I want to break Free

[chaks]

Thanks Kunal, I never went anywhere

Arya,I can't sit still for two minutes, I promise . As I told kunal, I never went anywhere

[Nitin21]

Dear Astrosonuji
tejasvinau adhitam astu, maa vidvishavahai

Beautifully written especially when you spoke about offering everything to the lord. I also beg my speech, like Sadashiva Brahmendra "bruhi mukunda iti"
however i have a few questions.
It was stated about anti-vedic(anti vishnu) acts as sins that reap sins. I wonder in that case about Kamsa, who committed so many sins and like Ravan he got to be killed by the lord himself!
with reference about providing prana to the annamaya kosha, i don't think we do that,Shri Krishna himself says in Bhagavad Gita Chapter 15 "Aham Vaishvanaro bhutva praninaam deham ashritah, prana apana samayuktah pachamyannam chaturvidham.
"I become the digective fire (vaishvanara) and using prana and apana digest food."
I agree with the fact that moksha is not far, in fact i think we already are "That"

om
suniti

Dear Sunitiji,

After one reaches aparoksha gyana state, only prarabdha remains. Jaya and Vijaya the two dwarpals of the Vaikuntha were aparoksha gyanis. For them there was not even earthly prarabdha left. Their prarabdha was generated due to the curse. For hari sankalpa they had to undergo these incarnations. Whether they commit sins or punya after aparoksha gyana state, it all burns away. Specially in this case, as it was Hari sankalpa. So, there case cannot be taken as in comparison with humans aspiring for Moksha. Their purpose was to assist Shri Vishnu in spreading Vedic dharma in different yugas.

Secondly, it is essential to understand what constitutes the Prana. And amongst Pranas who is the highest. The highest is Mukhya Prana that enables us to breathe and live. This Mukhya Prana is next to Shri Vishnu and Mata Laxmi. Its various forms are Hanumanji , Bheemsen and Madhavacharyaji. Whereever there is Mukhya Prana there is Hari and whereever there is Hari there is Mukhya Prana. This can be seen from Ramayana and Mahabharata. The live example is what we breathe is subconcious Hari japa by Mukhya Prana. When Hari leaves, the Prana also leaves. Now the big question is where does this prana reside in Kaliyuga ? It resides in Annamaya Kosha. So, only vegetation is acceptable as naivedya to the Lord in Kaliyuga, as against Shri Rama's times when people also used to consume meat. Offerings of animals were made in the sacrifices. So, when we consume food and offer it as naivedya, Prana sustains itself to live another time. What does Prana do ? It does not consume itself but offer it to Shri Hari as per your Shlokas above. Would'nt it be selfish of Prana to consume itself when as a mortal body we are offering it to Shri Hari ? Hence your statements are true as you said, but the route is thus. Because Shri Hari does not stay where there is no Prana. And Prana does not stay where there is no Hari.

There is also another vision of achieving moksha, which is as various members have mentioned here as path to renunciation. There are objectives of such life which are achieved when one crosses grihasthashrama.

If you see every devata also has a consort. This is the concept of Vishnu-Laxmi, Shiva-Shakti being ever together and never seperated. For e.g. Mata Laxmi stays always in the heart of Shri Vishnu as a mole called Srivatsa. So, Male-Female soul pair is the reality of life, to accomplish objectives of earthly life and even moksha.

Sanyasa ashrama is also one way of leading to renunciation. But the objectives are higher for such a practice. It is not normal moksha as what we aspire. Higher Souls like Shri Hanuman do not aspire for Moksha. They aspire of Hari seva only and do Nishkaam Karma. They do not fall for Mohakara. Mohakara is nothing but karma done without contemplation of Dharma and Adharma by logic. Now where to find the definition of Dharma ? The only acceptable evidence is Scriptures. The vedic teachings and the smrutis and shrutis in accordance with Shastras. None else. So, when one abides by these teachings with full faith, one becomes eligible for Moksha. Moksha Sadhana starts and in this process, some continue with material life and still abide by dharma and some renounce the wordly pleasures and aim for enlightenment by the marga of yoga shakti and samadhi. These are dependent on higher mantras and practice of them requires being a dwija of the highest order. i.e. a brahmin. Only after this one can attain sanyasa.

Regards
Sonu

[Basab]

Hi Chaks:

Nice to see you back. A very happy new year to you. New year, new hair style for me. How do you like it?

