Exaltation & Debilitation

[thirthachengappa]

Good evening Gopal Ji,

Nice to see a new and refreshing thought. I agree with the 5/11 axis. However, both the planets, (shukra In Vishaka ^ Guru debilitated in D9) and chandra (11th lord) are in debilitation - debilitated nakshatra lords what shall we infer in the chart?

[ChandraLagna]

Dear all,

My first post was to explain the wealth & foreign stay of the native without bringing in debilitation aspects.
I think we have digressed into discussion on debilitation and exaltation; it'd be interesting to hear about how double debilitation plays out!

1. The 30 roomed house is an excellent analogy. However, one must guard against the assumption that the exaltation, or debilitation increases, or decreases at a uniform rate across all the degrees of the house. The house of an otherwise wise and intelligent man may also have a bar-room for guests. Similarly, a house of ill repute could have a beautiful Pooja room. Why is this important? We'll see later on. In other words, the progression of exaltation or debilitation is not a linear function of degrees.

2. The second point is that the planet has a problem with the environs of the house and hence gets debilitated. Well, we know that Shukra debilitates in house of friend Merc and gets exalted in house of his enemy Jupiter. So planet getting a problem with his rasi owner may not be applicable to all planets and Rasis. There could be deeper reasons for why exaltation and debilitation happens at a particular point /Nakshatra and to be honest I do not claim to know them all - but will find out.


The classical dictum is known......

If a planet is in his Moolatrikona Rasi he gets 36 Shastayamsa of strength. In the Rasi of Adhimitra he gets 22.5 Shastayamsa and 15 Shastayamsa if he is in the sign of a friend. He gets 7.5 Shastayamsa in a neutral Rasi, 3.75 in the Rasi of an enemy and 1.875 Shastayamsa in the Rasi of Adhishatru. A planet at his deep exaltation point, is allotted 60 Shastayamsa. If he is at his deep debilitation point, his strength is nil.


For Venus, Jup is enemy, so Ven gets 3.75 in Pisces in all of Rasi. But hit the exaltation point and what happens? His strength jumps to 60. In this case, the house of a pious man has Mr Sensual Enjoyment feeling more and more frustrated, and lo behold - what does he see? A wonderfully stocked bar in room # 27. Mr. Shukra is happy. That is true, or deep exaltation.

Venus is in Virgo - sign of a mutual friend. So, he starts with 22.5. Come debilitation and what happens? Strength goes to 0.0. This is true, or deep debilitation.


Then, in Taurus ,Moon is exalted in @ 3 deg. Rest is Moolatrikona. So, for first three deg, strength is 60, then 36. If the exaltation is in the entire Rasi, how come one rasi has both Exaltation AND moola trikona for the same planet?

This just tells us that we must treat exaltation and debilitation points like in a titration in college chemistry. One extra drop and the colour changes.


Rasi is one part of the story. But look carefully at the debilitation or exaltation points. When Venus is truly debilitated, you will see that it is in Virgo in D1, D2, D9, D7. Certainly this hidden aspects of debilitation needs to be considered.

Enough said on the true / deep debilitation & exaltation....but how does the double debilitation work really to explain this chart?

[Anjaneya]

Very informative post Arun ji.

I am from jabalpur, and know this jabalpur guy. He has couple of fraud cases running against him in jabalpur high court. He is very daring went against waves. However, tides have turned against him and is in trouble lately.

Coming back to topic.
I have seen a very interesting thing, I have debilitated moon with 1.33 deg in scorpio. But in mooltrikona(cancer) in navamsa. Infact when moon is in 0-3.2 degree in scorpio(this also includes deepest debilitation point i.e. 3 degree), moon is always in mooltrikona in navamsa. Doesn't that always create neech bhanga, if not raja yoga, for moon?

I might be wrong or missing something but I find it really amusing.


Thanks,
Abhishek

[Sunds]

Thank you sir.

Sir, the whole point is Rasi is not to be taken as Deb, its the precise degree, which actually indicates the Nakshatra & its pada which gives the exaltation, and also the debilitation.

