Celebrating The Combustion of Saturn...

[astro123]

Exaltation = Max power of graha
Deb = least power of graha

Aspect = power to influence another planet or house.

At max power, the aspect or ability to influence will be max.
At least power, aspect or ability to influence will be least.

It is a separate question on whether the effects will be good or bad.
For that two factors need to considered.
Natural traits of the graha.
Lordship of the graha.

If Jupiter is lording 2H and 5H and exalted, it will be 9H, so will be extremely good.
If Jupiter as 8L is exalted, it spells T R O U B L E.

Regards,
Arun

Thanks Arun for u r wonderful explanation..!!

[astroboy]

Good day saindhavi, and good day all,


Dr Robert Svoboda once said “every Indian text {and by extension Jyotishya} was written under the assumption that it would be studied under the Guidance of a Guru who would enliven it to a student. Jyotish can only be truly learnt orally from a competent teacher”

I was fortunate enough to find a Guru who had fully immersed himself in the waters of Jyotishya from the past 15 years. I learnt this science from him with sweat and tears, for he made it tough for me. But that pain has translated into a foundation that is solid and unshakeable. What I am going to write below is written with confidence. I had this discussion with my Guru last evening and he has denounced the theory that a “exalted planet casts a debilitated aspect on the 7th house, or rather gives debilitated effects to the 7th house from where he is placed.”. That statement /Dictum is wrong and I will prove that it is wrong with examples. I leave it to the reader to accept and grasp what I have to say, or leave it by the way side. I don’t lose anything if you chose to ignore my logic, just that you will be applying the wrong dictums to a horoscope.

I feel it’s my duty to propagate what I have learnt from a competent Guru, It would be a sin on my part to keep this knowledge within me. Please read what I have written as many time you can, till you grasp what I am trying to convey.

To be continued,

[astroboy]

Arun ji has made the following statement wich has been mis-interpreted by many.

by arunsg321 » Sun Oct 09, 2011 11:29 am
Exaltation = Max power of graha
Deb = least power of graha

That statement is sweeping and general, I have below two horoscopes as examples to show the contrary

here is an example of a child born in Bangalore on the 04th of this month.

Female
October 04 2011
20 :29
Bangalore

Ex 1.jpg

Mars - Shadbala Rupas - + 8.69
Drig Bala - + 19.54

[astroboy]

Female
April 18th 2005
20 :32
Mangalore

Ex 2.jpg

Mars - Shadbala Rupas - 5.72
DrigBala - 14.87

[astroboy]

In the first case, Kuja is is debilitated but is extremely strong. In the 2nd the same planet is in debilitation but is weaker than a debilitated Kuja.

In the first horoscope Kuja is debilitated but is extremely powerful in digital strength, scoring a amazing 8.69 points in Rupas. Kuja though debilitated is the strongest planet in this horoscope. How can you say that a debilitated planet = least power of the graha ?

In example 2 Kuja is in his peak exaltation but has just 5.7 points in Rupas. How can you say “Exaltation = Max power of graha”

[astroboy]

What does it go to show ? it shows that a planet might be exalted, but need not necessarily be strong. This is why I put a caveat in my statement

by astroboy » Sun Oct 09, 2011 10:12 am
You must understand what exaltation means. We all know a exalted planet is rendered strong by strength "all factors being equal"

Yes a exalted planet is strong, but not all the time. Thus my caveat “all factors being equal”.

When we say “strong” we must say “strong in giving good effects”. This strength to give good effects is directly propotional to the planets “digital strength” like Shad bala, Astakavarga, avastha, and bava Bala.

[astroboy]

what does Parashara have to say about a exalted planet being strong ? people tend to misinterpret what Parashara is trying to say, and this is where a Guru can help.

Please read Sloka 59 -60 chapter 3 of the B.P.H.S.

59-60. Ratio of Effects: A graha in exaltation gives fully good effects while in Moola-Trikona it is bereft of its auspicious effects by one fourth. It is half beneficial in its own bhava. Its beneficence is one fourth in a friendly rashi. In an equal's rashi one eighth of auspicious disposition is useful. The good effects are nil in debilitation or enemy's camp. Inauspicious effects are quite reverse with reference to what is stated.

What Parashara is trying to say is that power is not the key. The influence is the key and that is what Arun Ji was trying to convey.

[astroboy]

Now let us come back to Saindhavi’s statement,

by Saindhavi » Sun Oct 09, 2011 11:57 am
1.an exalted planet will exert maximum negative influence on the house opposite to it, since it happens to be its house of debilitation sign.
2.Similarly, a debilitated planet will be able to give effects of only its opposite house, which happens to be its exaltation sign. It can't give the effect of where it is placed.
3.The 7th aspect of a debilitated plant will be mild, but this is the house whose effect it will have the maximum power to give.
4.I don't see how any school of thought can teach that a debilitated planet gives exalted effect of its opposite house, as has been remarked above - this is wrong, because the planet doesn't have that much power.

