to be true. Hence God's qualities are infinite
3. Its a layered(gradational) approach and it ever remains - again appears true
4. God doesnot create jeevas (us) and we just exist - so, if the jeeva(i) have No Choice than to exist Continuously either in Ingorant State Or Refined (enlightented) State Or Anywhere between the Two, it Naturally has to depend on Everything Other than the self(i), Hence Eternally Dependent. This holds good even in the Liberated/Salvation/Moksha State of Consiousness because Conciousness is tagged to an identified (i-Jeeva).

So, this works on the principle that Once a dependent Always a dependent - Even though the jeeva-i's experence keeps changing continusoulsy. I for this lifetime, after going a full circle got aligned to this thought.

If a jeeva(i) had an ID when ignorant where is the ID gone after attaining moksha/liberation. Should it remain or NOT?

This builds a dependent-independent relation ship for everything

5. Tatva- Essence of things (gross and suble and anyother) - Code of/for creation and destruction of everything should lye somewhere, SO give a name which does not represent Creation or Destruction - So, say Sustainence - then which comes first? Sustenance, creation or destruction - ?? This can be only answered only if WE ever come to know the Beginning of Jeeva-i OR Beginning of Everything.

But, if we accept, Beginingless and Endless, then Code of Creation and Destruction has to be maintained/sustained and hence given primary importance. And anything and everything that happens in TIME And Space is within the Sustained.

So, Tatva vada only goes to say that each Jeeva-i, has to put in efforts to know the essence of everything(GOD-Infinite) and understand the actual workings/form of the thing a jeeva is inclined to understand.

A crude example that my little brain can bring about is- between kerosene and water - they may appear similar from distance but actually does different things to the Material the Jeeva-i is PRESENTLY working with - But, if Jeeva-i, is in a diffferent state the same Kerosene and Water would work differently with regard to that jeeva.

Sorry for interfereing in the nice discussion you all are having.

These are my thoughts, and I guess I am entitled to.

Warm regards

Sridhar

[Basab]

Only when people suffer, they turn to God, ask him to help them and so on and majority of those also turn to astrologers.

Dev,

You are wrong there. Who suffers the most? Those who begs sitting on the street! Do they care one bit about God, or do they care one bit about astrology? No, they don't because they don't have time for God or money for consulting an astrologer! They try to find some food for themselves, somehow, and that keeps them busy all their life. They are the ones who suffer, not people like us!

I am saying all the time I am suffering when I am sitting in my own house, getting 3 meals every day, and that too of my choice, and eating good food from restaurants quite often and watching TV and listening to the radio and using the internet all day and buying whatever book I wish to buy and being treated nicely by my parents and having everything I want, and even then, I am unhappy because I have not made anything of my own! Well, that is so much suffering for me that I can't tolerate it! Huh! 'Shame on me' I feel sometimes when I look at those people on the road, who are sitting all day on the road begging for a few rupees to feed themselves and their family. And they are not complaining, but I am complaining! Shame on me! I call myself a sufferer, when I don't know what suffering is.

A person getting ditched by his girlfriend commits suicide because he couldn't take the pain that he had to go through, and people survive with one meal a day! What a shame that we call ourselves sufferers. What do we know about suffering! When a person goes to bed in empty stomach not knowing whether he will get food the next day is the real sufferer, not people like me and others who cry for their petty problems that they have been cheated in love or they are having problems in office or not getting a job. If you get 3 meals every day, if you have a shelter and if you have clothes to cover yourself with, stay content with that and don't ask for anything more. But no, we can;t do that. We will cry instead when an insect bites us and take to spirituality and astrology. What days have come, my god! I feel ashamed that we people have lost our eundrance.

[astroboy]

Check out Ravi shankar's Veshi Yoga (Buddha) Mercury occupies the 2nd house from Sun.
This variety of Veshi Yoga shows that the person is sweet-tongued, handsome,( To some ) and capable of fooling others with his talk . . I dont know if this Yoga is active though.

