I want to break Free

[astroboy]

by anuradha » Wed Feb 09, 2011 4:18 pm

Deepakji, On page 63, I could-not find. If you are talking about the chart of Mr J.L Nehru because it is aspected by the malefic Mars it is a Chandal yoga otherwise it gives a good promise of spiritual life, page 50, Tried Techniques Of Predictions And Some Memoirs Of An Astrologer, By Sh K.N Rao Ji. Regards anu

Madam ji , I went through the book as recommended by you . page 50 talks of no combination . Page 51 talks of shani aspecting the 9th . Thats it . let me read from page 39 . its about Jonas Salk . page 43 is interesting . . Let me go through it . we shall discuss this at length . As usual , you really provide fodder for thought .
Best regard's

[anuradha]

Deepakji, Please see under Ninth House And Afflicted Jupiter, 8 th para. anu

[astroboy]

by anuradha » Wed Feb 09, 2011 4:18 pm

Deepakji, On page 63, I could-not find. If you are talking about the chart of Mr J.L Nehru because it is aspected by the malefic Mars it is a Chandal yoga otherwise it gives a good promise of spiritual life, page 50, Tried Techniques Of Predictions And Some Memoirs Of An Astrologer, By Sh K.N Rao Ji. Regards anu

Anuradha Ji , just a clarification . Are you telling me that a chandala Yoga if formed only when a Malefic aspects Guru + Ketu / Rahu ??? I was under the impression that the mere association of the two was enough to create the Yoga . correct me if I have gone wrong some where .

Best regard's

[astroboy]

by anuradha » Wed Feb 09, 2011 4:42 pm

Deepakji, Please see under Ninth House And Afflicted Jupiter, 8 th para. anu

Book and page number, madam ?? please , if you dont mind .

[anuradha]

Deepakji, Aspect of Venus , Mercury or Moon helps to avoid the results of Guru Chandal yoga, moreover if Jupiter is with Ketu , it gives a spiritual promise , if not afflicted by any malefic. Regards anu

[anuradha]

Same page same book under guruchandal yoga. anu

[astroboy]

, Its page 53 under the chapter " Guru Chandala Yoga "and it says , I quote , " It is a good promise of spiritual life , if it is not afflicted by a malefic . " . Please note the word Promise . The promise can be kept only , and only if , all other factors support this combination . It is but logical to understand that all other factors of assessment of a horoscope have to be done by reading the horoscope from a Panoromic , or a elongated point of View .

[astroboy]

by anuradha » Wed Feb 09, 2011 4:49 pm

Deepakji, Aspect of Venus , Mercury or Moon helps to avoid the results of Guru Chandal yoga, moreover if Jupiter is with Ketu , it gives a spiritual promise , if not afflicted by any malefic. Regards anu

Right . I shall apply this to some horoscopes and see if this is true . I shall share notes with you at a later date .

Best regards
deepak .

[Basab]

Zarna,

God and destiny are not the same. Destiny is the result of the karmas we have done in our previous lives, and God is the supreme being, who sees to it that every person gets the result of the karmas he has done.

Can I ask you one thing,will you relate God & destiny or they are separate for you?

[Zarna]

[/quote]

Wow, a brilliant creative work!!!...But still I did not understand it properly due to some confusions. Anyway, Let me try to simply this mathematical concept-



(zero knowledge of spirituality) 00000.00000 ( A wordly successful person but no happiness)

(he turns to spirituality and search for knowledge) 00001.10000 (he turns spirituality and search for knowledge )

(He finds Guru or a book and tries to understand God) 00011.11000 (He becomes detached from worldly affairs except from his family)

(He begins to understand spirituality) 00111.11100 ( He begins to do japa, meditation, listen to devotional songs and involve his entire family)

(His happiness grows as a result of enlightened mind) 01111.11110 (now he begins his worldly life but with a detached attitude by doing karma yoga)

(Happiness and Blessed Mind) 11111.11111 (Happiness and Blessed Mind)[/quote]

Thanks you Aseem.You have seen half full part of the glass & I was concentrating on empty part in that(for you being spiritual is 11111.11111 & form me it's 00000.00000)!!Your explanation is really good one & makes sense.Each 1's at right side represents for eg desire for career,love,money,power......etc(bugs of outside world) & that is needed to remove & simultaneously praying god by any means suited to your nature(jap,tap,nam,dhyan,smaran...etc).While each 1 at left side represents ego,hatred,enviousness,...etc(Bugs inside man's mind).&these bugs to be removed once(toughest task to be that much pure) & at last when you attain 00000.00000 you became shunya so hve only to do devotional activity either a state where you do all things keeping in mind tht you are doing God's work.(without achieving this purity,in a one or another way you are going to bind karma)& at last you have ever happy,blessed & peaceful soul.Not easy the way i have said,rather needs a lots of suffering/pain & hve to pass lots of exam & for what u hve to be very pure & highly devotional too... jst like a gold stone becomes gold which shines.Jst produced my view...I know seems more idealistic,but I think it has no shortcuts!!
Thanks Again,
Regards,
Zarna

