Sri:
Srimathe Raamaanujaaya Namaha
Srimath Varavara Munaye Namaha
Srimathe Sri Venkata Raamaanuja Munaye Namaha
Reposting from a friend's article:
Pramāṇa or means of knowledge
The pramātā, knower or a person desirous of knowledge, has to get knowledge of things to be known, prameya, only through the means of knowledge called pramāṇa. The existence of knowable objects is determined by the means of knowledge, called pramāṇa.
According to Cāruvākas, a school of atheists, the only means of knowledge is pratyakṣa or sensory perception. The Vaiśeṣikas and the Buddhists recognize anumāna or inference also. The Sāṅkhyas recognize, in addition, a third namely āgama. A sect of Naiyāyikas follow the Sāṅkhyas. But another sect, namely followers of Udayana, add upamāna or anology as the fourth. The Prabhākaras recognize arthāpatti as the fifth pramāṇa. (Devadatta who is stout and healthy does not eat during day. Therefore he eats during nights. This conclusion is arrived at by arthāpatti). The Bhāṭṭas and Māyāvadins add abhāva as the sixth means of knowledge. They say that the particular sense-organ which cognizes the presence of a particular object, also recognizes its absence. The Paurāṇikas recognize two more, namely, sambhava and aitihya, and say that there are eight means of knowledge.
The Vedānta school recognizes only three of the above means of knowledge, namely, pratyakṣa or perception, anumāna or inference and āgama or Śtruti or Smṛuti, etc., and include the other five in one or other of the three means of knowledge. They include upamāna, arthāpatti, and sambhava in inference, abhāva in perception, and aitihya in āgama. By āgamas are meant Śrutis or Vedas, Smṛutis, Itihāsas, Purāṇas, Brahmasūtras, Pāncarātras and the saying of Tamil Āḷvārs and saints.
Of these three means of knowledge, namely, perception, inference and āgama, perception is authoritative only regarding things knowable by the senses; inference is authoritative regarding some unseen objects whose necessary concomitance, or vyāpti with the known object, is ascertained by sensory perception, as in the case of fire and smoke. But, in the case of things beyond the reach of the senses, āgamas or śāstras are the only authority.
The word Śāstra, is derived from the root Śās (anuśiṣṭau) to teach, to inform, to govern, to correct, to advise. Śāstra is that which teaches pravṛitti or action and nivṛutti or inaction. Of all the Śāstras, Śruti or Veda is the foremost authority as it is self-authoritative, and does not depend upon any other thing for its being authoritative, unlike Smŗti, Ithihāsa, Purāņa etc., which depend upon Śrutis for their authority. The Śruti or Veda, unlike other śāstras, is not made by man or by any other being and therefore, it is eternal. That Śruti is eternal, is proclaimed in the Śruti itself. The Vedas are not made by any being as they are eternal. The Vedas are free from any of the four defects – illusion, cheating, inadvertence and disability, to which man-made works are liable. No śāstra is therefore, higher than the Śruti.
Veda Vyāsa says: “No śāstra is superior to Veda”. “This is called Veda because it teaches”. The former part or karma-kānḍa of the Vedas deals with karma or action, which is worship of God and the latter part, or jana-kanda deals with the nature of God. Thus, all the Vedas speak about God. The Lord of the Gita says: “The subject matter of all the Vedas is Myself”. The Vedas cannot be understood by ordinary mortals. Only rishis or seers can understand them. The meaning of the Vedas can be understood only from the upabrahmanās or elucidating supplementary of Vedas, which are called Ithihāsās, Purāṇas and which are the inspired writings of seers called riṣis. Ithihāsas are ancient histories like Rāmāyaṇa and Mahābhārata which relate to events of the long past. Purāṇas deal with the evolution and involution of the cosmos, the several dynasties of kings, manvantaras and so on. The former part of the Vedas is elucidated mostly by Smṛutis and the latter part mostly by Ithihāsās and Purāṇas.
Sriman Narayana is the Supreme Brahman, the God of all Gods!
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READ Forum-Wide Rules and Guidelines NOTICE: OFFENSIVE POSTS WILL BE DELETED, AND OFFENDERS WILL HAVE ALL POSTS MODERATED.
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Sudarshang
Sri:
Srimathe Raamaanujaaya Namaha
Srimath Varavara Munaye Namaha
Srimathe Sri Venkata Raamaanuja Munaye Namaha
Manu describes those who accept the Vedas and Shastras as pramana but do not get its right meaning (primarily driven by rajo and tamo gunas because they cause anyatha and viparita gyana) as Ku-drishti.
Anupam-ji alleged "You have faith in a particular sect of Achrayas " - the selection of acharya is based on one's guna aspect and your ability to sift through their interpretation - your "experience" is based on yur guna. I have already stated, doing one's varna ashrama dharma, and modifying the "life style" including what you eat, what you practice, ...all these contribute to one's experience and to increasing sattva guna. ONLY AS SATTVA GUNA grows will you be able to differentiate between the right and wrong.
Srimathe Raamaanujaaya Namaha
Srimath Varavara Munaye Namaha
Srimathe Sri Venkata Raamaanuja Munaye Namaha
Manu describes those who accept the Vedas and Shastras as pramana but do not get its right meaning (primarily driven by rajo and tamo gunas because they cause anyatha and viparita gyana) as Ku-drishti.
Anupam-ji alleged "You have faith in a particular sect of Achrayas " - the selection of acharya is based on one's guna aspect and your ability to sift through their interpretation - your "experience" is based on yur guna. I have already stated, doing one's varna ashrama dharma, and modifying the "life style" including what you eat, what you practice, ...all these contribute to one's experience and to increasing sattva guna. ONLY AS SATTVA GUNA grows will you be able to differentiate between the right and wrong.
