Dear All,
Why is it said that SUICIDE should never be contemplated at any cost and that life should be lived what ever maybe thrown at you? But what if the pain and disgrace was 2 much for a human being to bear ? How should it be viewed then?
"Curse thee, Life, I will live with thee no more!
Thou hast mocked me, starved me, beat my body sore!
And all for a pledge that was not pledged by me,
I have kissed thy crust and eaten sparingly
That I might eat again, and met thy sneers
With deprecations, and thy blows with tears,—
Aye, from thy glutted lash, glad, crawled away,
As if spent passion were a holiday!
And now I go. Nor threat, nor easy vow
Of tardy kindness can avail thee now
With me, whence fear and faith alike are flown;
Lonely I came, and I depart alone,
And know not where nor unto whom I go;
But that thou canst not follow me I know."
regards,
rose
Suicide:Why is it considered a sin?
Forum rules
READ Forum-Wide Rules and Guidelines NOTICE: OFFENSIVE POSTS WILL BE DELETED, AND OFFENDERS WILL HAVE ALL POSTS MODERATED.
READ Forum-Wide Rules and Guidelines NOTICE: OFFENSIVE POSTS WILL BE DELETED, AND OFFENDERS WILL HAVE ALL POSTS MODERATED.
Dear Rosy Rose:
If everyone who suffers is to committ suicide, the world population would become may be 2 percent of what it is?
We are all created by God and if u are a believer of Karma theory, we cannot escape karma. If one ends his life, he will be born in another janma to complete the balance of that life. Apart from that man has no right to end his life, which is God given. Further he causes immense pain to his parents friends and relatives when he does so. In fact some relatives may even die of shock, especially mother, if not they would not live happily from then on till they breathe their last. So he should not committ suicide on any account.
Mercy killing is different altogether, and may be allowed when the person's suffering is not bearable by any of his close ones.
Dev
If everyone who suffers is to committ suicide, the world population would become may be 2 percent of what it is?
We are all created by God and if u are a believer of Karma theory, we cannot escape karma. If one ends his life, he will be born in another janma to complete the balance of that life. Apart from that man has no right to end his life, which is God given. Further he causes immense pain to his parents friends and relatives when he does so. In fact some relatives may even die of shock, especially mother, if not they would not live happily from then on till they breathe their last. So he should not committ suicide on any account.
Mercy killing is different altogether, and may be allowed when the person's suffering is not bearable by any of his close ones.
Dev
-
roseyrose
Dear Dev and friends,
See....the karma theory works and works big time..but what if astrologically the cause of death was to be self annihilation aka suicide...then why does one reconcile that? it was one's karma to do that and so that person did it...
In Japan, there is the ceremonial Harakiri and in modern times kamikaze.....in India women commit Sati so that their honour is maintained..so many forms of community honour to keep up and maintain...and even at that time there were killings...
The only two facts of life that are constant for any human in birth and death....if birth and how birth would be is also predestined , death and how death happens is also by extension pre destined, is it not ?
And if the horoscope is a blueprint of our karmas and we start with one certainty, birth , the other certainty death is also encoded there, am i correct ?
I have never been able to understand this astrologically...are there astro indications for this?
thanks and regards,
rose
See....the karma theory works and works big time..but what if astrologically the cause of death was to be self annihilation aka suicide...then why does one reconcile that? it was one's karma to do that and so that person did it...
In Japan, there is the ceremonial Harakiri and in modern times kamikaze.....in India women commit Sati so that their honour is maintained..so many forms of community honour to keep up and maintain...and even at that time there were killings...
The only two facts of life that are constant for any human in birth and death....if birth and how birth would be is also predestined , death and how death happens is also by extension pre destined, is it not ?
And if the horoscope is a blueprint of our karmas and we start with one certainty, birth , the other certainty death is also encoded there, am i correct ?
I have never been able to understand this astrologically...are there astro indications for this?
thanks and regards,
rose
Dear Rosy Rose:
if astrologically the cause of death was to be self annihilation aka suicide...then why does one reconcile that?
I am not sure but it is general belief that suicides are not indicated in horoscope though tendencies for suicide are indicated. The thought of suicide is momentary and if only the person who attempts suicide is saved, he would never try it again.
In Japan, suicide rates are high. Sati is not existent in India any more.
The only two facts of life that are constant for any human in birth and death....if birth and how birth would be is also predestined , death and how death happens is also by extension pre destined, is it not ?
Very good question but I dont think suicide is predestined. May be humans are given some free will and some chose that to committ suicide.
And if the horoscope is a blueprint of our karmas and we start with one certainty, birth , the other certainty death is also encoded there, am i correct ?
Aboslutely
I have never been able to understand this astrologically...are there astro indications for this?
Moon is connected to the mind. So conjunction of moon with malefics or aspect of malefics without any benefic aspects may give rise to such feelings for sure. Everything is moon based since it determines the frame of mind. One's moon should never be afflicted. If heavily afflicted, noone can judge their true nature since it would change every moment.
Rose, u have raised a pertinent question and I hope u would get more elaborate answers.
