intersingly my ketu is in 12th as well.
lagna ; capricon,
guru chandra in 10th house.
venus in 4th
sun mercury in 5th
sat mars in 9th
ketu in 12th
being in jupieter dasha(lord of 3rd and 12th) i am out of my home town.
i am spiritualy inclined as well as believe in material prosperity.
Ketu in 12th=moksha
Forum rules
READ Forum-Wide Rules and Guidelines NOTICE: OFFENSIVE POSTS WILL BE DELETED, AND OFFENDERS WILL HAVE ALL POSTS MODERATED.
READ Forum-Wide Rules and Guidelines NOTICE: OFFENSIVE POSTS WILL BE DELETED, AND OFFENDERS WILL HAVE ALL POSTS MODERATED.
Dear Rajithaji:
"In fact, I don't know what they represent since I am not a brahmin."
Brahmin means not a person who is wearing sacred threads or doing any particular anushtanas....That is not the real meaning.
Vishnu Sahrasnama Says "Brahma Vith Brahamno Brahmi" Which means one who is in Brahamam is said to be called the real brahmin. I cannot understand how people describe it as otherwise wearing sacred threads or anusthanams etc...as all that is for "Chitta Sudhi" to go beyond mind.
In fact, we all are part of Brahmam...but we are all in mindly world that we are not able to cognise the real which is beyond body-mind-intellect. When the mind becomes perfect and clear without oscillating, it will flash like a light, like a sun when the clouds get cleared. It needs no effort actually....this is what is called as actually Moksha-to get liberated. Without Brahmam, there is no Brahmin. When the mind is still as "Ekagra Chittham" then there is no particular sadhanas required like Ramana Maharishi....otherwise, one has to carry on till the Mind remains still.
Regards,
Narayan
"In fact, I don't know what they represent since I am not a brahmin."
Brahmin means not a person who is wearing sacred threads or doing any particular anushtanas....That is not the real meaning.
Vishnu Sahrasnama Says "Brahma Vith Brahamno Brahmi" Which means one who is in Brahamam is said to be called the real brahmin. I cannot understand how people describe it as otherwise wearing sacred threads or anusthanams etc...as all that is for "Chitta Sudhi" to go beyond mind.
In fact, we all are part of Brahmam...but we are all in mindly world that we are not able to cognise the real which is beyond body-mind-intellect. When the mind becomes perfect and clear without oscillating, it will flash like a light, like a sun when the clouds get cleared. It needs no effort actually....this is what is called as actually Moksha-to get liberated. Without Brahmam, there is no Brahmin. When the mind is still as "Ekagra Chittham" then there is no particular sadhanas required like Ramana Maharishi....otherwise, one has to carry on till the Mind remains still.
Regards,
Narayan
The nodes are always 7th from each other. Most authorities consider Rahu to own Virgo(6th house) and Ketu to own (12th house). Ketu is generally considered the "moksha" signifier, while Rahu is generally considered the signifier of entitlement or desire. Where ever Rahu is placed will drive the person towards it. The odd thing is that no matter where Rahu or Ketu is placed, they have a direct relationship between each other(almost like parivartan yoga or something). Logically speaking, they both lead to the same place. Desire and disconnection are the same thing, they are inevitably linked. You can't disconnect from something without desire; and you can't desire something without disconnection. Everyone has these two components (the great paradox of incarnation).
And because of this, the axis is more important than the actual rashi or bhava. Ketu is Rahu, its just not apparent. The mythology behind Rahu and Ketu pretty much sums it up well. They were once one, but now they are separate. The dispositors are the most important thing, as strong dispositors can help put Rahu back together
. The only way to make Rahu happy is to give up to Ketu and realize that they are the same thing.
And because of this, the axis is more important than the actual rashi or bhava. Ketu is Rahu, its just not apparent. The mythology behind Rahu and Ketu pretty much sums it up well. They were once one, but now they are separate. The dispositors are the most important thing, as strong dispositors can help put Rahu back together
. The only way to make Rahu happy is to give up to Ketu and realize that they are the same thing.Also to note, saying Rahu= materiality is sort of misleading. Rahu represents the ego(which is based around desires). If in a materialistic rashi then it will desire material things. If its in a spiritual rashi it will desire spiritual things. The only way that I could see Rahu= materiality is if you thought of materiality in very vague terms as in everything of the mind being material. Yes everything of the mind is material in some regard as desire itself must be based around something.
hi friends!
nice thread this.!
jyotish essentially is a science to guide one's souls journey towards
moksh.
so, there might be probability on this matter in the chart.
moksh or enlightenment is beyond any prediction or indications in chart
i think.
its a souls journey and only the soul knows about it.
and this is the only final thing soul is interested in(why?...see later para)
unless and until we go inside us to search, we wouldnt know a thing.
poor ketu cant help much on this matter... we have to work towards it.
