Why did Ravana Ignore Kendras & Trikonas ?

[arjunprabhu84]

Dear Friends,

I Recently Read a Story about Ravana wanting all The Planets to be in the 11th house of His Son's Inderjit's Horoscope

I am sure most of you know about the story but for those who dont, here it is :

" Ravana was a Great Astrologer & when his Son Inderjit was to be born, He commanded all the Planets to reside in inderjit's 11th house of his Horoscope. Acc to Ravana this wld make Inderjit Invincible !, The God's were highly distressed at this because saturn in the 11th house of Inderjit's Chart wld give him great strenghth, The Gods requested Saturn to Move into the 12th house, Saturn agreed & attempted to move into the 12th house, however Ravana saw this & chopped oof Saturn's Leg..which den fell into the 12th house, this was known as Mandi & thus Inderjit's chart got spoilt, however some also feel that saturn moved into the 12th in chalit chart, "


reading this story gave rise to certain questions in my mind which I am placing below :

Q1) Why was Ravana so Obssessed with the 11th house ? is the 11th house so powerful ?

Q2) Astrologers generally say that kendras are very powerful & a chart without planets in kendras is devoid of action& the person may become without external force in the material world, however then why did ravana ignore all kendras ?

Q3) Ravana placed all Planets in the 11th, however why were the God's specifically afraid of saturn being in the 11th house ?

Q4) for which lagna, would saturn be most powerful & Advantage in the 11th & why ?

Q5) Which is the best house for saturn ?

[astroboy]

Good day to you,

The 11th house is a Panapara house, relating to income. the 11th is also A upachaya house. planets placed in the 11th increase in strength through time and give progressively good results as one gets older. Natural Malefics do well in this house and give the native the power to over come any difficulty. The benefics placed here dont do badly either.

The 11th house is the house of gain. this house shows income or that which brings the native increase in all Spheres of life. It relates to goals ,aspirations, will and ambition. It measures the natives goals and one's motivation. The planets in the 11th give not only material gain but excessive material gains. It is the house of abundance, planets are strong and favourable, both malefic and non malefic. the 11th contributes to spiritual gains, intelligence, and expansive development. the 11th house in the natural zodiac is a Kama house indicating the acquisition in plenty of one's desires, and luxuries.It represents the end of expense and when expense ends only gains remain.


Note that the 11th is the 2nd from the 10th.

For Ravana the 11th house was specially important because a strong 11th house represented the natives enemy's enemy. Now a enemy's enemy is our friend. A strong 11th house would automatically make his enemy's enemy Indrajit's friend.

Another factor which the 11th house signifies is "Regaining things lost". A strong 11th house would naturally allow the native to reconquer anything he lost.


The main factor is that the 11th is the 6th from the 6th.Debts (6th house ) of one's enemies (6th house) reside in the 11th house of profits - naturally! What is bad for one's enemies is always good for the native..

Similarly illness (6th) and animosity (6th) which befall one's enemies and are naturally gainful for oneself, are reckoned from house-11.

To determine the outcome of warfare against one's enemies, consult house-11.

A strong labha bhava nearly always provides win over enemies. Although enemies may prevail during periods of L-6, they will be defeated by enemies of the enemies during the period of L-11, if L-11 is stronger than L-6.

For all this greed you must first understand the thought Process of Ravana. Ravana was a Akanda Brahmin yes, but he was Tamasic, in nature and this eventually destroyed him. Lastly let us not forget who he was ruling, he was the king of the Demon's and Asura's, and like the old saying goes, if you live with the pig's you will learn to grunt in time.

Let us see what the Aghora guru the late Aghori Vimalananda has to say about Asuras.


I quote

“the Asuras are highly evolved spiritual beings but they are jealous and selfish. They are creatures of tamas; they are eternally plotting wars against the Devas and manushyas to challenge them for dominion of their universe. All their Shakti is misused to delude the minds of others, if they were to use this power for good they could be very beneficial to the universe but they use it to delude other people’s minds. An asura has a tamasic intellect compared to the deva who has a sattvic intellect. A sattvic being who sees an animal (or human) looks on it like a living toy and watches it enjoy its life. An asura, who has a tamasic intellect, looks at such a toy and wants to crush it, kill it, and eat it. Asura have no use for that type of love. Asuras can achieve great things but they also make great mistakes and cannot be trusted with authority.”