[Dev]

Dear Sonu


Yes, everyone has some problem or the other. The intensity and nature differ.

You are doing well by following Vedic teachings now, having disrespected Vedic teachings in earlier births. Yes, I must have had a different prarabdha and my learnings will be different.
Yes, I am satvic, am brahmin by birth. I do the gayatri quite regularly (though in between sometime it was not) and then singing I do regularly but more as an art than spiritual.
Yes, I am devoted to Shri Vishnu.

I would say do not worry about anything else other than Shri Vishnu Bhakti. Let life take its own course. Everything will fall in place one day, once you get detached. If you keep getting attached towards results etc, your rinanubandha will make you suffer more in next life. Just do the act and forget about the result. If the result is negative, accept it whole heartedly as a fast track move of the Lord, to free you from your karmic debts. If it is positive, you need to be even more careful, as it may lead you to Rajsik nature. To be able to achieve transcendence, only Satva should prevail.

No, I am still expecting positive result, I cannot digest negative one. I will not become rajasic since I have realised somewhat after this suffering(This type of suffering is first time for me, I have had almost all types of suffering but never this).

I agree with your views and will just think of Lord Vishnu and try to be satvic which I am to a great extent, though unable to control myself sometimes. You seem to be higher up in the ladder than me in spirituality and so are many others in this forum. I must accept that. Even my astrology is better than my spirituality at present.
Anyway being satvic has been an inherent quality in me though rajasic shows up at times but its intensity is very high when it shows up, tamasic quite rarely.


Dev

[chaks]

Hi Chaks:

Nice to see you back. A very happy new year to you. New year, new hair style for me. How do you like it?

A very Happy New year to you Basab. Your new hairstyle, well it tempts me to go into hibernation agin

[Basab]

Hehehehehe... Don't worry, I will cut my hair short soon. Will use my free will this time for a change.

Your new hairstyle, well it tempts me to go into hibernation agin

[suniti]

Dear Astrosonuji

Thank you for your explanation
according to tattva bodha and other texts the prana is its own kosha, the praanamaya kosha.
In fact in the taittiriya upanishad Bhrigu meditates on each of the panchakosha and sees that they are Brahman,

"prano brahmeti vyajaanaat, praanadhyeva khalvimani bhutani jayante, pranena jatani jivanti, pranam pratanyabhisam vishantiti
tadvijnayaya punar eva varunum pitaram upasasara,

"Bhrigu understood prana is Brahman, because it is from prana alone that living beings are born, having been born from it they live by it, and in the end they become one with it, having known that he again approaches his father,

this is the third anuvaka so the second is annamaya kosha, the fourth anuvaka is manomaya kosha . . . .

I don't think there is ever a place where Shri Hari is not, as per Narayana suktam, "antar bahischa tat sarvam vyapya narayana stithah"
He is outside and inside of everything, all pervading. In that way while we offer to HIM, HE is ultimately the Offerer the Offered and the Reciever.

In many systems it is not required for one to be a dwija as sannyaas is beyond caste.

I think your explanations are interesting as most likely we are coming from different philosophical backrounds.

om
suniti

[kunalbhardwaj27]

Dear Astroboy and All,

I went to Shri Krishna Temple (Udupi).Please explain me why Shri Krishna turned his head for a non brahmin..When the Brahmin saw Kanakdasa he derogatingly relpied him to get out.Then he sat behind the temple and started reciting Lords name.And Shri Krishna turned for him...Astroboy please explain in a nice way the whole story.

Regards
Kunal

[Dev]

Castes were created by human beings based on the work they did initially and from then on, it continued and children of brahmins started being called brahmins though some deviated from what a brahmin is supposed to do.
God is beyond all this and for him every individual is the same.

In fact several realised souls in Vaishnavite alwars are from different castes, among the alwars we can see all castes. Are they all not being worshipped? So for a realised soul, caste will not matter, it is only for nonrealised souls who would go by caste only. I am a brahmin but have been cheated by brahmins too. So there are good people in brahmins, and also all other castes and religions and regions too.
Similarly in terms of knowledge, good are everywhere. The importance of caste is outdated now though people marry more or less from their own caste due to choice of food, dress etc which differs for diff castes.
Dev

[Nitin21]

Dear Suniti,

I follow Madhava Philosophy and dvaita siddhanta. Every deity we pray is antargata Mukhyaprana antargata Shri Vishnu.