I already said sir, your Budha cannot be debilitated. You can never write as well as you do, if your communication Lord is fracked ! Budha is in his OWN nakshatra, the divine Revati !

Let me look also at master blaster chart. Pl do supply more such instances of double-deb charts if you have any. BTW, pl refer to the Madikeri coffee estate boy, born 2009. His Jup is in almost perfect exaltation - 6deg. And we see the results!

Hi ChandraLagna,
You want a double deb. chart....I will give you a triple deb. one.....My own chart....ofcoarse I am not in league with sachin etc....but am quite interesting myself....lease look into it....
DOB: 6/Sept./1968
Time: 3.40 AM
Place: Chennai.
Regards,
Sunder.

[thirthachengappa]

by abhishekdubey » Sat Aug 27, 2011 1:20 am
Very informative post Arun ji.
I am from jabalpur, and know this jabalpur guy. He has couple of fraud cases running against him in jabalpur high court. He is very daring went against waves. However, tides have turned against him and is in trouble lately.

AB, it was you who posted the data. is the above quoted story true? Please clarify. I dont think he is a fraud because of the strength of the 9th lord. But then you never know

[ChandraLagna]

Thank you, Akash

That's a good point you bring out. The significations of true debilitation are beyond the mere lying in the exact degree. The overall strength of the graha varies because it gets placed in different varga charts in a particular way. I already mentioned about Venus - how it gets debilitated in varga charts when it is truly debilitated. Now you bring the example of CHandra.

Please check out the math on Sani too. If it is truly at debilitation degree in Rasi, it will be be in Libra in Navamsa - a cancellation in some sense. And, the converse holds true, too. There is a message here for us to read when we get such placements.


@ Thirtha: Pl see D-6 varga of this chart. Its interesting, to say the least.

[ChandraLagna]

Arunji/ AB:

Dispositor of Planet is of great importance--------Should we consider Dispositor as the Rashi Lord or NK Lord ?

Hello Ashcan: Somewhere in the marriage section there is a chart.....the rasi depositors are all well placed, and there is GURU In 7H, yet there was an inter-caste love marriage.

TO answer your question - both are important. The simple [and at the same time confusing thing] is not the exclusion of one effect due to some other effect. They all play out. What that complex cocktail does thus becomes hard to describe!

[Hina]

Ok, For example- if a saturn is in degrees 20-23 in aries, it will be in libra in D9. Debilitation is cancelled. Say Saturn is in 26-30 in Aries, it will be in Pushkar navamsha in D9. Deb. is cancelled.
In the rest of the rashi, it will be in enemy's house, not really deb.

The degrees mentioned by AB - it will be at the last few- probably mrita avastha. How much good would that do?

I am sure other planets will also have such complications.

[astroboy]

by thirthachengappa » Sat Aug 27, 2011 6:51 am

by abhishekdubey » Sat Aug 27, 2011 1:20 am
Very informative post Arun ji.
I am from jabalpur, and know this jabalpur guy. He has couple of fraud cases running against him in jabalpur high court. He is very daring went against waves. However, tides have turned against him and is in trouble lately.

AB, it was you who posted the data. is the above quoted story true? Please clarify. I dont think he is a fraud because of the strength of the 9th lord. But then you never know

Abhishek dubey, first of all, he was just born in Jabalpur because his parents were both posted in Jabalpur at the time this person was born. Both parents were officers in a Bank. He left jabalpur at the age of 6 and has never visited that place since then. Kindly note. He also does not have any business interests in Jabalpur. I know this because I represent him in India.

secondly, This man is a Mangalorian Bunt not a native of Jabalpur. He came to Mangalore when he was 6 years old and joined a school in mangalore, completed his education from a reputed college in mangalore. He was the president of his college too. He then started a business in the shipping industry, before moving to the gulf in 1992. There he partnered up with a person from Dubai to form a shipping company. He has been a friend and a business contact since 1995, But has always been associated with our firm right from the time he started his Business in Mangalore. I worked with this company for a while because I wanted a perspective on how a ship owner functions. He has been in Dubai to date, and has a roaring business there.

I hope that clears your doubts. . Its wrong on your part to assume such things.

[astro123]

Very informative post Arun ji.