Trust this helps,

[astroboy]

If I had 1 choice to give Indrajit a lagna then it would be Dhanu. The reasons are as follow's

Dhanu is a warrior sign,
It's a fiery sign
Lord of the 2nd house of wealth Is Lord Shani
Lord of the 3rd house of Courage and physical strength is Lord Shani
Lord Shani becomes exalted in the 11th house and aspects the 5th house of Intelligence and Intution, the 1st house (Victory over enemies) from the 11th and the 8th house of Annihilation

There are 3 Nakshatra's in Dhanu, Moola, Purva ashadha and Uttara Ashadha, note that moola is a Tamasic Nakshatra while the other two are Rajasic Nakshatra's

Moola is a Thikshana in Nature (Dreadful )
Poorva Ashadha is Ugra in nature (Fierce)
the Qualities of Poorva Ashadha also apply to Uttara Ashadha because they are 2 parts of the same Nakshatra. just that uttara is more introspective in nature.

Poorva ashadha is owned by Shukra who owns the 6th and the 11th house, while Uttara Ashadha is owned by the 9th Lord Ravi who is a friend of the lagna lord.
Moola is owned by the Fiery Ketu.

for a king, Dhanu is the best lagna available. the symbol of Dhanu is a bow and arrow which suggests a ability to prevail over enemies. Dhanu natives always have high aims indicating a cutting edge competitiveness. Guru is not a enemy of any Graha suggesting that they can win over their enemies. This is a fierce action oriented masculine sign.

to answer your other question,The best House for Saturn would be undoubtedly Tula with the lagna being Tula. Now Lord Shani becomes a pure yogakaraka owning the 4th and 5th house. However when he aspects the 7th he will still create some trouble to the 7th house, the 10th house and the 3rd house. Because Lord Shani is lord Shani, He will create some problem or the other to the houses he aspects no matter what.

[arjunprabhu84]

Greetings Astroboy, !!!

Excellent post !!

However some doubts still linger :

1) You wrote if Inderjit was dhanu lagna, den exalted saturn from 11th wld aspect houses 2, 5 & 8th , If I am not mistaken shd saturn not be aspecting lagna , 5th & 8th ?. how will it aspect 2nd house of wealth ?

2) wld saturn's drishti on lagna from 11th not reduce physical strenght & stamina of Inderjit ?

3) why were the devas only scared about saturn in 11th ?, y not about other planets

4) would the absence of planets in kendras for Inderjit not create problems in action oriented efforts in material world ?

[astroboy]

Good day to you,


you wrote,

However some doubts still linger :

1) You wrote if Inderjit was dhanu lagna, den exalted saturn from 11th wld aspect houses 2, 5 & 8th , If I am not mistaken shd saturn not be aspecting lagna , 5th & 8th ?. how will it aspect 2nd house of wealth ?

You are correct, that was a typo. I have corrected it accordingly. I have to make it very clear that this is my take on a hypothetical placement of the Lagna. I make it very clear that I do not know what Indrajit's actual lagna was.



2) wld saturn's drishti on lagna from 11th not reduce physical strenght & stamina of Inderjit ?

You must remember that Lord Shani is the 3rd lord and is in the 11th house of Gains. The 3rd house is the house of great physical, and mental Prowess and the 11th is the "gain of any sort". Lord Shani is in a exalted state, and thus will be in a better position to deliver the 3rd and the 11th house results to the lagna via his aspect. However io must remind you that there will be some trouble induced by lord Shani, because he is a natural enemy. This is the point of Joytish. the fact that you are born goes to show that you have to encounter some bad in life. Being born in this world is a Dosha in itself and we have to encounter some pain or the other. Shani might deliver a lot of good, but he will screw you somewhere or the other. Point is that we cant have everything in this world. Simple.