[Dev]

Basab:

You are wrong.
See u cannot say Kabirdasji is wrong, he is a realised soul, not like us. I quoted his doha also.
See u are talking about yourself. You are talking about your health problems sometimes but u say u are not spiritual. You are an exception. Dont compare with those beggars, they have no other alternative than to beg, they resort to stealing sometimes. They have no other option than to beg. When they beg, most people mock at them, push them aside and dont even give money. What else they can do? They are not great souls just because they dont complain. If they are handicapped sympathise, if not no. Your suffering is good enough for u to complaint, nothing wrong in that, if u overcame that, u become enlightened soul but none of us have reached that, some are definitely higher I agree. U are no in a state like them, u dont really ask for others help, but u are only worried about ur own health not cooperating. So nothing wrong in that. About love failures, I dont think, it is worth complaining unless it is really true love. If it is infatuation, what is the point? Then he or she does not need any sympathy. If it is love of the hearts, then yes, if not just for money or physical appearance, they dont deserve any sympathy. Dont compare that with health issue because health unless deteriorates due to our own bad deeds of this janma (like getting AIDS), one will always sympathise an unfortunate person who is say having juvinile diabetis, is blind or deaf or dumb or is polio attacked or handicapped in other ways.

Anyway u see the rich people, how many talk of spirituality. They enjoy all pleasures of the world, dont pay tax, have bogus swiss banl accounts, are they spiritual. Then think of the common people like us and when most of us suffer, we go to astrology and spirituality. go to temples, gurus and so on. It is there that some bogus gurus exploit us in these situations in terms of money and sex. U know that.

Dont talk of beggars, I am talking of human beings classified as those
who attained fame say cinema, music, politics whatever and are very rich
common man who suffers due to having no job, no money, love failure and so on.

So tell me these rich people and famous people, how many are spiritual? Most have many vices. They may donate even 50 lakhs to ashrams and so on but are they spiritual, they do to show off their money power and so on.

So think what I said in the context of all people, not u alone. Your complaining is not bad at all, u have health problems and u have every right to talk of it, since health is important. It is health which is blocking u from taking up a regular job and so on. Still u are a believer of God and karma. That is great, no doubt. , so u are actually burning ur karmas.

Dev

Who suffers the most? Those who begs sitting on the street! Do they care one bit about God, or do they care one bit about astrology? No, they don't because they don't have time for God or money for consulting an astrologer! They try to find some food for themselves, somehow, and that keeps them busy all their life. They are the ones who suffer, not people like me!

I am saying all the time I am suffering when I am sitting in my own house, getting 3 meals every day, and that too of my choice, and eating good food from restaurants quite often and watching TV and listening to the radio and using the internet all day and buying whatever book I wish to buy and being treated nicely by my parents and having everything I want, and even then, I am unhappy because I have not made anything of my own! Well, that is so much suffering for me that I can't tolerate it! Huh! Shame on me, I feel sometimes when I look at those people on the road, who are sitting all day on the road begging for a few rupees to feed themselves and their family. And they are not complaining, but I am complaining! Shame on me! I call myself a sufferer, when I don't know what suffering is.

A person getting ditched by his girlfriend commits suicide because he couldn't take the pain that he had to go through, and people survive with one meal a day! What a shame that we call ourselves sufferers. What do we know about suffering! When a person goes to bed in empty stomach not knowing whether he will get food the next day is the real sufferer, not people like me and others who cry for their petty problems that they have been cheated in love or they are having problems in office or not getting a job. If you get 3 meals every day, if you have a shelter and if you have clothes to cover yourself, stay content with that and don't ask for anything more. But no, we will cry when an insect bites us and take to spirituality and astrology. What days have come, my god! I feel shame that we people have lost our eundrance. Shame on people like me!
Dev

[Zarna]

ooopps...I am scared to read this much & fearing for writing again.It is like a feeling being a primary student going to learn something with your simple questions in front of ur class teachers meeting when all teachers are talking something very serious.For a chil-pill a student says "Jay shree krisha" to all you.

Zarnaji,

You are nourishing lot of wrong notions. I may humbly suggest you to take deeksha and start reading "Narada Puran" OR "Bhagvat Puran". Please do not read anything else before you read these. You will not have any questions left for us.