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Sudarshang
Anupam-ji
There is no faith involved here - only yatavastitha gyana or anyatha gyana or viparita gyana. KG1968-ji has said a while ago in this thread, "Pl. tell me about your Ista devta and I will say he is not realised fully or waiting in queue " - that is very true! Let me correct it slightly, "Pls tell me your Ista Devata, and I will say which guna is higher in you - and therefore the type of your gyana you are driven by, and therefore your viewpoint/stand on this matter."
Even as I started this thread, I know the vast majority of the readers in this discussion thread will not agree with me, because, the vast majority of the people, not only on this forum but in this entire world are in a deep state of Tamo-guna. Tamas is the primary property of moola-prakriti from which creation started. That is because the vast majority are worshippers of a tamo-guna devatas (and there are many), the result is higher tamo guna, and therefore viparita gyana. The person with viparita gyana trusts acharyans that are aligned with his own thought process and those who justify/support his own view point. Just like devatas, there are many Tamo_guna acharayas also. If not, there are Rajo Guna acharyas that are propagating anyatha gyana. Several people do not even want to accept the presence or the role of these three gunas - but they are what makes you who you are - they control your vision and how you see things. Sriman Narayana is "Rajasa: parasstaat and Tamsa:Parasstaat." Sri Vaikuntha is Shudda-Sattvam - not even mishra-sattva that we experience.
Unless each person is able to grow some sattva guna, please do not expect any "experience to happen". Once it grows, you don't need any acharyan - only after that, sitting silently, doing nothing, knowledge grows by itself. That is what you call as "experience".
There is no faith involved here - only yatavastitha gyana or anyatha gyana or viparita gyana. KG1968-ji has said a while ago in this thread, "Pl. tell me about your Ista devta and I will say he is not realised fully or waiting in queue " - that is very true! Let me correct it slightly, "Pls tell me your Ista Devata, and I will say which guna is higher in you - and therefore the type of your gyana you are driven by, and therefore your viewpoint/stand on this matter."
Even as I started this thread, I know the vast majority of the readers in this discussion thread will not agree with me, because, the vast majority of the people, not only on this forum but in this entire world are in a deep state of Tamo-guna. Tamas is the primary property of moola-prakriti from which creation started. That is because the vast majority are worshippers of a tamo-guna devatas (and there are many), the result is higher tamo guna, and therefore viparita gyana. The person with viparita gyana trusts acharyans that are aligned with his own thought process and those who justify/support his own view point. Just like devatas, there are many Tamo_guna acharayas also. If not, there are Rajo Guna acharyas that are propagating anyatha gyana. Several people do not even want to accept the presence or the role of these three gunas - but they are what makes you who you are - they control your vision and how you see things. Sriman Narayana is "Rajasa: parasstaat and Tamsa:Parasstaat." Sri Vaikuntha is Shudda-Sattvam - not even mishra-sattva that we experience.
Unless each person is able to grow some sattva guna, please do not expect any "experience to happen". Once it grows, you don't need any acharyan - only after that, sitting silently, doing nothing, knowledge grows by itself. That is what you call as "experience".
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krishnagopal1968
- Frequent Contributor
- Posts: 715
- Joined: 11 Jan 2010
Sudharshan Ji,
This is how all are misled, you say "First develop satwa guna, then only experience possible."
If we observe our daily life , we will come to know that all these satwa,rajas and tamo gunas in us!
That is why i emphasize to see the daily life of ours first. Morning rushing to work, tense with full of tamo guna! Acting in full swing with rajas, then slowly in evening thinking about god, satwa guna erupts.
And this is 'Experience' ! That means encountering all the three gunas, watching the play of them' .
Are they coming from outside? No they are all inside. So there is no question of developing!!
And instead of developing, let us pay more attention to satwa, at what moments it comes, and associate our minds more to those type of surroundings like satsang,bhajans etc.
And learn to wait very patiently when Rajo and tamas operate. Surrender and prayer are very helpful.
Now in simple terms, a wandering mind cannot have satwa guna, so mind has to be made quiet, that itself is a indication of Satwa.
But this way of watching our life is difficult to our minds. It is very simple to post,quote and think about it. Our minds are lazy and feels very happy in just quoting and thinking!
This is how all are misled, you say "First develop satwa guna, then only experience possible."
If we observe our daily life , we will come to know that all these satwa,rajas and tamo gunas in us!
That is why i emphasize to see the daily life of ours first. Morning rushing to work, tense with full of tamo guna! Acting in full swing with rajas, then slowly in evening thinking about god, satwa guna erupts.
And this is 'Experience' ! That means encountering all the three gunas, watching the play of them' .
Are they coming from outside? No they are all inside. So there is no question of developing!!
And instead of developing, let us pay more attention to satwa, at what moments it comes, and associate our minds more to those type of surroundings like satsang,bhajans etc.
And learn to wait very patiently when Rajo and tamas operate. Surrender and prayer are very helpful.
Now in simple terms, a wandering mind cannot have satwa guna, so mind has to be made quiet, that itself is a indication of Satwa.
But this way of watching our life is difficult to our minds. It is very simple to post,quote and think about it. Our minds are lazy and feels very happy in just quoting and thinking!
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Sudarshang
KG1968-ji, atleast good that you are observing your daily routine to take cognizance of the tri-gunas in you - how many do even that? Your statements show how evolved you are. Appreciate your response. Yes, they are not merely internal, they are also external - because prakriti mandalam is made to the three gunas - they are everywhere around you as well, not merely within you. ...observing them is an important step in the practice. Keep observing and understanding the traits of each Guna as Krishna has stated in the BG...that itself is a great Sadhana that can lead to Moksha....
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krishnagopal1968
- Frequent Contributor
- Posts: 715
- Joined: 11 Jan 2010
Thanks sudarshan ji. And let us not say 'how many do that'.
We will do it, me and you. rest will follow according to their "pakva".
yes all gunas are in outside too. but the hook is inside!
so let us hook satwa by practice.
let me retire.
We will do it, me and you. rest will follow according to their "pakva".
yes all gunas are in outside too. but the hook is inside!
so let us hook satwa by practice.
let me retire.
