Sriman Narayana is the Supreme Brahman, the God of all Gods!

[suniti]

Dear Anupamji
nischal was just an example for that upasarga
but since it has sent you into samadhi i am happy for that
sounds like that verse in Isha
It moves and moves not; It is far and its near. It is inside all this and It is outside all this

pranaams
suniti

[Sudarshang]

Anupam-ji

You asked in bold, "Who has higher amount of Satwa in him/her, a person who is just worshiping Mahavishnu, doing all rituals, as are prescribed by Shastras but in real life he is nothing but a hypocrite or the person who is doing everything to make others happy, without any selfish motive even of Moksha, but has no bhakti towards Mahavishnu like Mother Teresa or Baba Amte."

Sir, what is your goal? what are you trying to understand? I am sorry, but I find your question is too complex.

[krishnagopal1968]

It seems to me a very simple question sudharshan sir.

I, Krishnagopal, worship Mahavishnu as per shastras, but in real life a hypocrite.

Mother teresa , doesnot worship Mahavishnu, but very good in real life .

Out of these two, who is having more satwa guna, as per you?

[Sudarshang]

Pray, please explain the following:

1. What is "pray as per shastras"
2. Who is a hypocrite?
3. "Being "very good in real life"
4. Why do you trying to know who out of the two has more satwa guna?

[krishnagopal1968]

Hmm. my explanation as follows.

1. What is "pray as per shastras" ------- To fill up one page in this thread.
2. Who is a hypocrite?---------------------- Me, who wants to fill up two pages in this thread.
3. "Being "very good in real life"---------- To fill up three pages......
4. Why do you trying to know who out of the two has more satwa guna? ---- To dodge satwa guna.

[Sudarshang]

Nice answer

[Sudarshang]

May be this picture will say more than what I can write!
(Note: I am unable to post the picture on this forum due to size restrictions...I tried, it wouldn't take). That is why I posted it on my Blog.

http://chips-salsa.[NO EXTERNAL LINKS PLEASE].com
Since I posted this on the leap day of the leap year, lets call him LEAP BHAGVAAN ?

[Narayan]

ha...ha......very nice, Sudharshangji carry on.

Narayanan

[Sudarshang]

good answer ...i will answer you later ...I need some time (busy schedule)...please excuse me for that...

[Dev]

Hi all:

I would like to give few personal comments of my own based on the discussions going on.
There are ways for salvation like bhakti yoga, karma yoga, gyana yoga and so on.

Mahavishnu is even more pleased with a person who is an atheist and does his duties regularly and honestly, helps the needy and so on than with a person who pretends to be his devotee. When he prays regularly to Mahavishnu but remains a hypocrite, then he is no good, that is because his prayers are only for his selfish goals. I have come across many people of the second type and so am writing this.


People like Terasa, Gandhi are all great souls who have worked for the mankind and are sure to attain moksha, I would say. It is not that they have not worshipped Mahavishnu, their honesty, willingness to help others and do service makes them a true bhagavata, a true devotee of Mahavishnu and so they would attain moksha.

However, there are definitely good people also around who also pray to God regularly and are also sativik, good at heart and helpful to others but are fewer in number.

I would say that all the temples especially the more famous ones for eg Tirupati, Srirangam etc are heavily crowded but then if u take those population of the people, are all of them good. Several among them come to offer prayers to God and live in their own way. They feel God is innocent and will be pleased by their prayers though they live in a dishonest, cunning and selfish way. Unfortunately they are mistaken since they assume God to be similar to our political leaders who can easily be pleased when u fall at their feet.

The bottomline is one has to live the way the Vedas and puranas say but he has to perform his duties towards others in a proper way and should be honest, sincere, unselfish, kind, compassionate and so on, and if he lacks these qualities, even if he is a staunch devotee of Mahavishnu, he will not get moksha.
This is because he is not a true bhagavata and he becomes a bogus bhakta whom God does not like. He would say he is God's true devotee but God would not accept him as his true devotee.

All those are true devotees of Mahavishnu who have all the virtues as above and not the ones who regularly visit his temple and offer prayers and have all vices like jealousy, ego, selfish and cunning nature and so on.
I say this because there are many in the later category. They will never reach moksha on their own unless God himself sympathises on them and brings about changes in them.