Regards
Sonu

Namaskhar to you Astrosonu Ji,
You are here like one man army with vedic theory as your weapon!You make me remember my Grand Pa.People are interpreting it in a wrong way.Anyways,I dont want to go in tht bt want to ask you something.I am wrong with "Moksha" or others too?I am also eager to take deeksha but I dont really find any Sadguru around me.Perhaps "Samay se pehle,Kshamta se zyada na kabhi kisiko kuchh mila hai na milega."So when my time will come I will get my sadguru till tht will sing & get happiness from"Ram ratan dhan payo...."Astrosonu Ji,I read Bhagvat puran but my problem is when I read puranas(I also read shiv puran.daivi puran)I get so many questions coz so many things are there,which is not practicable in this world.& moreover when I get something new from puranas I get pride on tht...i dont know bt it automatically happens...I start behaving like I know more than others...so then I left reading tht & started some of things to implement in my day to day life which I like & can follow.So I read now Shreemad Bhagwat Geeta only when I get confused in some mater.Another question I wanted to ask you is where the hari-bhakta like Meerabai,Narsimh mehta goes?I mean doing tht kind of bhakti wil lead you to moksha?Sorry I again asked you so many questions.Par ho sake to answer digiyega par gussa mat hoyega.I respect you a lot coz knowing purana/veda & believing in it firmly & yet saying "Na aham karta shree hari karta" is very difficult to achieve I guess.I would like to know from you more abt how you deal with day to day life with this vedic theory.bt will ask you in some other topic.
Thanks & Regards,
Jay shree krishna.

[DHV]

Dear all

Read the Bhagwad Geeta. U will find all the answers in there.

Regards

[kandhan]

Without refuting what astroboy has stated about Tapaswi yoga(is that possible?), here is another version that i have heard(so many yogas share same name): Ketu, Sat and Ven conjunct or aspecting each other. A person who has single-minded devotion towards a very specific thing. It can be in any field. Whats more, he is not bothered about the results of his efforts; in fact the pleasure for him is in the effort itself. what more is needed for potential for greatness? when 5th or 9th house/lord involved the area of effort is spirituality related.

Has pravrajya yoga been discussed yet?

[Dev]

Hi Kandan:

I have the 7 planet conjunction as u know which includes ketu, sat and venus.
As u said, if I concentrate, I will achieve that, but it has till now been only my subject, languages, music, slolas and some astrology and some spirituality. The last two I am still a novice but I would say, astrology I always loved as I loved learning any my subject, music, languages like sanskrit, German and so on. However, in spirituality, I knew very basic things only and am still a novice. I am trying to learn slowly.

Dev

[astroboy]

Kandan Ji , You are right , So many yogas share the same name . I have enclosed in this thread what ever pravraja I have come across I have come across . I am trying to Dig up more . Will post it as I find them .

[Basab]

Dev,

You are wrong.
See u cannot say Kabirdasji is wrong, he is a realised soul, not like us. I quoted his doha also.
See u are talking about yourself. You are talking about your health problems sometimes but u say u are not spiritual. You are an exception. Dont compare with those beggars, they have no other alternative than to beg, they resort to stealing sometimes. They have no other option than to beg. When they beg, most people mock at them, push them aside and dont even give money. What else they can do? They are not great souls just because they dont complain.

You are giving a different meaning to what I have said. You didn't understand what I said. I said that if a beggar can endure all the suffering and humiliation without taking help of spirituality or astrology, why can't we? We can, but we choose the easy way out for ourselves. If they can endure, so can we. And then, when they don't complain, why are we complaining? You will say they don't have a choice. What kind of logic is this? Will be do immoral acts if we get the chance to do that? Won't we restrain ourselves?

I am complaining because I don't have enough problem. I am discussing spirtuality becuase I don't have enough problem. If I don't get my next meal, will I be sitting comfortably in front of my computer to write this? No! So I can talk about all this only when I have not reached the worst stage in life. So it shows that we complaing about things without which we can do.

About me, you are seeing me now. I used to consult astrologers all the time in 2004-2005, just after my bad time started in 2003 end. I had consulted 10-12 astrologers or even more in 2 years. I spent a lot of money on them. I even bought a pearl as astrological remedy and that was quite expensive. So it is not that I became what I am in the very beginning. You change with time and with experience. The astrologers kept on showing me rosy dreams, and I paid them money for that. My logical mind was never ready to believe in what they said, but then, I was in a soup, and I needed some consolation, which they provided me by telling me that I will do very well in life after this sub-period gets over and after that sub-period gets over and after this transit and after that transit. And I believed them because I wanted to.

But then, I realized that I was wasting my time and my money. I thought that I better to buy books with that money than waste it on consulting astrologers. I wore the pearl also for 1.5 years expecting some miracle, and then, when nothing happened, I stopped wearing it. I thought let me suffer without that pearl than with that pearl in my finger. I started learning astrology on my own to pass time and to know about my own life and not waste money on astrologers.