now, we work on this journey by way of meditation or bhakti , due
to ketu placement or because we wanted to work in such a way in past
lives,
that our ketu was placed such during the time of our birth......that
is the question!!!!
it has to be that our past life is accountable due to very fine placement
for spirituality, of ketu.
now again, if one's ketu is placed such and the others such and such
is a matter of accident or maybe high intelligence during past lifetimes.
the choice is ours.
lets just forget about past life again as we dont know it at all and no matter how much we read from spiritual texts or books, it is not our own experience.
if we learn from life, we would take a turn for spirituality as there would be
no other way left..(this is high intelligence) because life is around
each one of us all the time and it depends on one's intelligence
whether we understand or not that we are moving in same circles
again and again,even within 1 lifetime and we achive nothing.
so, the choice is ours.... i am trying hard too.
just my views.
vairagya
nice thread this.!
jyotish essentially is a science to guide one's souls journey towards
moksh.
so, there might be probability on this matter in the chart.
moksh or enlightenment is beyond any prediction or indications in chart
i think.
its a souls journey and only the soul knows about it.
and this is the only final thing soul is interested in(why?...see later para)
unless and until we go inside us to search, we wouldnt know a thing.
poor ketu cant help much on this matter... we have to work towards it.
now, we work on this journey by way of meditation or bhakti , due
to ketu placement or because we wanted to work in such a way in past
lives,
that our ketu was placed such during the time of our birth......that
is the question!!!!
it has to be that our past life is accountable due to very fine placement
for spirituality, of ketu.
now again, if one's ketu is placed such and the others such and such
is a matter of accident or maybe high intelligence during past lifetimes.
the choice is ours.
lets just forget about past life again as we dont know it at all and no matter how much we read from spiritual texts or books, it is not our own experience.
if we learn from life, we would take a turn for spirituality as there would be
no other way left..(this is high intelligence) because life is around
each one of us all the time and it depends on one's intelligence
whether we understand or not that we are moving in same circles
again and again,even within 1 lifetime and we achive nothing.
so, the choice is ours.... i am trying hard too.
just my views.
vairagya
-
rex
well said vairgya, I am totally agree with you. we have to learn from every incident happening in our life and should stop blaming planets. planets are doing the work assigned to them. soul's main aim is to complete it's journey but how fast, depends on us and the choice we make or the turn we take. I would like to paste here few lines i have written sometime ago.
Bhagvan ne ajeeb anyay kiya, saza di per man main ik savaal diya
Kis baat ki saza mili hai , grihon ki kyon aisi sthithi hai,
Paida to masoom hoa tha, grihon ka kya bora kiya tha
Pichle janam ka jab pata nahi hai, is janam main kyon saza bani hai.
Karmon ka hai khel nirala, bare bare ko uljhan main dala,
Kabhi to lagta sab jhoot hai, na koi bhagvan na hi bhoot hai,
Khood aankhon pe hai parda dala, ateet or bhavishya main khood ko pala,
na attet na bhavishya jano , kyon na sach keval vartman ko mano.
When Ego overshadow "Dharma", It becomes "Adharma" [/url]
Bhagvan ne ajeeb anyay kiya, saza di per man main ik savaal diya
Kis baat ki saza mili hai , grihon ki kyon aisi sthithi hai,
Paida to masoom hoa tha, grihon ka kya bora kiya tha
Pichle janam ka jab pata nahi hai, is janam main kyon saza bani hai.
Karmon ka hai khel nirala, bare bare ko uljhan main dala,
Kabhi to lagta sab jhoot hai, na koi bhagvan na hi bhoot hai,
Khood aankhon pe hai parda dala, ateet or bhavishya main khood ko pala,
na attet na bhavishya jano , kyon na sach keval vartman ko mano.
When Ego overshadow "Dharma", It becomes "Adharma" [/url]
Dear Vairagya:
You have missed a point here....If you do not have yoga, then even if you take effort...there is less chance that will happen in this lifetime. Actually no effort is required, it is not a thing to be achieved by effort...but effort is for making the mind to remain calm and still and whereby no thought or thinking process arise...If that happens, then enligthment is bound to happen...and for that, you need to have strong yoga and the planet should have enough strength to help you realize. But, in case if you do not have yoga, I can see it happening only in next birth. If there is yoga, then without doubt it will happen.
As far as I am concerned Kethu is not the actual factor here, Kethu stands for knowledge and can help you in knowledge like preparing for exams and also in deep meditation etc, but apart from that, the 12th Lord should be associated with Lagna Lord and most preferably the 8th Lord and its disposer...bcoz 8th is where ayur bhava or where the soul is. Above these, Jupiter should have strong connection with 8th and 12th Lord as Disposer.