[Zarna]

Zarna,

God and destiny are not the same. Destiny is the result of the karmas we have done in our previous lives, and God is the supreme being, who sees to it that every person gets the result of the karmas he has done.

Can I ask you one thing,will you relate God & destiny or they are separate for you?

Okey BasabJi.Actually I should ask you whether you believe that Destiny is produced by God?Anyways I got your view.
Regards,
Jay shree krishna,
Zarna

[Basab]

Zarna,

God has nothing to do with our destiny. We create our destiny by the karmas we have done in our previous lives. We are fools that we blame God for our suffering when God has nothing to do with it--we are paying the price for bad karmas done in previous lives. We enjoy the sweet fruits of good karma and suffer the sour fruits of bad karma--we call the result of the karmas our destiny.

Okey BasabJi.Actually I should ask you whether you believe that Destiny is produced by God?Anyways I got your view.

[astroboy]

by Basab » Wed Feb 09, 2011 6:14 pm
Zarna,
God has nothing to do with our destiny. We create our destiny by the karmas we have done in our previous lives. We are fools that we blame God for our suffering when God has nothing to do with it--we are paying the price for bad karmas done in previous lives. We enjoy the sweet fruits of good karma and suffer the sour fruits of bad karma--we call the result of the karmas our destiny.

Good day Basab ji .

You say God has nothing to do with our destiny . So that would mean that it is "we" who have everything to do with our destiny . Am I correct ? You say that we create our destiny by the karmas we have done in our previous life . That would mean that we had a component of "Free will" in our previous life . Am I right ?? . You say that we pay the price for our bad karmas and we can also enjoy the sweet fruits of our previous good karma . So that would mean that we had the "Free Will " to choose between good and bad karmas . If there was a past life , and a Present life , Then there must be another life to live in the future . Correct ? Then how does "destiny become pre destined" ??


Please help me understand the concept better .

Best regard's

[Zarna]

Thankyou zarnaji...I got your point now... Yes, we should have zero negative balance to pursue God with a devoted mind. You are absolutely right.

I admire your sense of knowledge and creativity. Kindly write in paragraphs for easy understanding.

Looking forward to more knowledgeable posts from you.

Thanks

aseem

ARey..Aseem Ji,I should be thankful to you for admiring my point of view.I wrote a paragraph there for understanding but I think tht was confusing or I forgot to make it bold.My apologies for that mess of words.
THanks & regards,
Jay shree krishna,
zarna

[Zarna]

Zarna,

God has nothing to do with our destiny. We create our destiny by the karmas we have done in our previous lives. We are fools that we blame God for our suffering when God has nothing to do with it--we are paying the price for bad karmas done in previous lives. We enjoy the sweet fruits of good karma and suffer the sour fruits of bad karma--we call the result of the karmas our destiny.

Okey BasabJi.Actually I should ask you whether you believe that Destiny is produced by God?Anyways I got your view.

Good day to you Basabji,
Okey as Shree Krishna says,For every karma fruit is generated but when it will going to reap,nobody knows bt God may?Yes you are right,normally we all used to take bad fruit as destiny & blame God for that perhaps coz at the time of good fruits we are busy taking it's Rasa,taste & for the sake of our Indriya's Ananda as a human being.Astroboyji did my lilttle job.I was about to ask whether u believe in free will?Basabji asking this I am not trying to change/challange your belief but jst trying to understand.Please dont take me wrong for that.
Thanks & regards,
Jay shree krishna,
Zarna

[nidi83]

Dear Basab

I read your post on destiny and karma. I am not sure if I agree with you or not. I am confused Basab. There is one thing I would like to state Basab. What goes around definitely comes around. You try and hurt someone knowingly or unknowingly fully aware of the fact that the same is going to hurt someone, then I think one should be ready to accept the fruits of that karma. This birth and the next. I am in a very strange mood today. Contemplating over my past and the people I have hurt knowingly. I know I wil have to accept the consequences that will follow. Don't know if this post makes any sense, just felt like un burdening myself a bit. Please bear with me.