Krishnagopalji:
"Now in simple terms, a wandering mind cannot have satwa guna, so mind has to be made quiet, that itself is a indication of Satwa."
Yes absolutely correct, but it is quite or nearly impossible by human efforts till time Almighty embraces or plucks one completely. I have experienced this personally from my case and also after seeing, many other people around me.
Even in my case, I have not yet won my mind completely though it comes to rest much much better than it previously has been some years back, though at times it still runs. Times again and again and again, I am trying, but it seems to be just impossible by our efforts and especially when you have such an yoga and when everything is happening just as per one's horo, what can one do?
MOREOVER, DO YOU THINK A PERSON WHO HAS WON HIS/HER MIND AND SENSES COMPLETELY, WILL COME AND WRITE HERE?
I am getting satwa guna qualities most of the time, but sometimes still the Rajas follows.
Now, Krishnagopalji, as far as I clearly understand, Sudharshangji has a high ego which is ruling him.
He does not have the attitude of accepting things frankly and openly of things which he does not know. It does not at all mean I do know everything. In fact, I do not know anything.
In fact, he has went on to tell and describe that MOST OF THE WORLD AND MAHANS ARE IN TAMO GUNA. I WONDER WHERE HE IS SITTING?
LEAVE EVERYTHING ASIDE, HOW HE CAN SO AUTHENTICALLY SAY THAT ONLY HE IS CORRECT AND ALL OF THOSE MAHARISHIS AND MAHANUBHAVAS ARE WRONG WHO HAVE TOLD "ALL IS ONE WHICH IS PART OF THE SAME SOURCE THOUGH PRESENT AT DIFFERENT LEVELS THROUGH MANY DIVERSITIES"
But, that attitude of OPENNESS TO ACCEPT THINGS IS ALSO ONE OF SATWA GUNA QUALITY, ESPECIALLY WHEN REALIZED SOULS TELL YOU SOMETHING.
HAVING AN OPEN MIND TO ACCEPT AS YOU ARE AND OPEN THE DOORS TO SEE WITH A GOOD HEART TO LEARN IS A MUST, NO MATTER HOW MUCH KNOWLEDGABLE ONE IS.
ABOVE AND ALL THESE THINGS, KRISHNAJI, SPIRITUALITY IS SOMETHING TO BE UNDERSTOOD BY EXPERIENCE IS MY VIEW. NO MATTER EVEN IF ONE WRITES 1 LAKH PAGE REGARDING SPIRITUALITY, UNTIL GRACE EMBRACES ONE, NOBODY WILL KNOW NOTHING. JUST READING VEDAS AND FEEDING BRAIN AND MEMORY, THAT'S IT AND HEARING ALSO.
NO MATTER WHATEVER U HEAR, IT IS ABSOLUTELY WASTE OF TIME AS IT AGAIN HELPS ONE FEEDING MEMORY ONLY.
DOES MERE HEARING AND READING VEDANTIC BOOKS AND VEDAS GIVE YOU THE EXPERIENCE? That is the reason exactly why EVEN AFTER 1000 PAGES OF WRITING REGARDING SPIRITUALITY in LOVA, YOU STILL SEE ALL KINDS OF OPPOSITIONS.
THE EXPERIENCE IS SOMETHING BEING GIVEN BY ALMIGHTY ONLY AND HE ONLY CAN MAKE YOU SIT IN THE TRUTH. NOW, AGAIN, PLEASE DO NOT SAY VAIKUNTA AND NARAYANA ONLY.
SUDHARSHANG JI, VAIKUNTA IS A NAME OR TERM WHICH LITERALLY MEANS "YOUR OWN EXISTENCE AT A HIGHER LEVEL OR COSMIC CONSCIOUSNESS OR NIRGUNA BRAHMAN"
HOW CAN A NIRGUNA BRAHMAM HAVE A FORM WHERE THERE IS NO GUNAS AT ALL?
IF YOU BECOME PART OF THAT NIRGUNA BRAHMAM, WHETHER IT IS KAILASA OR VAIKUNTA OR BRAHMA LOKA, DOES IT MAKE ANY DIFFERENCE TO YOU? IN FACT, IT SHOULD NOT.
YOU BECOME PART OF THIS UNIVERSE THEN, "AKANDA MANDALAKARAM VYAPATHAM YENA CHARA CHARAM, THATPADAM DARISHTAM YENA THASMAYAI SREE GURUVE NAMAH"
AKANDA MANDALKARAM, A WIDE SPREAD CONCEPT. VYAPTHAM YENA CHARA CHARAM, "IN EACH OF THE MOVING THINGS"
AFTER I AM ABLE TO SEE YOUR FEET "I AM ABLE TO VISUALIZE THIS ONENESS" AND THIS CONCEPT IS CALLED AS "DIVINE LOVE" OR IN OTHER WORDS "UNITY IN DIVERSITY"
VEDAS SAYS IN THIS, IN ITS OWN WORDS "ANOHO ANIAN MAHOTHO MAHIAN" IN EACH MOLECULE, IN THE ATOM OF AN ATOM" AND YOU ARE SAYING VAIKUNTA, NARAYANA.
I AM NOT AT ALL SAYING THIS WITH STUDYING VEDAS OR REFERRING BOOKS. IN FACT, I DO NOT KNOW WHERE IS THESE THINGS COMING TO ME WHEN I AM WRITING HERE.
HE WILL MAKE SIT EVERYBODY IN THAT TRUTH, BUT AT HIS OWN DISCRETION AND TIMINGS THAT HE DECIDES FOR ONE, NOT EVEN A SEC BEFORE THAT.
ONLY THE PERSONS WHO HAS SEEN THE LIGHT WITHIN CAN SEE THE OTHER PERSONS, BUT NORMAL PERSONS WHO ARE IN THE STATE MIND CANNOT VISUALIZE THIS INCLUDING ME.