If kethu stands in 12th and is associated with 12th Lord and 8th lord and disposer of 8th house and If Jupiter has strong connection, then one can say the native is his final phase of journey in this outer world.
For e.g. I accidentally came across a girl who is in a foreign country...She is only around 28 years of age. Her Lagna is Makara..Kethu is in 1st...in her 7th is Moon and Rahu. in her 8th is Lagna Lord Saturn along with Jupiter. Now, that Jupiter owns 12th house and 3rd house. Moreover, that 8th Lord Sun is exalted in 4th house and she is in ecatasy when she realized just 1 year back. She remains there even now. She is only a single and she has no particualr interest in anything bcoz "she is saying I do not see any difference outside nor I do see anything astonishing or bigger, but I am seeing God in everybody" this is a yogi's saying. Just imagine, she is just 28 and she is already in eternal bliss...now how many of we do are in that state? So many are anxiously waiting to that happen...but for her, it happened with simple meditation.
For her, it was possible bcoz Lagna Lord associated with Jupiter and 8th Lord sun is exalted and kethu in lagna just added to the cause, that's all. So, it is not true to say just by effort realization happens as without yoga, I do not think it wont happen in the native's lifetime.
Now moreover if Lagna Lord is saturn and if that has something to do with realization aspect, then I would term it as best bcoz there cannot be a better teacher than Saturn. If you see all other planets, it will give only outside things which will all perish, but as far as what I can feel, Saturn is not like that...it will take you through all planes and perfectly wipes you to so as you be the best when you are there.
Moreover, I have a doubt here regarding Atma Karaka. I have seen in this forum some is saying Sun is Atama Karaka and some is saying Mars is Atma Karaka....or is it Atma Karaka is different for each and every one according to his/her chart?
Regards,
Narayanan
You have missed a point here....If you do not have yoga, then even if you take effort...there is less chance that will happen in this lifetime. Actually no effort is required, it is not a thing to be achieved by effort...but effort is for making the mind to remain calm and still and whereby no thought or thinking process arise...If that happens, then enligthment is bound to happen...and for that, you need to have strong yoga and the planet should have enough strength to help you realize. But, in case if you do not have yoga, I can see it happening only in next birth. If there is yoga, then without doubt it will happen.
As far as I am concerned Kethu is not the actual factor here, Kethu stands for knowledge and can help you in knowledge like preparing for exams and also in deep meditation etc, but apart from that, the 12th Lord should be associated with Lagna Lord and most preferably the 8th Lord and its disposer...bcoz 8th is where ayur bhava or where the soul is. Above these, Jupiter should have strong connection with 8th and 12th Lord as Disposer.
If kethu stands in 12th and is associated with 12th Lord and 8th lord and disposer of 8th house and If Jupiter has strong connection, then one can say the native is his final phase of journey in this outer world.
For e.g. I accidentally came across a girl who is in a foreign country...She is only around 28 years of age. Her Lagna is Makara..Kethu is in 1st...in her 7th is Moon and Rahu. in her 8th is Lagna Lord Saturn along with Jupiter. Now, that Jupiter owns 12th house and 3rd house. Moreover, that 8th Lord Sun is exalted in 4th house and she is in ecatasy when she realized just 1 year back. She remains there even now. She is only a single and she has no particualr interest in anything bcoz "she is saying I do not see any difference outside nor I do see anything astonishing or bigger, but I am seeing God in everybody" this is a yogi's saying. Just imagine, she is just 28 and she is already in eternal bliss...now how many of we do are in that state? So many are anxiously waiting to that happen...but for her, it happened with simple meditation.
For her, it was possible bcoz Lagna Lord associated with Jupiter and 8th Lord sun is exalted and kethu in lagna just added to the cause, that's all. So, it is not true to say just by effort realization happens as without yoga, I do not think it wont happen in the native's lifetime.
Now moreover if Lagna Lord is saturn and if that has something to do with realization aspect, then I would term it as best bcoz there cannot be a better teacher than Saturn. If you see all other planets, it will give only outside things which will all perish, but as far as what I can feel, Saturn is not like that...it will take you through all planes and perfectly wipes you to so as you be the best when you are there.
Moreover, I have a doubt here regarding Atma Karaka. I have seen in this forum some is saying Sun is Atama Karaka and some is saying Mars is Atma Karaka....or is it Atma Karaka is different for each and every one according to his/her chart?
Regards,
Narayanan
dear narayan,
nice post, but you did not get my point.
what i am saying is that
-we have a certain combination of planets at the time of our birth
-these combinations are primarily due to our past life actions
-if our past life actions were inclined towards moksha, the planets
at the time of our birth in present life would indicate towards that
as there would be more combinations of spirituality in the chart.
-but how do you know whether we have a past life or not ?
-unless and until , we have first hand own experience of recalling past life, it would be fatalistic and false if we just assume this on the basis
of reading some spiritual texts or books.