I was not talking about Prana not having its seperate kosha. That is an entirely seperate topic altogether. What i mentioned was Prana being subservient to the almighty and being very dear to the Lord. The lord does not stay where Prana does not. That's how lord sustains the universe. And Shri Hari does not accept offerings in which Mukhya Prana is excluded. If one prays only Mahalaxmi, one gets all desired but also gets into vipreet Gyana. So, one must always pray Laxmidevi as present in Shri Vishnu. Similarly, when Shri Vishnu is prayed without worshipping Vayu avatara, the prayers are not acceptable and have warped results. So, one must always pray Shri Vishnu as present in Vayu or mukhyaprana. This is the whole philosophy of Shri Hanuman Episode where he tears his heart to Show Shri Rama and Sitadevi in his heart.

Secondly, If Sanyasa is taken up by any caste (rather varna), how will they practice the PRANAV which is obtained only by being a dwija OR atleast tapta mudra dharane ? Merely taking up Sanyasa is not sufficient to obtain moksha. Manas shuddhi is required. It comes via yagnovapeet or mudra dharaney. It has to be abided as per scriptural definitions. Lest, its nothing more than silent meditation. The kundalini does not move one bit. Even for chakra sadhana the very basic sarpa mantra is required. And those who do not have deeksha taken, cannot chant the same. If they cannot chant atleast the sarpa mantra for mooldhara, how do they attain samadhi for which the kundalini needs to move upwards till Sahasraara ? the fundamentals cannot be flawed under mohakara.

Can you please share if you are a male or a female ? As there are different sadhana for males and females, per sanidhi of lord in the soul.

Regards
Sonu

[Nitin21]

Dear Devji:

The underlying meaning in the caste is infact "VARNA" and not caste. If what you meant in the below passage is caste then yes it resulted due to intermingling of people post kaliyuga. Lord will bless everyone irrespective of caste creed provided one follows varnashrama and does not flout norms laid in shastras. Shastras are the guidelines.

If you are talking about Varna itself then it is not man made creation but that of the Lord himself at the time of creation.

Regards
sonu

Castes were created by human beings based on the work they did initially and from then on, it continued and children of brahmins started being called brahmins though some deviated from what a brahmin is supposed to do.
God is beyond all this and for him every individual is the same.

[Dev]

Dear Sonu:

Hope u also read the reply to ur post earlier to this.

I agree that one has to abide by the rules of Varnashrama dharma which started right from the beginning. So u feel, it was created by God. OK, I thought, when the people started doing one type of work, he was labelled as brahmin, or shatriya and so on. So these are the ones I meant, so they are Varnashrama and within them are the castes, is it not? So many castes were created later on by people for selfish purpose, I agree.
Anyway, Vedas do say the dharmas to be followed by brahmins, by shatriyas etc. but in kali yuga, we cannot truely follow everything, even going for a job is not allowed for brahmins. However, following other dharmas as chanting gayatri, doing trikala sandhya, doing pitrushraddam, ekadesi upavas, leading a pious or satvic life and trying to reduce greed for money and induging in too much pleasures-sensual or others, is goo enough I think if one can follow. Even that is difficult and one can only improve day by day.

Dev

[suniti]

Dear Astrosonuji

thank you for your reply
i have studied a little advaita vedanta and not very much but very little kashmir shaivism, there lies the duality in our philosophies
Sannyaas is beyond caste as one is no longer identifying with jati naam or rupa.
I agree it is not a prerequisite to moksha. However, neither is the sacred thread as i know many without it who have pure minds.
As for Pranava, the sanskrit etymology is "prakarshena nuyate stuyate sadbhih it pranava" That which is praised and extolled by those firmly established in truth is Pranava, so there is no caste restriction.
Even in taittiriya it is stated "Om iti Brahma Om iti sarvam"

Its so beautiful, all of these philosophies and all of these saints that have shown us the paths. I do feel it is true about spirituality that its called as a razors edge path. Much of our knowledge and conditionings can become the obstruction for finally seeing what IS, the truth.

As vivekchoodamani says. "shabdajalam maharanyam, chitta-bhramana-karanam"
this net of words is a huge forest that causes confusion in the mind

seeking blessings from all that i may one day see that truth

om
suniti

sarvesham shantir bhavatu

[Nitin21]

Dear Sunitiji,

Sannyaas is beyond caste as one is no longer identifying with jati naam or rupa.

This is a post Sanyasa assesment. What are the pre-requisites ?