Thanking you,
Nidi

[Basab]

Deepakji, Zarna and Nidi,

I wrote the following sometime back in this discussion board in my confusion about whether destiny is predestined or not:

Now, coming to the confusion about destiny, I am sure about this that destiny is to a great extent predestined: the proof of that is the astrological predictions coming correct, and nadi astrology giving stunning accuracy in predictions. My grandmother was told as per Brighu astrology that she would die at the age of 58, and she died exactly at that age! Some of the other predictions made there and details written there can make anyone stunned as to how so much can be told about a person from a chart. And so, there is no doubt that most of our life is predestined. I won't be surprised if I call 90% of life predestined. Now what about the rest 10%? Is it predestined too? Let me discuss my confusions here:

We hear about 4 kinds of karma, and agama karma and kriyamana karma are said to be about free will. So is that free will predestined? By free will here I am not talking about efforts generally as most of the efforts are predestined, I feel. What I mean is, can the efforts change the intensity of the bad karma or the good karma to some extent? Maybe if a person does good karma, he can get better result in a planetary period than he was supposed to get or can get less worse result than he was supposed to get in a bad planetary period. I have read K.N. Rao talk about it, and so I give value to this. It is said that some karmas are dridha (rigid) and some are adridha (flexible), so maybe with efforts, maybe with remedies, maybe with praying to God the flexible karma can be changed to some extent.

Now, I have seen in my life that those who people who have hurt me have, after a few years, got hurt in return the exact way. How does it get explained? Did they do bad karma in this life and get the result of that in this life only or was both the doing of bad karma and gettingthe result of that both predestined? I am not sure of that again, but I feel, it is more to do with the karma done in this life and the effect felt in this life only in cases like this. I have seen that K.N. Rao does mention about it too--about how result of karmas show their effect in this life only.

Then comes the matter of God helping me. I have seen God helping me come out of a bad mood a lot of times, and in those moments I have wondered, is it predestined too? Is God's help also predestined! It makes sense sometimes; because otherwise, how can it be that God is fair to me and unfair to others as most people say? But then, when I think deeper, I feel that most people don't give importance to this help of God as to them help from God means, getting their desires fulfilled, and for me help from God means, His giving me just a moment of happiness when I am completely down, even though it doesn't change my fate in any way. Otherwise, I say, God has helped me a thousand times, but any one may ask me that what have I gained so far in life, except failures? So I feel that maybe this help from God is not predestined as it doesn't affect my life in any big way.

Now, coming back to efforts and that being done by us, well, I beg to differ on that. It's because I have many times thought of leaving this discussion board since the last few months--Dev and Aseem knows about it--but somehow I end up coming here and writing here. So when the effort I am putting in writing here, is it my own choice, or is it predestined? I don't feel like writing here, but I am writing, then, isn't it predestined effort? Now, I everytime think that this is the last book on spirituality that I will read, and I break my promise everytime by reading another book on the subject, and this has been going on for quite some months now. How does one explain it? Is it my choice or predestined?

Then, what about our deep desires getting fulfilled? I have seen in my own life that some of my most heart felt desires have come true. How did it happen? Was both my desiring it deeply and it's getting fulfilled both predestined? I wonder because I remember what I have read in two books on spirituality that what you desire you get, if not in this life surely in some future life--that if you desire something truly, then nature makes sure your wish gets fulfilled, which is against the concept of predestined destiny.

Again, talking about telepathy, is it predestined too? Does our thinking about a person and their responding to us, both predestined? I am not sure about this again.

I have also read about saints taking the bad karmas of his devotees on themselves, suffering it for their devotees sake and also have read about them shifting the bad karmas of their devotees from the present life to the next life. That way destiny can be changed in this life, of course if the saint's helping the person was not predestined too, which again I am not sure about. When I think of it, I wonder, if realized saints can use the loopholes of the law of karma to save their devotees and disciples, can't God do the same? He can of course is what I believe. Now again, I have read K.N. Rao talk about this, and I believe in him because he is a man of great learning.

So this is why I am confused about whether destiny is fully predestined or to some extent can be changed by free will (efforts, remedies) and God's grace.

[Dev]

Hi Basab:

God's way of acting is extremely complex, more so than quantum mechanics.
A heavy sinner in this janma goes unpunished for a long time and a light sinner gets instant punishment.
For eg if I put them in terms of numbers, the former has negative karma of 100000 points and the latter negative karma of just 100 points. Sometimes, the latter is being punished for his sins which is 100, and the former almost goes without punishment. That can only mean that the latter is closer to God and is exhausting his prarabhda and can reach God or may be closer to that. In the case of the former, it may be that he does crimes after crimes and has not realised. So he would be reborn as a still dirty individual who may have to undergo all sufferings in the next or coming births and the stage of realisation would come for sure sometime in future janmas for him.
About hurting someone by words, these are minor and as u said, when we are hurt by someone, we see him or her getting hurt on a latter date. These are all small accounts which are probably settled in this janma itself. But it is the bigger crimes for which punishment could get postponed to next janma.