There is a contradiction between point 2 and point 4

by Saindhavi » Sun Oct 09, 2011 11:57 am
I don't see how any school of thought can teach that a debilitated planet gives exalted effect of its opposite house, as has been remarked above - this is wrong, because the planet doesn't have that much power.

Saindhavi first of all, which is that school of thought, and what text are they following to substantiate their claim? I have shown you Via example 1 that a planet though debilitated is extremely powerful. You claim that a debilitated planet does not have much power and thus cannot give exalted effects to the opposite house (7th house). That is wrong as I have shown you with the two examples provided above.



By your logic, if a exalted planet can give debilitated results to the 7th house from where it is, should it not be the case that a debilitated planet cast his exalted aspect from where he is ?

Can you give me a quote from any classical text that can substantiate your statements ? I have tried to find at least one sloka that supports your view, but I have not come across it in any of the texts I have. If you can find one, please provide it for me. I will be highly obliged

[jayakap]

thank you Saindhavi ji, for the very prompt reply, could you also predict as to when he will get another job, and also if there will be peace at home ever, there are too many disturbances and fights and troubles, he has done the resignation bit fo the 4th time in a row now in the pat 4 years. is there a problem in my stars/planets ? please help

thanks
Jaya

[nupur]

Hi Astroboy


Very well written . I think what you have written is Parashar-sammat and Tark-sangat too . Arunji has also said the same. I think no planet ever does any discrimination among its aspects . Aspect is good or bad , its effect on any bhava depends on so many other factors and not on any discrimination among the drishties .


regards

[Saindhavi]

Astroboy,

Simpler matters first -

Shikham complimented me, so I thought I should thank her. It was not my intention to look down upon you in any way and you should not look at it that way. My comment was not directed at you. It was just an acknowledgment of Shikham's comment.

As Indians, we all are conditioned to come across diversity of ideas in every field and astrology is no exception. Five astrologers read a chart in 5 different manner and we are used to accepting diversity of ideas. It's a way of life in India. So, we should not look upon our differences in opinion as a reason for conflict or argument. We have agreed to disagree and remain cordial and that is the best policy. So, you should not think that disagreeing with me can lead you into a slinging match.

My comment on how any school of thought can teach that a debilitated planet has exalted effect on opposite house was a response to someone else's earlier comment which said there is a school of thought that teaches this. So, you should ask that person which school of thought it is, not me. I was disagreeing with the idea that a debilitated planet can have exalted aspect on the opposite house.

An exalted planet gives the debilitating effect of its opposite house because it is powerful in giving effect. But a debilitated planet can only give mild effect of its opposite house because its overall strength is weak because of debilitation - it's not equal to an exalted planet in its exaltation house.

Now, the more complex issue -

Your explanation is very erudite. I am not a learned astrologer and have never claimed to be one.

The two natives in your examples are very young. Only time will tell how their Mars is. So, their charts can't be verified with real-life evidences, which is what I give maximum importance to.

But tell me a very simple thing - how can exalted Saturn give the effect of its opposite house, where Aries sign is placed - whichever house it is?

How can exalted Jupiter give the effect of the opposite house where Capricorn is placed?

How can exalted Mars give the effect of the opposite house where Cancer is placed?

If Mars is debilitated, no matter how much Shadbala it has, how can it give the effect of the house where it is placed? With a high Shadbala, it will give a little more than mild effect of the opposite house, which happens to be its house of exaltation, though this effect will still be milder than the effect of an exalted Mars in that house. In all cases, it will block the effect of the house where it is debilitated.

Similarly, exalted Mars with a lower Shadbala will give a lower effect of Capricorn house than an exalted Mars with a high Shadbala - that is true. But even an exalted Mars with a lower Shadbala will give much higher effect than a debilitated Mars with any kind of Shadbala.

See this in your own chart - who else but Jupiter (with help from Moon) could have brought a stunningly beautiful and highly intelligent person to you - even though Jupiter is debilitated? In your chart, Jupiter is able to give the effect of only your 7th house and no other house, as I said above.

However, precisely because Jupiter is debilitated and Moon is not strong either, being afflicted with Mars, Jupiter can bring this person but can't get marriage done. If this Jupiter had been exalted in 7th rather than aspecting it from its debilitation house, it would have cancelled Mars' debilitation of your 7th house and have got marriage done.

This is the difference I was talking about the 7th aspect of a debilitated planet and its effect on its opposite house in exaltation.

See below...

