Views on Parivartana Yog

[Shashi]

YES !!! Exchange of 3rd and 11th cpuld mean younger also. Also check if one of these houses is lorded by or occupied by mercury and this will make things clearer ...

[anxious2711]

Hey,

Actually Mercury is by itself in the second house with Mars and Venus in 3rd and Saturn and Moon in 11th.

Thanks

[Shashi]

It could also mean that you and your younger bro would be working together

[anxious2711]

Dear Sir,

That was exactly my question, this isn't my chart but someone else's, and he only has two younger sisters, no younger brother. So it means younger men?

[Shashi]

Venus denotes sister !

[soni]

,

[anxious2711]

Shashi ji,

What about between L11 and L12? One means gains, the other losses. I have also read that L11 in 12th means gains from foreign lands.

Thanks

[Shashi]

YEs, it could mean spending to get more gains or money from abroad !

[anxious2711]

Dear Shashi ji,

This is for L11 being in 12th but what about L12 being in 11th? I have read that this parivartana makes L12 stronger and L11 weaker as L12 is a functional malefic, is that so?

[Shashi]

No, infact it could convert losses into gains in the long term. To be frank, 12th lord in 11th is a v good position but 11th lord in 12th is the source of troubles ....

[anxious2711]

Dear Shashi ji,

I don't mean to doubt what you said about the 12th being in 11th being a very good position, but I also read on Barabara Pijan's site the following:

"Parashara says: If the 12th lord occupies the 11th house,

-the native will incur losses,

-will be brought up by others,

-and will sometimes gain through others. [143]"

I am just perplexed as I am getting so many different interpretations from each person.

Thanks,

[Shashi]

12th lord in 11th mens "loss to loss"

[msrhprasad]

.....

[anxious2711]

Dear Shashi ji,

Thank you very much for your explanations.

Regards,

[Shashi]

U R RIGHT sunil !!! Take it as 12th (loss of significations) from 12th (of 12th house) ... Any planets in 11th add good to the chart as native will benefit (gain ) from those sources. So, its not "malefics are good in 11th" .. infact "even malefics are good in 11th because even those planets, as the native advances in age, will start giving good results related to the house they own" ...

Now lets discuss your query ... "If no gains are promised by the chart" .. Here I can only say that there is an 11th house in evevry chart which means there is GAIN in every chart. But, if its lord is afflicted or weak, the percentage gains or degree of gain is very less. Now, similarly there is "loss" in every chart also due to presence of 12th house in every chart. So, if 12th house lord is stronger or under malefic influences (with saturn it will delay loss but will not deny, with rahu will give financial issues etc ... ) loss is more. than gain and so native cannot perceive gain.

[Shashi]

Dear Anxious,
I am not that proficient an astro as to be able to comment on Barbara's knowledge and Parashara's statements but lets take this as a concept and discuss... and then you are free to draw inference from these theories. Also, relevant case studies will make things clear (with inputs from fellow members if they have this kind of placement of 12th lord in 11th)....

Take an example... If 4th lord is in 3rd house, it is actually "4th lord in 12th house from 3rd house" and we interpret it as "loss of signification of 4th house". Native either loses his mother at very early age or does not get her love for weird reasons ... Similar is the concept of 12th house from 12th (loss of loss). In my observation, such natives even gain from matters where they thought they were losing. E.g. IF such a native has to lose a foreign job and he comes to India, joins another one here... he initially is depressed that he had to lose his job but later he realizes that the Indian offer is too good and he is able to develop more mentally and he is able to save more financially. So, it TURNS OUT TO BE POSITIVE in the end always for him. His losses always get converted to gains (which also means that initially there IS A LOSS but when he faces a loss, he has a gain awaited). Take another example .. Now also imagine ... you are paying Rs 25,000 as house loan installment but that is not a loss, the property is meanwhile increasing in value and after 10 years when you have paid the loan off, you are able to sell it in 15 times its cost or more ....

Now I have given you theory and examples. Try actual case studies and judge if any of these falls in place practically .... Members with 12th lord in 11th are requested to give their experience with this placement so that we can draw conclusions ...

[anxious2711]

Thank you Sunil ji and Shashi ji,

Things are a lot clearer for me now, I have L12 in 11th, and L11 in 12th.
I have Guru, Sun, Budh and Shukra in 11th Scorpio and Mangal and Ketu in 12th Dhanu (Makara lagna).

Once again thank you,

[astro123]

Dear Shashi
Thanks for explaining loss to loss so beautifully with clear example. I was thinking anyway that 12th lord is considered malefic for any lagna and its placement in 11th should be good besides being in 12th to iteself. What do you think if th 12th lord is Saturn placed in 11 house in Sagittarius when Saturn is also a lagna lord at the same time?

