Selection of birth time : A case

[Ghrishneswar]

All,

I was checking potential chart for babies born in April and there is a lady who is on track to deliver a child in April 2013.
The date can be chosen as the birth will be most likely C-section due to previous child birth.
She has the option to select date an time within a narrow range and one of the potential date range is April 14 to April 22 in 2013.

It is a bit early but I was casting some charts between those dates and one date that stuck me was April 14 2013, 14:26, Providence, RI, USA.

What other recommendation can other learned astrologers provide?

[elipsis]

My choice would be 17th april around 10 AM.

Although C-section birth won't bear the same strength as natural birth.

Edit: Its important to check Rahu and yamganda kaal.

[Ghrishneswar]

My choice would be 17th april around 10 AM.

Although C-section birth won't bear the same strength as natural birth.

Edit: Its important to check Rahu and yamganda kaal.

Elipsis,
"Although C-section birth won't bear the same strength as natural birth."
What does this mean?
Are their charts weaker or their birth time more questionable?
There are a lot of babies born through C-section.

[elipsis]

I am speaking in astrological terms not a scientific one. I'm told that caesarian births doesn't bear the same strength as natural ones, it's because the lord of the ascendant won't be mature enough to come out of the womb yet, so the native may possess some hidden qualities that cannot be interpreted using the standard rules of astrology.

[numbskull]

hello elipsis

ur post implies that people born of C-section shouldnot completely go by c- section time to be their birth time as far as casting a vedic kundli for them?

so what could be done is that at later date they have birth time rectifcation done to get correct time based on imp events of their life?

for rectification what should be kept as reference their c-section time or the due date which was meant for them if pregnancy to have gone naturally?

sir do u mean to say that for person born of c-section the kundli reading is not as accurate as for one with normal delivery?

thank you

[elipsis]

Yes, C-Section birth charts won't be completely accurate. Each birth has a purpose and the soul decides when to take birth. However, saving a life is more important than the strength of the birth chart so when the situation is unavoidable there is no choice but to opt for the c-section by selecting an auspicious date. And there are no reliable ways to measure the strength of the chart this way.

[map]

Dear Sir,

April 14 to April 22 in 2013, Providence, USA

Place itself is Providence. Wonderful coincidence. However,

I would suggest 18th April 2013 (Thursday)
TOB: Btw 12-20 PM and 1-15 PM.
See 10th house and Planet for intelligence Budha in 9 th House.

regards
map

[lilly2005]

..

[elipsis]

Yes, C-Section birth charts won't be completely accurate. Each birth has a purpose and the soul decides when to take birth. However, saving a life is more important than the strength of the birth chart so when the situation is unavoidable there is no choice but to opt for the c-section by selecting an auspicious date. And there are no reliable ways to measure the strength of the chart this way.

...the parents had no desire to control and manipulate the birth time of the baby, and so the baby arrived just at the right time when it was meant to arrive not a second early or late.

Lilly

Then your sister has nothing to worry about- the chart will be nearly accurate. Although it would be prudent to keep an eye on the child's behaviour.

[Ghrishneswar]

Yes, C-Section birth charts won't be completely accurate. Each birth has a purpose and the soul decides when to take birth. However, saving a life is more important than the strength of the birth chart so when the situation is unavoidable there is no choice but to opt for the c-section by selecting an auspicious date. And there are no reliable ways to measure the strength of the chart this way.

Elipsis not sure what to say here, a soul is born when it decides to take birth , means are immaterial. The doctors and parents are just fulfilling the soul's wishes. They are just means to an end. Even unusual birth with intervention are part of soul's destiny, Similar to the parents you are born with.

I am very curious about the comment you made to lily's mention of c-section birth - Watching child's behavior.
What are you trying to convey here?

[elipsis]

Means always matters because there might be a lot of reasons behind it. A soul is always looking for a particular time to take birth- it chooses parents and grandparents, it chooses its best friends as well as enemies, birth as well as death. Altering a fate before birth is an act of violation, no one should violate the womb unless in extraordinary circumstances. Horoscopes shouldn't be manufactured to cater the conveniences or desires of parents as it counts as a sin. Abortions, C-sections and other insane things people do are all acts of desperation and counts as greatest sins if willfully done.

Children born this way ought to be carefully observed because they might be having doshas that may not be present in their birth charts, early detection can keep the trouble at bay

[lilly2005]

..

[KET]

Means always matters because there might be a lot of reasons behind it. A soul is always looking for a particular time to take birth- it chooses parents and grandparents, it chooses its best friends as well as enemies, birth as well as death.

Elipsis ji.... 100% agreed.

Altering a fate before birth is an act of violation, no one should violate the womb unless in extraordinary circumstances. Horoscopes shouldn't be manufactured to cater the conveniences or desires of parents as it counts as a sin. Abortions, C-sections and other insane things people do are all acts of desperation and counts as greatest sins if willfully done.

Again you have hit the button at the right place, at the Right Time...

Extra-ordinary circumstance an abortion is carried out (looking at the merits/demerits. Abortion etc is as equivalent to theBrahama Hatya dosha... a worst sins... it will be get added into negative karmas

Children born this way ought to be carefully observed because they might be having doshas that may not be present in their birth charts, early detection can keep the trouble at bay

[elipsis]

Yeah right, in vedic times there was no such as c-section and astrology was written for normal births only.

[Ghrishneswar]

I agree that abortion is type of negative karma.