-based on this fact (it is a fact as everything has to be encountered
and searched by us and experienced by us) we cant assume the role
of any planet in attaining moksha...
-because otherwise, we become slaves of planets. and then even moksha
becomes a prerogative of planetary effect.
-these are very contradictory statements(on one hand we talk about
eternity/merger with whole/whole merging into you, and on the other we confine this 'eternity' within planetary effects ??!!!)
-it has to be the other way round.
-if we work on it , our planets would change and if they dont we try anyway because we will get the result of our work someday or the other.
-responsibility of one's actions and acceptance of the result is the only
way to truthful life.
-living honestly and truthfully to oneself will ultimately lead to moksh
and increase intelligence(i am not talking about intelligence in context
to being a doctor here... i am talking about intelligence of self
enquiry ,as raman maharshi would tell to all his disciples to enquire
'who am i?')
-this intelligence is the result of living honestly and truthfully to
ONESELF and sometimes it can manifest in the form of a near
death experience, accident,loss of a loved one and sometimejust by living
a simple honest life.
i hope i am able to explain my previous post better.
vairagya
nice post, but you did not get my point.
what i am saying is that
-we have a certain combination of planets at the time of our birth
-these combinations are primarily due to our past life actions
-if our past life actions were inclined towards moksha, the planets
at the time of our birth in present life would indicate towards that
as there would be more combinations of spirituality in the chart.
-but how do you know whether we have a past life or not ?
-unless and until , we have first hand own experience of recalling past life, it would be fatalistic and false if we just assume this on the basis
of reading some spiritual texts or books.
-based on this fact (it is a fact as everything has to be encountered
and searched by us and experienced by us) we cant assume the role
of any planet in attaining moksha...
-because otherwise, we become slaves of planets. and then even moksha
becomes a prerogative of planetary effect.
-these are very contradictory statements(on one hand we talk about
eternity/merger with whole/whole merging into you, and on the other we confine this 'eternity' within planetary effects ??!!!)
-it has to be the other way round.
-if we work on it , our planets would change and if they dont we try anyway because we will get the result of our work someday or the other.
-responsibility of one's actions and acceptance of the result is the only
way to truthful life.
-living honestly and truthfully to oneself will ultimately lead to moksh
and increase intelligence(i am not talking about intelligence in context
to being a doctor here... i am talking about intelligence of self
enquiry ,as raman maharshi would tell to all his disciples to enquire
'who am i?')
-this intelligence is the result of living honestly and truthfully to
ONESELF and sometimes it can manifest in the form of a near
death experience, accident,loss of a loved one and sometimejust by living
a simple honest life.
i hope i am able to explain my previous post better.
vairagya
Dear Vairagya:
I think you did not get me...I think so....What I said is put your effort, but not for realization to happen but to make the mind calm and just to make the 6 enemies inside us to be under one's control. I did not say that you need not put effort....but apart from effort, you need to have yoga for realization as per astrological chart. It is not a thing to be obtained by any effort....first of all please kindly understand this....
Your post "it is a fact as everything has to be encountered and searched by us and experienced by us" I didn't got the concept at all.
Searching and encountering, what is this...? It seems to be a bit too much. I think you have not understood the concept at all. Dear Variagya, please do not talk like this to wise people because they will keep laughing if you talk like this.....I can understand bcoz for you it is something missing and to be encountered...etc..etc... Bcoz, when you are already in that, talking of something missing and encountering is ridiculous....so you have to use the words carefully to wise men.
When there is absolutely no "Chitta Vriti" and mind becomes clear, realization happens. I mean it can happen only when there is no worldly activites as the world is in mind. Mind is the body of the soul, as simple as that. After the death, this soul carries the vasanas of the mind along with it before entering into another body.
That is why Lord Krishna in Bhagvad Gita says "Mana Yeva Manushyanam Karanam Bandha Mochayoho" meaning mind is the only cause or concern for human beings to get entangled in bondage and to get rid of bondage. Here Lord Krishna has used the word terrifically using "Yeva" meaning "only"
We all encounter near to that state daily when we are sleep when the mind also goes and becomes one in Sushupti.....that is why we are not able to recognize anything in deep sleep nor knowing this world. I hope this will make you more clear.
But this state is beyond Sushupti...the fourth state Thuriya...only God wish you can have realization. But still the fourth state, Atma is just an observer...it does nothing...Lalitha Saharasnamam says "Jagrath Swapna Sushiptinam Sakshi Boothiye Namo Namah"
I know some people like the girl who I encountered took only little effort....but she is in absolute state right now bcoz of planets supporting her that much whereas I also know people who without that yoga keeps on trying and trying putting lot of effort like for a missing thing. I repeat I never said "effort is not at all required" and I also repeat effort is required to overcome the weaknesses viz mind and the 6 enemies inside us..viz...kama, krodha, lobha, moha, matha, and masarya associated with the mind.