Dev
if astrologically the cause of death was to be self annihilation aka suicide...then why does one reconcile that?
I am not sure but it is general belief that suicides are not indicated in horoscope though tendencies for suicide are indicated. The thought of suicide is momentary and if only the person who attempts suicide is saved, he would never try it again.
In Japan, suicide rates are high. Sati is not existent in India any more.
The only two facts of life that are constant for any human in birth and death....if birth and how birth would be is also predestined , death and how death happens is also by extension pre destined, is it not ?
Very good question but I dont think suicide is predestined. May be humans are given some free will and some chose that to committ suicide.
And if the horoscope is a blueprint of our karmas and we start with one certainty, birth , the other certainty death is also encoded there, am i correct ?
Aboslutely
I have never been able to understand this astrologically...are there astro indications for this?
Moon is connected to the mind. So conjunction of moon with malefics or aspect of malefics without any benefic aspects may give rise to such feelings for sure. Everything is moon based since it determines the frame of mind. One's moon should never be afflicted. If heavily afflicted, noone can judge their true nature since it would change every moment.
Rose, u have raised a pertinent question and I hope u would get more elaborate answers.
Dev
-
suniti
Hi Rose
very interesting topic,
i dont know about the astrological part of this and am interested to hear some answers,
but what i wanted to say is that according to shastra there are a few ways of commiting suicide that are not considered sin, though you probably already knew that
just thought i'd throw it out there
suniti
"Only God says jump,
So I set the time
'Cause if he ever saw it
It was through these eyes of mine!
And if he ever suffered it was me who did his crying."
concrete blonde
very interesting topic,
i dont know about the astrological part of this and am interested to hear some answers,
but what i wanted to say is that according to shastra there are a few ways of commiting suicide that are not considered sin, though you probably already knew that
just thought i'd throw it out there
suniti
"Only God says jump,
So I set the time
'Cause if he ever saw it
It was through these eyes of mine!
And if he ever suffered it was me who did his crying."
concrete blonde
-
roseyrose
Dear Dev,
I am not sure but it is general belief that suicides are not indicated in horoscope though tendencies for suicide are indicated. The thought of suicide is momentary and if only the person who attempts suicide is saved, he would never try it again.
I believe that it is indicated whether one would die of poison , weapon etc...The horoscope even details out every minute thing..but the problem is to have the knowledge for such an analysis
In Japan, suicide rates are high. Sati is not existent in India any more.
do not think that roop kanwar saga is that quickly forgotten.....the point is that every norm deteoriates after a point of time to soemthing that is not understood and thus is misused..suicides are high everywhere in the world now...
The only two facts of life that are constant for any human in birth and death....if birth and how birth would be is also predestined , death and how death happens is also by extension pre destined, is it not ?
Very good question but I dont think suicide is predestined. May be humans are given some free will and some chose that to committ suicide.
And if the horoscope is a blueprint of our karmas and we start with one certainty, birth , the other certainty death is also encoded there, am i correct ?
Aboslutely
but do we need to decode this certainty of death and understand it is another matter altogether....
Rose, u have raised a pertinent question and I hope u would get more elaborate answers.
me 2 Dev...it is very intresting for me to understand this...thanx
regards,
rose
I am not sure but it is general belief that suicides are not indicated in horoscope though tendencies for suicide are indicated. The thought of suicide is momentary and if only the person who attempts suicide is saved, he would never try it again.
I believe that it is indicated whether one would die of poison , weapon etc...The horoscope even details out every minute thing..but the problem is to have the knowledge for such an analysis
In Japan, suicide rates are high. Sati is not existent in India any more.
do not think that roop kanwar saga is that quickly forgotten.....the point is that every norm deteoriates after a point of time to soemthing that is not understood and thus is misused..suicides are high everywhere in the world now...
The only two facts of life that are constant for any human in birth and death....if birth and how birth would be is also predestined , death and how death happens is also by extension pre destined, is it not ?
Very good question but I dont think suicide is predestined. May be humans are given some free will and some chose that to committ suicide.
And if the horoscope is a blueprint of our karmas and we start with one certainty, birth , the other certainty death is also encoded there, am i correct ?
Aboslutely
but do we need to decode this certainty of death and understand it is another matter altogether....
Rose, u have raised a pertinent question and I hope u would get more elaborate answers.
me 2 Dev...it is very intresting for me to understand this...thanx
regards,
rose
-
roseyrose
Dear Suniti,
regards,
rose
can you elaborate on them please ? i know some but u seem to have gone deep so if you can tell me that would add to my knowledge..suniti wrote:Hi Rose
very interesting topic,
i dont know about the astrological part of this and am interested to hear some answers,
but what i wanted to say is that according to shastra there are a few ways of commiting suicide that are not considered sin, though you probably already knew that
just thought i'd throw it out there
suniti
regards,
rose
Dear Rosy Rose,
It is indicated whether one would die of poison , weapon etc...The horoscope even details out every minute thing..but the problem is to have the knowledge for such an analysis
I have to probably agree with u on this. It is quite complex and is likely to be known only to expert astrologers. Further they may not reveal it to the person. When the person is smiling and is in a good mood, imagine the astrologer telling him.' u would hang yourself to death in 3 years time from now'. It would not look decent on his part even if he knows. At the most, they would say, he could get into depression and should be careful about it.
suicides are high everywhere in the world now...
