Celebrating The Combustion of Saturn...

[Saindhavi]

Following is the recovered portion of my post which was lost in the technological problem that occurred recently. Recovery is only partial and I am sorry for the lost posts which could not be recovered -

Today, on the 21st of September 2011, Saturn is calculated to go combust in Virgo sign. Saturn gets combust when it is at or less than 16 degrees from the Sun.

Saturn will remain combust till 31st October 2011. After that it will be on its way out of Virgo and will become exalted in Libra around mid-November 2011.

In the following post, Astroboy has given the movement and combustion of Saturn during its two and a half years' stay in and around Libra ( I say "around" because it will be also retrogressing out of Libra sometimes) -

viewtopic.php?f=42&p=95117#p94915

Hence, for some time now, Saturn's influence on and aspect from Virgo is almost over.

This means that those who have been under the influence of Saturn's transit in Virgo, should experience some relief for some months. However, for those whose Rahu in Scorpio was being strengthened by Virgo Saturn's aspect, will still be influenced by Rahu in Scorpio, though without help from Saturn.

Of course, this gets modified by the Dasha running and also by how Saturn is in the natal charts of the people. Besides, Libra Saturn will have an exalted aspect. But till 31st October at least, Saturn's influence in and from Virgo should be minimal.

This is a period of experiment for those who have felt the undue pressure from Saturn in Virgo for past two and a half years or so. They can study whether they feel any difference in their lives till 31st October and can come back and share their experiences on this site if they like.

As for me, about two months after Saturn transited into Virgo, I began to feel the pressure from Saturn. But to be fair to Lord Shanidev, till about three months back, I was able to manage my troubles without resorting to any remedies, taking it as a challenge and managing to meet the challenge - I am a person who likes challenging situations and I perform best under pressure. So, in more than two years, I have felt oppressed by Saturn only for about three months. I'll come back and write how the month of combust Saturn goes for me.

It was only about three months ago when Saturn's degree in Virgo increased did I feel oppressed by Saturn in Virgo. That was also the time I began to search for astrological remedies and about one and a half month earlier, found this site. I understand that everyone may not feel the same level of Saturn's oppression as I did. Some may feel less, while others may feel more.

In these three months, the most important change that came over me was that I became extremely interested in devotional music. My Ascendant is influenced by Venus, so I am naturally inclined towards the finer things in life. I have a large collection of non-devotional music, but I just didn't feel like listening to any of it in last three months. All I wanted was devotional music. From this search also also came the list of video links of mantras on this site - viewtopic.php?f=12&t=11446&start=75#p93062

Today, all of a sudden, I felt a change in my inclination - for the first time in months, today I listened to some of my favourite non-devotional music and also watched some classical dance videos! I felt energetic and wanted to follow a dynamic lifestyle. I was surprised by this change and looked at the date - and realised today Saturn has begun its journey into combustion in Virgo!

Well, I hope this energetic and positive outlook stays with me while Saturn remains combust and while it gets exalted in Libra! And I hope everyone feels as positive as I feel today.

Please share your experiences regarding this aspect here if you like.

Best regards,

Saindhavi

[Saindhavi]

Some clarifications to the above -

Different people have calculated different dates of Saturn combustion based on different methods. This has resulted in slightly different dates in the combustion of Saturn, ranging from 21st of Sept to 27th of Sept 2011. I have taken the first of these dates. Those who want to take a cautious view, may take 26th or 27th of September as the combustion date. There seems to be a consensus however, on the ending date of Saturn's combustion - 31st of October 2011.

It must be borne in mind that combustion does not mean that Saturn has stopped giving effect. It means that within its range of combustion degrees, it's intensity will be reduced. Only when it is at the same degree to the Sun will it lose most of its power, but that will happen only for a day. As long as it is a few degrees away from the Sun, it will give effect though with a reduced intensity.

Whether this reduced intensity is good or bad depends upon a lot of factors such as Saturn's position in the Lagna Chart, Dasha running, transit effects of other planets and also the strength of the whole chart, to name a few of these factors. Hence, in every person's case, Saturn's combustion will have a different meaning and this meaning will vary according to varying intensities of Saturn as it crosses the combustion zone.

Thus, just as there can't be a blanket prediction for a planet's placement in a house in every case, there can't be a blanket prediction for Saturn's combustion in every case. And the same holds true for all planets.