When I say overcoming, you have to be an observer and watch it play their own games and hence not get affected. Realization is not a thing that can happen with effort. This is not my word...I am quoting from the texts of wise and realized souls. I do not know how to make more liberal than this. Please kindly execuse.
Thanks,
Narayan
I think you did not get me...I think so....What I said is put your effort, but not for realization to happen but to make the mind calm and just to make the 6 enemies inside us to be under one's control. I did not say that you need not put effort....but apart from effort, you need to have yoga for realization as per astrological chart. It is not a thing to be obtained by any effort....first of all please kindly understand this....
Your post "it is a fact as everything has to be encountered and searched by us and experienced by us" I didn't got the concept at all.
Searching and encountering, what is this...? It seems to be a bit too much. I think you have not understood the concept at all. Dear Variagya, please do not talk like this to wise people because they will keep laughing if you talk like this.....I can understand bcoz for you it is something missing and to be encountered...etc..etc... Bcoz, when you are already in that, talking of something missing and encountering is ridiculous....so you have to use the words carefully to wise men.
When there is absolutely no "Chitta Vriti" and mind becomes clear, realization happens. I mean it can happen only when there is no worldly activites as the world is in mind. Mind is the body of the soul, as simple as that. After the death, this soul carries the vasanas of the mind along with it before entering into another body.
That is why Lord Krishna in Bhagvad Gita says "Mana Yeva Manushyanam Karanam Bandha Mochayoho" meaning mind is the only cause or concern for human beings to get entangled in bondage and to get rid of bondage. Here Lord Krishna has used the word terrifically using "Yeva" meaning "only"
We all encounter near to that state daily when we are sleep when the mind also goes and becomes one in Sushupti.....that is why we are not able to recognize anything in deep sleep nor knowing this world. I hope this will make you more clear.
But this state is beyond Sushupti...the fourth state Thuriya...only God wish you can have realization. But still the fourth state, Atma is just an observer...it does nothing...Lalitha Saharasnamam says "Jagrath Swapna Sushiptinam Sakshi Boothiye Namo Namah"
I know some people like the girl who I encountered took only little effort....but she is in absolute state right now bcoz of planets supporting her that much whereas I also know people who without that yoga keeps on trying and trying putting lot of effort like for a missing thing. I repeat I never said "effort is not at all required" and I also repeat effort is required to overcome the weaknesses viz mind and the 6 enemies inside us..viz...kama, krodha, lobha, moha, matha, and masarya associated with the mind.
When I say overcoming, you have to be an observer and watch it play their own games and hence not get affected. Realization is not a thing that can happen with effort. This is not my word...I am quoting from the texts of wise and realized souls. I do not know how to make more liberal than this. Please kindly execuse.
Thanks,
Narayan
dear narayan,
interesting reply. i dont know sanskrit hence dont know the translation
but i accept your version.
i am not arguing for the sake of it but yes, i can tell you that i am saying the same thing as you are.
meditation is the key.
-when you say that you are quoting wise souls and texts, that isnt your own experience or is it?
are you enlightened?
by these texts or from a guru, we can take hints and work on it based
on our faith and the outcome would depend on our actions.
why then would gautama budh or mahavir would do tapasya?
budha did tapasya and it was very hard. after many years finally
he decided that enough is enough when he became so weak that he couldnt
even pass a light stream of river.
he just took some kheer (he had been starving himself till then) and let go and slept under a tree and got enlightened.
-but he still insisted on meditation for his disciples.
-this means we have to work ourselves and this was buddhas last message too
-BE A LIGHT UNTO YOURSELF'.
-when you say that be an observer of mind, it is right.
but how?
meditation is the only way to be an observer.
another name for meditation is 'no mind' or 'total awareness' or whatever.
there are numerous ways of meditation and can be done even while
working with full awareness towards all including mind.
-i will tell you a story of awareness.
once, when SHIVAPURI BABA, an enlightened soul who lived in hills
of himalayas(and lived over 150 years...there is documentary proof)
was travelling in train with a lot of cash presented to him by a rich merchant
of benares, an english lady travelling in same compartment excepting him, who saw the cash, asked him to give
that to him(this is pre-independence of india) or else she would pull the chain and tell that he tried to rape her.
shivpuri baba heard it and pretended that he is deaf and gave her
a currency note and pen and asked her to write on it.
when she did write the threat, he took the note and told her laughing
"now pull the chain !!! "
-as far as your comment on sushupti, please understand that that is
not by our own effort . sushupti becomes turiya when you are
an observer even while sleeping.
another name for turiya is samadhi.
when observer becomes the observed ,that is merging with the soul
or soul merging inot you as it is the same.