THAT IS WHY SPIRITUALITY IS TERMED AS A "STATE" IF YOU SAY IN THE LANGUAGE OF RAMANA MAHARISHI "ATHUVE ULLA NILAI, ATHU ORU PERUM NILAI"
"THERINJAVANGA SONNA YERATHU"
THERINJAVANGA IS ALWAYS A PAITHYAM TO THIS WORLD OR MAD, ORU PITTHU PUDICHA NILAI.
Regards
Narayanan
"Now in simple terms, a wandering mind cannot have satwa guna, so mind has to be made quiet, that itself is a indication of Satwa."
Yes absolutely correct, but it is quite or nearly impossible by human efforts till time Almighty embraces or plucks one completely. I have experienced this personally from my case and also after seeing, many other people around me.
Even in my case, I have not yet won my mind completely though it comes to rest much much better than it previously has been some years back, though at times it still runs. Times again and again and again, I am trying, but it seems to be just impossible by our efforts and especially when you have such an yoga and when everything is happening just as per one's horo, what can one do?
MOREOVER, DO YOU THINK A PERSON WHO HAS WON HIS/HER MIND AND SENSES COMPLETELY, WILL COME AND WRITE HERE?
I am getting satwa guna qualities most of the time, but sometimes still the Rajas follows.
Now, Krishnagopalji, as far as I clearly understand, Sudharshangji has a high ego which is ruling him.
He does not have the attitude of accepting things frankly and openly of things which he does not know. It does not at all mean I do know everything. In fact, I do not know anything.
In fact, he has went on to tell and describe that MOST OF THE WORLD AND MAHANS ARE IN TAMO GUNA. I WONDER WHERE HE IS SITTING?
LEAVE EVERYTHING ASIDE, HOW HE CAN SO AUTHENTICALLY SAY THAT ONLY HE IS CORRECT AND ALL OF THOSE MAHARISHIS AND MAHANUBHAVAS ARE WRONG WHO HAVE TOLD "ALL IS ONE WHICH IS PART OF THE SAME SOURCE THOUGH PRESENT AT DIFFERENT LEVELS THROUGH MANY DIVERSITIES"
But, that attitude of OPENNESS TO ACCEPT THINGS IS ALSO ONE OF SATWA GUNA QUALITY, ESPECIALLY WHEN REALIZED SOULS TELL YOU SOMETHING.
HAVING AN OPEN MIND TO ACCEPT AS YOU ARE AND OPEN THE DOORS TO SEE WITH A GOOD HEART TO LEARN IS A MUST, NO MATTER HOW MUCH KNOWLEDGABLE ONE IS.
ABOVE AND ALL THESE THINGS, KRISHNAJI, SPIRITUALITY IS SOMETHING TO BE UNDERSTOOD BY EXPERIENCE IS MY VIEW. NO MATTER EVEN IF ONE WRITES 1 LAKH PAGE REGARDING SPIRITUALITY, UNTIL GRACE EMBRACES ONE, NOBODY WILL KNOW NOTHING. JUST READING VEDAS AND FEEDING BRAIN AND MEMORY, THAT'S IT AND HEARING ALSO.
NO MATTER WHATEVER U HEAR, IT IS ABSOLUTELY WASTE OF TIME AS IT AGAIN HELPS ONE FEEDING MEMORY ONLY.
DOES MERE HEARING AND READING VEDANTIC BOOKS AND VEDAS GIVE YOU THE EXPERIENCE? That is the reason exactly why EVEN AFTER 1000 PAGES OF WRITING REGARDING SPIRITUALITY in LOVA, YOU STILL SEE ALL KINDS OF OPPOSITIONS.
THE EXPERIENCE IS SOMETHING BEING GIVEN BY ALMIGHTY ONLY AND HE ONLY CAN MAKE YOU SIT IN THE TRUTH. NOW, AGAIN, PLEASE DO NOT SAY VAIKUNTA AND NARAYANA ONLY.
SUDHARSHANG JI, VAIKUNTA IS A NAME OR TERM WHICH LITERALLY MEANS "YOUR OWN EXISTENCE AT A HIGHER LEVEL OR COSMIC CONSCIOUSNESS OR NIRGUNA BRAHMAN"
HOW CAN A NIRGUNA BRAHMAM HAVE A FORM WHERE THERE IS NO GUNAS AT ALL?
IF YOU BECOME PART OF THAT NIRGUNA BRAHMAM, WHETHER IT IS KAILASA OR VAIKUNTA OR BRAHMA LOKA, DOES IT MAKE ANY DIFFERENCE TO YOU? IN FACT, IT SHOULD NOT.
YOU BECOME PART OF THIS UNIVERSE THEN, "AKANDA MANDALAKARAM VYAPATHAM YENA CHARA CHARAM, THATPADAM DARISHTAM YENA THASMAYAI SREE GURUVE NAMAH"
AKANDA MANDALKARAM, A WIDE SPREAD CONCEPT. VYAPTHAM YENA CHARA CHARAM, "IN EACH OF THE MOVING THINGS"
AFTER I AM ABLE TO SEE YOUR FEET "I AM ABLE TO VISUALIZE THIS ONENESS" AND THIS CONCEPT IS CALLED AS "DIVINE LOVE" OR IN OTHER WORDS "UNITY IN DIVERSITY"
VEDAS SAYS IN THIS, IN ITS OWN WORDS "ANOHO ANIAN MAHOTHO MAHIAN" IN EACH MOLECULE, IN THE ATOM OF AN ATOM" AND YOU ARE SAYING VAIKUNTA, NARAYANA.
I AM NOT AT ALL SAYING THIS WITH STUDYING VEDAS OR REFERRING BOOKS. IN FACT, I DO NOT KNOW WHERE IS THESE THINGS COMING TO ME WHEN I AM WRITING HERE.
