Some Insights Not Found in Classics

[Khoo Hock Leong]

Hi Anilesh

Let's hold your horses for the time being.

For each divisional chart that can be read as a whole like D-1, D-9, D-45 and D-60 (and mabye even D-12), the debilitated planet can have its debilitation cancelled in that chart only. But the only exception is that the D-9 and D-12 if the debilitation is cancelled, meaning it becomes a hard won exaltation, this gets transferred to the Rasi and can compensate that same planet if it happens also to be debilitated in Rasi. Other charts NO!

In your case you are describing Neecha Bhanga in D-60 which cannot compensate what is happening in D-1 because there is no such thing as Rasi Tulya Shastiamsa but only Rasi Tulya Navamsa and the uncommon Rasi Tulya Dwadarsamsa. Get it?

Even then your D-60 description of Neecha Bhanga is faulty. It should be the exaltaion sign of Mercury which is Virgo and which is ruled by Mercury OR the lord of the sign which Mercury is debilitated in ie. Pisces and the Lord is Jupiter : these two planets Mercury and Jupiter should be the one that is angular to the Moon and NOT Venus! You must read the Neecha Bhanga conditon carefully.

That is why I came up this post about Mercury being ruling and exalted in Virgo. If it had been another planet that had been ruling Virgo, say Planet A, then it would be Planet A that need to be angular to the Moon for the condition to be satisfied and not Mercury then. But because Mercury is BOTH the ruler and exalted ruler of Virgo, Planet A turns out to be Mercury itself.

So you have Venus angular to the Moon which is superflous for a debilitated Mercury and you do not have Mercury or Jupiter angular to the Moon which is required.

But then another condition for debilitation to be cancelled which is that :

If the lord of the sign occupied by the debilitated planet and the lord of the
sign of its Exaltation are mutually in square to each other.

And this condition you do satisfy in D-60 chart. Mercury and Jupiter are the two planets that represent the lords mentioned in this statement and they are together and hence they are in mutual square to each other!

So far so good??

Now your exchange Yoga between Jupiter in Gemini and Mercury in Pisces does not qualify for a neecha bhanga. It is not the same as what I answered Murad. Why?

For an exchange youga to qualify for a debilitation, BOTH panets in the exchange must be debilitated. You are good in Mathematics you show know right? There must be symmetry in the definition. Not possible for one side of the see-saw to be strong and the other side of the see-saw weak and then come to the conclusion that one strong plus one weak gives an overall strong. Rather two weak gives one strong!!! Get it?

Note that Jupiter in Gemini is considered strong because it is not debilitated even though it is in enemy's sign for the purpose of using Exchange Yoga to cause Neecha Bhanga.

(Jupiter in Gemini is about to enter its deep exaltation point in Cancer and hence strong - I have analysed this before, this factor is 3 times as important over any other factors and Anuradha has confirmed it as well - but is besides the point altogether in this context of discussion).

Please read carefully what I have written above and note the punctuation marks in the appropriate places, Anilesh.

If you understand what I have written above, you can start releasing your horses.

Thanks.

Warmest Regards
Hock Leong

[anilesh47]

hahahahhaa, Dear khoo, you have really good sense of humour. Ya i understood now, so i have released my horses. Great Explanation with sweetness, It's like Teh-O-kah-dai

Regards
Nilesh

[Khoo Hock Leong]

Hi

Next principle .......

We know that planets brought up from Navamsa onto Rasi do have its effects on the conditions of a house. For such planets, in previous posts we have also taken them to have a kind of rulership and also that they also have some specialised significations. In this thread, we also allow them to participate in the settling of the definition of various Yogas like my Kemudrum Yoga from Arudha Lagna due to Ketu brought up from Navamsa which goes to my 11th Bhava in Rasi which is 2nd from my Adurha Lagna and Mars+Rahu brought up from Navamsa which goest to my 5th Bhava which is 8th from my Arudha Lagna.

However, for the definition of Yogas, we want to limit such planets brought up from Navamsa to a more subservient role. So the dictum is :

"They can be considered as affecting the conditions of a Bhava in terms of adding natural maleficity or natural beneficity to it. That is to say their particiation in Yogas in the rasi chart is limited to their count as malefic or benefic planets in the respective Bhavas as the case may be or to their conjunction (association) effects. Dispositorships and aspects should not be considered for them when talking about definition of yogas. Yogas pertain more to those planets that are stationed in the Rasi chart itself at the point of birth. Not those brought up from Navamsa. Yogas are like the personalities of an individual and we want to include only those aspects of an individual's personalities that are MARKED".