[Saindhavi]

...Now, see your Mars - exalted Mars casts a debilitation aspect on your 7th house, helped by Saturn's 3rd aspect and this gives you a "blow hot, blow cold" relationship.

If your exalted Mars had a good effect on 7th according to your argument, you would have got married.

So, following my argument, your Jupiter gives the effect of your 7th house, but milder than an exalted Jupiter's effect of the same house. Your Mars casts strongest negative aspect on your 7th house, debilitating it, which is only partially counter-balanced by debilitated Jupiter and Moon.

I don't believe in blindly following what is written in books or what an expert says. It has to pass the test of logic. The concept of an exalted planet giving a strong positive effect of its opposite house of debilitation doesn't pass the test of logic.

I did say a debilitated planet gives only a mild effect of its opposite house and doesn't give the effect of the debilitated house where it is located.

Hence, your Mercury doesn't give the effect of your 3rd house. It gives a mild effect of your 9th house, because that is the house that derives maximum energy from Mercury, through Virgo sign.

Again, your mercury's effect of 9th is not equal to the effect of an exalted Mercury placed in your 9th, because your debilitated Mercury's power is low. It's not equal to an exalted Mercury's power.

Reflect over all this and see if you find it logical.

[anuradha]

-

[ChandraLagna]

how can exalted Saturn give the effect of its opposite house, where Aries sign is placed - whichever house it is?

How can exalted Jupiter give the effect of the opposite house where Capricorn is placed?

How can exalted Mars give the effect of the opposite house where Cancer is placed?

Saindhavi,

Any house results itself will depend on, as you'd agree:

1. The planet posited in Aries/capricor/Cancer..as the example above.
2. The lords of those rashis
2. The karakas of the houses signified by those houses
4. Importantly, the drishti, or the aspects received --->>>> Isn't this the point we are discussing here?

The last point is nothing but influencing the house. So, it is not

How can exalted Mars give the effect OF the opposite house where Cancer is placed?

rather, it is

Exalted Mars can give the effect ON the opposite house where Cancer is placed.

Does this help?

Regards,
Arun

[Saindhavi]

Arun,

Yes, that's what I am arguing - exalted Mars will exert strong influence ON opposite house where Cancer is placed - and hence, will block its effect, Cancer being its debilitation sign.

Debilitated Mars will give mild effect OF the opposite house where Capricorn is placed, since Capricorn derives maximum energy from Mars. Hence, even a debilitated Mars has to give some effect OF Capricorn house it aspects.

Astroboy is arguing otherwise.

[ChandraLagna]

Arun,

Yes, that's what I am arguing - exalted Mars will exert strong effect ON opposite house where Cancer is placed - and hence, will block its effect, Cancer being its debilitation sign.

Astroboy is arguing otherwise.

saindhavi, These are two separate & distinct statements.

Yes, that's what I am arguing - exalted Mars will exert strong effect ON opposite house where Cancer is placed -

and hence,

will block its effect, Cancer being its debilitation sign.

regards,
Arun

[astroboy]

Good day Saindhavi ji, I will reply to your post point by point, But first a residue of yesterday,

You must have noticed that I have mentioned the Drig Bala values in the examples above. Drik Bala is called aspect strength. If a planet is aspected by benefics the planet receives a positive Shashtiamsa value. If a planet is aspected by malefics than it gets negative Drig Bala points.

What is important to know is that if a certain planet has a negative Drig Bala value than it is mainly under the influence of malefics and if it has a positive Drig Bala value it is under the influence of benefics. Therefore I think the Drig Bala value is very important in assessing the status of the planet. By looking at the Shadbala we can immediately see if a planet is mainly under the influence of benefics or malefics and how strong this influence is.

I said, in my previous post which I edited out to make a separate post of it, that the debilitated Kuja in example 1 receives a higher positive aspect and scores an incredible 19.61 points compared to the exalted Kuja in example 2 who gets only 14.87. Does it mean that Kuja in example one will be able to give good results and temper his aspect to the 7th house? Can a debilitated planet who receives a higher Drig Bala cast an exalted aspect on the 7th house? Not at all. The benefic aspects the debilitated planet recieves might temper the planet down and make it act normal under normal circumstances, but when stressed, Kuja will act and display his inability to do well. Let us make no mistake about it.

[Saindhavi]

Arun,
Ok, let me say it differently - how can Cancer derive energy from Mars?

How can Capricorn derive energy from Jupiter?

Capricorn has to derive at least some energy from Mars aspect - even if mars is weak.

Cancer has to derive at least some energy from Jupiter's aspect - even if Jupiter is weak.

[Saindhavi]

But Astroboy,

When did I say a debilitated planet gives an exalted effect on its opposite house?

I have been arguing all along that its aspect on its opposite house is a lot milder than if it would have been exalted in that house.