But I have different views about C-section. A man cannot alter another soul's destiny.

May be the "means" part did not come as well as i Intended.
Means is just using tools available to reduce the risk to both mother and child during birth.

For me C-section is just an unusual circumstance of birth and mostly people ,parents and doctors pick up a suitable date and time of birth based on medical necessity and complications involved.

Sometime doctors perform c-section on a particular date and time because they have the most experienced doctor available in that slot. Sometimes people choose weekend as they and family members are available to provide the required support.

I do not think that you can change a soul's destiny by picking up a time. With so many nuances it is nearly impossible. What about muhurata in astrology where you pick us a suitable date and time?

If parents do not choose the hospital picks up a date and time based on their availability, workload, and extent of medical intervantion required. A human does come into picture and I do not believe that they are playing God. Can they play God?

Unless someone forces a baby to be born prematurely like 30 days before approx due date I do not see the issue. Even by doing that I am not sure what you can change? It is like a rubber band if it is strecthed on on one side something else changes.

When a baby can be delivered normally and the parents decide to choose the date/time and go for C-sections then there is definitely an issue.

In cases where docs decide it has to be a C-section due to prior history, a date and time has to be picked or medical necessity/resource availability will decide it. A human is involed due to whatever the reason.

In Indian I have seen a tendency for doctors to go for C-section birth as this gives them an opportunity to mint money. In US normal delivery is the preferred way unless medically warranted.

Astrology also mentiones Desh, kaal and paatra. C-sections are a reality as we go into the future more advanced medical intervention techniques will come. I am not sure how we can practice astrology after ignoring a significant population.

If I have an issue or medical problem and got to a doctor to cure it it does not mean that I am interfering with God's will. I am using the tools available to my benefit.

One in every two births in China are delivered by C-section, and nearly one in five in India.
According to WHO which reviewed 110,000 births from nine countries in Asia during 2007-2008, 27% births were delivered by C-section. A similar survey conducted in Latin America found that 35% of pregnant women were delivered by C-section.

It as nice knowing everyone's thoughts on the subject.

[anxious2711]

Hey,

Just my two cents, I know of two people who tried to time their delivery according to the planets, but each time something went wrong and had to have the delivery at an earlier time.
One of the person is the nephew of a professional astrologist, he had found the perfect time, but on the same day due to complications they had to perform the delivery. The baby was born at such time that she suffered some serious health issues for 6 months.

So I say, C-section counts the same, if God had intended for the birth to take place at a certain time, nothing can be changed by man, and if some people manage to time the C-section, maybe God intended the child to be born at that time.

Just my two cents.

BTW, if you think man can plan anything, then I would suggest you plan a baby between Nov 2013 and Jan 2014, 9 months after that, all slow planets will be transiting through exaltation/friendly signs.

[piscean82]

Hello - Not sure if i am allowed to post on a thread that has been inactive for sometime. But i just want a clarification. I did see a statement that the C-section birth chart may not be as strong as natural birth ones because the time of birth is chosen and not destined. What if the birth is an induced one and a natural delivery? Lets say the native doesnt seem to get a labor pain until the specified date and the physician decides to induce the birthing process. But the delivery is normal. Is this also considered to be the same case as C-section due to the deviation from the normal process?

P.S. My cousin's wife falls under this category...

[elipsis]

Obviously it is considered a deviation from natural birth, so you should expect some differences.

[Ghrishneswar]

Well, this thread will be activated when the baby will be born.
Doctor has confirmed c section as a medical necessity.
I will post when the birth takes place. I would like to see if the baby's birth chart points to surgical intervention. I always thought Scorpio individuals are born after pain to their mothers.


Edit:
Came to know yesterday the doctors have changed the surgery week to give baby more oppportunity to grow.
Now they have given a few date and time options to parents between Apr 23 to 26.
Parents have no choice but to pick one.

Mothers feeling is baby is interested in coming sooner.

Let us see if baby will decide when it wants to take birth.

[Ghrishneswar]

Man proposes God disposes. Man plans God laughs.
The baby was schedule for 23 apr 2013 but due to early labor..baby was born on 22 Apr 2013, 4:27 pm, providence, RI, USA vi a emergency C-section.

Interesting chart very fateful ,hard to read due to a cluster of planets in 8h.

[bob_astrologer]

This proves that each person life is destined or planned by planets.

[anxious2711]

What did I tell you guys?!

[rathore]

If the Moon be eclipsed (i.e. Lunar eclipse operating at birth) and be in the ascendant along with
malefics, while Mars is in the 8th house, the child quits the world along with its mother. The mother dies of weapons along with the child. This view is of Satyacharya. Chapter: Conditions at birth.

Weapons are needed for c-section birth as described in the above sloka.

Many surgical operations are mentioned in Sushruta Samhita (Part of Ayurveda i.e. Atharv veda). C-sections have been done since then.

There is no differentiation in classical texts for children born normally Vs. surgically. Please quote if you have come across any.

Generally, involvement of Mars is seen in c-section births.

Rathore

[Ghrishneswar]

What did I tell you guys?!

I have to give this to you anxious
This also points that man cannot make someone's destiny.

Rathore>>
It was very nice to see some references to C-section pointers. I have another chart with mars in 8H. She was also C-section.
C-Section seems to be older than we think. I read the history section in wikipedia and the oldest reference to surgical intervention is in India.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Caesarean_section