In the famous song Vaishnava janatyo tene kahiye,
the author says, a true vaishnavite is one who understands others pains and helps them and is compassionate.

Every individual gets respect when he lives the dharmic way as prescribed.

The brahmins, saints, scientists, doctors, teachers, gurus whoever they are, should live in the way as prescribed, otherwise, they dont get the respect that normally they would deserve.


Dev

[Sudarshang]

Dev-ji

Good behavior is rewarded by the law of karma with good karma - does not necessarily lead to Moksha. Good karma makes one take a more fortunate birth in next life, and/or spend more time in Swarga Loka. for Moksha both punya and papa karma need to become zero.

[Dev]

Dear Sudarshan:

I agree but in this kaliyuga, their selfless service seems so exceptional, also when they serve without any expectation, nishkamya karma they dont earn any punya from it , is it not? So I thought their balance is already zero.

Dev

[Sudarshang]

Dev-ji

good point, but we don't know whether balance is already zero ... Sanchita karma is timeless and to assume it can be zeroed by self-effort is ...and Nishkamya karma means not expecting material (physical, mental, spiritual) returns - punya still accrues (in my opinion).

And I would discount that "in this kaliyuga..." stuff. We are living in the 28th kaliyuga of this 8th manvantara - we have all lived 27 kaliyugas already in this manvantara. we have lived 71 kaliyugas in each of the 7 manvantaras before. So what has changed this kaliyuga? Only one thing - Veda Vyasa categorized and compartmentalized the vedas which were in an unified form earlier! Also, only about 5100 years have passed in this Kaliyuga; we still have about 415000 years to go in this kaliyuga...I have heard many people say that Kali is becoming ripe - if they would have said that 400000 years later, when only about 20,000 years of the kaliyuga is left, that is acceptable ....

[Sudarshang]

While nishkamya karma has its merits, it is practically difficult to follow. What is easier to follow is kamya karma towards Bhagvaan. That one I can say for sure does not earn punya because it is directed to the Lord. for example, my passion for building the temple for Vaikundanatha Perumal and the effort I am taking towards that goal - fund-raising, sponsoring and conducting events at the tempe etc is all directed towards Him.

Thiruvarangathamudanaar tells in iraamaanusa nootrandaadi,
"sema nal veedum porulum darumamum seeriya naRkkaamamum ennivai naangenbar
naanginum kaanukke aamadu kaamam, aRam poruL veedu idaRkken uraiththaan
vaaman seelan ..."

i.e Moksha, Artha, Dharma, and Kama are said to be four (purushaarthas)
of the four, Kama towards Kannan is appropriate, Dharma, Artha, and Moksha are meant to support this."

It is a completely different way of looking at the purusharthas. Desire in individual moksha could become the reason for nishkamya karma! Even that is obstacle on the path. Therefore Amuthanaar grabs the bull by its horns and recommends Kama towards the Lord as the path - where by even Moksha is nothing but an achievement to practice kama towards the Lord!

Forget the path of non-attachment, non-duality everything - all may be "Dharma" I am not disputing, but unconditional love and bhakti towards the Lord is what we are going to be doing even after Moksha in His abode of Sri Vaikuntha - and therefore that is the parama praapyam.

Illustrative Story from the life of Anandaazhwaan:

Anandaazhwaan was Swami Raamaanuja's disciple that developed "Tirumala". In Swami's days Tirupati-Tirumala was a dense forest and the temple was practically inaccessible! Swami chose Anandaazhwan to develop the place so as to make it easier for all devotees to gain access to the temple. Anandaazhwan was at work when a snake bit him. People helping him came running feeling scared for him. Anandaazhwan said, " in this body I am serving Him, when I go there I am going to serve Him, only the place is different, serving Him is still the same always - whether here or there, why do you worry?"

[Dev]

Dear Sudarshan:

I agree woth you that none of us know when the balance of papa and punya would become zero. It is so difficult. Nevertheless, I thought that people doing selfless service are nearer to going towards that path where the papa and punya become zero. Anyway I dont know that much of philosophy and spirituality and am just pointing out from what I feel.

I also agree that the kaliyuga is not still so ripe as though it is going to end soon. Still there is some dharma though adharma is on the increase day by day. There are many in this forum itself doing selfless service, be it astrology or philosophy.