So for example if a Yoga calls for conjunction of Mercury with Venus, then we can consider positions of Mercury and Venus brought up from Navamsa as candidates for the fulfillment of this Yoga. Or if the Yoga calls for 3 beneficis in the 11th Bhava, again we can do likewise ie. consider planets brought up from Navamsa.

But if the Yoga calls for the aspect of a planet or to have the dispositor of a planet be in kendras etc., these should exclude consideration of planets brought up from Navamsa.

Note that we can still use the aspects and dispositorship principle of planets brought up from navamsa for purposes like casting specialised planetary significations and for general reading of a chart like as an alternative ruier of a Bhava or as an alternative dispositor to another planet in the Rasi chart. But not for the definition of Yogas. Yogas must limit to planets in the Rasi chart (including retrogression which places the planet in the previous sign) except for conjunction effects and for counting of malefics/benefics in the respective Bhavas.

Warmest Regards
Hock Leong

[Khoo Hock Leong]

Hi

Next principle .....

The following verse is from Chapter 17 of Horasara of Prithuyasas :

Should the Grahas be devoid of strength at birth, the effects they generate will be equally weak. This does not, however, apply to Åšani. The reverse holds good in his case.

This means Saturn must be strong in the chart to ward off evils. Most people have a misunderstanding that if Saturn is weak, then the miseries given by Saturn would be less.

Warmest Regards
Hock Leong

[chavitarun]

Hi

Next principle .....

The following verse is from Chapter 17 of Horasara of Prithuyasas :

Should the Grahas be devoid of strength at birth, the effects they generate will be equally weak. This does not, however, apply to Åšani. The reverse holds good in his case.

This means Saturn must be strong in the chart to ward off evils. Most people have a misunderstanding that if Saturn is weak, then the miseries given by Saturn would be less.

Warmest Regards
Hock Leong

Dear Khoo
namaskar
1.what about saturn in own house in th birthchart but debiliated (Neech)in navamsha
2. What if saturn is in own house in 12th place,will it be strong or week

[Khoo Hock Leong]

Hi

Next principle ......

The Lord of the Nakshatra overlaying on the cusp of the Bhava has a large say on the affairs ruled by that Bhava. A lot of astrologers use this technique and some astrologers in this forum do too.

But bear in mind from my post on Dwadarsamsa that the SPAN of the sign on a Bhava represents the WHOLE experience of that Bhava. So the Nakshatra portion overlyaing on the cusp on the Bhava although its effects are strongest, just DO NOT COVER EVERYTHING on the affairs ruled by that Bhava. That has to be always be borned in mind.

That is why we still have to fall back on sign rulership.

Warmest Regards
Hock Leong

[Khoo Hock Leong]

Hi

Next Principle ......

This is from Horasara of Prithuyasas. Only Jupiter and Mercury seems to be praised by being in the 8th Bhava. Venus has more potency in the 6th and 12th Bhavas as explained in my earlier posts, although Venus in 8th Bhava does makes one delighted - i interpret it as getting what one wants.

Åšukr is placed in Randhr, one will be of varied nature, sick, will have wife and children and one will be delighted.

In Randhr Guru contributes to long lease of life. The native will become a king, be learned and have his force of enemies destroyed.

(Note Guru was praised in Bhavartha Ratnakara in 8th Bhava only if he rules the 9th Bhava).

In Randhr Budh makes one famous, Lord of money, king and wise.

If Åšani is in Randhr Bhava, one will be wealthy, sick, will not have many sons, will be weak sighted and fickleminded.

(This was observed by Anuradha for Cancer Ascendant which has Lord Saturn ruling 8th Bhava which is a kind of Sani placed in 8th Bhava and I replied that Libra in 4th Bhava for Cancer Ascendant which is a kind of Digbala helps in this aspect of richness as well. Sani in 8th if well placed in its own sign, like what Anuradha observed, also contributes to longevity and this also contributes to the aspect of richness although this factor is not mentioned by Horasara of Prithuyasas - 8th is the future of the 4th, it enables the 4th to fully flower.).

Warmest Regards
Hock Leong

[Khoo Hock Leong]

Hi

Next principle ...