Sunil

IMO Saturn as LL will be a func benefic despite ownership of the 12th ...This is the case for Aquarius asc...One has to consider Saturns placement and aspects or afflictions to Saturn if any in the chart

thx

[astro123]

Dear astro123
Thanks for the reply. Saturn is placed in 11th house Saggitarius along with Jupiter. Jupiter is considered malefic for Aquarius lagna being the lord of 2nd and 11th. 11th house is aspected by Mars in 4th house, again malefic being the owner of 3rd house. You think in this case 11th house is afflicted?
Regards
Sunil

Jupiter as 11th lord is in own house ...no planet will harm his own sign so 11th lord in 11h is a good placement ..Saturn in 11th is an average placement as he is in an unfriendly sign...how far is saturn from jupiter...if there is a planetary war then there could be affliction...Mars and jupiter are friends so aspect of mars on jupiter can be considered good...also check the SAV of 11th house ...but it looks like from what u have written above there is no affliction to the 11th house

thx

[nirmala]

Dear astrologers and gurus,
I would like to know whether parivartan yoga holds true only for the primary birthchart?
Is it valid for navamsa also?

In my navamsa, I have 7th lord(moon) in Libra and 10th lord(venus) in cancer. I have Rahu with moon in the 10th, Is this a valid parivartan yog?

My birth particulars are :

20.7.1983
4:16pm
delhi

Regards,
Nirmala

[astro123]

Dear astro123
Jupiter is at 00:45 and Saturn is at 18:38 degree but it is retrograde. 11th house has 28 SUV point. I am sure about planetary war as I have no idea about its validity in case one planet out of the two is retrograde at the same time. What do you thinks?
regards
sunil

So it looks like jup and Sat are far away from each other and that makes both un-afflicted which is good...Jupiter though seems to be slightly weak by degree ..

[shilpa]

Hi Astro 123:

I have in navamsa 6-8 exchange between mars and saturn and in dasamsa 6-8 exchange between venus and jupiter. It is called Viparita raja yoga but when the yoga operates is not clear. May be even when the other dasas operate when they are connected with these planets by dristi, conjunction or being in their nakshatra and so on. Anyway in what way they would bring raja yoga is not clear at all. Whether it would be with profession, money, marriage or whatever.

Dev

Dear Astro and Dev,

This is an area I have been looking at closely of late...hence I visted this thread and found exatly the situation you describe;

In my understanding this situation forms 3 Yogas:
1) VRY1 when 6th lord is in 8th
2) VRY2 when 8th Lord is in 6th
3) and a Parivartana Yoga i.e exchage of Lords of 6th and 8th is a 3rd Yoga. It is a RajYoga if the Dustahn or good houses Lords excahnge houses.
but like all RajYogs the strentgh of the participating planets in the Das Varga charts is important.

Look at Indra Gandhi's chart( Nov 19, 1917, Allahbad, 11:11pm) ....she had 3 Parivartana Yogas...exchange of 6-12 ( Mo, Sa), 1-4 ( Sun, Ma) and 5-10 ( Ju-Ve).
and Ma-Sa were quite strong in her Das-Varga charts..
I am sure if we see chronology of her life.....her Sa and Ma periods would be see to be good.
Actually most of her "rule" was during the Sa Mahadasa.
Also you will see defining charecteristics of her persoanlity and "rule" also very Martian and Saturnian.

Regards

[sumit_2007]

Hi,
I have parivartan yoga in my Rasi Chart tula lagna Jup(R) in Lagna and venus in 6th house so it's a 1-6 parivartan and in my dasamsa(D-10) aries lagna Mar in 4th house and Moon in 8th house so 4-8 parivartan and apart from that Jup in 10th and Sat in 9th so 9-10 parivartan. But I don't know how they will impact my destiny. Please shed some light on it.


Regards
Sumit Nag

[Hina]

ak123,

are you facing any problems that you are wearing these rings? From what you have described, planet placements in your chart seems good. Mer. deb gets neechbhanga as with exalted venus.

Thanks!

[harih]

Dear All,

If, in a Parivartana yoga, both houses are strengthened, then why in a Dainya Parivartana yoga, (For example, between 2nd and 8th houses) it is said that one of the houses/house lords is totally damaged?

I have one such combination, with Moon in the 2nd owned by Saturn and Saturn in 8th owned by Moon. Texts say that this means, Saturn is damaged and Saturn dasha, Antardasha would give tough life lessons. However this does not seem to align with the premise that both house lords (in this case Moon and Saturn) would not like to cause harm while living in the other's house, and thus are forced to support each other, leading to both houses strengthened. Guess I am missing something here...