Very true. Imagine even being normal, when we have remote in our hand, see how many channels we keep on changing in a minute's time to watch programs in TV. We are unable to concentrate even for a minute on one thing. Then imagine a highly depressed soul. His situation would be pathetic.
Rose, in this kali yuga, mental peace is what is not seen for many. Money is there but it cannot buy even a nanogram of mental peace and it cannot bring father's and mother's love.
do we need to decode this certainty of death and understand it is another matter altogether....
Yes, noone would want to know that he would committ suicide and die since he would not have decided when he is showing his horoscope to an astrologer that he has to go back home after this and hang himself. It is a feeling which can be generated in a moment making one forget all the happenings and enjoyments before. This feeling is triggered in a microsecond which eclipses all other good feelings like rahu eclipsing moon.
Rose, u have very good understanding of these subjects and astrology too. You seem to have an analytical brain
. Hope we get more answers. Each question raised here in this forum benefits all of us in increasing our knowledge for sure. Thanks to this forum which benefits one and all.
Dev
It is indicated whether one would die of poison , weapon etc...The horoscope even details out every minute thing..but the problem is to have the knowledge for such an analysis
I have to probably agree with u on this. It is quite complex and is likely to be known only to expert astrologers. Further they may not reveal it to the person. When the person is smiling and is in a good mood, imagine the astrologer telling him.' u would hang yourself to death in 3 years time from now'. It would not look decent on his part even if he knows. At the most, they would say, he could get into depression and should be careful about it.
suicides are high everywhere in the world now...
Very true. Imagine even being normal, when we have remote in our hand, see how many channels we keep on changing in a minute's time to watch programs in TV. We are unable to concentrate even for a minute on one thing. Then imagine a highly depressed soul. His situation would be pathetic.
Rose, in this kali yuga, mental peace is what is not seen for many. Money is there but it cannot buy even a nanogram of mental peace and it cannot bring father's and mother's love.
do we need to decode this certainty of death and understand it is another matter altogether....
Yes, noone would want to know that he would committ suicide and die since he would not have decided when he is showing his horoscope to an astrologer that he has to go back home after this and hang himself. It is a feeling which can be generated in a moment making one forget all the happenings and enjoyments before. This feeling is triggered in a microsecond which eclipses all other good feelings like rahu eclipsing moon.
Rose, u have very good understanding of these subjects and astrology too. You seem to have an analytical brain
. Hope we get more answers. Each question raised here in this forum benefits all of us in increasing our knowledge for sure. Thanks to this forum which benefits one and all.Dev
-
suniti
hi Rose!
i don't know much but from what i've read one way that does not incur paap is to ingest ghee, one liter (this seems to be done in cases where one's Guru is blasphemed) i will have to go through to find out exactly where that is approved, will check manu smriti, i'm not sure it may come in that.
The second way is to (prayopavesha) fasting until death. In Ramayana the part where Hanumanji's group feels despair as they cannot find Sitaji feels that they have let down Shri Ram and plan on fasting to death (Hanumanji was not a part of this discussion this is before Jamvant tells him his powers) This is an approved method. I don't know whether this episode is present in all versions of Ramayan it is there in Tulsi Ramayan and Adhyatma for sure. Prayopavesha is also there in other cases like Parikshit's story. I would again have to research because my minds a bit dusty about this stuff.
But prayopavesha is very difficult and cannot be done on a whim, or in a temporary fit of depression because it takes time i think and is a great tapas. But death itself is such a mystery theres a saying that refers to the Prana as bird in cage with all 9 doors open and how strange that it stays inside at all!
One that i have a question about is i have seen people commit suicide in haridwar by drowning in Ganga. This im not sure about. I would think She's paapaharini so she would remove any sins but i don't know of any shastra to back that up.
Sorry for lacking shastric back-up, if you need it though i can find out exactly.there may be other members on the forum as well who can tell exactly.
Om
suniti
i don't know much but from what i've read one way that does not incur paap is to ingest ghee, one liter (this seems to be done in cases where one's Guru is blasphemed) i will have to go through to find out exactly where that is approved, will check manu smriti, i'm not sure it may come in that.
The second way is to (prayopavesha) fasting until death. In Ramayana the part where Hanumanji's group feels despair as they cannot find Sitaji feels that they have let down Shri Ram and plan on fasting to death (Hanumanji was not a part of this discussion this is before Jamvant tells him his powers) This is an approved method. I don't know whether this episode is present in all versions of Ramayan it is there in Tulsi Ramayan and Adhyatma for sure. Prayopavesha is also there in other cases like Parikshit's story. I would again have to research because my minds a bit dusty about this stuff.
But prayopavesha is very difficult and cannot be done on a whim, or in a temporary fit of depression because it takes time i think and is a great tapas. But death itself is such a mystery theres a saying that refers to the Prana as bird in cage with all 9 doors open and how strange that it stays inside at all!