HE WILL MAKE SIT EVERYBODY IN THAT TRUTH, BUT AT HIS OWN DISCRETION AND TIMINGS THAT HE DECIDES FOR ONE, NOT EVEN A SEC BEFORE THAT.
ONLY THE PERSONS WHO HAS SEEN THE LIGHT WITHIN CAN SEE THE OTHER PERSONS, BUT NORMAL PERSONS WHO ARE IN THE STATE MIND CANNOT VISUALIZE THIS INCLUDING ME.
THAT IS WHY SPIRITUALITY IS TERMED AS A "STATE" IF YOU SAY IN THE LANGUAGE OF RAMANA MAHARISHI "ATHUVE ULLA NILAI, ATHU ORU PERUM NILAI"
"THERINJAVANGA SONNA YERATHU"
THERINJAVANGA IS ALWAYS A PAITHYAM TO THIS WORLD OR MAD, ORU PITTHU PUDICHA NILAI.
Regards
Narayanan
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krishnagopal1968
- Frequent Contributor
- Posts: 715
- Joined: 11 Jan 2010
Anupam Ji,
'Pakva" is a sanskrit word, meaning baked. Hindi word "pukka" or "pakka" comes from it.
Also it means maturity.
When i said retire, it is retiring to self enquiry.
'Pakva" is a sanskrit word, meaning baked. Hindi word "pukka" or "pakka" comes from it.
Also it means maturity.
When i said retire, it is retiring to self enquiry.
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krishnagopal1968
- Frequent Contributor
- Posts: 715
- Joined: 11 Jan 2010
Narayan Ji,
"but it is quite or nearly impossible by human efforts till time Almighty embraces or plucks one completely"
No, it is just our mind's escaping nature by bringing Almighty. Please don't block yourself by saying this.
Just watch your daily life, how we act,react to others, it is only through others mirrors, we learn about ourselves!
And you also asked if anybody who has realised come into blog for writing. Yes realised persons only speak. But there are always seekers who are not on the same level. some may be higher in understanding, and when they share, something in us also corresponds and click!
Now the very capital letters of your post shows ego reacting! Just watch your body feeling in those times of writing.
Also a clue, whenever we react to others ego, it is our own ego reacting!!
So let us thank the person who gives this chance and watch our feeling. If we watch without judging that it is ego,bad! or defending what we say, no iam right, just watch the feeling.
Please test this. In my experience it disappears as you watch, but don't take it as a conclusion., test this pl.
"but it is quite or nearly impossible by human efforts till time Almighty embraces or plucks one completely"
No, it is just our mind's escaping nature by bringing Almighty. Please don't block yourself by saying this.
Just watch your daily life, how we act,react to others, it is only through others mirrors, we learn about ourselves!
And you also asked if anybody who has realised come into blog for writing. Yes realised persons only speak. But there are always seekers who are not on the same level. some may be higher in understanding, and when they share, something in us also corresponds and click!
Now the very capital letters of your post shows ego reacting! Just watch your body feeling in those times of writing.
Also a clue, whenever we react to others ego, it is our own ego reacting!!
So let us thank the person who gives this chance and watch our feeling. If we watch without judging that it is ego,bad! or defending what we say, no iam right, just watch the feeling.
Please test this. In my experience it disappears as you watch, but don't take it as a conclusion., test this pl.
Aseemji:
May I know the reason for your smile, such deep-throated smile? Anyways, I am also joining your smiley....
as a fool.
Now, Krishnaji "defending what we say, no iam right"
I have no defendence from my part nor I have ever said only I am right. I always keep my mind open always and if there is a chance to learn, I always take that on my part. I am always open to acceptance if there is something to learn and I feel everything is a learning curve.
I am not like the other who keeps on just keep stating his/her part firmly.
Have noted your points and will take that. Thanks once again for your suggestions and advices.
Thanks
Narayanan
May I know the reason for your smile, such deep-throated smile? Anyways, I am also joining your smiley....
as a fool.Now, Krishnaji "defending what we say, no iam right"
I have no defendence from my part nor I have ever said only I am right. I always keep my mind open always and if there is a chance to learn, I always take that on my part. I am always open to acceptance if there is something to learn and I feel everything is a learning curve.
I am not like the other who keeps on just keep stating his/her part firmly.
Have noted your points and will take that. Thanks once again for your suggestions and advices.
Thanks
Narayanan
Respected Anupamji:
"Think why Mercury is the significator of Vishnu and Jupiter is of Shiva
and then we will start a new thread from the other way round. "
I do not have much knowledge Anupamji to say something on it, though, I know some consider Jupiter as Shiva and some others consider the same Jupiter as Sriman Narayana or Vishnu. So, I have no idea about that.
Meanwhile, if you can kindly enlighten me on the same, it will be nice.
Anupamji, I know only one thing. In Hinduism, we people have made 1000s and 1000s of Hindu Gods and I strongly believe in worshipping one God strongly rather than all of the GODS, which in fact, helps nobody.
Though, I have to ask then why are you worshipping God?
Having said that, I am not against any of them. Those who want to worship all those 1000s of GODS, may please continue.
Is it better to dig a well deep at a place to find water or is it better to dig well after well within a few spaces left in between?
Regards
Narayanan
"Think why Mercury is the significator of Vishnu and Jupiter is of Shiva
and then we will start a new thread from the other way round. "I do not have much knowledge Anupamji to say something on it, though, I know some consider Jupiter as Shiva and some others consider the same Jupiter as Sriman Narayana or Vishnu. So, I have no idea about that.
Meanwhile, if you can kindly enlighten me on the same, it will be nice.
Anupamji, I know only one thing. In Hinduism, we people have made 1000s and 1000s of Hindu Gods and I strongly believe in worshipping one God strongly rather than all of the GODS, which in fact, helps nobody.
Though, I have to ask then why are you worshipping God?
Having said that, I am not against any of them. Those who want to worship all those 1000s of GODS, may please continue.
Is it better to dig a well deep at a place to find water or is it better to dig well after well within a few spaces left in between?
