Live-ins considered as marriage ??

[sinecurve]

No, Sinecurve. The fear of losing something is in all facets of life - job, money, security .... It's not the same as the duty/responsibility that marriage gives. To me what marriage does to your psyche and mind is totally different to what a live-in relationship with no commitment does. A break of a marriage is far worse a calamity than a break of a live-in arrangement both personally and socially.

As explained by Swamykool in his first reply itself, its your personality which also defines how will you react to a relationship. Marriage might feel like a bondage for few whereas Liv-in might work perfectly for them.

I agree with you but I wouldnt categorize realtionships as dharmic / adharmic just by signing some papers or swearing in front of some deity.

[Basab]

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[swamykool]

There might be another pointer, the malefic connections. There should be connections that show posession, jealousey, anger and fighting in a proper marriage. Like someone grabs firmly what he/she thinks that rightfully belongs to him or her. Live-in relations these connections would be weak or absent. Both know that they are on shaky ground - without the backing of society or king. That something is lacking. And their emotional makeup reflect that instability. This is however entirely my experiment, which I have used with favourable results on 4-5 charts till date. They need to be practiced on hundreds of charts to be confirmed. For all its worth, I can be wrong.

Sinecurve ji,

Also consider the point given above.

[Basab]

Sinecurve,

You can do one thing: check out the planetary period X was running when he got into his relationships and also when he got married. See if there is a 7th house/lord connection to it in all the cases. Check in the navamsha also for a 7th house/lord connection or a lagna/lagna lord connection there.

A person may have 5 children, but for predicting the birth of child in all the 5 cases the period of 5th house/lord is seen. The same way, a person may have 3 brothers younger to him, but then, for predicting the brith of all 3 of them, the period of 3rd house/lord is seen. Don't you think the same logic should apply in case of marriage, too: that is the period of 7 house/lord should always be seen for predicting it, even if it is the 5th or 6th time it is happening?

I tell you where this concept gets confusing....

Real life example...X was in relationship for 5 years before marriage but married someone else coz of family pressure. Weak Mars or SU or whatever.....his wife finds him lame and leaves him. Year after divorce he met another girl and was in long distance relatonship for 4 years....they hardly met few times but were mentally involved. They split up last month and now he wants to know about his future relationship. He has all the intention to get married but just that things are not working for him.

Obviously his marriage related houses are pretty screwed up...but taking the 8th to UL for subsequent marriages...may be his 4th marriage will work for him....if we count those affairs as marriages.

[Zara]

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[swamykool]

Dear Zara,

Have you ever met in real life even once? Or is this totally online? A lot will depend on this factor.

[psha85]

Just my two cents on this topic: I have had 2 serious relationships and both have shown up in my chart. The first relationship lasted 3 years and it was not consummated.. though it did show up as UL. The second relation I am in now.. same thing, not consummated, though it is expected to culminate in marriage.

I have also seen the same principle work in others' charts, whether the relationship had been consummated or not. I don't think it matters whether there is a physical element to it or not. The real thing that matters is if marriage was seriously considered between the two and if it was serious (whether it lasted more than a year or less than).

[Zara]

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[psha85]

Hi Zara-

If marriage was seriously considered with this person and it was a relation of significant length of time then it should show up as a UL. But the only way to really see if this relation would show up in UL is to compare the two charts (if you have them). For example, is the UL rashi (or its lord) the same as or in trines to the partner's lagna? If you do not have the partner's horoscope, then you have to see the practical significations of it. See the 2nd and 8th from UL to see the break of the relation and if the significations of those planets or the sign lords make sense to what actually happened. For example, in my chart, the first relation broke due to caste/religion issues and Ketu was 2nd to UL. In my friend's chart, his partner cheated on him and Rahu was in 2nd to UL.

Other than UL I am not sure of any reliable method to see specific marriages in the chart. I have read that you can take navamsa 7th house as first, then 2nd house, and so on. However, this has not added up in my own chart so I am not very sure about that. I think to predict specific relations, UL is the most reliable method.

As for divorce being shown in your chart, I am not sure if this can be applied to this specific UL or not. That's a very good question. If possible, see the next UL and if it does not have any indication of divorce then maybe you can assume that divorce was being applied to the first UL, even though it was not divorce per se, just break up. Though I am not sure if that is a correct method to use, it could be one way to narrow it down.

Hope this helps.


*Pooja*

[swamykool]

Dear Zara,

If you have met once, you may consider this as a 7th H matter.

Here is a rough checklist.
See during this time if you were running the dasha-antardasha of the 7th L or LL or 4th L both from Lg and Moon, and Nav 7th L or any planets in these Hs. Also consider MD/AD of Venus and Rahu.

Then check if Rahu was transiting the Lg or 7th H, or their Lords both from both Lg and Moon, or the Navamsha Moon, during this time.

If the paramaters apply, treat this as a marriage yoga and the break-up as divorce. Henceforth use the 9th H as the Lg and calculate for 2nd Marriage.

If there is no physical meeting at least once or the length of the relationship is less than one year, it is better to treat this matter from 5th or 11th H. 7th H is a very serious H and there is an element of destiny attached to it.

I don't use Jaimini, you have to ask the Jaimini experts like Sonu or Dinesh for the UL. However use Jaimini and Parashari seperately and don't mix 'n' match.

swamykool

[psha85]

Swamykool, you mention using the 9th house for 2nd marriage.. I would like to clarify that you mean the 9th from the 7th house and not the actual 9th house itself. If 7th is treated as lagna then 8th from it would be 2nd house and that shows end of the marriage.. that house is then taken as lagna for the second marriage and so on and so forth. Please confirm if this is what you meant. Thanks!