One that i have a question about is i have seen people commit suicide in haridwar by drowning in Ganga. This im not sure about. I would think She's paapaharini so she would remove any sins but i don't know of any shastra to back that up.
Sorry for lacking shastric back-up, if you need it though i can find out exactly.there may be other members on the forum as well who can tell exactly.
Om
suniti
Last edited by suniti on 19 Jan 2011, edited 1 time in total.
-
roseyrose
Dear Dev,
Rose, in this kali yuga, mental peace is what is not seen for many. Money is there but it cannot buy even a nanogram of mental peace and it cannot bring father's and mother's love.
so true Dev..no nanogram of mental peace..we need to contrast ourselves so much with other's achievements and our family pressurises also..and there is our ambitions also..so the cycle becomes positively mind boggling..in all these ..who even knows that, the thing they are so madly running after may never give them happiness
This feeling is triggered in a microsecond which eclipses all other good feelings like rahu eclipsing moon.
u are dead before you are dead
Each question raised here in this forum benefits all of us in increasing our knowledge for sure.
so true...in think what happens is that u start with astrology,vedas,vedanta, the whole works and at some pint of time u realise that these are just the tools.....if u have reached a state in which u can step away from the physical tools and do everything in mind maybe u become a daivajna...after that u will not even cast a horoscope bowing down to the ultimate wisdom of the almighty...
regards,
rose
Rose, in this kali yuga, mental peace is what is not seen for many. Money is there but it cannot buy even a nanogram of mental peace and it cannot bring father's and mother's love.
so true Dev..no nanogram of mental peace..we need to contrast ourselves so much with other's achievements and our family pressurises also..and there is our ambitions also..so the cycle becomes positively mind boggling..in all these ..who even knows that, the thing they are so madly running after may never give them happiness
This feeling is triggered in a microsecond which eclipses all other good feelings like rahu eclipsing moon.
u are dead before you are dead
Each question raised here in this forum benefits all of us in increasing our knowledge for sure.
so true...in think what happens is that u start with astrology,vedas,vedanta, the whole works and at some pint of time u realise that these are just the tools.....if u have reached a state in which u can step away from the physical tools and do everything in mind maybe u become a daivajna...after that u will not even cast a horoscope bowing down to the ultimate wisdom of the almighty...
regards,
rose
-
roseyrose
Dear Suniti,suniti wrote:hi Rose!
i don't know much but from what i've read one way that does not incur paap is to ingest ghee, one liter (this seems to be done in cases where one's Guru is blasphemed) i will have to go through to find out exactly where that is approved, will check manu smriti, i'm not sure it may come in that. The second way is to (prayopavesha) fasting until death. In Ramayana the part where Hanumanji's group feels despair as they cannot find Sitaji feels that they have let down Shri Ram and plan on fasting to death (Hanumanji was not a part of this discussion this is before Jamvant tells him his powers) This is an approved method.
suniti
why i had asked u this was that it would have been intresting to see the context, wrong done, prayaschita and then final verdict of undoing the karma by sacrificing urself...
there is a bunch of stories called Ithihyamala by Kottarathil Sankunni (Garland of Legends me thinks ok translation) which details out one intresting story...
There was a brahmin who was married but he became enamoured of another beautiful woman
so he being vedic,dharmic and all the nouns went on a trip to all the holy places in India...having a bath in ganges and all the sacred rivers.....he took his servant along with him and this servant had taken a raw betel nut and dipped it into river when the yajman was having his bath...having done his pan Indian tour, the yajman comes back completely satisfied that his sin has been wasjed off and he is a pure man now....so after the day he had come, he was having his usual pan and the servant had sliced the betel nut that he had dipped and had put it in the paan..
The yajman put the paan in his mouth and instantaneously in a flash he spit it out and started berating the servant with so many how dare us? the servant smiled and said that this was the betel nut that i had dipped in all the sacred rivers while u were taking prayaschit..so if ur sin wud have been washed away the betel nut would not have been so kadua...
the yajman understood his folly, fell at the servant's feet and asked that what is that i shud do ? he said..u shud make an metal image of the woman that u had lusted after, have a public gathering and say out loud what u had thought and committed in mind while the meatl image is being heated up...when it attains the melting point u shud go and embrace that moorthi and then only will ur this particular sin be over....
the servant was one of the famous parayipettu panthirakulam members ....
so for such a sin such a punishment..i think i have already made triple boarding passes to kumbipakam
regards,
rose
Dear Rosy Rose,
I think that when one has a relationship with another- be it love affair or friendship or relative, sometimes it can break and it takes just seconds to break. In kaliyuga, it breaks even more easily. See so many divorces happening even in India where once upon a time, divorces almost never happened and were looked down upon. Also with friends(so called), back stabbing happens very commonly now. And several people put their parents in old age homes, not realising the same may happen to them. Then there are several young graduates who go to US or elsewhere from India for jobs. Their parents are happy when they go and for few more years when they send money but later when the parents fall sick, they become so dejected that they realise their mistake but it is too late. The kids are not with them during their last days.