-i must have read almost all texts available (not in sanskrit though)
from upanishads,geeta,japji sahib,jinn sutra(mahavir) , vigyan bhairav
or what not.
and still do but it is just a help but in no way i am wise
because all what is said is not my personal experience even though
i am trying since many years and stayed in forests and ashrams
for meditation for a long part.
i hope i am not offending...we are friends
vairagya
interesting reply. i dont know sanskrit hence dont know the translation
but i accept your version.
i am not arguing for the sake of it but yes, i can tell you that i am saying the same thing as you are.
meditation is the key.
-when you say that you are quoting wise souls and texts, that isnt your own experience or is it?
are you enlightened?
by these texts or from a guru, we can take hints and work on it based
on our faith and the outcome would depend on our actions.
why then would gautama budh or mahavir would do tapasya?
budha did tapasya and it was very hard. after many years finally
he decided that enough is enough when he became so weak that he couldnt
even pass a light stream of river.
he just took some kheer (he had been starving himself till then) and let go and slept under a tree and got enlightened.
-but he still insisted on meditation for his disciples.
-this means we have to work ourselves and this was buddhas last message too
-BE A LIGHT UNTO YOURSELF'.
-when you say that be an observer of mind, it is right.
but how?
meditation is the only way to be an observer.
another name for meditation is 'no mind' or 'total awareness' or whatever.
there are numerous ways of meditation and can be done even while
working with full awareness towards all including mind.
-i will tell you a story of awareness.
once, when SHIVAPURI BABA, an enlightened soul who lived in hills
of himalayas(and lived over 150 years...there is documentary proof)
was travelling in train with a lot of cash presented to him by a rich merchant
of benares, an english lady travelling in same compartment excepting him, who saw the cash, asked him to give
that to him(this is pre-independence of india) or else she would pull the chain and tell that he tried to rape her.
shivpuri baba heard it and pretended that he is deaf and gave her
a currency note and pen and asked her to write on it.
when she did write the threat, he took the note and told her laughing
"now pull the chain !!! "
-as far as your comment on sushupti, please understand that that is
not by our own effort . sushupti becomes turiya when you are
an observer even while sleeping.
another name for turiya is samadhi.
when observer becomes the observed ,that is merging with the soul
or soul merging inot you as it is the same.
-i must have read almost all texts available (not in sanskrit though)
from upanishads,geeta,japji sahib,jinn sutra(mahavir) , vigyan bhairav
or what not.
and still do but it is just a help but in no way i am wise
because all what is said is not my personal experience even though
i am trying since many years and stayed in forests and ashrams
for meditation for a long part.
i hope i am not offending...we are friends
vairagya
Dear Rajithaji:
I said it only for realization aspect and not for business. Why I told about that it can happen only on its own is bcoz realization is a state which is beyond, mind, senses, intelligence, or for that matter intellect. Now, the thing which is beyond the perceptions or imaginations or intuitions or mindly aspect, do yout think one can be in that state with effort without yoga in this lifetime?. If I am correct, Anupamji has stated this in some thread that yoga is important as well as effort.
If one can be in that state like writing exams or whatever, the purpose of this nature will be over. For that God's grace is very very vital.
Effort or meditation is required...but without yoga it might not serve "in this life time" is what I said....it might happen after taking another body. Please note efforts without desire is more important and carrying on without expecting anything from him other than him is very vital...so that attitude, will bear fruits at sometime. Efforts will not go waste..but don't expect to happen in this lifetime itself if one does not have yoga.
Even if realization happens, it is not that one's journey in this lifetime will completely get over.
Here one important point to be noted is that one should carry on his/her duties without having an eye on result especially when it comes to realization...bcoz if one keeps thinking of fruit, it becomes a desire which involves the mind. Lord Krishna reiterates this to Arjuna which all of you might be knowing "Karmaneyavadikarasathe Ma Phaleshu Kadachana." "Do your duty, do not expect fruits"
When it is beyond mind, unless God wills, do you think it can happen simply by meditation or effort? It should happen on its own and as per the nature and will happen one day for all. Unless the karma is over even for a realized soul, he/she will have to get into another body. Nobody has any right here to finish his/her own karma other than God himself as he is one who can do this.
Regards,
Narayanan
I said it only for realization aspect and not for business. Why I told about that it can happen only on its own is bcoz realization is a state which is beyond, mind, senses, intelligence, or for that matter intellect. Now, the thing which is beyond the perceptions or imaginations or intuitions or mindly aspect, do yout think one can be in that state with effort without yoga in this lifetime?. If I am correct, Anupamji has stated this in some thread that yoga is important as well as effort.
If one can be in that state like writing exams or whatever, the purpose of this nature will be over. For that God's grace is very very vital.
Effort or meditation is required...but without yoga it might not serve "in this life time" is what I said....it might happen after taking another body. Please note efforts without desire is more important and carrying on without expecting anything from him other than him is very vital...so that attitude, will bear fruits at sometime. Efforts will not go waste..but don't expect to happen in this lifetime itself if one does not have yoga.