Those who want to see how their Virgo Saturn period has been in past 2 years or so, may look at the following dates of Saturn's movement in Virgo -

11.09.2009 to 05.10.2009 combust
14.01.2010 to 31.05.2010 retrograde
14.09.2010 to 18.10.2010 combust
27.01.2011 to 13.06.2011 retrograde
21st/23rd/24th/26th/27.09.2011 to 31.10.2011 combust
15.05.2012 to 25.06.2012 retrograde

As I said, I had about past 3 months' trouble during this period.

Please also note that Saturn will again retrograde to Virgo in 2012 during May-June (See dates above). This period will again bring the effect of Virgo Saturn for the concerned natives.

Personally, I consider combustion of Jupiter more important than combustion of Saturn!

Any comments will be welcome.

Regards,

Saindhavi

User avatar
Saindhavi

[Saindhavi]

by lovacrs » Thu Sep 22, 2011 6:59 am
Saindhavi ji,

I am a little confused. I thought the general rule is that malefics and specially Sa is better stronger rather than weaker. Combustion makes it weak and hence more malefic.

[Saindhavi]

by Saindhavi » Thu Sep 22, 2011 12:33 pm
lovacre,

As I wrote above, it's not the same for everyone. It really depends on the current placement of Saturn and how Saturn is in your chart, the total strength of your chart, Dasha running and also the transit of other planets. If all this places Saturn in a benefic position for you, then combustion should weaken the benefic effect and is not desirable.

If all this makes Saturn malefic for you, then combustion should weaken the malefic effect. Remember, combustion means that the planet is giving less effect than normal.

Whether this less effect is good or bad varies in each case.

Remember also, that except Jupiter, no other planet is completely benefic or malefic in all cases. It depends upon the position and aspect of the planet, among other things (Many astrologers consider even Jupiter to be malefic in some cases, while others consider it to be neutral when not in a good position).

Hence, even Saturn is not completely malefic in all cases. It can - and does - give good effect in many cases.

As for the effect of combust Saturn, there are conflicting views about it, suggesting that this is not a well-researched area from real life cases. That's why I suggested that the interested people may observe how the combustion period of Saturn has gone in last 2 years and also how it goes in the coming month. I posted my own experiences, because Saturn in my chart is in such a position that while in Virgo it should give mildly malefic result, if not combust - and that's what it has shown so far. I said I'll come back to say how the combustion period goes. If you like, you can make this observation from past 2 years and in the coming month.

[Saindhavi]

by thirthachengappa » Thu Sep 22, 2011 1:52 pm

by Saindhavi » Thu Sep 22, 2011 6:03 pm
Remember also, that except Jupiter, no other planet is completely benefic or malefic in all cases. It depends upon the position and aspect of the planet, among other things (Many astrologers consider even Jupiter to be malefic in some cases, while others consider it to be neutral when not in a good position).

Saindhavi I agree with the underlined part. I think functional Malefic / Benefic positions have a greater say than natural traits. Moreover Guru who owns bad houses can be neutral at best.
Regards

[Saindhavi]

by Saindhavi » Thu Sep 22, 2011 1:57 pm
Thanks, Tirtha!

by lovacrs » Thu Sep 22, 2011 4:24 pm
Thanks Saindhavi ji.

Though Sa is not combust in my chart, I know one native who has it at 00Li41.
Let me watch and see.

by rvenkats » Thu Sep 22, 2011 9:13 pm
Dear Saidhavi,

Very very informative. I am curious about what will be the general impact of this combustion for children born in Cp, Aq, Li and Ta Lagnas for whom he is a benefic and for the rest to whom he is either neutral (Vi, Ge) or outright malefic. Combustion weakens the planet to various levels depending on the degrees from the sun but it cannot totally destroy its significations - as I understand it. It seems as I read through the post that a malefic under combustion is most desirable while benefic is not. Can it be that simple? Being a newbie, I haven't yet come across any text that alludes to that. How does his aspect change? My understanding that even if a benefic planet like Guru becomes a functional malefic and becomes neutral, his aspects are always beneficial. How will such a statement translate for Sani.

Regards,
Venkat

[Saindhavi]

by Saindhavi » Fri Sep 23, 2011 3:26 am
Venkatji,

Thanks for your response!