But then, with time astrology started boring me. I stopped looking at my chart. I thought what is destined will happen anyway, so why bother about what the chart says and why learn astrology? And then, you can't accept destiny when in huge difficulty, that also destiny proved me. Once, I remember, I had a bad pain in my stomach due to acidity. It was those days when I was believing in accepting everything as my destiny. Destiny got me to undergo an acid test by giving me stomach-ache due to acidity. I thought to myself, let me suffer the pain as I believe in accepting my destiny, but I couldn't suffer it even for a minute and had an antacid tablet and got relief. So even someone like me had to use free will. I had to use it many times more, and I still use it now when I find myself in an impossible situation.

Now, after I got bored with astrology, I took to spirituality. Read quite a few books on it for 2 years, not finding interest in anything else, but now the interest in it is also slowly waning. As I know, spirituality can't help me tackle my misery. Nothing can help me tackle it.

It is funny, but it is true that good story books gets me more relaxed than spiritual books! A good movie or serial gets me more relaxed than praying to God! And when you are down, it is said you can't help but remember God. I don't remember Him. The face of my favourite actress comes to my mind when I feel low!! So I am a competely materialistic person and not an evolved soul. Spirituality is not for me, I have realized.

[astroboy]

Dear all , I want to one point very clear,


Sannyasa is the order of life of the renouncer within Hindu scheme of āśramas, or life stages. It is considered the topmost and final stage of the ashram systems and is traditionally taken by men who wish to dedicate their entire life towards spiritual pursuits. In this phase of life, the person develops vairāgya, or a state of dispassion and detachment from material life. He renounces all worldly thoughts and desires, and spends the rest of his life in spiritual contemplation. One within the sannyasa order is known as a sannyasin.

In renouncing the world, the ascetic becomes, for all religious and social purposes, dead. A ritual death is, in fact, part of the rite of renunciation itself. The ascetic is no longer bound to perform the Vedic rites enjoined upon twice-born men; he leaves his family behind to live a homeless life. This state of being ritually dead is reflected in the laws relating to ascetics found in the Dharmaśāstras. Laws pertaining to renouncers are closely connected to and overlap with laws relating to the dead. Thus, Viṣṇu 6.27 states that when a debtor dies, renounces the world, or is in a far-off country for over twenty years, his male progeny should settle his debts. Nārada 13.24 allows the brothers of a renouncer to partition amongst themselves any inheritance he may have received from his father, except for a portion of money which should go to his "widow". Nārada 12.97 allows a wife to remarry if her husband disappears or dies, or becomes a renouncer, a eunuch, or an outcaste. Some texts, however, require that a man have provided financially for his wife and children before renouncing.[16] Relatedly, Nārada 1.7 states that if a renouncer dies in debt, all the merit produced by his spiritual practice goes to his creditors.

Thus, renunciants are not only socially dead but legally dead as well. Like any dead person, they cannot enter into new contractual agreements. Kauṭilya provides a clear expression of this in the Arthaśāstra when he states that transactions cannot be completed by dependents and renouncers (3.1.12). Nārada 1.159-169 includes renouncers among those who cannot be questioned as witnesses in a court case.


The sannyasi lives a celibate life without possessions, practises yoga meditation — or in other traditions, bhakti, or devotional meditation, with prayers to their chosen deity or God. The goal of the Hindu Sannsyasin is moksha (liberation), the conception of which also varies. For the devotion oriented traditions, liberation consists of union with the Divine, while for Yoga oriented traditions, liberation is the experience of the highest samādhi (enlightenment).
Now the moot point here is , Can Ravi Shanker ji be called a Sanyasi , or a renunciate as per the definition of the word Sanyasa ?? what has he renounced ?? Other than not being married and producing children , in what other way has he renounced the world ?? I will show you 10 people on this forum who are much more dedicated to a spiritual life than Ravi Shanker. Where is the detachment when you are surrounded by Money, people, music , press , Politicians , wanting to win the nobel peace prize, grabbing attention from the press , Building and expanding your so called "Spiritual empire " and raking in money to start new centres ?? . Is he concerned about the welfare of the people ?? May be he is . I cannot speculate on that issue . Does he want world peace ?? Who does not ?? The point is that he is working for it . Thats a good point . But thats where it ends . He is far from being a Renunciate and very very far from being a Sanyasi . Let me make this very very clear , the fact that a man is unmarried does not give him the flavor of being a sanyasi . He has a excellent platform to renounce no doubt, But unless he does that as per the defination given above, he is nothing but a man who chose not to marry . That is where the story ends .[/b]


Note,
I am in no way criticising him . He has his attributes , people follow him , Good for them and him . But let us not confuse issues . My question is , can he be called a Sanyasi as per the definition of the word . Simple as that.