I am from jabalpur, and know this jabalpur guy. He has couple of fraud cases running against him in jabalpur high court. He is very daring went against waves. However, tides have turned against him and is in trouble lately.

Coming back to topic.
I have seen a very interesting thing, I have debilitated moon with 1.33 deg in scorpio. But in mooltrikona(cancer) in navamsa. Infact when moon is in 0-3.2 degree in scorpio(this also includes deepest debilitation point i.e. 3 degree), moon is always in mooltrikona in navamsa. Doesn't that always create neech bhanga, if not raja yoga, for moon?

I might be wrong or missing something but I find it really amusing.


Thanks,
Abhishek

Wow..Just on the basis of Birth specifics u assumed he is a fraud ...!!

[shilpa]

Very informative post Arun ji.

I am from jabalpur, and know this jabalpur guy. He has couple of fraud cases running against him in jabalpur high court. He is very daring went against waves. However, tides have turned against him and is in trouble lately.
hello absihek
i think you must validate if the same individual is being discussed here ?



Coming back to topic.
I have seen a very interesting thing, I have debilitated moon with 1.33 deg in scorpio. But in mooltrikona(cancer) in navamsa. Infact when moon is in 0-3.2 degree in scorpio(this also includes deepest debilitation point i.e. 3 degree), moon is always in mooltrikona in navamsa. Doesn't that always create neech bhanga, if not raja yoga, for moon?

I might be wrong or missing something but I find it really amusing.


Thanks,
Abhishek

[Anjaneya]

Oops, I apologize. I should validate and shouldn't have wrote this. I did not had any intention to degrade anyone' image. Any court or fraud case is normal for prosperous guys, a symbol that he is courageous. I just guessed it from his DOB and business he is doing from other forums by astroboy. I take my words.

[Anjaneya]

[quote="Hina"]Ok, For example- if a saturn is in degrees 20-23 in aries, it will be in libra in D9. Debilitation is cancelled. Say Saturn is in 26-30 in Aries, it will be in Pushkar navamsha in D9. Deb. is cancelled.
In the rest of the rashi, it will be in enemy's house, not really deb.

The degrees mentioned by AB - it will be at the last few- probably mrita avastha. How much good would that do?

I am sure other planets will also have such complications.[/quote]

Hina jee,

Correct, saturn 20-23.2 degrees in aries, neech bhanga is automatic, since Saturn is in exalted state in navamsa. Such a guys must have done dharmic karm (good deeds) in past lives, and have blessing from the lord.

Yes... moon in this range(0-3.2 degree in scorpio) is in mrita avastha. Again nakshatra changes after 3.2 degree in scorpio to Anuradha. But thats strange, when moon is in extreme fall in birth chart, it is in mooltrikona in navamsa.

There could be many other case as these. Since there are 9 pada in a zodiac. There is 3/4 probability of having a debilitated planet in a pada wherein it is exalted in navamsa. This applies to Exalted planet as well. Such as, when sun in bharani-3 where it is exalted in birth chart and debilitated in navamsa. (thankfully I have sun and venus exalted but just a pada away to get deb in navamsa)

Such unfortunate or fortunate yog could be related to deeds from past lives.

[Khoo Hock Leong]

Dear Arung321

When a planet like Venus is in Pisces, he is not considered to be in its enemy sign. He is considered to be in its exaltation sign. I think this has been mentioned by classics and if not by well-known commentators on the classics. So Venus is in Pisces is straight away in its exaltation sign. His exaltation increases until he comes to 27 degree Pisces after which his exalation gets diminished.

Same with all the other planets except some planets, after they have passed their deep exaltation points, they become Moolatrikona in status. For example, the Moon in Taurus like what you said where in the 1st 3 degrees the Moon gradually gets increasingly exalted after which the rest of Taurus is considered by the Moon to be its Moolatrikona sign. Similarly, for the Sun in Aires, after he has passed 10 degrees, he becomes Moolatrikona in Aires.

So even within exaltation signs, some planets quickly get diminished in status to Moolatrikona after passing their deep exalation points. Mutual friend or mutual enemy signs, that separate dictum, takes a back seat where exaltation signs are considered and must not be used together with the concepts of exaltation and Moolatrikona.