I wish you all the best in your passion for building the temple for Vaikundanatha Perumal and the effort you are taking towards that goal - fund-raising, sponsoring and conducting events at the tempe etc. Hope I would come and sing there after it is complete.

Dev

[krishnagopal1968]

Dear Dev,

There are number of terms used in this thread, nishyama karma,jeevatma,moksha,narayana etc etc..

And you are sincere and indicated indirectly that you don't know what these terms mean actually.(that is what you mean, when you said i dont know that much philosophy and spirtualiity)

My suggestion is never mind these terms and only sure thing beyond doubt is 'you exist" ie, "I'

So let us find out "who is this 'I", It is not difficult at all, just like we think about other things, we can think about 'I' thought too.

As each thought arises, you can ask yourself: “To whom is this thought?” The answer will be, “to me”; then hold on to that “me”.

Any desire automatically disappears when we hold to 'I' thought. Stress, confusion, worries all disappear. This is my experience, please test this.

If you can't hold to 'I' thought, then instead of any mantra, just repeat the "I", "I". Test this also and share us the result.

If you ask me "I" is the first name of God not Sriman Narayana

[Dev]

Dear Krishnagopal,

It is not true, I do know the meaning of the terms - nishyama karma,jeevatma,moksha,narayana etc etc..
In fact I have been using nishkamya karma in several posts of mine. All these I do know, but what I meant is I have not been reading deep philosophy and so I do not know how to give relavant examples from Upanishads and Vedas.

Also what I do not know is how to guess how many years of kaliyuga is left over.

I cannot say I know when some of them are quoting so many sources like say Sudarshan, Astrosonu etc.
I am capable of grasping them easily whatever I read but the thing is I dont read and whatever I have here and there, I use them.

Anyway, see the ' I ' in me has not gone at all and how can I think beyond that when the I has not dissolved in me. I would rather accept that several of you probably are in a 'lesser I state' than me, so for me it would be a difficult excercise. First step is getting rid of I and I am concious that I have not got rid of it and that it is difficult. The only thing I can be proud of is that I accept I have not got rid of it.

Dev

[krishnagopal1968]

Dear Dev,

'see the ' I ' in me has not gone at all'

where do you want it to go?

And who is wanting it to go?? Is it not the same 'I'?

or is there two 'I's in us? if you accept that, then all the trouble starts. it is like creating a problem and wanting to solve it.

And you said "i am proud to say i have not got rid of it". Who is saying this dev? Is it not the same "I"?

If you dont allow any division in you, then you will find the problem is solved itself.

Also you said you know the meaning about karma, jeevatma etc,. You mean theoritically or actually?

[Dev]

Hi Krishna:

I the atma is the permanent one but I the body is not. Each one of us call our body as I and the importance needs to be given to the atma which is permanent.
Once we realise that, the ego or I dissolves

And you said "i am proud to say i have not got rid of it". Who is saying this dev? Is it not the same "I"?

It is the same I but the I with a reduced ego since it accepts its ignorance or inability to have the ego removed

If you dont allow any division in you, then you will find the problem is solved itself.

Also you said you know the meaning about karma, jeevatma etc,. You mean theoritically or actually?

I mean the meanings what do u mean by actually, I dont get u.

[Narayan]

Deleted

[krishnagopal1968]

Agreed Dev, let us leave it at that.

BTW, in your upcoming mars dasa (even from late 2013) you may have more leanings towards professional front and you may spend less time with this subject! (you can achieve a top position)

how is your singing going on? present venus pratyantara is very good for public appearances.

[Vaughn Paul]

Hi Everyone,
I don't see how this Topic on Sriman Narayana is related to astrology. Please bring the discussion back to astrology and not just banter about philosophical opinions. Thanks, Vaughn Paul

[Dev]

Dear Krishnagopal:

BTW, in your upcoming mars dasa (even from late 2013) you may have more leanings towards professional front and you may spend less time with this subject! (you can achieve a top position)

how is your singing going on? present venus pratyantara is very good for public appearances.

Thanks for what u have said, anyway I love my chemistry and music much more than other subjects and then come of course astrology and spirituality. The latter two, I have learnt quite a lot from the forum from many including people like u.

In fact even in the ketu antardasha I have done quite a lot of singing in the temples where they gave me the mike and asked me to sing. I may not be a karma yogi but I love chemistry and music more than anything else

Dev