Also at our work place,we often dont find peace at office, that would be another frustration. So only way out in kali yuga is that we have to develop skills in painting, music, computer, yoga so that when work or business problems arise, these make up for that.
For eg, Rose, believe me, I can sing for 24 hours at a stretch without having even food.
I think this forum itself is good for learning astrology and even spirituality and for introverts who have noone around and for people who get cheated by most people. This forum also would be useful for depressed souls and for people with kemadruma yoga
what happens is that u start with astrology,vedas,vedanta, the whole works and at some pint of time u realise that these are just the tools.....if u have reached a state in which u can step away from the physical tools and do everything in mind maybe u become a daivajna...after that u will not even cast a horoscope bowing down to the ultimate wisdom of the almighty...
Rose, absolutely true. Perfect. I think you are already well forward in the path of soul searching .
Dev
I think that when one has a relationship with another- be it love affair or friendship or relative, sometimes it can break and it takes just seconds to break. In kaliyuga, it breaks even more easily. See so many divorces happening even in India where once upon a time, divorces almost never happened and were looked down upon. Also with friends(so called), back stabbing happens very commonly now. And several people put their parents in old age homes, not realising the same may happen to them. Then there are several young graduates who go to US or elsewhere from India for jobs. Their parents are happy when they go and for few more years when they send money but later when the parents fall sick, they become so dejected that they realise their mistake but it is too late. The kids are not with them during their last days.
Also at our work place,we often dont find peace at office, that would be another frustration. So only way out in kali yuga is that we have to develop skills in painting, music, computer, yoga so that when work or business problems arise, these make up for that.
For eg, Rose, believe me, I can sing for 24 hours at a stretch without having even food.
I think this forum itself is good for learning astrology and even spirituality and for introverts who have noone around and for people who get cheated by most people. This forum also would be useful for depressed souls and for people with kemadruma yoga
what happens is that u start with astrology,vedas,vedanta, the whole works and at some pint of time u realise that these are just the tools.....if u have reached a state in which u can step away from the physical tools and do everything in mind maybe u become a daivajna...after that u will not even cast a horoscope bowing down to the ultimate wisdom of the almighty...
Rose, absolutely true. Perfect. I think you are already well forward in the path of soul searching
.Dev
-
roseyrose
Dear Anupamji,anupam1968 wrote:Well, if I remember correctly then in 'Gospel of Ramakrishna' someone told him that one of his disciples has severed his throat and Ramakrishna in return, without a trash of any anguish, said happily so at last he has attained salvation in his own way. His logic was the aim of Gopal, just guessing the name, was to reach the abode of his Ishta and merge with him instead of ending his life due to any worldly woes. And we know Geeta says the last dominating thought in your mind, at the death bed, decides your next birth.
But I request other members please don't think it is another way to realisation
what you have said makes sense...so what is the definition of suicide that we are working with anyways ? and what is a sin and what is not?
regards,
rose
-
Abhijit Muhurta !!!
- Frequent Contributor
- Posts: 269
- Joined: 09 Nov 2010
Remembered a funny story based on the above theme.....And we know Geeta says the last dominating thought in your mind, at the death bed, decides your next birth.
goes as follows...There was a businessman in a town....once a sadhu was passing by his shop...the merchant asked him...sir..how do i get moksha ?
the sadhu replied..."in your death bed your last thought and words on your lips should be of god" saying this he left. The merchant gave this a lot of thought...and hit upon a plan..." any way when i am old and feeble i'll be calling on my children for help...so i'll name them on different gods."
He got married...ended up having 4 sons named them Rama,Shiva,Krishna,Hari....time passed by..his business grew....he got retired...his sons took over....and finally our man was on the death bed...and 3 sons were near him...the one in the shop got news of this and he too came to be at his fathers side...the old merchant slowly opened his eyes...and saw all his 4 sons surrounding him....instinctly cried out....all you fools are here....who the hell is taking care of the cash and the shop...?
saying this he took his last breath.... Regards,
Dear Anupam:
A very good article by you.
After reading that, I am reminded of a relative of mine who was very religious and also orthodox. He has two sons, when they were in college, he always wanted that they should go to US for higher studies so that he can be proud of them. In fact one one hand, he was a task master and would ensure that they did not miss their trikalasandhya ever. They also followed what he said and finally both took up software profession and went to US. Now they almost got settled and dont even want to come back. He is now in his eithties and still a very determined person, but then he may be hiding his emotions and the anger shows up as an outlet when he shouts at his wife at no fault of hers. He also has health problems like diabetis and so on.
He is still extremely religious and performs trikala sandhya regularly(almost never stopped doing them since his upanayana, I was told), still prays to God, offers pooja everyday, does shradda karmas very regularly, entertains relatives and guests at home all the time, but his only weakness is his short tempered nature and arrogance. Now anyway internally he is suffering since he feels isolated.
He alone was responsible for sending his sons(because he was such an authoritative person that if he stressed that they should not go away from India, they would have listened then) and now he is repenting because he has to take the blame and they cant be blamed. When they enjoyed the stay at US, they did not want to leave the place. Anyway for a materialistic person which most of us are, dollars, absence of power cuts, all modern facilities, are all more important that family. See, they have no feeling now and may be when they are old their kids would do the same thing to them.