Regards
Narayanan
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krishnagopal1968
- Frequent Contributor
- Posts: 715
- Joined: 11 Jan 2010
Dear Narayan ji,
Pl. there is no need to call ourself as a Fool. It is the same ego coming from back door!
How can the watcher which is there in all of us can be a fool? It is neither intelligent nor fool nor both!
Our very verbalising or defining ourselves, is the ego, which is nothing but a false-self.Sometimes it is intelligent and other times not. And even this difference comes through comparison. It is ofcourse needed to just function in world. It is the earth or mud which surrounds our reality.
Now pl see this way. we dig a well and create a pit. The space inside the pit was not created by us. We only removed the earth which was covering the space. Space was there before too. The earth is our ego/samskaras/thoughts/mind/chitta whatever we can name it.
Just digging is what required, and I simply shared my way of digging, ie,watching.
Please don't take that as an advise! Yes if i say, follow jaimini not parasara, or consider d 45 chart, or dont take d60 for past life, that may be an advise.
we both are in same space!!
May be i could have dug a little more earth, could see or free little more space, thats all.
Pl. there is no need to call ourself as a Fool. It is the same ego coming from back door!
How can the watcher which is there in all of us can be a fool? It is neither intelligent nor fool nor both!
Our very verbalising or defining ourselves, is the ego, which is nothing but a false-self.Sometimes it is intelligent and other times not. And even this difference comes through comparison. It is ofcourse needed to just function in world. It is the earth or mud which surrounds our reality.
Now pl see this way. we dig a well and create a pit. The space inside the pit was not created by us. We only removed the earth which was covering the space. Space was there before too. The earth is our ego/samskaras/thoughts/mind/chitta whatever we can name it.
Just digging is what required, and I simply shared my way of digging, ie,watching.
Please don't take that as an advise! Yes if i say, follow jaimini not parasara, or consider d 45 chart, or dont take d60 for past life, that may be an advise.
we both are in same space!!
May be i could have dug a little more earth, could see or free little more space, thats all.
Krishnagopalji:
"We only removed the earth which was covering the space. Space was there before too"
I could not yet remove that earth though the wisdom is piercing through the earth. It is that big block to me as far as I am concerned, a virtual Rahu. I am asking God's help to remove that earth or that covering which is standing above the 5 koshas and the wisdom remaining within it. Hope, Almighty might have decided something about it.
I would like to humbly quote two lines from Bhagavad Padal's Dakshinamoorti sthotra in context to the above.
"Rahu Grastha Divakarendu Sadrusho Maya Samadhachanath"
What is Maya? There cannot be a big definition than the above. "Rahu Grastha Divakarah Indu Sadrusho" What a big word Bhagavad Padal has said or in other words "open space covered by earth", but does anything happen to space due to that? No or in other words "Maya is something like a shadow covering sun and Moon during eclipse" Divakarah= sun Indu=Moon and used "Sadrusho-meaning like" Maya is that like only. ...but it seems very much true...
During that time, we are able to see only shadow and we think that shadow as a real one, but does anything happen to SUN? No, as sun is always the king. Sun remains as unperturbed like a crystal clear sky.
Shadow is something what our outer eyes can see, but when we move closer, the shadow might not be even near to actual Sun. The same way is Maya, many things are portrayed are real to our outer eyes, though truth is something else. In short, Rahu is the darkness or Tamas or that ego and Ketu is divine wisdom or divinity.
Meanwhile, Sringeri Acharya, his holiness sri sri bharathi theertha swamigal is visiting palakkad in April as part of his holiness's Vijaya Yathra, this the information I have as of now, though we have to wait and see. To me, acharayal is everything as he is my prana, jeeva, father etc in form of Sadashiva. Acharaya's feet are my rama rajya. I am pinning all my ray of hope on his holiness. Hope, acharyal might have some conclusion to the same.
Regards
Narayanan
"We only removed the earth which was covering the space. Space was there before too"
I could not yet remove that earth though the wisdom is piercing through the earth. It is that big block to me as far as I am concerned, a virtual Rahu. I am asking God's help to remove that earth or that covering which is standing above the 5 koshas and the wisdom remaining within it. Hope, Almighty might have decided something about it.
I would like to humbly quote two lines from Bhagavad Padal's Dakshinamoorti sthotra in context to the above.
"Rahu Grastha Divakarendu Sadrusho Maya Samadhachanath"
What is Maya? There cannot be a big definition than the above. "Rahu Grastha Divakarah Indu Sadrusho" What a big word Bhagavad Padal has said or in other words "open space covered by earth", but does anything happen to space due to that? No or in other words "Maya is something like a shadow covering sun and Moon during eclipse" Divakarah= sun Indu=Moon and used "Sadrusho-meaning like" Maya is that like only.
...but it seems very much true...During that time, we are able to see only shadow and we think that shadow as a real one, but does anything happen to SUN? No, as sun is always the king. Sun remains as unperturbed like a crystal clear sky.
Shadow is something what our outer eyes can see, but when we move closer, the shadow might not be even near to actual Sun. The same way is Maya, many things are portrayed are real to our outer eyes, though truth is something else. In short, Rahu is the darkness or Tamas or that ego and Ketu is divine wisdom or divinity.
Meanwhile, Sringeri Acharya, his holiness sri sri bharathi theertha swamigal is visiting palakkad in April as part of his holiness's Vijaya Yathra, this the information I have as of now, though we have to wait and see. To me, acharayal is everything as he is my prana, jeeva, father etc in form of Sadashiva. Acharaya's feet are my rama rajya. I am pinning all my ray of hope on his holiness. Hope, acharyal might have some conclusion to the same.
Regards
Narayanan
Last edited by Narayan on 27 Feb 2012, edited 1 time in total.
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krishnagopal1968
- Frequent Contributor
- Posts: 715
- Joined: 11 Jan 2010
Dear Narayan Ji,
See , again you create a block saying i can't dig due to rahu. Pl dont do that.