Phaladeepika has given importance to Stanth Bala more than the other ocmponents of Shad Bala. According to the classic, the Stanth Bala of a planet can be added ie. taken into account with other factors of strength of the planet like Amsa Bala, position in Navamsa etc. to determine even more accurately the strength of the planet.

Below is the table of the required Shad Bala values of the various planets in rupas. Note especiall the columns under Total and Stanth Bala.


Planet Sthan Dik Chesta Kala Ayana Total
RS RS RS RS RS RS
Sun 2-45 0-35 0-50 1-52 0-30 6-32
Moon 2-13 0-50 0-30 1-40 0-40 5-53
Mars 1-16 0-30 0-40 1-7 0-20 4-13
Mercury 2-45 0-35 0-50 1-52 0-30 6-32
Jupiter 2-45 0-35 0-50 1-52 0-30 6-32
Venus 2-13 0-50 0-30 1-40 0-40 5-53
Saturn 1-36 0-30 0-40 1-7 0-20 4-13

Warmest Regards
Hock Leong

[Dev]

Thanks Khoo.
1. What happens in the case if sthana bala is less than the required value but total shadbala is more?
2. What happens when sthana bala value is more than the required value and total shadbala is less?
What would u say about the shadbala taking into account combustion, debilitation, retrograde, etc into account, I think retro shows up in chesta bala.
3. Also in my case, chandra has highest sthana bala of 240 and then saturn 170 and then come mars and venus with 129 and others still lower, jupiter being the lowest.
In terms of shadbala, again, moon has 8.66 rupas, saturn 5.81, mercury 6.85. In terms of percentage, moon, saturn, sun, venus, mercury, mars jupiter is the order. What does it signify?

Dev

[Khoo Hock Leong]

Hi

One comment on the VPRY which I said the Dusthana lord that goes into another Dusthana should be weak in order to qualify as a VPRY. The reason I given earlier, that we do not want to make another Dusthana strong while handling the current Dusthana (the one whose lord goes into another Dusthana) affairs, still stands.

BUT note. The planet usually rules two Bhavas (other than the Sun and the Moon). In that sense if that planet concerned becomes debilitated in the Dusthana in which it is placed, although it benefits the Dusthana in which it rules, it is not good for the other Bhava which is a non-Dushthan for which it is ruling (see Shilpa's post on cancellation of maleficity).

So this point about the VPRY needing for the planet concerned to be debilitated in the Dusthana in which it is placed is actually moot since it would in turn spoil the signification of the other non-Dusthana Bhava which the planet lords. So this point although important, is not say very important.

For example :

Cancer Ascendant, Jupiter goes to Gemini in the 12th Bhava and Jupiter rules both the 6th and 9th Bhavas. While it may be good for the 6th Bhava - while your enemy is using stealth tactics you use overt tactics and vice versa but at the same time you do not want that while using the opposite tactic, for your enemy to gain the upper hand using the OPPOSITE tactic, that is the interpretation - it may not be good for the 9th Bhava - you want your fortune if subjected to vicissitudes like the Graha's dusthana placement to be not something dire with no silver cloud lining but at least an arena where you have the resources you can fight back if required.

Warmest Regards
Hock Leong

[anuradha]

Cancer Ascendant, Jupiter goes to Gemini in the 12th Bhava and Jupiter rules both the 6th and 9th Bhavas. While it may be good for the 6th Bhava - while your enemy is using stealth tactics you use overt tactics and vice versa but at the same time you do not want that while using the opposite tactic, for your enemy to gain the upper hand using the OPPOSITE tactic, that is the interpretation - it may not be good for the 9th Bhava - you want your fortune if subjected to vicissitudes like the Graha's dusthana placement to be not something dire with no silver cloud lining but at least an arena where you have the resources you can fight back if required.

Warmest Regards
Hock Leong

Sir, But it makes the person fortunate in one aspect of life i.e children, if Mars is not weak, misplaced or afflicted.regards

[Khoo Hock Leong]

Thanks Anuradha for the insight.

I see. Because the 9th Bhava is the 5th of the 5th which therfore also stands for children. And Jupiter is the karaka for children.

Lord of 9th placed in the 12th which is the 4th of the 9th shows the symbolism of the accretion of fertily. Jupiter in the 12th is just one sign behind Cancer where Jupiter is exalted and Cancer is overlaying on the 1st Bhava signifying birth. So good progeny (future generations) is promised.

But this is like you said Mars ruler of the 5th Bhava, the main house signifying children, is not weak, afflicted and badly placed.

Thanks.