Dev
A very good article by you.
After reading that, I am reminded of a relative of mine who was very religious and also orthodox. He has two sons, when they were in college, he always wanted that they should go to US for higher studies so that he can be proud of them. In fact one one hand, he was a task master and would ensure that they did not miss their trikalasandhya ever. They also followed what he said and finally both took up software profession and went to US. Now they almost got settled and dont even want to come back. He is now in his eithties and still a very determined person, but then he may be hiding his emotions and the anger shows up as an outlet when he shouts at his wife at no fault of hers. He also has health problems like diabetis and so on.
He is still extremely religious and performs trikala sandhya regularly(almost never stopped doing them since his upanayana, I was told), still prays to God, offers pooja everyday, does shradda karmas very regularly, entertains relatives and guests at home all the time, but his only weakness is his short tempered nature and arrogance. Now anyway internally he is suffering since he feels isolated.
He alone was responsible for sending his sons(because he was such an authoritative person that if he stressed that they should not go away from India, they would have listened then) and now he is repenting because he has to take the blame and they cant be blamed. When they enjoyed the stay at US, they did not want to leave the place. Anyway for a materialistic person which most of us are, dollars, absence of power cuts, all modern facilities, are all more important that family. See, they have no feeling now and may be when they are old their kids would do the same thing to them.
Dev
Last edited by Dev on 20 Jan 2011, edited 1 time in total.
Abhijit Muhurta:
That was a nice story
written by u probably during Abhijit Muhurta .
The father in the story could still have called their names and told them to go the shop, anyway the greed was so strong that even the names did not come out of his mouth. That is what the story shows. It is just like u may love english and want to show off ur skills in the language to everyone but when u recieve a shock or suddenly someone beats u from behind, the lanuage of the word that comes out of your mouth is that of your own mother tongue.
So it is like your mother tongue is atma, and the english that u try to speak to show off is your maya or polluted atma or the body.
Like there greed, here ego or showing off has caused maya to cover the atma. Unless the sheath of maya is removed say whether it is ego, lust, anger, greed or whatever, the atma would not be cleaned and cannot reach to join the paramatma.
Dev
That was a nice story
written by u probably during Abhijit Muhurta .The father in the story could still have called their names and told them to go the shop, anyway the greed was so strong that even the names did not come out of his mouth. That is what the story shows. It is just like u may love english and want to show off ur skills in the language to everyone but when u recieve a shock or suddenly someone beats u from behind, the lanuage of the word that comes out of your mouth is that of your own mother tongue.
So it is like your mother tongue is atma, and the english that u try to speak to show off is your maya or polluted atma or the body.
Like there greed, here ego or showing off has caused maya to cover the atma. Unless the sheath of maya is removed say whether it is ego, lust, anger, greed or whatever, the atma would not be cleaned and cannot reach to join the paramatma.
Dev
-
Abhijit Muhurta !!!
- Frequent Contributor
- Posts: 269
- Joined: 09 Nov 2010
Dev...nice interpretation of the story in context of atma....Dev wrote:Abhijit Muhurta:
That was a nice story
The father in the story could still have called their names and told them to go the shop, anyway the greed was so strong that even the names did not come out of his mouth. That is what the story shows. It is just like u may love english and want to show off ur skills in the language to everyone but when u recieve a shock or suddenly someone beats u from behind, the lanuage of the word that comes out of your mouth is that of your own mother tongue.
So it is like your mother tongue is atma, and the english that u try to speak to show off is your maya or polluted atma or the body.
Like there greed, here ego or showing off has caused maya to cover the atma. Unless the sheath of maya is removed say whether it is ego, lust, anger, greed or whatever, the atma would not be cleaned and cannot reach to join the paramatma.
Dev
-
roseyrose
Dear Anupamji,
You have thrown light on this very much !!!!!!!
I would say you may not find any fixed definition for the quality of karma that you are doing which we human classify in two sections Punyas and Paapas or good and bad deeds. But from somewhere we have to start and for me here Geeta helps me in a great way!!! that says " Your intention decides the nature of karma".
true..so very true....i was remembering a story of sage patanjali..it seems while teaching was going on ....a mosquito started disturbing the shishya very much ..he tried to concentrate on the teaching and was very very disturbed but he did not do anything..after some time out of sheer anger , shishya just wished something....then patanjali stopped and asked him..why do u not kill the physical body also ? the shishya was so amazed .....and then patanjali said,"u have already killed him in the mind ..so why not go ahead and complete the task itself ? " ..... and u have said this bfully..kudos...
If he wants to become multi-millionire why stop him!!! in the name of dharma and saintly sermons. Why putting obstacles in his journey and then leaving this world with unsatisfied desire only to prolong his journey. It is a grave sin. Everybody can't become a saint like you. But as a father it is your duty to make him learn some ethics and you should have an art of inculcating them in his mind rather throwing dry sermons whose meaning you even do not know.