[milredr]

hahaha Basab, first and foremost, that humour is back. Gr8 to c that. Don't ever loose that. U r absolutely right. Basab, the only time i started reading books and really got into praying is when i had issues with my pregnancy. Once it was alright, i forgot all about spirituality. I even read books like Autobiagrophy of a Yogi and thoroughly enjoyed it. Once i delivered i was into books like Rich Dad Poor Dad by Robert Kiyosaki(by the way its a good book, read it). I have blind faith in God, but the time i spend with him is hardly anything. And i really feel bad about it. One thing i faithfully do, i thank him everyday for all his blessings and thats how much spriritual i am these days . To be frank with you, i was seriously learning astrology till i came on this forum. After coming here i have even forgotten whatever little i know

[Dev]

Basab:

No, I did understand what u said.
See if a tiger comes chasing a coward and catches hold of him, he would try all means to kill the tiger with his nails or whatever to protect himself. Somehow he gets inner strength and may even end up surviving. This is a different situation and u cant call him a bold person in reality though he shows he is bold in extreme circumstances like survival of the fittest.
Similarly beggar is in an extreme state for longer time and he is used to begging and has no self respect. He is used to getting scolding and all that. Of course if he is handicapped and begs, u have to symnpathise. U know some beggars came out as biggest karodpathis.
So beggars case is different and they dont have endurance, they do not have self respect too (other than old, handicapped, diseased ones) and the latter ones will have endurance since they have no choice, they are born with some limitation because of their karma.

Will be do immoral acts because we get the chance to do that? Won't we restrain ourselves?
This cannot be compared with that but even here, people when subject to some lust may do it under cirsumstances be it lust for money, materials, women, or fame or whatever.

I am complaining because I don't have enough problem. I am discussing spirtuality becuase I don't have enough problem. If I don't get my next meal, will I be sitting comfortably in front of my computer to write this?
See I said, ur case is different. All people who suffer even to ur extent, usually take up spirituality. I am seeing in my coemployers and employers in other places nearby that those who dont like or dont resort to spirituality are those who are lucky in terms of profession, money and family. They drink, have affairs, cheat their family, do earn in all ways, and all that and act without conscience(not all) since when they are happy on account of money profession and family, what else they need. so they think they are the boss. God does not appeal to them, they think they achieved all this on their own while others are not able to.
While those who are suffering on all three above or atleast wrt one of the above are different, they are spiritual, pray to God, read holy texts, go to Gaya, Kashi, do japs and all that, hear discourses and so on.
I have analysed them well and so dont contradict me.


I agree that u used to consult astrologers, after your bad time, and that is for all. Anyone does that unless he does not believe in astrology.
Yes several bogus astrologers are in the market too and u can get carried away and cheated easily. In the name of parihara, they will eat ur money but it happens to all, when we suffer, we pay to get astro advice and then we realise, he has bluffed and then that becomes late realisation ie realisation after the event happens. It is like burning ur finger in fire trying to test how it feels when u are young.

See, u tested astrology and spirituality, liked it (atleast astrology) but then got bored. It happens so. U say u leant how to live with destiny. That means that u feel if astrologers or spirituality would help at one time or if the destiny changes on its own, but none of these happened and so u have no other choice but to live with destiny and if it changes for good and helps u, u will take it that is all. I only feel u are hurt by the happenings and u are forced to accept whether u like it or not because it is destiny, it is not a neighbour who is causing problems wherein u can go solve that. But it is neverthless bold on ur part but then what else can u do. Some may take up vices due to suffering but u havent and that is itself a good sign. But if u enjoy your favorite actress on screen and even off screen that is OK, nothing wrong with that but then also with some astrology and spirituality to keep contacts in this forum. It definitely helps u whether u agree or not.

Dev

[Basab]

Thank you, Milredr. I really didn't know that my humour was such a hit! I used to think that I am the 'king of pj's', and yesterday only I was telling Aseem, while chatting with him on facebook, that I need to grow more serious and also telling him what a girl had told me long back... Anyway, coming to the point: I am very logical in my thinking. But honestly speaking both astrology and spirituality has helped me, and I will be ungrateful to them both if I am not honest about it.