Dev

[lovacrs]

Deepak ji,

There is also a school of thought that Ketu if stronger than Kuja owns Sc. Do you subscribe to it?
If so, then the Ju-Ke combo becomes very strong. How do you then interpret it?

[astroboy]

Basab ji , I feel astrological predictions come true , because people are largly fatalistic . They refuse to fight against the odds and rise up . It all depends on the nature of prediction and the age of the queriest . . That is why Indian astrologers have a high strike rate . people just succumb to planetary pressure . We are so frack scared of God that we think that to fight against fate is a crime .

[astroboy]

Namaskara Lovacars ji,


I belong to the Svoboda School of thought . He holds that Ketu's own house is Aries . P.V.N.R. claims other wise . Its a bloody mess . Look for example this Guru Chandala Yoga . K.N.Rao Ji says , that if Ketu is with Guru , the combination will promise spirituality . But its also a Guru Chandala Yoga if they are aspected by a Malefic . I say that the if Ketu and Guru are together , even without the aspect of Kuja and Shani, there is a strong Guru Chandala Yoga any ways . Why ? Because I hold that Rahu and Ketu aspect each other Via a 7th aspect . K.N.Rao Ji does not attribute aspects to Rahu and Ketu . I hold that Rahu aspecting Ketu and Guru is a chandala yoga any ways . So there are diverse schools of thought . We have to weigh each horoscope and decide which principle to use . Its all a bloody mess sir .


Best regard's
Deepak .

[Zarna]

Astroboy Ji,Well said....
It's what I am doing since long....Bravely running,when get sick take rest & try again & if God doesnt like my efforts,I cry for a moment,clean my eyes,get water & say God "Try me again,I am ready":) & also ask for strength from him!! Each time I fall down,I learned new lesson.Whether it's about physical efforts or mental or emotional or spiritual.
Thanks & regards,
Jay shree krishna,
Zarna

[Dev]

Hi Zarna:
It's what I am doing since long....Bravely running,when get sick take rest & try again & if God doesnt like my efforts,I cry for a moment,clean my eyes,get water & say God "Try me again,I am ready":) & also ask for strength from him!! Each time I fall down,I learned new lesson.Whether it's about physical efforts or mental or emotional or spiritual.

That is interesting. That means to say, u accept destiny totally and are unaffected by any happening and accept it willingly. Of course one cannot escape whether he accepts or not. When he accepts, he bears the sufferings, when he does not, he asks for relief from God, fights with God, scolds him, does pariaharas and so on.

Anyway I feel the following very simple equation holds
our destiny results = K x our karma
K is a constant for a particular type of sin but varies with the nature of sin and with the timing of the punishment. It accumulates interest with time, just like money but the rate of interest, God knows. So if it is finished in the same janma, better because that particular karma gets burnt and does not have interest to be carried over to the next to make it more miserable. So the faster one gets punished for his sins, the lesser is the K value and lesser is the punishment. Of course we do not know about previous birth sins and if we suffer more, it is because of the interest. So it would be better if we know conciously of sins in this janma that we get punished now here itself without delay. Of course sometimes it may not be bearable but to the extent one can bear, it would be nice if the punishment is given.

Dev

[Basab]

Deepakji,

Maybe you are right. I am not sure, what is right and what is wrong. I am not God! I can just share my thoughts, but I can't say anything definitely. Maybe what you said is correct, maybe what I said is correct. The Almighty knows the real Truth--we can only keep guessing.

Coming to being fatalistic, yes, I am very much that. When things don't go my way, I surrender to destiny! I don't have the strength to fight with it. I am not God fearing at all, though, and I don't think fighting against destiny is a crime! I just don't find enough strength in me to keep fighting against it, though I try a few times always before giving up.

Basab ji , I feel astrological predictions come true , because people are largly fatalistic . They refuse to fight against the odds and rise up . It all depends on the nature of prediction and the age of the queriest . . That is why Indian astrologers have a high strike rate . people just succumb to planetary pressure . We are so frack scared of God that we think that to fight against fate is a crime .

[Basab]

Dev,

Nice explanation about the law of karma. Maybe it is like that. I don't know.