Warmest Regards
Hock Leong

[Khoo Hock Leong]

Hi

Next principle ......

When the lord of a Bhava A goes into the 2nd from it and becomes well placed by sign and not combusted, not defeated by planetary war, well aspected by good planets like natural benefics or well-placed natural malefics AND when the natural ruler of this Bhava (2nd from Bhava A) where this lord is placed is at the same time ALSO STRONG BY THE SAME CRITERIA, predict that Bhava A affairs will flourish. This will be so notwithstanding that the 2nd from Bhava A can be a Dusthana (the conditions enumerated actually take care of this possibility as well).

When Bhava A is the 1st Bhava, then native can become a king - the Yoga then default to the one stated in Phaladeepika under the Chapter on Raja Yogas. Bhava A being the 7th Bhava is also a kind of Raja Yoga although to a lesser extent followed by Bhava A being the 4th or 10th Bhavas, the other kendras.

Bhava A being a trikona of the 9th or the 5th, the person becomes fortunate.

This Yoga shows the importance of the support given to Bhava A of the Bhava 2nd from it.

Warmest Regards
Hock Leong

[Khoo Hock Leong]

Hi

Next principle ....

Dhristi Aspects is a kind of two-way aspect. Hence it is somewhat similar to a mutual exchange.

Hence always study a chart to see if there are Dhrishti aspects between the lords of the good houses especially those amongst the 9th, 10th and 11th in one group and the 5th, 6th and 7th in the other (5th and 6th AND 6th and 7th are a kind of Raja Yogas, so is the 5th and 7th which gives rise to the seven cardinal virtues of men. The 5th and 6th lords if in mutual kendras in Common Signs gives rise to the Yoga as defined in BPHS in addition to the usual Raja Yoga defined here since Common Signs aspect themselves).

Warmest Regards
Hock Leong

[Khoo Hock Leong]

Hi

Next principle .......

An uncommon Yoga from Phaladeepika which requires some explanation :

Chapter 7 on Raja Yogas

16. (a) The birth be at night (b) the Moon be in Cancer identical with 10th house, (c) benefics being in depression or inimical signs be posited in the 3, 6, 11 houses or be in deep exaltation or be all posited in kendras uneclipsed. When the native has such a disposition of planets at birth, he becomes, a great king ruling the three worlds under one umbrella.

----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Why such a hodge-podge of factors?

(A) Birth at night means the malefics are powerful.

(B) At night, Moon is also powerful and so is the sign Cancer. Moon in Cancer in the 10th shows the person can easily rise up with his strong mind, personality and his luck with mundane affairs.

Either C1 or C2 or C3 must be satisfied.

(C1) Benefics in depression or inimical signs in 3rd, 6th and 11th means the malefics have full control in the chart including that of the Uppachaya Houses.

OR

(C2) Benefics in deep exaltation. This means the benefics AND malefics are powerful with the malefics acting as background influence. They do not usurp the position of the benefics.

OR

(C3) Beneifcs all posited in kendras uneclipsed. Again this means the benefics AND malefics are powerful with the malefics acting as background influence. They do not usurp the position of the benefics.

Warmest Regards
Hock Leong

[Khoo Hock Leong]

Hi

Next principle .....

How does the Ashtakavarga principle comes in in the assessment of dasas?

(For use of Ashtakavarga in transits analysis most of us are quite familiar and for general delineations there are several old posts in this forum mentioning on this so we would not go into that either).

Phaladeepika gives us two clues :

(1) During the dasa of a planet, if in its (the planet's) Ashtakavarga that particular Bhava has zero or low dots, that Bhava would suffer.

(2) During the dasa of a planet which is the lord of a Bhava, if the Ashtakavarga of a particular Bhava has zero or low dots, that Bhava (with low dots) would cause the destruction of the Bhava for which the planet is the lord.

Eg. If the Bhava with low dots is 8th from the Bhava which the planet is lording (and whose dasa is operating), the first Bhava would cause the destruction on the second Bhava.

Warmest Regards
Hock Leong

[Khoo Hock Leong]

Hi

Next principle ....

Scrutinise the lord of the lagna Ashtakavarga chart carefully according to Phaladeepika. Note those Bhavas with high benefic dots. If the lords of these Bhavas are at the same time strong and are associated with the lord of the lagna, predict beneficial effects would accrue to that Bhava.

In general I find that the three factors stated above can be factored intwo 2 factors. Satisfaction of factor (1) below alone can ensure beneficial results. But if combined with (2), the beneficial results accruing to that Bhava would be stronger.