Now Sarvanth Chintamani translated by Vyankatesh Sharmar has some pages explaining why planets get their deep exaltation points in particular signs and particular Nakshatras. For example for Jupiter in Cancer, the explanation is :

Jupiter gets exalted in the 5th degree of Cancer, belonging to the asterism "Pushya" whose lord is Saturn. Jupiter is the significator of wealth. Hence it has plenty of riches. It is also the most spiritual planet. Hence it is fed up with wealth. It believes in the maxim that man does not live by bread alone. Hence its aim is spiritual Samadhi, which is a state of "Shoonya" or absence of matter. This state is easily afforded by Saturn. Hence Jupiter gets exalted in the asterism Pushya. Here again emotions and desires are hinderances in Samadhi. Jupiter's exaltation is tested in the emotional sign of Cancer. No other sign affords Samadhi and emotional ground. Hence Cancer is most appropriate.

Similarly for the others where the sign is first describes as a testing ground and within the said Nakshatra where the planet gets deeply exalted, the testing is particularly fine tuned to give the best effects of that plane. For example in the case of Venus :

Venus gets exalted in 27th degree of Pisces which falls in the asterism Revati belonging to Mercury. Venus is a most luxury loving and sensuous planet, is normally averse to the precepts of the shastras denoted by Jupiter. But when he gets the spiritual intellect of Mercury he gets changed spiritually and then Pisces constituting a testing ground for him no longer remains a problem for hi. No other sign containing the asterism of Mercury is religious enough to offer a testing ground to Venus.

But note that Pisces is still considered an exaltation sign of Venus (the testing ground) as opposed to being the sign of Venus enemy, Jupiter.

Which comes to the point on deep debilitation the point opposite to that of deep exaltation. Jupiter is deeply debilitated in the Sun's Nakshatra of Uttara Ashada in the house Makara. Here the sign is no more offered as a testing ground but rather hampers Jupiter through and through in its expression. In Uttara Ashada ruled by Ravi, it is made worse because the king is now governing its people via rules and laws to its letter rather than in the spirit of the law. It makes a very bad king, like a tyrant. So Jupiter the Prime Minister cannot serve such a king. The King instead of being its friend becomes its curel aggressor since Jupiter cannot watch the people suffer under the tyranny of the king.

So in the same mannner, all the planets deep debilitation points can be explained.

As for the exact degree of deep exaltation or deep debilitation, I think you have hit the nail on the head which mentioned that these exact points may have something to do with the corresponding degrees in higher divisional charts where the planet correspondingly gets exalted or debilitated. It might even be that the non-planetary lords are involved (the divisions within a Rasi for that divisional chart) which are friendly or inimical in nature to that planet - you have to read the description of the non-planetary lord to guage the compatibility with the planet being placed in that division.

To be continued ........

[Khoo Hock Leong]

Continuing ......

As for the concept of double debilitation giving good effects, SO FAR the only time I subscribe to this view is when the two debilitated planets are in mutual exchange. The bond in this case is strong and the weakness of one planet is compensated by the strength of the other through dispositorship.

For one way dispositorship, however, exalted planets if disposited by a planet badly placed loses its potency for good and debilitated planet if disposited by a planet well placed diminishes its evil effects.

But let me read the thread again to see the new idea for double debilitation being proposed.

Warmest Regards
Hock Leong

[shilpa]

Dear Arung321

When a planet like Venus is in Pisces, he is not considered to be in its enemy sign. Mutual friend or mutual enemy signs, that separate dictum, takes a back seat where exaltation signs are considered and must not be used together with the concepts of exaltation and Moolatrikona.

Here again emotions and desires are hinderances in Samadhi. Jupiter's exaltation is tested in the emotional sign of Cancer. No other sign affords Samadhi and emotional ground. Hence Cancer is most appropriate.

Similarly for the others where the sign is first describes as a testing ground and within the said Nakshatra where the planet gets deeply exalted, the testing is particularly fine tuned to give the best effects of that plane. For example in the case of Venus :

To be continued ........