My 'knowledge' in astrology has given me a lot of respect among people in my society because they are in awe of someone who can predict the future (they don't know though I make predictions on the basis of my logical analysis and not astrological analysis). So that helped me in getting a lot of respect from people and kept me in the limelight always. It also helped me in defending my failure in life. If someone tells me that I have to do something about my career, I can't just laze around, I have that one answer ready for me always: 'it is destiny.' I have been using it here as well as you know. And as they know I am into astrology, though I have left it long back, they can't say anything after that.

About spirituality, I am not spiritual, but I behave like one who is spiritual in front of people who may look down upon me. I just pretend that I have reached another level of conciousness to bother about materialistic things, though they don't know that I have found my 'goddess' on TV and not in a temple, which proves how much spiritual I am.

About the book, thank you for suggesting it. I checked it: it is high-funda stuff. I like reading fiction mostly. Sidney Sheldon, Agatha Christie are my favourites authors. I like books which are light reads, but heavy in worldly wisdom. Spiritual books, like 'Autobiography of a Yogi' are really fantastic. I will not deny it that I have learned a lot from those books. They have oepned up another world in front of me. It's really comforting to read spiritual books, but at the end of the day, a failure makes me feel low. Spiritual wisdom doesn't help there.

Yes, I do believe a lot in God too, Milredr, but I don't feel like praying to Him. I mean, I talk to Him sometimes, but that's it. He understands Me. After all He is my creator. I find it amazing when people call me spiritual because I am in no way that, but then, I do pretend to be that when people start looking down on me as a loser. Then I give lectures on spirituality like 'What is success? Isn't it maya?...'

When I joined this forum, I was serious about astrology, but in the last one year, I have hardly written anything on astrology, and I don't feel like also. I have lost interest in it totally. The very thought of it gives me a fever. I will better flaunt my knowledge in spirituality now.

[astroboy]

My dear friends, Let me tell you this , The truth is bitter , But it has to be swallowed . No swami ji , Guru, or Sanyasi can become popular unless there is media backing him . Media backing needs Money . And Money comes when you have Devotees . Its a cycle . With devotees , Money , and Media comes the Politician . Once these things happen , the police creep in because now the "Guru" becomes the power centre . after a long hard day of work does the Guru need some entertainment or not ?? In walks the women for comfort . This is how you get a "Shri Shri Shri , Nithya Ananda Swamy Ji . Let me tell you , when my client and me relax over a drink he tells me some stories which would make you want to go and kill these people with your bare hands . He says " My friend , this is reality , God has become a whore in the hands of these Swamiji's and Guru's . This is why you find people who come back to this earth as donkeys and asses and are wipped to death. The law of Karma is the only way to deal with these people . They are lucky they have the power to attract people , But power deludes them . I run a establishment where i have to feed 300 people at the end of the month . I need such swamiji's and spiritual guru's because they are power centres . All deals are done through them . I have to hang around with these jokers to get my job done . This is life and this is reality . God has run away from all this a long time back . "

I am not implying that ever religious head belongs to this catogory , But the majority are caught in the Maya that is associated with being a religious head.

[Basab]

You are right, Dev, about what you have said. I agree with you completely.

[Basab]

One thing i faithfully do, i thank him everyday for all his blessings

Milredr,

I know you have faith in God, and you believe that whatever good has happened in your life is God's blessings to you, and I am not trying to change your belief here, but just asking you in a logical way: what about those people who have not been blessed by God? Should they criticize Him every day for not blessing them? You may say that we should be happy with what we have and thank God for that. But suppose a mother loses her child, what will she say to God? 'Thank you God, for taking back my child from me? There must be a blessing hidden it it.' Is that what she should tell her God? And that is when the question comes to our mind: why is God partial to some? Why does He favour some? Suppose if you go through a lot of difficulty in life in the future (I pray sincerely from my heart that it never happens like that), will you still call God and thank Him for all His 'blessings'? And if not what will you tell Him then? Will you stop believing in Him then? Just want to know what you think on this matter.

[Nitin21]

I am wrong with "Moksha" or others too?

Zarnaji,

Please do not embarass me with all those praises. Veda and Puranas in one lifetime in kaliyuga, even if one shloka can be understood in its entirety, one can get better birth next time. And here I am attempting to understand those first. My knowledge is not even 1/4th of some of the respectable senior and elder members here. I thrive on proper application of that 1/4 or 1/nth knowledge, not the volume. All this by Gods Grace and not my ability.

With regards to your question, it is first essential to understand what is "Moksha" ? Per the usual understanding of the MASS, it means merging with the Lord. And the implicit understanding is that merging is instant. This is not so.

