Vargotamma planet also Retrograde......effects???

[Basab]

i think it becomes very strong.

[Basab]

Example1:
Planet Jupiter - Natural Benefic - plus
Sign - Pisces - Own Sign - plus
House 11th House - favourable - plus
Retrograde - yes - minus
Conclusion: plus x plus x plus x minus = minus
Therefore, Retrograde Jupiter in Pisces in 11th house is bad.

Example2:
Planet saturn - Natural Malefic - minus
Sign - Libra - Exalted - plus
House 5th House - unfavourable - minus
Conclusion: minus x plus x minus = plus
Therefore, a non-retrograde exalted saturn in 5th house is good.

in Satishji's examples the answers are absolutely correct but the calculation is not. it's true that jupiter won't be favourable and saturn will be favourable but in the first example jupiter has got three positive points and just one negative point and the result is bad but logically the reult should be good and not bad and in the second example saturn has got 2 negative points and one positive point and the result is good though logically the result should be bad as it has got more negative points than positive points. so i think it's better if the positive and negative points are added instead of mutiplied, that i believe will give a more accurate picture. taking the same examples i am adding the positives and negatives instead of multiplying the positives and negatives as Satisji has done.
example1:
Planet Jupiter - Natural Benefic - plus
Sign - Pisces - Own Sign - plus
House 11th House - favourable - plus
Retrograde - yes - minus
Conclusion: plus + plus + plus + minus = plus
Therefore, Retrograde Jupiter in Pisces in 11th house is good.
Example2:
Planet saturn - Natural Malefic - minus
Sign - Libra - Exalted - plus
House 5th House - unfavourable - minus
Conclusion: minus + plus + minus = minus
Therefore, a non-retrograde exalted saturn in 5th house is bad.
this gives a logical result as in the first exampe the positives are more so the result is good and in the second case the negatives are more so the result is bad.
i just gave the aforesaid examples to show that mathematically the calculation should be done this way but i believe even this doesn't give a correct picture. i believe the strength of a planet cannot be measured in this way. it's because saturn though is being shown as bad is not at all bad and is good because it is exalted in the 5th house being the lord of the 9th house. it is a functional benefic for gemini lagna so not at all negative and jupiter would not be that favourable as jupiter is a functional malefic and retrograde as well. but jupiter will still give some good results definitely, but how much that cannot be assessed if calculation is done on the basis of positive and negative points. percentage should be fixed for vaious positive and negative points. i believe functional status of a planet holds a lot of importance and not just natural beneficience/maleficience. then it should be checked whether a planet is under benefic or malefic influence. so these additional parameteres should also be taken into consideration and percentage should be given to assess the strength of the planet because an exalted planet get's a better score than a planet in it's own house but if just postive and negative is just given then the extent of good or bad cannot be understood. one should apply all the parameters and give them certain percentages as per it's importance and assess the strength of a planet.

[Basab]

The following superceeds all the above logic:
1.All vargottams are good (even debilitated vargottams)
2. Any planet debilitated in navamsa is finally bad

don't you think the points are contradictory to each other.
in the first point you have mentioned that a debiliated vargattoma planet is good but in the second point you have mentioned that a planet debiliated in navamsha is bad so a debiliated planet when vargattoma means the planet is debiliated in navamsha so how can it be good and bad at the same time?

[Basab]

dear Satishiji,
i think this can be understood very logically and doesn't need to be applied to charts to be proven.

you are multipying the positives and negatives.
if just one factor is negative then even if an infinite no. of positive factors be there the result will always be negative because
minus x plus x plus x plus x plus x plus = minus
so the negative will turn into a positive only if there is 2 negative(minus) points otherwise not because
minus x minus = plus which i believe can never give a clear picture.
as per my method
minus + plus + plus + plus + plus + plus = 4(plus) which shows the strength of the planet quite clearly.

looking at it from another context,
minus x minus x minus = minus
so 3 minus points are giving one minus point which is not at all logical because it is not showing the extent of negative it can do as it is showing 1 minus point as the result when it has scored 3 minus points.
but if you add up the 3 minus points
minus + minus + minus= 3(minus)
then it's giving 3 minus points which shows the extent of negative the planet can do.

then there is another disadvantage,
if there are 2 minus and 1 plus point then
minus x minus x plus= plus but if you look at the result which is plus it doesn't show the correct picture because 2 minus points means more negative and so the result should be minus and not plus.
but if you use the addition method then
minus + minus + plus= 1(minus). so it is giving a better picture as it is giving the resut as 1 minus point as 1 minus is cancelling against i plus and so 1 minus is the result.

then additional parameters like the functional status of the planets should also be considered which is one of the most important points.

now let me give an example and apply your method and my method. i think it will prove my point.
example1(your method)
Planet Saturn - Natural Malefic - minus
Sign - Libra - Exaltation Sign - plus
House 10th house - favourable - plus
Retrograde - no - so not considering it as a factor as you have said.
Conclusion: minus x plus x plus = minus
Therefore, Saturn in Libra in 10th house is bad.