Find out moments when there is no rahu! and start digging.
You always having the moments of rahu is not possible. Be patient when you have rahu and surrender and pray to lord in those times. Thats all.
See , again you create a block saying i can't dig due to rahu. Pl dont do that.
Find out moments when there is no rahu! and start digging.
You always having the moments of rahu is not possible. Be patient when you have rahu and surrender and pray to lord in those times. Thats all.
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aseem82
Arey narayanji, please don't take my comment wrongly. It is just the discussion here and everyone is right in his own way. It reminds me of the old joke i.e. We indians are argumentative and so that's why we have not progessed. We just end up ourselves in arguing, the present project suffers and so no progess.
Aseemji:
"It is just the discussion here and everyone is right in his own way. It reminds me of the old joke i.e. We indians are argumentative and so that's why we have not progessed."
Yes you are correct, everyone maybe right, but I am not at all interested to find out who is right and who is wrong. I also expressed my view points only from my own experience and not from an argumentative point at all plus many mahanubhavas and acharyas opinions, that's all. I am stopping.
Thanks
Narayanan
"It is just the discussion here and everyone is right in his own way. It reminds me of the old joke i.e. We indians are argumentative and so that's why we have not progessed."
Yes you are correct, everyone maybe right, but I am not at all interested to find out who is right and who is wrong. I also expressed my view points only from my own experience and not from an argumentative point at all plus many mahanubhavas and acharyas opinions, that's all. I am stopping.
Thanks
Narayanan
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aseem82
Dear Narayanji, my post was a general and not aimed at a particular person. I have a respect for you and it feels great everytime we have a chat occasionally. Please continue with your posts.
Anupamjianupam1968 wrote:Narayan Ji,
Think why Mercury is the significator of Vishnu and Jupiter is of Shiva
would really love to know your thoughts.
Nothing is free except God's Grace.
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Sudarshang
Me, too! I would be curious to know how that discussion goes!!! will post more when I get back ....kandhan wrote:Anupamjianupam1968 wrote:Narayan Ji,
Think why Mercury is the significator of Vishnu and Jupiter is of Shiva
would really love to know your thoughts.
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Sudarshang
Narayanan sirNarayan wrote: Anupamji, I know only one thing. In Hinduism, we people have made 1000s and 1000s of Hindu Gods and I strongly believe in worshipping one God strongly rather than all of the GODS, which in fact, helps nobody.
Though, I have to ask then why are you worshipping God?
Regards
Narayanan
There is ONE and ONLY ONE God in Hinduism! He is called, Atma, Jyoti, Paramam, Brahman, Narayana etc. They all point to that one and only one Brahman that is Satyam, Gyanam, and Anantam! Btw, what is your interpretation of the shastra vakyam "Satyam Gyanam Anantam Brahma" - that He does not have any Gunas? Let us interpret shastra vakyas in a straight forward manner than "imagining" a "guna-less" Brahmam! What shastras REALLY mean by Brahmam being "nirgunam" is that the Brahmam does not have "negative" gunas - that means the Brahmam only has "kalyana-gunas". Therefore Brahmam has Gunas.
I will also post more about why the Brahmam also has FORM.
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Sudarshang
Here is why I believe Adi Shankara Bhagavadpadaal has been misunderstood by his followers:
In the beautiful song he composed on My LORD Thiruvaranganaathan (Ranganaathaashtakam) the first verse goes like this:
Aananda Roope, Nija Bodha Roope, Brahmaswaroope, Shruti Moorthy Roope
Shashaanka Roope, RamaNeeya Roope, Shriranga Roope, Ramataam Mano Me.
How many more Roopas do you need? Adi Shankara was a parama vaishnavan who agreed that Sriman Narayana is the Supreme Brahman. He also acknowledged HIS FORM. If after reading His words, how could anyone think Brahmam does not have a FORM? The world of Duality is equally as much a reality as the world of non-duality. The world of duality is not a myth as many believe it to be. Adi Shankara has been very badly misunderstood - and perhaps this happend when then so called western scholars misinterpret the Hindu religion and our own Indian scholars started using English Language.
Brahmam has a form - when it can created so many formful and beautiful creatures - when it can take a Mohini avataar to captivate the imagination of the asuras, when He can come down and live amidst us as Rama and Krishna, saying He is FORMLESS is equivalent to equating Him to other Gods. He created the so called Gods. He created the Planets, and gave them the job they are doing today! Those who worship HIM have nothing to be afraid of. Like Adi Shankara says in the same song says:
Idam Hi Rangam, Tyajataatmihaangam PUNARNASHAANGAM yadi shaangameti
Paanau Rathaangam Charaneembukaangam Yaanevihangam Shayane Bujhangam
They don't come back to live.
In the beautiful song he composed on My LORD Thiruvaranganaathan (Ranganaathaashtakam) the first verse goes like this:
Aananda Roope, Nija Bodha Roope, Brahmaswaroope, Shruti Moorthy Roope
Shashaanka Roope, RamaNeeya Roope, Shriranga Roope, Ramataam Mano Me.
How many more Roopas do you need? Adi Shankara was a parama vaishnavan who agreed that Sriman Narayana is the Supreme Brahman. He also acknowledged HIS FORM. If after reading His words, how could anyone think Brahmam does not have a FORM? The world of Duality is equally as much a reality as the world of non-duality. The world of duality is not a myth as many believe it to be. Adi Shankara has been very badly misunderstood - and perhaps this happend when then so called western scholars misinterpret the Hindu religion and our own Indian scholars started using English Language.
Brahmam has a form - when it can created so many formful and beautiful creatures - when it can take a Mohini avataar to captivate the imagination of the asuras, when He can come down and live amidst us as Rama and Krishna, saying He is FORMLESS is equivalent to equating Him to other Gods. He created the so called Gods. He created the Planets, and gave them the job they are doing today! Those who worship HIM have nothing to be afraid of. Like Adi Shankara says in the same song says:
Idam Hi Rangam, Tyajataatmihaangam PUNARNASHAANGAM yadi shaangameti
Paanau Rathaangam Charaneembukaangam Yaanevihangam Shayane Bujhangam
They don't come back to live.