Khoo makes some very good and elaborate points....I add a littl bits to expand the same theme.

exlatation / debilitation is one of the few areas in astrology where the mythology based friend / enemy relations are overridden by matching the natural karkatwa of the planet with the general charcetristics of the Rasi.
continuing with the example of Venus..... it is the planet that likes to operate luxuriously, with peace, bestowing comforts on others as it's natural tendency.

and Venus gets the most amiable environment to do so in Pisces...the Rasi sign that is charcterized by easy, soft emotional, sympathetic nature.

similarly Jupiter the planet that has the natural Karkatwa of bestowing justice, knowledge, justice in a harmonious, peaceful way.......find the natural charecteristic of agressive, opportunistic capricorn most ddifcult to operate it's natural karkatwas.....while at the same time Mars feels most at home in Capricorn.......Inpsite of both Jup and Mars both being in a neutral relation with Saturn.

deep exlation or deep debilittaion is the point in that rasi where the planet is MOST comfortable or uncomforatble in that Rasi...based on the charecteristic of that Rasi and not the relationship with the lord of the rasi.
However the entire Rasi sign is the house of exalttaion / debilitation.

regards

[ChandraLagna]

Dear Khoo ji and Shilpa ji,

Thank you for your valuable comments - indeed they provide a lot of learning!

The concept of "testing" ground is indeed a novel one and I will certainly internalize this further....before I come back for clarifications! Thank you, Khoo ji!

One different explanation I have heard about Venus exaltation in Pisces is that that is the feet of the Kalapurusha Lord, Vishnu and hence Lakshmi, represented by Shukra is most comfortable there. Also, one other point to note is that even in Pisces, Shukra has Mrutyu Bhaga at 19deg.

In case of SUN, the exaltation is in Aries, but the Moola Trikona is in Leo, its own sign, so that bears a different explanation.

So, is it then to be understood that in Cancer, Jupiter does not grant wealth, but existing wealth, spirituality and other righteous things come to an end, since Jup is seeking Shoonya here.

[krishnagopal1968]

Tirtha Ji,

Thanks and apologies for my late reply. In my understanding debilitation is not a weakness in terms of finance. only the ways are opposite of exalted planet!

I have just read your's and Arung's post on start of dasa lord's entry in other thread. With such a logical bent minds, it is not difficult for you to see the charts and work out this theory.

Also Arung has quoted in that thread, Robert svoboda's point of giving a prediction like taking a flight from X to y to do Z. His view is more than right. However if arung applies that same theory here too, he will find that it works

Just off topic but, what is the use of this wealth and fortune? In this chart, fortune is as well as a misfortune. this horoscope does not hold good for either marital life or children. (not to speak of moon!)
Hope i am wrong!

[ChandraLagna]

Tirtha Ji,


Also Arung has quoted in that thread, Robert svoboda's point of giving a prediction like taking a flight from X to y to do Z. His view is more than right. However if arung applies that same theory here too, he will find that it works

Very good, sir. My attempt at the analysis of the chart was to do precisely that. No double debilitation, nothing other than plain analysis - based on nakshatras, of course. And, it works. The flight is taken and landed safely at the destination! I did not take recourse to double debilitation theorem at all !

But the point of this discussion was to investigate whether there is such a thing as double debilitation and how / why it works - so this thread is more in the nature of a test flight

There is still empirical evidence wanted on DD ...so the jury is still out on that one.

We're taking a little detour now on the exact definition of debilitation and exaltation - but definitely lot of learning for many & certainly for me....so in the meantime, Enjoy the ride !


Regards,
Arun

[Anjaneya]

With my little knowledge I think, planets might be exalted/debilitated in a particular sign but does give different result in different nakshatra in a zodiac. I think nakshatra has the last word not zodiac.

How could anyone interpret something which is been stated above i.e. Debilitated Saturn in 20-23.2 degree in aries in the Birth chart but same is exalted in navamsa. Isn't that you could asked for, if birth chart is your physical existence than navamsa is the destiny which decide the result of your effort. [u]Such debilitation[/u] is real bliss to have. Isn't nakshatra playing a role here?