So, you see Punya and Paapa sometimes have very thin border-line. However, I would say his ways are not enigmatic they only appear to be enigmatic because of our limited individualistic perception.
so true..u can have only give samskaras to children..rest and their life would always be according their vasanas and that vasanas can be subjugated to a great extent by these samskaras..but if it is not developed fully then at one stage or another, the negativity would start to show..true colours are always true...and maybe that is why vasanas and ur individual guna depends on ur past karma and thus horoscope and by extension astrology becomes the best available tool...
Have you read Mahabharta completely !! If yes, then remember the episode of Krishna and Gandhari where Gandhari cursed Krishna that one day his own kingdom will reduce to dust due to the war among his own kith and kins same as he killed her sons on the battle ground of Kurushetra. Finally she said that he would die alone, far away from his family, at a desolate place same as he killed her son Duryodhana in the forest. What happened at last!! exactly as she cursed!!! What is the lesson then!!!
well yes multiple times....i shocked my father one day when he asked me about my views on Lord Krishna...I said the greatest king maker ever to have lived on this earth who started from a cow herd etc etc....political maestro etal....so it was punishment time and back to the basics....
when gandhari cursed krishna, he very humbly told, it is as you wish and it is my desire also..if the yadus had not been wiped by inter fighting krishna would have had to take another janma for finishing off the yadu kula..bcos they had become the most powerful by that time right and the whole beauty of krishna being born in the yadu kula would have been lost..
but it is intresting that it is only subhadra's and arjunan's son abhimanyu's son parikshit who continued the indraprastha lineage...so very very intresting..draupadi's 5 sons were destroyed in the war.......
but it is also intresting that there is concepts of free will in the mahabharata...when kauravas and pandavas negotiate, krishna as a mediator asks for indraparastha, small no of rajya,single rajya, multiple villages, single village and then just bhoomi ...but duryodhana says that i will not even give land for the pandavas to even put a needle......
and thus the mahabharata began....
but whenever i have read mahabharata i have always been struck by how everything is destiny rather than free will....what do u think anupamji?
but still suicide...pls throw some light on it...
regards,
rose
You have thrown light on this very much !!!!!!!
I would say you may not find any fixed definition for the quality of karma that you are doing which we human classify in two sections Punyas and Paapas or good and bad deeds. But from somewhere we have to start and for me here Geeta helps me in a great way!!! that says " Your intention decides the nature of karma".
true..so very true....i was remembering a story of sage patanjali..it seems while teaching was going on ....a mosquito started disturbing the shishya very much ..he tried to concentrate on the teaching and was very very disturbed but he did not do anything..after some time out of sheer anger , shishya just wished something....then patanjali stopped and asked him..why do u not kill the physical body also ? the shishya was so amazed .....and then patanjali said,"u have already killed him in the mind ..so why not go ahead and complete the task itself ? " ..... and u have said this bfully..kudos...
If he wants to become multi-millionire why stop him!!! in the name of dharma and saintly sermons. Why putting obstacles in his journey and then leaving this world with unsatisfied desire only to prolong his journey. It is a grave sin. Everybody can't become a saint like you. But as a father it is your duty to make him learn some ethics and you should have an art of inculcating them in his mind rather throwing dry sermons whose meaning you even do not know.
So, you see Punya and Paapa sometimes have very thin border-line. However, I would say his ways are not enigmatic they only appear to be enigmatic because of our limited individualistic perception.
so true..u can have only give samskaras to children..rest and their life would always be according their vasanas and that vasanas can be subjugated to a great extent by these samskaras..but if it is not developed fully then at one stage or another, the negativity would start to show..true colours are always true...and maybe that is why vasanas and ur individual guna depends on ur past karma and thus horoscope and by extension astrology becomes the best available tool...
Have you read Mahabharta completely !! If yes, then remember the episode of Krishna and Gandhari where Gandhari cursed Krishna that one day his own kingdom will reduce to dust due to the war among his own kith and kins same as he killed her sons on the battle ground of Kurushetra. Finally she said that he would die alone, far away from his family, at a desolate place same as he killed her son Duryodhana in the forest. What happened at last!! exactly as she cursed!!! What is the lesson then!!!
well yes multiple times....i shocked my father one day when he asked me about my views on Lord Krishna...I said the greatest king maker ever to have lived on this earth who started from a cow herd etc etc....political maestro etal....so it was punishment time and back to the basics....
when gandhari cursed krishna, he very humbly told, it is as you wish and it is my desire also..if the yadus had not been wiped by inter fighting krishna would have had to take another janma for finishing off the yadu kula..bcos they had become the most powerful by that time right and the whole beauty of krishna being born in the yadu kula would have been lost..
but it is intresting that it is only subhadra's and arjunan's son abhimanyu's son parikshit who continued the indraprastha lineage...so very very intresting..draupadi's 5 sons were destroyed in the war.......
but it is also intresting that there is concepts of free will in the mahabharata...when kauravas and pandavas negotiate, krishna as a mediator asks for indraparastha, small no of rajya,single rajya, multiple villages, single village and then just bhoomi ...but duryodhana says that i will not even give land for the pandavas to even put a needle......