I agree it is not a prerequisite to moksha. However, neither is the sacred thread as i know many without it who have pure minds.

Mind as of Annamaya Kosha and Manas of the Sukshma sharir are different. Yagnovapeet is for Sukshma Sharir Manas Shuddhi not the brain as we perceive. This shuchi is achieved only via samskaras. It is our Sukshma Sharir that connects to the astral plane, not the sthula sharir. So, without the sacred thread, manasa shuddhi is not possible. I know of brahmins who are very learned and also ready to do yagnovapeet at the age of 35+ . That does not mean it is right. Ages prescribed in scriptures are max 12-16 years. Anything beyond that has no effect on manasa suchi. Basically, one has to follow vedic principles in these cases. Mortal logic does not work.

As for Pranava, the sanskrit etymology is "prakarshena nuyate stuyate sadbhih it pranava" That which is praised and extolled by those firmly established in truth is Pranava, so there is no caste restriction.
Even in taittiriya it is stated "Om iti Brahma Om iti sarvam"

Pranava is AUM. AUM is not a one word but an eight Syllable word which encompasses the entire root of this creation. Manasa Shudhi (as per my explanation above is a must). This comes via Samskaras with which one is born (not acquired) and the ones which the human body sustains via yagnovapeeta. The truth as you have mentioned above is known only through Vedic learning. Only then one is firmly established in truth and hence in Pranava. How does a non-dwija learn the "firmly established truth" when he is not even eligible for samskaras ?? There is also new trend of astrologers using and suggesting OM and OM mantras left and right for all problems. One must remember without MANASA SHUCHI pranava must not be chanted. This is applicable to men and women both. For non-dwijas, stotras must be prescribed.

Its so beautiful, all of these philosophies and all of these saints that have shown us the paths. I do feel it is true about spirituality that its called as a razors edge path. Much of our knowledge and conditionings can become the obstruction for finally seeing what IS, the truth. As vivekchoodamani says. "shabdajalam maharanyam, chitta-bhramana-karanam" this net of words is a huge forset that causes confusion in the mind

The IS part has been twisted by late kaliyuga saints, which has definitely been a razor. Vedic teachings are not meant to be twisted to suit mental comforts. The truth is as it stands and written by authentic saints like Mahrishi Ved Vyasa, who were incarnations of the Lord and had great lineage to write the smrutis and shrutis for the entire MASS. And Shri Vyasa through various shrutis and smrutis establishes the fact clearly as to what leads to the lotus feet of the Lord. Any vedic teachings coming under the mortal perspectives are to be accepted only when backed up by Vedas. Advaita basically is a mix of defiance and acceptance of vedic teachings.

I do not use OM in my signature. I am not entitled to it.

Shri Krishna arpanamastu.

[Nitin21]

Just to add, Kashmir Shaivism I heard just today from you. I dont know if there is any such mention in authentic scriptures. I am certainly not the follower of it.

Regards
Sonu

[suniti]

Dear Astrosonuji
Thank you
I guess if kashmir shaivism isnt your thing you need not follow it.
and you are right in what you say as after all
na aham karta.
its nice hearing your views
suniti

[Nitin21]

Dear Sunitiji,

I never mentioned Kashmir Shaivism in the first place. There is no question of following it. Madhava Philosophy and Kashmir Shaivism are not even remotely connected. I am not sure how you interconnected the two. Maybe i did not express myself clearly .

Thank you for understanding and investing your valuable time to read my views.

Best Regards
Sonu

Dear Astrosonuji
Thank you
I guess if kashmir shaivism isnt your thing you need not follow it.
and you are right in what you say as after all
na aham karta.
its nice hearing your views
suniti

[viswada]

Good day Viswada,

I read of the Shiva yoga ( Ketu + Ravi ) recently on this forum when someone asked for a clarification on this. I have not come across this combination to date, so I will not be able to comment on it . As far as I know , the yoga I have quoted is the most authentic . .

GOOD DAY TOO U DEAR
I only started that tred on SHAKTI AND SHIVA YOGA.as i came to know through the papers of VISTI LARENS ,a student of PT.SANJAY RATH.here i attached one which describes the shiva yoga.welcoming your views on that.

I went through your horoscope . Interesting to say the least . .

i did not understand the above phrase,u mean the possibility is least and it is intresting or any other meaning?pl tell me

I feel that if you can strengthen Guru in your horoscope this yoga will kick in.

i am requesting you to tell how to strengthen the GURU?