Even if realization happens, it is not that one's journey in this lifetime will completely get over.
Here one important point to be noted is that one should carry on his/her duties without having an eye on result especially when it comes to realization...bcoz if one keeps thinking of fruit, it becomes a desire which involves the mind. Lord Krishna reiterates this to Arjuna which all of you might be knowing "Karmaneyavadikarasathe Ma Phaleshu Kadachana." "Do your duty, do not expect fruits"
When it is beyond mind, unless God wills, do you think it can happen simply by meditation or effort? It should happen on its own and as per the nature and will happen one day for all. Unless the karma is over even for a realized soul, he/she will have to get into another body. Nobody has any right here to finish his/her own karma other than God himself as he is one who can do this.
Regards,
Narayanan
yes rajitha,
you are right. there is no way except working on oursleves.
and i feel narayan is just too much into priesthood (punditji)
they all know sanskrit very well and temporary meanings which make
little sense.
when krishna tells arjun that do you duty and dont expect fruits,
the meaning is not as simple as it looks like.
we forget that
krishna is speaking from another plane of highest consciousness
to arjuna who is like us and in duality.
how is it possible to do duty without expecting fruits without being in
a state of bliss and samadhi ?
it is possible for krishna and he is speaking from that state.
not for us.
we have to use all our energy till the last drop for the purpose of moksha.
it can be at the cost of death too.
the result is obtained by divine grace .because the throne is out of reach
of our hardwork but possible only by our hardwork.
if we depend too much on karma and yoga theory, it is an endless cycle.
it is fatalistic.
i will tell you a story of buddha related to astrology:
once a reknowned astrologer was walking along a river bank and saw
footsteps of buddha.
he studied them and went to a nearby tree under which buddha was
sitting.
the astrologer told him that he saw the footstpes of a man and
he told buddha that these are of a very big king of the world ... where is he?
buddha told him that these are his footsteps,to which astrolger challenged
that it is not possible because buddha was in torn clothes and without
possessions.
at this point buddha told him to check his feet and then told him that
he knows that this astrologer was very learned and among best in the
world, but astrology works only on people who are not yet in the
path of moksha.
after that astrology starts working less and when somebody attains
nirvana, astrology cant work on that soul because he is free from all
bondages.
i hope this is interesting
vairagya
you are right. there is no way except working on oursleves.
and i feel narayan is just too much into priesthood (punditji)
they all know sanskrit very well and temporary meanings which make
little sense.
when krishna tells arjun that do you duty and dont expect fruits,
the meaning is not as simple as it looks like.
we forget that
krishna is speaking from another plane of highest consciousness
to arjuna who is like us and in duality.
how is it possible to do duty without expecting fruits without being in
a state of bliss and samadhi ?
it is possible for krishna and he is speaking from that state.
not for us.
we have to use all our energy till the last drop for the purpose of moksha.
it can be at the cost of death too.
the result is obtained by divine grace .because the throne is out of reach
of our hardwork but possible only by our hardwork.
if we depend too much on karma and yoga theory, it is an endless cycle.
it is fatalistic.
i will tell you a story of buddha related to astrology:
once a reknowned astrologer was walking along a river bank and saw
footsteps of buddha.
he studied them and went to a nearby tree under which buddha was
sitting.
the astrologer told him that he saw the footstpes of a man and
he told buddha that these are of a very big king of the world ... where is he?
buddha told him that these are his footsteps,to which astrolger challenged
that it is not possible because buddha was in torn clothes and without
possessions.
at this point buddha told him to check his feet and then told him that
he knows that this astrologer was very learned and among best in the
world, but astrology works only on people who are not yet in the
path of moksha.
after that astrology starts working less and when somebody attains
nirvana, astrology cant work on that soul because he is free from all
bondages.
i hope this is interesting
vairagya
exactly gopal,
everything should be experienced by us .
knowing few shlokas of sanskrit is useless unless we want to go to the
essence of it and the essence is only through living honest life(to oneself) and
honest life will ultimately lead one to meditation or bhakti (buddha or meera)
psychologists like freud and many have concluded that we use only
2 or 3 % of our conscious minds in our entire life and they also conclude that
we have 90% subconscious and 10% conscious minds.
even people like einstein couldnt reach that 10% usage and most of his
inventions were made in moments of no-mind states (he discovered
theory of universe while playing with soap bubbles in bathroom ,while
taking bath in tub)...that is when he could accidentally connect to
subconscious minds.... i am just saying that its a huge ,mysterious world
out there... and beyond that too. but we have to work on that.