and thus the mahabharata began....
but whenever i have read mahabharata i have always been struck by how everything is destiny rather than free will....what do u think anupamji?
but still suicide...pls throw some light on it...
regards,
rose
-
roseyrose
Dear Dev,Dev wrote:Dear Rosy Rose,
I think that when one has a relationship with another- be it love affair or friendship or relative, sometimes it can break and it takes just seconds to break. In kaliyuga, it breaks even more easily. I think this forum itself is good for learning astrology and even spirituality and for introverts who have noone around and for people who get cheated by most people. This forum also would be useful for depressed souls and for people with kemadruma yoga
Dev
have been racking my brain to know what to write in response and i did the best thing that i usually do when words fail me..and i borrow words from others...
Alone by Maya Angelou
Lying, thinking
Last night
How to find my soul a home
Where water is not thirsty
And bread loaf is not stone
I came up with one thing
And I don't believe I'm wrong
That nobody,
But nobody
Can make it out here alone.
Alone, all alone
Nobody, but nobody
Can make it out here alone.
There are some millionaires
With money they can't use
Their wives run round like banshees
Their children sing the blues
They've got expensive doctors
To cure their hearts of stone.
But nobody
No, nobody
Can make it out here alone.
Alone, all alone
Nobody, but nobody
Can make it out here alone.
Now if you listen closely
I'll tell you what I know
Storm clouds are gathering
The wind is gonna blow
The race of man is suffering
And I can hear the moan,
'Cause nobody,
But nobody
Can make it out here alone.
Alone, all alone
Nobody, but nobody
Can make it out here alone.
regards,
rose
-
roseyrose
Dear Maheshji,p.mahesh wrote:Anupamji,
If law of karma works what was the need for avatars like Rama Or Krishna?
I do not think Sri Krishna had come just to kill few people, that any way would have taken care by the law of karma. On a gross view, there must be some hidden divine plan for entire MBH or even for Sri Krishna's birth as Avatar!!.... Do you know the real reason?
It may be possible that God creates powerful people like Ravana Or Kamsa or nowadys inelectuals like politicians through whom the the law od karma of thousands of (their) vicitms are implemented at a strech.
Mahesh
if i may dare to answer the q addressed to Anupamji,
first of the all, the law of karma worked and that was why avatars of krishna and Rama....
what i believe is that a parayana is mandatory for u of both these epics....that also multiple times...
till that time, there would always be such questions which no body can answer ....because you refuse to believe ....u mix science,astrology,karma,krishna,rama and come up with nothing...
so without the foundation the building will never be strong, be it of faith / astrology/knowledge ..
this was my submission ..please do not feel offended...
regards,
rose
-
roseyrose
Dear Anupamji,
ok...done...
regards,
rose
u made me think sirji!!!!! but as u said, it must be the state which is important....of happiness and calm vis a vis extreme emotional,mental agony and pain.......In this context I would say I may don't define papa and punya in general terms. I would just say one karma prolongs the journey and the other makes it finishes sooner. Simply because if I may say 'Suicide' is a grave sin then.......... whaaaattt
but this intention of saints is done through a process,most importantly of self - knowledge which the other category do not possess...the suicide that we see is due to this lack of knowledeg and due to lack of options .....That was why I said there is no fixed definition of good and evil deeds. It is intention that all does matter. Once I understood this bottom-line, after flipping through some of the pages, I just left the Gita aside instead of reading whole book replete with various shlokas.
but is that fighting destined or free will ? do we have that in terms of controlling death ? no body can do it na..so from where will this strength come?But one thing is sure, I am really not giving dry sermons since I know it deep in my heart, no matter in what conditions you may end your life but the same series of events, that made you end your human journey abruptly, will repeat again with more virulence in coming births till the time you learn to fight with those conditions instead of thinking to cut your throat or even slit your wrist.
please do..i am looking forward to it...I may elaborate upon it all in the coming post and also explain the astrological combinations that can lead to such disastrous happenings.
[/quote]I will also present my views upon this matter once I finish myself from this present context of discussion.but whenever i have read mahabharata i have always been struck by how everything is destiny rather than free will....what do u think?
ok...done...
regards,
rose
Hi Mahesh:
I agree with Rosy Rose. Rama and Krishna avatar was to protect the people by destruction of the evils. Why he waited for the sins to get accumulated and then destroyed the wicked is not easily answerable but each time u read these epics, the better u understand them. They may appear as stories unlike science which needs understanding but then unlike stories, when read multiple times, they give a clearer picture and give an answer. Have u seen upanyasakars raising doubts. They have clear views most of the times.
Dev
I agree with Rosy Rose. Rama and Krishna avatar was to protect the people by destruction of the evils. Why he waited for the sins to get accumulated and then destroyed the wicked is not easily answerable but each time u read these epics, the better u understand them. They may appear as stories unlike science which needs understanding but then unlike stories, when read multiple times, they give a clearer picture and give an answer. Have u seen upanyasakars raising doubts. They have clear views most of the times.
Dev