You are right that any plane becomes completely combust only for a day when it is at the same degree to the Sun.

As I said, one has to relate current transit to the charts and so, it is different in each case, even if Saturn is a Yogakaraka or the Lagna lord of an Ascendant. For example, it is a Yogakaraka for Libra Ascendant, but in Virgo it is in 12th and aspects the 2nd house, strengthening Rahu who is currently there. So, its combustion reduces this effect and hence should be good, even if it is a Yogakaraka. This is especially because it will be exalted in Libra soon after its combustion period ends.

Of course, this general reading gets modified in each case, depending upon how Saturn is in the chart of a Libra Ascendant person. If it is giving good effect in the Lagna chart, its non-combustion state should give mild affliction in Virgo 12th house and combustion should be good. But if it is giving bad effect in Lagna chart, its non-combustion should be troublesome and combustion should make the affliction mild.

This gets further modified according to the Dasha running - Jupiter Mahadasha will reduce the affliction if Jupiter is good. But Saturn Mahadasha if Saturn is benefic in Lagna chart may reduce the benefic effects of Saturn in the chart, while reducing the effect of 12th Virgo placement. On the other hand, if the Lagna chart has bad placement of Saturn and this is Saturn Mahadasha running, combustion is desirable.

So, you have to calculate from each specific chart.

Earlier, we discussed so much about Jupiter and Rahu in your daughter's case, we didn't really notice her Saturn, who is her Lagna lord. So, you have to see where her Saturn is in her chart.

But in general, in an Aquarius chart, Virgo is in the 8th house, from where Saturn will aspect the 10th house, 2nd house and the 5th house. Out of these, aspects on 10th and 2nd will be malefic, unless there are other combinations to protect these houses. Saturn's 8th placement in Virgo will also be malefic.

If Saturn is good in the chart, combustion should be benefic in Virgo, though this may result in absent-mindedness, forgetfulness and lethargy to some extent, because Saturn is also the Lagna Lord.

If Saturn is bad in the chart, combustion is desirable, despite the absentmindedness etc.

This further gets modified by the Dasha running and other planets' transit as well.

So, you can see the chart and calculate this and observe if any differences arise in the on month period.

But as I said above, I regard's Jupiter's combustion more important than Saturn's!

[Saindhavi]

by astroboy » Fri Sep 23, 2011 6:37 am
Right, lets start from the beginning, lets see what the texts say,

B.P.H.S chapter 4 sloka 7. The positional strength of a planet is one full Rupa if he occupies his exaltation sign. This strength is 3/4 when he is in his Moola-Trikona sign. It is 1/2 when he occupies his own sign. If he is in his friend's house, his bala is 1/4. In an inimical house he gets little bala. The strength is nil when he is in his fall or eclipsed by the rays of the Sun.


sloka 15, Ch. IV of Uttara Kalamrita - Benefic grahas, if combust, do lose their potency, while malefics become more mischievous. Shani and Shukra are said to retain their rays even in combustion.


Phaladeepika chapter 7 sloka 2 People born in a royal family alone will become kings provided their birth charts do not show them born under any Dur Yoga or the planets are not eclipsed by the rays of the Sun. Three or more planets in Angular Houses at birth identical with their own or exaltation sign promise kingship to people born of royal families. Others under the above Yogas will become their equals only or sometimes kings.


Phaladeepika chapter 10 sloka 4 When the 7th house or its lord is associated with or aspected by or occupied between malefics or is in its depression or inimical sign or eclipsed by the rays of the Sun, loss of wife can safely be predicted.


Phaladeepika chapter 10 sloka 9. If the sign in the 7th house is an even one and the lord of that house and Venus also similarly occupy an even sign and if the lords of the 5th and 7th houses being powerful are not set by the rays of the Sun, the native is sure to be blessed with wife and children.


Phaladeepika chapter 12 sloka 19. If in a nativity the lord of the 5th house occupies its inimical or depression sign or is set by the rays of the Sun or is posited in any of the Dusthanas i.e., the 6th, the 8th, or the 12th house,; or the planet occupying the 5th house is similarly situated or happens to be the lord of any one of the houses, viz. the 6th, the 8th or the 12th, Childlessness is an inevitable effect. The astrologer should find out the source of it by an examination of the particular deity, tree and animal represented by the sign owned by that planet.