A soul takes thousands of birth in lower yonis to reach human part. In human it takes thousands of birth till he realizes the importance of Moksha Sadhana, and after such realization few thousand years more of the Brahmin birth to fully comply with the knowledge of Moksha and the methods to achieve it. Moksha is liberation from cycle of life and death. Meaning you are not going to be born again on this earth after you gain Moksha. This is because a soul is never dead nor was it born. So, it stops acquiring bodies hereafter. So, when a person gets a brahmin birth, one should make the best use of it and move forward in the path of spirituality.

After aquiring Moksha, the soul which is a thumb size, stays in Vaikuntha dham, of Shri Vishnu, always serving Shri LaxmiNarayana never to return back to earth. Vaikuntha is infinite in size with hundreds of Suns like ours illuminating it with glory. There is no unhappiness or grief there, as it is abode of the SarvaGuna Sampana Lord Shri Vishnu along with Mata Laxmi. Vaikuntha Varnan requires entire page to describe and even then it will be less.

Now the question arises is how do we gain Moksha ?

Only a brahmin gains Moksha, none else. For others they gain heavens on deep devotion to the Lord. For those, this devotion gives them better birth in next cycle to be able to do moksha sadhana. Remember, Pandava souls have still not got Moksha they are still in the bodies on earth. For a brahmin to get into Moksha Sadhana faultless execution of following in the few hundred births is a must:

1. Understanding of vedic literature (MUST)
2. Be well versed with all Shastras
3. Sustain manasa Shuchi via Yagnovapeet gained through Upanayanam Samskara at appropriate age
4. Gayatri Upasana for 3 sandhyas continuously. If a brahmin fails to do so for 3 consecutive days or 9 times, he ceases to be a brahmin and becomes Vratya. Such a brahmin falls below in the category of a Shudra even though being born to brahmin parents.
5. Japa, tapa, homa and Pranav Sadhana

When all this activity is done, the chita part of the sukshma sharira stores all this information and the soul moves to next birth with this as his past credit. The new birth starts with this account balance and further Sadhana is prompted. Lord gives all the necessary environmental support to the person who is close to Moksha by giving him birth in a brahmins family, nearby religious places etc.. Basically any framework required for the Sadhana is provided by the Lord to the deserving soul.

Along with this the prarabdha associated with the past births is also fulfilled.

After completing Moksha Sadhana, the person becomes Aparoksha gyani. He sees lord everywhere with his Gyan and bhakti. After this no prarabdha is generated, but past ones are fulfilled. So, there is a possibility of a human to finish Moksha Sadhana but still aquire a birth as a bird in next birth as past prarabdha. Until PRarabdha exhausts, moksha cannot be Got. The only difference is that while in the birth of the bird, all agami and sanchita burns away and prarabdha is not generated. The punya of the person is distributed amongst his well wishers and the papa prarabdha if any (very unlikely after aparoksha gyana) is distributed to his haters.

When one gains Moksha, the soul departs from the body via Sahasraar. The centre region on the top of the skull. Some may achieve this state via Samadhi, while some may have natural death but still the soul departs via the route of the sahasraar.

After the soul departs, Vishnu dootas carry him to Vaikuntha, instead of Yama dootas. Yama does not touch souls who are Vishnu Bhaktas. He has been specifically instructed not to do so.

Once the soul reaches Vaikuntha, he serves Shri LAxmiNarayan there till pralaya. During pralaya such souls merge within Narayana. It is only at this time that the merging happens.

Best Regards
Sonu

[Nitin21]

Dear Jan,

If such saints exhibit symptoms of their last life as per scriptural definitions, then this is their prarabdha birth after getting aparoksha Gyana. So, its quite possible that such personalities are just exhausting prarabdha but have already got aparoksha gyana and finished moksha sadhana in previous births. Only an enlightened tapaswi can tell the difference. I am too small an entity to tell exactly. But one this for sure, without brahmin birth moksha sadhana cannot be achieved. Just to add, our shastras prohibit a woman to take sanyas. Their soul is not conditioned astrally to be in that state.

Deeksha of OM mantra can be given by a Sanyasi or a Brahmin who has had siddhi of such mantra. Else even if it is chanted umpteen times, there cannot be a definite result. The vibrations will give warped results if chanted without deeksha and procedures. It always has an element of uncertainty in it as well. For e.g. the mantra may give a high qualifying job, but as soon as the job ends, there is uncertain poverty.