example1(my method)
Planet Saturn - Natural Malefic - minus
Sign - Libra - Exaltation Sign - plus
House lagna - favourable - plus
Retrograde - no - plus i will give not retrograde a plus point because it will affect the result in my case.
Conclusion: minus + plus + plus + plus = 2(plus)
Therefore, Saturn in Libra in Lagna is good and it get's 2 positive points.

now do you think Saturn the lagna lord getting exalted in the 10th house can be bad as your method is showing it to be? my method is not only showing it is good but it has also given it 2 plus points.

example 2(your method)
Planet Venus - Natural Benefic - plus
Sign - Taurus - Own Sign - plus
House- 5th house - plus
retrograde - yes - minus
Conclusion: plus x plus x plus x minus = minus
Therefore Venus in the 5th house in Taurus is bad

example 2(my method)
Planet Venus - Natural Benefic - plus
Sign - Taurus - Own Sign - plus
House- 5th house - plus
retrograde - yes - minus
Conclusion: plus + plus + plus + minus = 2(plus)
Therefore Venus in the 5th house in Taurus is good and it get's 2 plus points.

now do you think venus the raja yoga karak planet for the capricon lagna placed in the 5th house will do bad just because it is retrograde as your result is showing? my result is not only showing it is good but giving it 2 plus points.

but this method i have used here is also not absolutely correct though the method of calculation should be this. more factors should be added like the functional status of the planets, etc and there should be gradation of plus/minus points like in this case an exalted planet and a planet in it's own house is getting the same points. it should be like this that an exalted planet will get 30 points and a planet in it's own house will get 20 points. there should be a maximum point and the total score will show the strength of the planet in context of that. so these should be used but the main thing is the points should be added and not multiplied.

4th lord Sun is debiliated in 6th in Libra and it is Vargottama.
That means (a) is minus as it is natural malefic (b) is minus as it is debiliated (c) is plus as it is natural malefic in dusta house. Final result is plus so good eventough debiliated Vargottama?

your method has been used in the above mentioned chart.
now do you think 4th lord sun debiliated in 6th house will give good results? sun in the 6th house is not that bad so maybe the negative will be slightly less but still is very negative.
as per my method it will get minus + minus + plus = 1(minus), which i guess gives a better picture of the planetary strength.

maybe you have a strong justification for all this so would wait for your response to this. i am sure you have derived this method after applying them in many charts so sure there must be some basis to it which right now i am overlooking. i will try to understand it and will definitely use it in the charts i have got in my astrodata bank.

[Basab]

dear Satishji,
you are not getting my point. yes, i agree that i said that the conclusion you had reached in the first 2 examples definitely was correct but when i applied them in some other planetary postions it didn't work out as i had thought.
there are some examples i have given using the method you have used and using the method i have used so do you think the result your method is showing is correct in those cases?

now let me give an example and apply your method and my method. i think it will prove my point.
example1(your method)
Planet Saturn - Natural Malefic - minus
Sign - Libra - Exaltation Sign - plus
House 10th house - favourable - plus
Retrograde - no - so not considering it as a factor as you have said.
Conclusion: minus x plus x plus = minus
Therefore, Saturn in Libra in 10th house is bad.

example1(my method)
Planet Saturn - Natural Malefic - minus
Sign - Libra - Exaltation Sign - plus
House lagna - favourable - plus
Retrograde - no - plus i will give not retrograde a plus point because it will affect the result in my case.
Conclusion: minus + plus + plus + plus = 2(plus)
Therefore, Saturn in Libra in Lagna is good and it get's 2 positive points.

now do you think Saturn the lagna lord getting exalted in the 10th house can be bad as your method is showing it to be? my method is not only showing it is good but it has also given it 2 plus points.

example 2(your method)
Planet Venus - Natural Benefic - plus
Sign - Taurus - Own Sign - plus
House- 5th house - plus
retrograde - yes - minus
Conclusion: plus x plus x plus x minus = minus
Therefore Venus in the 5th house in Taurus is bad

example 2(my method)
Planet Venus - Natural Benefic - plus
Sign - Taurus - Own Sign - plus
House- 5th house - plus
retrograde - yes - minus
Conclusion: plus + plus + plus + minus = 2(plus)
Therefore Venus in the 5th house in Taurus is good and it get's 2 plus points.

now do you think venus the raja yoga karak planet for the capricon lagna placed in the 5th house will do bad just because it is retrograde as your result is showing? my result is not only showing it is good but giving it 2 plus points.

if just one factor is negative then even if an infinite no. of positive factors be there the result will always be negative because
minus x plus x plus x plus x plus x plus = minus

i would like to draw your attention to this line, how do you justify this?

Example: When I say Saturn in Libra in 5th house, it is understood that the lagna is Gemini – it is also understood that it is lord of 9th and 10th house – and hence it is understood that it is functional benefic. Thus the functional beneficience is taken care – the “who is he and how is heâ€

[Ghrishneswar]

the best analysis for this has been provided by Visti Larsen on his website srigaruda dot com
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[Ghrishneswar]

The forum BB does not allow me to post links. I wil try someother way.

[Ghrishneswar]

the link is

srigaruda dot com slash visti slash index dot php slash publications slash articles slash 89-retr