Phaladeepika chapter 13 sloka 19. When the lord of the Ascendant is associated with an inauspicious planet and is set by the rays of the Sun or is in its full or is in an inimical sign, the death of the native has to be foretold, when the same lord in his transit happens to be situated in one of the Dusthanas (6th, 8th or 12th) or the Ascendant or is somehow connected with it. The same event may also be predicted reckoned with the rising Navamsha, the Drekkana Asc. or the sign occupied by the Moon.


Phaladeepika chapter 15 sloka 3. Out of the Ascendant and other Houses examined in order, whichever House has its lord occupying the 8th place or obscured by the rays of the Sun or is in depression or in an inimical house while no benefic planet aspects or conjoins it, the result is total destruction of such a House. The House will be incapable of giving any good result even if an auspicious planet other than its lord in similar condition occupies the House; should a malefic be in that position, the total destruction of that House would be the outcome.


Phaladeepika chapter 16 sloka 18. If in a nativity, the lord of the 6th house occupies a Dusthana (6th, 8th or 12th) in its depression or inimical sign or be eclipsed by the rays of the Sun; and if the lord of the Asc. is stronger than him and if the Sun occupies the 9th house, the enemies of the native will not be able to stand before him;


Sarvartha chintamani chapter 6 sloka 20. If Rahu, Moon are eclipsed by the rays of the Sun, the native gets his belly cut open.


Sarvartha chintamani chapter 7 sloka 25. If the lord of the 1st of the 7th house is in its sign of debilitation, or is eclipsed by the rays of the Sun, and is situated in malefic Shashti amsha, the native has to marry a second time.

[Saindhavi]

by Saindhavi » Fri Sep 23, 2011 12:45 pm
Astroboy,

Thanks for all those great quotations! I'm impressed by your labour.

So, we come to the next stage of questions -

As a practising astrologer, how do you apply those quotations on the current topic of combustion of Virgo Saturn being discussed?

What kind of results do you derive by using those quotations, on the combustion of Saturn in Virgo?

Further, what kind of results do you derive by using these quotations on the past dates of combustion of Virgo Saturn as mentioned above (give or take a few days)? Can you illustrate with any particular Ascendant?

Finally, while applying these rules, do you find at any stage that one or more of these rules don't work in any particular case?

(Note that I'm using the hypothesis that these rules may or may not always work in every single case. This hypothesis may be proved wrong or right - both possibilities are open.

Hence, we don't have to try to prove every rule right by using just any method. If a consistent method of reading charts doesn't prove a rule right, let's accept that this rule is not working in this particular case - and I know I am deviating from the orthodox astrological vision here).

Regards

Saindhavi

[shikham]

Please also note that Saturn will again retrograde to Virgo in 2012 during May-June (See dates above). This period will again bring the effect of Virgo Saturn for the concerned natives.

Hi saindhavi,

Good Morning!!!

Excellent write up on combustion of Saturn. As per Raman, Saturn will remain in libra even in May and June 2012. Please clarify.

[Saindhavi]

Shikham,

Thanks!

Well, I sure hope it does. I have already had had enough of it and its retrogression into Virgo will be really bad for me - for all my keeping a brave face about a "mildly oppressive Saturn!"

But I have not calculated the dates of retrogression. I have only taken others' calculations.

I do hope Raman is right. I would rather have Saturn in Libra than in Virgo.

[shikham]

Well, I sure hope it does. I have already had had enough of it and its retrogression into Virgo will be really bad for me - for all my keeping a brave face about a "mildly oppressive Saturn!"

Hi Saindhavi,

why it will be bad for you? Please explain.

[Saindhavi]

Mylilangel,

Sun never gets combust. Other planets (except Rahu, Ketu and Moon) get combust when they come within a range of certain degrees from Sun - in this case, they are located in the same zodiac sign as the Sun, unless Sun is near the edge of a sign and a planet in the next sign comes within the combustion range.

This phenomenon is completely different from Saturn's or Rahu's aspect on Sun from another zodiac sign. The latter also has its effect on reducing the power of Sun, but it is not called combustion.

[felix1]

Greetings Saindhavi Ji!