Other cultures have to abide as per their Shastras. So, they go to respective heavens or hells depending on prescribed activities in their scriptures. For e.g. a muslim may not attain hell for having beef if it is not prohibited in their scriptures, but a hindu definitely will. For every person the line between dharma and adharma is drawn by Shastras.

Regards
Sonu

Dear Astrosonu,

What about saints like Ammachi and Yogananda for example who are not brahmins, do they have to take birth
again as brahmins to get free ?
What about people from other cultures who is liberated ?

Is it wrong of a saint or Avatar of Ammachi's status to give diksha of mantra OM to others ?

Just curious of the design of such a cosmic philosophy ?

[Nitin21]

Dear Jan,

You are talking about books by mortal people. These cannot overrule shastras. I am talking about content from Smritis and Shrutis of the people of the likes of Parasara, Ved Vyasa, Jaimini and others. There lies the difference. Self realization is a big word. Most of self realized souls today are mere buzz words than actual realization. It is kaliyuga. Realization is difficult. Some or more of the souls mentioned have exhibited very high level of devotion to the almighty. Which is kind of nitya aradhana for them. Realization is a big word. Can't be used for everyone.

Dear Astrosonu,

Thanks for sharing your wiews.

After having done Sadhana for long time from a western birth, having got diksha from
Indian saint who actually is a woman I'm a bit surprised by these wiews.
Have not met these kind of thoughts in reality before, in spite of having great interest reading of Indian saints and
Guru's, I'm used to more liberal teachings.

Shastras and scriptures may say so, but none of the selfrealized teachers I studied hold such wiews what I can remember. And I must have read
hundreds of books by saints or disciples associated with:
Yogananda, Muktananda, Nityananda, Ramakrishna, Ramana Maharshi, Aurobindo, Anandamayi ma, Shivananda, swami Ramdas, et.c.

How come ?

[Nitin21]

Dear Jan

In kaliyuga we do what we like to, not what we are supposed to. There is the difference.

[Nitin21]

Dear Jan,

You have made few assumptions here:

1. The yogis mentioned are living embodiment of scriptures - If you yourself mention that they contradict scriptures, how can they be living embodiment of the same ?
2. They are in awakened state - When point 1 is a contradictory assumption, how does this one and 3 and 4 hold good ?
3. They are in direct contact with Brahman. - Should'nt they be liberating everyone one by one ? Are you liberated ?
4. They are channels and manifestations of divine source - Again if point 1 is contradictory, this does not hold good.

If all of these were true, you would'nt be asking if Shastras should be upheld against the preachings of these saints. You would have been liberated already after reading those 100s of books you claimed.

All in all you are saying that Sage Parasara and Jaimini was less enlightened than these ?

The saints you claimed, some of them are devotions to the almighty of the highest order. But, let's not make them the four points mentioned as above. Half of the population would have already been liberated by reading their books by now.

The few of the divine manifestations are Shri Madhavacharya and Shri Raghavendra Swamy. Garga Samhita mentions 4 seers whose words should be taken as true. Other than that, every mortals word is fallible somewhere or the else.

As someone said here all roads lead to Rome. But if correct road is not taken, you have to also take visas of Afghanistan, Iran, Iraq, New Zealand, Singapore and then reach rome.

At the end of the day, you will not erase everything that you have learned by reading those 100 books. And since you have made your mind to live by preachings of the mentioned saints, why investigation of scriptures at this late stage ?

Last but not the least, I would say if there is any discrepancy and one is confused amongst the two, the life of Shri Hanuman can be easily taken as one to be abiding by Shastras. Every act of Shri Hanuman is dedicated to Lord Rama. Even if a person follows Bajrang bali alone and lives rest of the material life with daily chores, he shall attain better next birth. One need not know all 4 Vedas and 18 puranas to get a better birth or heaven. Knowledge about Jeevothama Shri Hanuman is enough, as he is the living embodiment of Shastras. (Remember, he is chiranjeevi).

Trust this helps.

[suniti]

Dear Astroboyji

i was wondering if in this thread you could look at the horoscope of someone who many feel to be a real renunciate.
I want to know what was there exactly

Ramana
December 30, 1879
Madurai, TN
00.59
i would appreciate that and maybe it would clear up some concepts in my head about renunciation and jataka

suniti

[astroboy]

I swear on my mother's and fathers life , I was just going to write about Ramana Maharshi . This is unbelievable .