(1) The Ashtakavarga points of that Bhava in that Lagna Lord Ashtakavarga chart.

(2) The strength of the lord of the Bhava mentioned in (1) and its association with the Lagna Lord.

Warmest Regards
Hock Leong

[Khoo Hock Leong]

Hi

Next principle ....

This question was asked by one forum member. Here is the answer from Chapter 15 of Philadeepika.

30. The following are the five recognised connections or relations between two planets —
(1) When they occupy mutually each other's sign.
(2) When they are conjoined.
(3) When there is mutual aspect between them.
(4) When they are in Kendra position with respect to each other.
(5) When they are in Trikona position with reference to each other.

Warmest Regards
Hock Leong

[Khoo Hock Leong]

Hi

Note that Ashtakavarga for general delineation, can include delineation for prediction in certain years according to the progression of the year of the life of the native after birth. Example in an earlier post, I did mention about Saturn's 1st, 2nd, 3rd transits in the chart. Each cycle of Saturn then through Bhavas with low or high benefical dots under the Ashtakavarga system may then have different interpretations.

Warmest Regards
Hock Leong

[Khoo Hock Leong]

Hi

Next principle ....

This principle combines the phenomenon of exaltation of planets, natural and malefic planets and the rulership of good or Dusthana (bad) houses. This is from Phaladeepika.

Exaltation of natural malefics if they happen to rule good houses, the Bhava which they are posited in, they would give GOOD effects.

Exaltation of natural benefics if they happen to rule Dusthanas, the Bhava which they are posited in, they would give BAD effects.

Warmest Regards
Hock Leong

[Khoo Hock Leong]

Hi

The above sloaka is from Chapter 23 Verse 24 of Philadeepika.

Warmest Regards
Hock Leong

[Dev]

Thanks Khoo.
1. What happens in the case if sthana bala is less than the required value but total shadbala is more?
2. What happens when sthana bala value is more than the required value and total shadbala is less?
What would u say about the shadbala taking into account combustion, debilitation, retrograde, etc into account, I think retro shows up in chesta bala.
3. Also in my case, chandra has highest sthana bala of 240 and then saturn 170 and then come mars and venus with 129 and others still lower, jupiter being the lowest.
In terms of shadbala, again, moon has 8.66 rupas, saturn 5.81, mercury 6.85. In terms of percentage, moon, saturn, sun, venus, mercury, mars jupiter is the order. What does it signify?

Dev

[chavitarun]

Hi

Next principle ....

This principle combines the phenomenon of exaltation of planets, natural and malefic planets and the rulership of good or Dusthana (bad) houses. This is from Phaladeepika.

Exaltation of natural malefics if they happen to rule good houses, the Bhava which they are posited in, they would give GOOD effects.

Exaltation of natural benefics if they happen to rule Dusthanas, the Bhava which they are posited in, they would give BAD effects.

Warmest Regards
Hock Leong

respected sir

pl. let us know about following :

1.if a natural malefic planet or bhava owning dusthan & palced in good house & having 31 points in Ashtakvarga or more than 120 points in shadabala will be strong & will give good result or bad

2.if a natural benefic planet or a bhava owning dusthan & palced in good house & having 31 points in Ashtakvarga or more than 120 points in shadabala will be strong & will give good result or bad

2a. A planet debilited in chart but good in shadbala -will give good or bad result

3. what about mercury Debiliated in Birth chart & exalted in Navamsha cancels the maleficiecy.

4. a good bhava getting good points in ashtakvarga will be treated as good or bad

5. a dusthana bhava getting good points in ashtakvarga will be treated as good or bad

Regards

[Khoo Hock Leong]

Hi

Next principle .....

Aspects by debilitated planets or planets placed in inimical signs give bad results.

Aspects by combusted planets or planets defeated in planetary wars are powerless and has no effect. Mercury and Jupiter are the exceptions for the combustion phenomenon ie. when they are close to the Sun, their aspects still work. In the case of Jupiter, it will take time.

Venus and Saturn when combusted, their aspects are powerless. But they still give their longevity effect to the Bhavas in which they are placed provided the Bhavas are friendly to them like the 8th for Saturn and the 4th for Venus.

Warmest Regards
Hock Leong

[astro123]

Hi KHl

What abt aspects of planets placed in dusthanas ? Will they be considered weak/malefic/benefic etc