Julian Assange, Charlie Chaplin or Mark zukerberg all are from anuradha(deb moon - pada 1& 2)), and you can see striking resemblance in their life. All are rebellious, psychopath, melancholic, screwed personal life and grief which helped them to become famous. ( All have quoted feature, pls glance any article about thier life if dont believe ). While if you see other celebrity with deb moon(in other nakshatra) they are different except deb moon ppl will always be melancholic. So its not wrong to say that debilitated planet do behave different in different nakshtra.


But again I have a case which might contradict my statement. I was thinking where did I saw double debilitation case. After checking my mon has double debilitation.

Sun is deb in 11th house and venus is also deb in 10th house. However, venus is along with exalted mercury in 10th house. I wonder what does that mean. She is a house wife. And, by god grace, never had shortage of money after I am born ... and living pretty much a royal life. She is a great binding force in the family but do not earn. I wonder is it because of double debilitation.

But yes another case where DD might have done the trick?

[anilesh47]

Hii astroboy,

I read the danda yoga which you have mentioned in donor lounge post. I want to give the data of person who has danda yoga, all the planets are between 10th to ascendent except ketu. He lives in abroad and on work permit. He is unmarried. But very nice person. There is a asc lord and 10th lord exchanging places. So i think danda yoga not works in his case.. well not sure abt it. As a expert You can analyse this. If you allow i can give the data.

Regards
Nilesh

[astro123]

[quote="abhishekdubey"]With my little knowledge I think, planets might be exalted/debilitated in a particular sign but does give different result in different nakshatra in a zodiac. I think nakshatra has the last word not zodiac.

quote]

Then how do u explain Saturn's Exaltation in libra a sign owned by Venus...Libra has 3 NK's owned by Mars,Rahu and Jupiter all 3 not exactly the greatest friends of Saturn BUT Libra as a sign itself is ruled by venus, the friendliest planet to Saturn..So who takes precedence..?? Saturn is deb in the sign of aries whis has bharani NK (rules by Venus) But still Saturn is Deb ,right ?

[amitns]

Hi Gurus

We have read in earlier threads that if a graha is debilitated in rashi but is exhalted in navamsha, the person will eventually achieve success, the navamcha graha overcoming the rashi debilitation. What happens if the graha is uccha in rashi and debilitated in navamsha? Does it mean success in initial years and failure later on? Or does it simply mean that the uccha graha never lives to its potential? Or does it mean a good early life and bad old age ?

[Anjaneya]

Dear Astro123 jee,

Fact of matter is that this topic has many open question and no closed answer : )

Going by your logic, why Mars is debilitated in moon sign cancer despite mars being so intimate and dear to moon and exalted in saturn(enemy or not the best of friend) sign Capricorn.

Saturn, being outcasted by his dad (sun) due to skin color, is exalted and happy in the sign where justice is done i.e. Libra. Saturn purpose is solved where there is equality and balance. He is not comfortable in king's palace.

I think saturn's good/bad place is defined from sun's good/bad place. Saturn will always be comfortable in a place far-off from seat of sun's exaltation point and vice versa. One good example is Bharani Nakshtra-3 (venus is lord). This is a place where exalted sun in rasi chart gets debilitated in navamsa, and debilitated saturn gets exalted in navamsa. So we can say that saturn exaltion point is derived from sun. Also this NK, despite being in exaltation zodiac of sun, causing ucch bhang yoga.

I wonder if divisional charts also comes into picture. For eg, moon is debilitated in vishaka-4 but in divisional chart moon is mostly in mooltrikona or exalted state.

As Arunsg said, a little detour on exact defination of exaltation/debilitaion continues

[Sunds]

I feel this discussion will bring about more clarity regarding the concept of exaltation/debilitation ....I have been into astrology for the past 5 yrs. or more and never did it even occur to me that there are planets who have deep exaltation points which will bring them to the debilitation house in the navamsa....Thus bringing about ucch bhang yoga......Then why did those sages specify those degrees if only it is going to lead to bhanga....This is very confusing....I am yet to see any rationale into all this....
I feel the senior members should try to bring about some convincing answers for all our benefit.
- Sunder.