Last edited by Sudarshang on 28 Feb 2012, edited 1 time in total.
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Sudarshang
Krishna could not have been clearer than this!
Sarva Dharmaan Parityejya MAAM EKAM SHARANAM VRAJA
AHAM TVA SARVA PAAPEPBHYO MOKSHAISHYAAMI MAA SUCHA:
Sarva Dharmaan Parityejya - Tyejya is to Leave, Pari Tyejya is the Leave "very well". Sarva Dharmaan - why Dharmaan? Why is he asking us to Leave Dharma? What does He mean by Savra (all) Dharma here? Please think. Somebody had stated earlier in this thread about how Moksha is the final purushartha and one has to transcend Dharma, Artha, and Kama in order to get Moksha - Hint, Hint, Please think ....
MAAM EKAM - ONLY ME (That in itself negates other so called "GODS"). What is the need for the "ekam" here? He could have very well said Maam Sharanam Vraja - leaving the option of surrendering to "other so called Gods" open. Think again ....
Sharanam Vraja - Surrender To.
Aham - I
Tva - Your
Sarva Paapebhyo - removing all your paapa karma (to be understood here as all Karma, good and bad, because all karma, even good karma is bad as it can return you to living)
Mokshayishyaami : Will grant you MOKSHA.
Maa Shucha: - Dont Worry! Why did He add this? Think again ...
No other God has ever and will ever be able to give an ASSURANCE about Moksha, so clear as this, than the Supreme Brahman, Sriman Narayana whose avataar is Krishna. Maa Shucha: in itself removes all worries about planets and their effects.
Sarva Dharmaan Parityejya MAAM EKAM SHARANAM VRAJA
AHAM TVA SARVA PAAPEPBHYO MOKSHAISHYAAMI MAA SUCHA:
Sarva Dharmaan Parityejya - Tyejya is to Leave, Pari Tyejya is the Leave "very well". Sarva Dharmaan - why Dharmaan? Why is he asking us to Leave Dharma? What does He mean by Savra (all) Dharma here? Please think. Somebody had stated earlier in this thread about how Moksha is the final purushartha and one has to transcend Dharma, Artha, and Kama in order to get Moksha - Hint, Hint, Please think ....
MAAM EKAM - ONLY ME (That in itself negates other so called "GODS"). What is the need for the "ekam" here? He could have very well said Maam Sharanam Vraja - leaving the option of surrendering to "other so called Gods" open. Think again ....
Sharanam Vraja - Surrender To.
Aham - I
Tva - Your
Sarva Paapebhyo - removing all your paapa karma (to be understood here as all Karma, good and bad, because all karma, even good karma is bad as it can return you to living)
Mokshayishyaami : Will grant you MOKSHA.
Maa Shucha: - Dont Worry! Why did He add this? Think again ...
No other God has ever and will ever be able to give an ASSURANCE about Moksha, so clear as this, than the Supreme Brahman, Sriman Narayana whose avataar is Krishna. Maa Shucha: in itself removes all worries about planets and their effects.
Last edited by Sudarshang on 28 Feb 2012, edited 2 times in total.
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Sudarshang
Planets have been put in place by Sriman Narayana and are HIS slaves like all of us, including Brahma and Shiva are. All are Jeevatmas. Jeevatmas cannot sustain without HIM. He is the cause of Creation, and Destruction as well - He is the sarva-kaarakan. He is the KaaraNam. He is the Kaaryam. He is the cause of all that happens. He is everything that happens! Shrishti, Stithi, Laya - all are done by Him - taking the forms of Anirudha, Pradyumna, and Shankarshana and being the antaryaami in Brahma, Vishnu, and Shiva. And That is Sriman Narayana. During Pralaya kaalam, all planets will be destroyed, all worlds, all universes within Leela Vibhuti will be destroyed! Only Nitya Vibhuti will remain as is. There is another 145 trillion human years for this great pralaya during which time Brahma, Vishnu, and Shiva will all be destroyed. When the new srishti begins, He will recreate them - a new Brahma, A new Vishnu, and a new Shiva, and New Grahas will emerge and run the world upon His order. And Mercury is His significator?Sudarshang wrote:Me, too! I would be curious to know how that discussion goes!!! will post more when I get back ....kandhan wrote:Anupamjianupam1968 wrote:Narayan Ji,
Think why Mercury is the significator of Vishnu and Jupiter is of Shiva
would really love to know your thoughts.
SudarhanjiSudarshang wrote:What shastras REALLY mean by Brahmam being "nirgunam" is that the Brahmam does not have "negative" gunas - that means the Brahmam only has "kalyana-gunas". Therefore Brahmam has Gunas.
I will also post more about why the Brahmam also has FORM.
a word of advice that will really be of help, not just to you but to anyone
Get a firm grip on sanksrit before deciding what shastra "really" means.
nih upasarga which takes the forms as nis and nir means without, nischala does not mean not having negative movement, it means no movement...
please see panini sutras. If it was with no negative qualities it would be Suguna,having good qualities upasarga "su".
About Adi Shankara's interpretation by followers, i have nothing to say as you have made it clear that you have not studied bhashya.
Faith is always good Sudarshanji, putting others' faiths down i wouldnt consider a sattvik thing,
nor would i think it's the action of a sadhak but i will not say its wrong, perhaps that is your path, and i believe truth is pathless so i will not judge on this point, it my own consideration so obviously not absolute.
My advice to you as a fellow sadhaka is to get a grip on sanskrit, it can only bring good to understand the
subject matter in original form.
May your sadhana be Suphala
regards
suniti
Last edited by suniti on 28 Feb 2012, edited 1 time in total.
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