Thanks for the great write up. Beginners in astrology like myself will benefit a lot.
Just today I posted a chart of a friend here:
viewtopic.php?f=18&t=12134

Sg Ascendent, It has Saturn just about a degree away from the Sun who is in Moolatrikona.
If you find time, I'd love to get your opinions on it. He is currently running Saturn MD itself and Venus Bhukti. Venus is debilitated. (So, Combust saturns' MD and debilitated Venus's Bhukti...). Will the current combustion of Saturn bring relief? For him, the last 2/3 years have been immensely difficult. Just about everything: Health, Family, Work, Wedding all went sour. When Saturn MD started, work pressure mounted, but it brought favourable results.

Thanks.

PS: You mentioned that people with Saturn Combust could observe the effects and post here so that all can benefit. This person works with me, so if there is anything in particular you want to know, I can get the info.

[USR]

It is not correct to celebrate Saturn's combustion.Combustion of Saturn owning two houses can cause loss of leaders working for public cause,seperation/loss connected with it's lordship, public health hazards effecting masses/individuals(as 8th lord) etc.
The Governments also gets disturbed in all respects as Sun gets influenced by Saturn.
Better everybody pray Ravi and Shani during this period .

[astro123]

Respected Saindhaviji,

Thanks very much for your quick reply. but it seems that my question was not clear enough.

When I asked about the effect of this combustion on sun, my assertion was that the combustion of saturn by Sun caused by the proximity of Sun and saturn in transit can adversely affect the sun as well. As Sun and Saturn are bitter enemies, the combustion of Sun can lead to reduction in power for Saturn. What I wanted to know was that how would the Sun also be affected in this process of proximity with his arch rival?

Quoting my own case, in my natal chart, my Sun is aspected by rahu and saturn giving me health concerns from time to time.
And now in transit it seems that my current sudden health issues on multiple fronts coincide exactly with the proximity of Sun and saturn?!

Hope I am clearer this time.
Thanks and regar

ds

@lilangel

Yep ur right, close proximity of Sun and Saturn to each other ain't good for either of them since they are enemies thereby afflicting them ..If u happen to run joint periods of Saun and saturn ,it may be a tough time depending on their lordships,placement and inherent strength in ur natal chart..Again this is a Temp phenomenon as Sun is expected to move to libra this month..Also Saturn is not combust yet

[Saindhavi]

Mylilangel,

It is said that during combustion the energy of the combust planet is overshadowed by Sun because of its close proximity. Hence, a combust planet - whether inimical or friendly - can't influence the Sun to its fullest extent. During partial combustion it keeps on affecting the native in a reduced manner but is not strong enough to affect Sun, who is more powerful than the combust planet.

As for your health problems, your whole chart has to be seen. I don't think Saturn's combustion should cause health problems for you, unless it happens to be your Ascendant lord.

In my own chart, Saturn is partially combust with Sun in the 6th house of illnesses. But Saturn has not given me any illness. Sun creates problems for me during its Dashas, but Sun is powerful there and would give those effects anyway. It's not because of Saturn being close to Sun.

It's precisely because of a partially combust Saturn that I face reduced negative impact of Saturn as I described in the post above.

Astro123,

Saturn is combust now - partially - by all methods of calculation. Deep combustion of any planet comes only for a day when it is at the same degree as the Sun. Otherwise, all planets remain only partially combust during the combustion period.

[milredr]

Hi Saindhavi,

As per Brihat Jataka, planets in exaltation, in mooltrikona,in own,friendly,inimical,debilitation houses and combust with sun give good in full, three-fourths,half quarter,little and nil results respectively. What are your thoughts?

When it comes to Saturn nd Venus, exemption is given in the matter of determination of longevity.

Also i read somewhere else that if sun is debilitated, it cannot cause combustion, more so if combustion happens in a sign where the so called combust planet gets exalted. For eg: saturn's combustion in libra? Does it get completely nullified? What are your thoughts?

Regards

[Saindhavi]

Milredr ji,

I don't think a combust planet will give zero effect unless it is deep combust i.e., at the same degree as the Sun.

At least my partially combust Saturn has given me effect with a reduced intensity - the effect is the same in terms of positive or negative as the case may be, but its intensity is less. That is, its positive effect is less and its negative effect is also less than in cases of people with a non-combust Saturn.

My Saturn is at 10 degrees from the Sun.