[R V RAMANAN]

Dear Swamykool,
In generic terms the purpose of marriage is to unite two independent people and make them understand interdependence, which should slowly cruise to the realm of inseperableness. Hardly very few in the history of marriage have been able to attain this state of literally Shiva-Sakthi union.

Marriage was supposed to be a super natural institution. But, now the very idea has become an illusion which is slowly taking human kind to abyssmal depths.

Regards,
Ramanan

[swamykool]

Ramanan ji,

What you say is exactly what is written in the holy books. But reality was always a bit different. As you know even in the times of Raja Raja Chola or earlier. Sanskrit literature provides ample proof. See how Parashar and other authors give a copious list of 'breach of conduct'. They wouldn't mention it if such things weren't there even in their times. Would they?

swamykool

swamykool

[R V RAMANAN]

Dear Swamykool,
So all along we had been bad. In every good yuga there was also a kali yuga, in some corner.

Regards,
Ramanan

[swamykool]

psha85,

K N Rao and BVB has more or less settled on 9th H for 2nd Marriage after research on hundreds of charts. It is 9th fr Lg and not 7th H. Reason is 9th is 3rd from 7th - new efforts and new endeavours along conjugal lines. For 3rd M take 3rd from 9th and so on.

regards
swamykool

[swamykool]

Ramanan ji,

Even in Satya yuga many a rishi ran after many an apsara and many a rishi-patni was seduced by many a god. The Rishis were always busy devising new shaaps/curses for such conjugal aggravations. What can I say, 'muninancha matibhramah' -all through the ages.

swamykool

[ChandraLagna]

Dear Swamykool,
In generic terms the purpose of marriage is to unite two independent people and make them understand interdependence, which should slowly cruise to the realm of inseperableness. Hardly very few in the history of marriage have been able to attain this state of literally Shiva-Sakthi union.

Marriage was supposed to be a super natural institution. But, now the very idea has become an illusion which is slowly taking human kind to abyssmal depths.

Regards,
Ramanan

Sirji - It was Mae West in her in-imitable style who said:

Marriage is a great institution. But who in his right mind wants to live in an instution!

But sir, your words also leave us with a food for thought.....the whole concept of UL / Arudha is that of maya or the delusion as perceived by the world....is this what we have come to? thought-provoking.

[R V RAMANAN]

Dear Swamykool,

Very very true!One of the greatest of Sakthi devotee Shri Abirama Bhattar once remarked,
"Manidharum, Devarum, Maayaa Munivarum" meaning that The Gods are better than Sages, but it is the human being who is blessed with the potential to transcend all these and reach the Supreme.

Regards,
RAMANAN

[psha85]

Swamykool-

Okay, I had not heard of this method till now. Thanks for the explanation. And is this applied to rashi chart or navamsa chart (or both)?

[swamykool]

Arun,

There are bad marriages and transgressions in every age, there are also good marriages and loyalty. One must take a balanced view, and shouldn't swing to either pole. Regarding the comment of Mae West, most of these avant garde people end up in drug rehabs or psychological rehabs, or thats what the media reports. Civilised man has to be in an institution, marital or mental the choice belongs to the native.

swamykool

[swamykool]

psha85,

Rashi and nav both.

swamykool

[ChandraLagna]

In a lighter vein, Swamiji, lighter vein!

On a more serious note, I got a a bit mixed up b/w your comments and those of Zara, whether to take 7th or 9th for II marriage. On similar note, what would you recommend for someone who undergoes a career change? It could either be a complete change [ one person I know went from a MNC culture to a NGO in one month flat!] or say from the Defence forces to a private sector, but still doing the same kind of job like electronics? Would that also be 3rd from 10th?

Mucho thanks!

[swamykool]

Ramanan ji,

Getting your tail caught in a cleft stick is the fastest catalyst for transcendence and yearning for the supreme. Now I understand the full spiritual import of the institution of marriage. It is indeed enlightening.

swamykool

[swamykool]

Arun,

Your first q has been clarified in previous response to Psha85.

I am not very accurate with career astrology. Still building my skills. But for a complete job change the connection of 8th L (ending/ breakage) and the 12th L (transition/passing from one phase to another) has to be there. Regarding Corporate to NGO I think one must see whether the connection of charity (or cheating is there. Not very sure.

swamykool

[Dev]

Hi all:

Marriage has happened when the two had
1. were in Live in relationship(who decided that they live that way and did not believe in the institution of marriage but are married according to them)
2. marriage but was unconsummated either due to physical reasons or due to verbal fights
3. married as per shastra but had no compatibility of any sort but lived whole life just to avoid divorce as in olden days
4. Married but the husband or wife dies and then the person gets remarried. In fact especially for a lady who is a widow or divorcee, remarriage is not allowed. Is it also not adharmic in a way? Can she ever forget the good life she had with her first husband? Ladies are emotional and so the binding would be stronger. It is only said wrt women that if she loves one, he is the only one in her life.

Of late u can see that ladies even if divorcee or widow and with children, want to have a husband who is either younger or just one or two years elder to them. They are particular. This trend shows they dont want to become spiritual and do want to lead a materialistic life forgetting the past life of theirs. It is surprising when we talk of chastity for a woman. I dont know if it is bad but then it cannot be ideal.

5. Marriage happens and they live happily.

There must be some way of differentiating these cases astrologically.
In the west people are in live in relationships and have kids, it is to avoid heavy money spent on divorce. I knew of a German professor, he is still in the relationship and they have not married but his grand children are married. He was a talented chemistry professor.


Dev