I did say that school of thought is wrong, in my first comment.

You said an exalted planet has an exalted effect on its debilitation house, not I.

I have been arguing all along that -

1 - an exalted planet's debilitating effect on its opposite house = the debilitated planet's effect of the house where it is located (Example - Exalted Jupiter's debilitation of Capricorn = Debilitated Jupiter's effect on Capricorn).

2 - However, reverse is not true. A debilitated planet's effect on its opposite house is Less than the same planets exalted placement in that house (Example - Debilitated Mercury's effect on Virgo IS LESS THAN the exalted Mercury's effect of Virgo).

But, a debilitated planet will give the effect of this opposite house, not of the house where it is placed.

I hope I make myself clear.

[astroboy]

by Saindhavi » Tue Oct 11, 2011 8:13 am

...Now, see your Mars - exalted Mars casts a debilitation aspect on your 7th house, helped by Saturn's 3rd aspect and this gives you a "blow hot, blow cold" relationship.

If your exalted Mars had a good effect on 7th according to your argument, you would have got married.

So, following my argument, your Jupiter gives the effect of your 7th house, but milder than an exalted Jupiter's effect of the same house. Your Mars casts strongest negative aspect on your 7th house, debilitating it, which is only partially counter-balanced by debilitated Jupiter and Moon.

As usual, I shall put my horoscope on the chopping block in the interest of astrology

D3.jpg

The stunningly beautiful woman came in my life because the 7th lord is the Moon and is in the lagna. Chandra is in his own Nakshatra. It is not because Guru aspects the 7th house from his debilitation sign with his exalted aspect. And whether the stunning beautiful woman will be a permanant fixture is a matter of great debate within me. So let's leave it at that.

The blow hot blow cold is because of Shani's aspect on the 7th, the 7th lord chandra is with a exalted Badaka lord and a debilitated 12th lord aspecting the 7th. You must remember what Role Kuja is playing here. Kuja is the Badaka lord, against the lagna lord, and is a natural malefic 1st class. He is dead against the 7th house matters anyways. I never forget that I have a first class Kuja dosha, and I dont believe that Kuja dosha has any "Bhanga". Do we need to bring in the "exalted planet = debilitated aspect on the 7th house" theory to justify things. The key point is that Kuja is neutral to the 7th lord Chandra and Chandra treats Kuja as an enemy. {always pay attention to the 5 fold friendship chart } You dont need to use the "debilitated aspect of Kuja on the 7th house" to explain this?

You also ignore what role Guru is playing here. Guru is debilitated and is casting a debilitated aspect on the 7th. Not a "mildly" "exalted" aspect. Who is he? He is the 12th lord. Is he a benefic for the lagna? He is not. Do I need to stress on what would happen if a debilitated 12th lord aspects the 7th? Why do you need to explain things with the "debilitated aspect of Kuja on the 7th house" theory ?

When we talk of relationship's, take a peek at the Navamsha. the 8th lord Ravi who is exalted, is in the 7th house in the Navamsha. Need I say more? you cannot apply this "exalted planets = debilitated aspect on the 7th / debilitated planet = exalted aspect on the 7th" theory to explain the F#$k ups in my life. . Its pretty well screwed without needing another dictum to explain things.

[Saindhavi]

Astroboy,

I did say Jupiter was helped by Moon.

About the rest - as I said, there are diversities of opinions in India and we should be at peace with them as truly diverse people.

So, you can be happy with the way you look at your chart and I can be happy with the way I look at it.

Only, beware of your Jupiter-Sun period.

Only, I wish I could place my chart on public view as easily as you do! But then, I don't have exalted Mars in my Lagna!

I don't know if you have Mangal Dosha, but your Mars has made you very transparent and open about yourself - remember what I said about the transparency of Mars once.

Regards

[astroboy]

that is the 12th lord's dasha at work Saindhavi, not the Kuja. note this dictum carved by me

"In the dasha of the 12th, if the 12th be debilitated in the lagna, unaspected by a benefic, then the native will care two flying %^$#@ about what happens to him."

BTW i love debating with you. You keep your head on your shoulders. Your Guru must be strong.

[USR]

Quite interesting.Exaltation/debilitation doesn't exist simultaneously,they are independent.
Too much knowledge makes one confused.

[nupur]

Dear USR

I do have the same opinion . Perhaps Saindhavi Maam is also saying the same things as astroboy and arunji said but her communication was a bit confusing . Anyways it happens sometimes . Not a big issue .

regards

[Saindhavi]

Astroboy,

BTW i love debating with you. You keep your head on your shoulders. Your Guru must be strong.

Now you know why I trust Jupiter so much!

Nupur and USR,

Astrology is Rahu's Maya, to keep us in illusion!