A short while back I saw the charts of 2 natives on this site, both of them having partially combust Mars in debilitation sign in Cancer.

One had this Mars in 2nd house and she got married during Mars period, while the other had it in the 11th house and he got financial gains during Mars period.

If this is an index to go by, partially combust Saturn in Libra should give more effect than say, a partially combust Saturn in Scorpio. However, its effect should be less than a non-combust exalted Saturn in Libra.

There has to be a difference between combust exalted Saturn and non-combust exalted Saturn.

Sun in Libra won't give the effect of the house where it is, but it will still impact Saturn in close proximity.

This is what I feel should happen, but in reality it may be different.

Since Saturn is going to be exalted from mid-November, perhaps it would be a good exercise to make a thread about it and ask the members to bring their experiences of retrograde, combust and non-combust Saturn in Libra.

Perhaps you can start such a thread and we all can give our experiences.

[astroboy]

I cant find a better explaination than this,

by thirthachengappa » Sat Aug 06, 2011 11:24 am
You must understand what the word "Combust" mean in the astrological context. Combust planets move so close to the sun that they become invisible to us. Being thus eclipsed, and because when combust they are furtherest away from earth, ( And thus not being able to influence us as much ) the Rishis concluded that the planet becomes exceedingly weak and thus unable to "influence us as much", the more it moves away from the earth by getting closer to the sun, or the sun getting closer to the planet (Thus the percentage of combustion).

Every planet acts according to its natural traits and is able to influence us proportionate to the closeness of the combustion.The closer the planet is to the Sun, The more severely combust it will be. The word Combustion when used in astrological terms does not have to be interpreted literally. The dictionery meaning of "Combust" states that the word means :- " To catch fire; burst into flame - To burn up, a chemical change, especially oxidation, accompanied by the production of heat and light., which is not the case. I feel the right word to use would be Asta which means "to set" Saravali calls it /"Vikala". Local astrologers call it the same.

Now since the lady has reclused herself from LOVA, let me add my two bits. A planet which is combust is weak. How do you make it strong? place him in a exalted sign, or in a Dig bala Rashi, or give him a strong Shadbala, and AV strength. This is why you will find that even if a planet is 99 PCT combust, and if a planet is exalted, The planet will still give its effects. You can check that out practically and verify my statement.

[milredr]

Agree with you. Atleast true in my case atleast. Also want to know your views on:

1. Whether a debilitated sun reduces the combustion to a large extent?
2. Whether an exalted planet with a debilitated sun, nullifies combustion?

Regards

[Murad]

How about if its Retrograde and Combust?

[explorings]

Unfortunately I do not wish to celebrate combustion of Saturn

In my natal chart, saturn is positioned in my virgo lagna. I enjoyed its direct transit in Virgo during the past 2.5 yrs. where I had short foreign trips, enjoyed benefits by superiors and govt., additional responsibilities that helped me developed personally as well as professionally. However, its combustion in Virgo coincides with a troublesome and extremely stressful phase for me. Its retrograde period was the worst for me, I had too many health issues, emotional distress, personal as well as professional setbacks, etc.

Its current combustion, is causing unnecessary stress, mental anguish, etc. in my life again and is completely stressing me out. I can definitely see a pattern here with Saturn's movements... I can't wait for November 15, 2011!

[Saindhavi]

Explorings,

Oh, that's too bad.

Well, I look forward to Saturn's exaltation in Libra too.

Even a mild effect of a partially combust Saturn is a lot, though I have been saved the real onslaught of it.

I know a partially combust Saturn exalted in Libra will not give me its full exaltation effect, but it will be better than its placement in Virgo now.

[Saindhavi]

Astroboy,

Has something occurred to you yet?

Your Lagna lord is a strong Saturn, while my Saturn is partially combust.

Venus is amongst the several planets influencing my Ascendant and your Venus is partially combust!

What do you make out of it?

Milredr ji,

Do you have a combust Saturn? What has been your experience with it?

How much combust is your Saturn and how is it in your natal chart - benefic/malefic/associated with Lagna or Moon sign?

I discovered another effect of my partially combust Saturn -

I just looked at my past Sadhe Sati period and found that almost the whole of its 7 and a half years' period were quite good for me!

So, now I look forward to my next phase of Sadhe Sati again, which is still a few years away!