'sitaron ke paar ,jahaan aur bhi hain'
and i beg to say, there is no kaliyug . things were bad even in rama's
days when women were sold as slaves. .. in mahabharata times
when you could gamble your wife too.
these talks of kaliyug are all the work of mischievous pundits and many
astrologers, who make us feel that we are doomed.
there are always enlightened people in the world and if you are ready,
they would be present in your life to guide you...and i am saying this from my own
experience (wouldnt disclose more as it stands to bragging)
have fun friend
vairagya
everything should be experienced by us .
knowing few shlokas of sanskrit is useless unless we want to go to the
essence of it and the essence is only through living honest life(to oneself) and
honest life will ultimately lead one to meditation or bhakti (buddha or meera)
psychologists like freud and many have concluded that we use only
2 or 3 % of our conscious minds in our entire life and they also conclude that
we have 90% subconscious and 10% conscious minds.
even people like einstein couldnt reach that 10% usage and most of his
inventions were made in moments of no-mind states (he discovered
theory of universe while playing with soap bubbles in bathroom ,while
taking bath in tub)...that is when he could accidentally connect to
subconscious minds.... i am just saying that its a huge ,mysterious world
out there... and beyond that too. but we have to work on that.
'sitaron ke paar ,jahaan aur bhi hain'
and i beg to say, there is no kaliyug . things were bad even in rama's
days when women were sold as slaves. .. in mahabharata times
when you could gamble your wife too.
these talks of kaliyug are all the work of mischievous pundits and many
astrologers, who make us feel that we are doomed.
there are always enlightened people in the world and if you are ready,
they would be present in your life to guide you...and i am saying this from my own
experience (wouldnt disclose more as it stands to bragging)
have fun friend
vairagya
these talks of kaliyug made by priests, fake gurus is the only way for
them to exploit people because its very easy to fool people in
the garb of spiritual guilt.
in this discussion board, we have some beautiful people and some
priests.
i dont like priests because they dont practise what they preach or else
there wouldnt be a need to preach.
it is my best pastime to confront preasts..... and the fun part is they
just stop discussion when i come and ask valid questions... why ?
love vairagya
them to exploit people because its very easy to fool people in
the garb of spiritual guilt.
in this discussion board, we have some beautiful people and some
priests.
i dont like priests because they dont practise what they preach or else
there wouldnt be a need to preach.
it is my best pastime to confront preasts..... and the fun part is they
just stop discussion when i come and ask valid questions... why ?
love vairagya
dear bharat,
i am a friend and please dont address me as sir.
as for your questions:
1- i dont recall exactly where and which context i am referring to, when i said
women were sold as slaves during rama's days but i have a remebrnce
of this because this incident relates to those times as i read it and it hurt me.
2-anyways, forget about it. just tell me , how was it any better than today.
seeta was asked to perform agni test to prove her chastity when she was won over back from ravana. why ?
even rama was alone and living without his wife during those times.
why didnt he give agni pariksha?
even he could have committd adultery.
this means adultery was allowed to men but not women.
is this not slavery to women ?
3-kalyug: please read my posts carefully.
i am just saying that kalyug or any yug , these are what we read from scriptures and books.
when anybody goes in the path of spirituality, the first and foremost thing
is honesty towards oneself.
and that means that anything ,you dont have personal experience of,
you take it as false or maybe an idea.
how can you believe anything without personal experience ?
what is the guarantee that scriptures are not wrong ?
reading scriptures and concluding that we are wise is just like
reading books to become a doctor and think we are wise.
wisdom has nothing to do with outside knowledge....it has to be
our own experience.
what is the guarantee that even vedic astrology is not complete/lost somewhere in history/all wrong ?
these things can come out only if we work out on truth .
vairagya
i am a friend and please dont address me as sir.
as for your questions:
1- i dont recall exactly where and which context i am referring to, when i said
women were sold as slaves during rama's days but i have a remebrnce
of this because this incident relates to those times as i read it and it hurt me.
2-anyways, forget about it. just tell me , how was it any better than today.
seeta was asked to perform agni test to prove her chastity when she was won over back from ravana. why ?
even rama was alone and living without his wife during those times.
why didnt he give agni pariksha?
even he could have committd adultery.
this means adultery was allowed to men but not women.
is this not slavery to women ?
3-kalyug: please read my posts carefully.
i am just saying that kalyug or any yug , these are what we read from scriptures and books.
when anybody goes in the path of spirituality, the first and foremost thing
is honesty towards oneself.
and that means that anything ,you dont have personal experience of,
you take it as false or maybe an idea.
how can you believe anything without personal experience ?
what is the guarantee that scriptures are not wrong ?
reading scriptures and concluding that we are wise is just like
reading books to become a doctor and think we are wise.
wisdom has nothing to do with outside knowledge....it has to be
our own experience.
what is the guarantee that even vedic astrology is not complete/lost somewhere in history/all wrong ?
these things can come out only if we work out on truth .
vairagya