I am convinced you can reach great heights in spirituality if you strengthen Guru .

.

pl apply the same above same question?how to.......

If you are unmarried and intend to go towards a spiritual life then Guru needs to be strengthened .
Trust this help's .

dear deepak
i was married ,but still wants to know the absolute truth.by the grace of LORD ARUNACHALA i already following the self enquiry method of BHAGAVAN RAMANA MAHARSHI.Times has to show the day whether i can reach that end or not?
and its Jyothishya part to reveal that GHATANA GHATEGI YA NAHEE GHATEGI?
BEST REGARDS....
THANKING YOU ALWAYS...

[astroboy]

Viswada ji,

Let me get back to you on the remedy . I am not sure if a gem stone would work for you .

Best regard's

[lovacrs]

... and i go with a disclaimer...!

Abhijit ji,

You have really started renouncing "Disclaiming" fruits of your actions is nothing but renunciation.

[Abhijit Muhurta !!!]

Dear CRS,

its easy to disclaim what's written in a thread .....but to apply that to every action in life is a tall task....
I take it you go by Purandaradasa....hope his Vittala makes it easy for all....

[Zarna]

First of all Namaskar & Jay shree krishna to all members as you dont know how this thread helped me!!!
Deepak ji,
Pls look at my chart once.Do I hve any chances in this birth to get Guru who can lead me for spiritual growth?I am thinking of all this only coz I hve recently gone through mental agony & so tht thought to hve inner most peace & happiness tht no one can destroy or it's in my destiny?I mean is this my thinking is for lil time period or do i hve such possibility to be in tht path?AS Astrosonu ji said,I do also hve brahman sapa in my kundli(one expert told me tht) for which even I cant do remedies & so I hve to suffer life time.I dont know whether this suffering lead me to this forum n thead or jyotish or my destiny?pls tell me something from my chart...
My detail is:18/3/1980,1:45 PM,Savarkundla(Amreli),Gujarat,India.

@AstrosonuJi:Sat sat naman to Hari bhakta like you...
After reading all in thread I come to the point tht for me,not possible to leave sansar now(I m single mother & gr8 responsibility of my son)bt even I am not having tht much faith tht I can be devotional like you...Wht i do is go to temple,do chanting names,kirtanas(though not with tht much Shradha bt yet doing tht God mite hve some plan for me also) & waiting for shree hari to give me faith or atleast bless me with a guru like urs.In between I also learnt to fulfill my all duties means following dharma as a human being in this earth.I dont know where it all lead me bas hari ka nam liye ja rahi hun..pata nahi hai kuchh bhi na he maine bahot sari kitabe padhi hain...bt I know God will do something for me some day.M I in a right path?Sonuji,you told tht females hve different path to follow..which r there?can you tell me if you know me as Yogya person to get tht knowledge from you.Pls I am eagerly waiting for answers from you.
Deepakji pls help me out.
Thanking you all again..
warm regards & Jay shree krishna..
Zarna

[Nitin21]

Dear Zarna,

Thank you for your kind words. However, I do not deserve that because I am not even 1% of what Shastras prescribe one to be.

Secondly, Why do you want to leave Samsara ? There is a reason why you came into it. . Follow the ordained Karma and you shall feel good. Accept the prarabdha and detach yourself from the results. It's difficult but with constant Hari smaran you can achieve that. Pray Shri Krishna to wash your known and unknown sins. What you are doing is good. Just keep increasing the devotion in the same routine with every growing moment by actions, speech and desire. That will take you to the winning line.

Regards
Sonu

[astroboy]

Good day to you Zarna ji,

Astro Sonu is indeed right with his assessment of your horoscope . Your guru is afflicted no doubt . I do not see any pure renunciation in your horoscope . I just suggest that you concentrate on bringing up your son to be a good citizen and a good human being . I think you have the good qualities in you , and the same can be passed on to your son. To bring up a child who will do good to society is akin to doing service to the God almighty . I feel your path lies there and you should focus on it .

No body stops you from following mundane spirituality . Going to a temple , Talking to the lord with all your heart, singing his praises is a good enough service to him in days like this . Stick to what you are doing now . I am sure You will get the peace you seek .


God bless you.
Best regard's

[sunsri]

astroboy, astrosonu,

interesting thread. many people born in 1973 have Shani + Moon + Ketu in Mithuna and Guru in Makara.
How do you rate their chances at renouncing the material world?

thanks
Sunsri