3) why were the devas only scared about saturn in 11th ?, y not about other planets

I use Lord as the suffix before Shani simply because he deserves to be called the Lord. No other planet can inflict the kind of pain or pleasure on a being like Lord Shani can. Remember Lord Shiva is the first person in the world to Outsource the duty of delivering a human's karmic fruits to the 9 planets, but he gave the best job to Lord Shani. Saturn was choosen to carry out the duty of Lord Shiva Himself, that is the job of "Rudra", when Shani laid his icy cold hand's on you, take it for granted that you are dead. Shani is the significator for air, he breath's life into you and starts your karmic debit and credit account, when he is done, he leaves you, taking your breath away, and that's the end of your story. you fall dead. Look at the significations of Lord Shani. He is the significator for the 6th, the 8th and the 12th, the most dangerous house's in the horoscope, he better be placed well. Now we all know Lord Shani does well in the 3rd the 6th and the 11th house. Now imagine what a powerful planet like this would do if he was placed in the 11th house of "gain". He would deliver maximum benefic results to indrajit. This is the reason why Ravana was keen to have Shani in the 11th and this is why the Deva's wanted the man in the 12th.


4) would the absence of planets in kendras for Inderjit not create problems in action oriented efforts in material world ?

You cant have every thing in life my dear friend. No matter what you do, there is nothing called the "best placement" Ravana one of the best Joytish around in his time thought that the 11th house of "Wealth and Gains of all kind's" was the best place for the planets to be in. That was the best he could do. This is a lesson for every one on this earth. I repeat this line once again for maximum effect. " you cant have everything in life"


regards,

[lovacrs]

My understanding of the question fundamentally differs from others.

Based on the story, I would say that Ravana's commnad would have affected only the transit positions and not natal positions.
It could be to impact the transit impact on Indrajeet's chart or to impact the results through the rules governing electional
astrology for the battle as the event.

If this understanding is correct, Ravana's immediate preoccupation was the battle. Once that is won he could perhaps command the planets to be all in Sukh Bhava, a quadrant . And why will the powerful be bothered about trines which represent luck? He will rather command the luck to be placed where he wants rather than go where it is!

[arjunprabhu84]

@ lovarcs :

As far as I know the story is very clear that Ravana was concerned with the natal position of planets only,

& this took place at the time of Inderjit's birth & there was no battle on at that time

Ravana wanted all the natal planets in Inderjit's 11th house

[lovacrs]

arjunprabhu84 ji,

Thanks for helping me get the story right. You are right, possibily all in 10th is a better option than all in 11th.
My argument on why the powerful will be scornful of trines will still be valid
Still Ravan was lucky since at the appointed time Devas failed to get an Inderjeet of their own at the appointed time!

[astroboy]

Right now we are back on track. Lovacrs ji, you really got me thinking on that one.

[Nitin21]

Still Ravan was lucky since at the appointed time Devas failed to get an Inderjeet of their own at the appointed time!

This was not possible as Ravana was controlling navgrahas and used them as stepping stones to ascend his throne. At the time of Indrajits birth he asked them to be in 11th house of which only Saturn could move one leg to 12th seeing which his leg was cut and called MANDI. Eventually it was because of this MANDI that Indrajit lost his life.

[astroboy]

Astro sonu ji, I was waiting for you to give the finishing touches. nice seeing you.

[Nitin21]

Dear Astroboy - Good to be again with you too.. Hope to learn horary from you someday.. That's one area I have'nt got a chance to lay my hands on.

[astroboy]

Good day AstroSonu ji,


Horary has fascinated me to no end. My guru is the most Pessimistic astrologer you will ever find, that's when the queriest is not around. we were sitting around in his office round the same time a year back and discussing the future of a friend of his. Since we did not have his horoscope, He decided to put a prashna chart, It was raining heavily and the sky was having a field day throwing lightning bollts all around the place. The window was open and the breeze was heavy, so the prasna was asked " will this man retain his land or will the banks auction it" just as we asked that question, the power tripped, there was a lightning bolt so bright, I was blinded for a second, the computer screen went into power save mode, and the door slammed shut.

The moron that I am, I rushed to the door, opened it, opened the window, grabbed a candle, picked up his lighter and quickly lit a candle and stuck it to the table, then I quickly moved the mouse to see where the Arudha lagna was, all this time my Guru was looking at me with a smile, I went on trying to analyse the chart, I mean he did not even take a peek at the screen, I said wow look at that, the Arudha lagna has Shani In leo, and all that jazz........... he said " fool your question was just answered" did you not catch the sign's , it's all in the air you moron. thats when I knew, I had a long way to go with Prashna.


more later,

[Nitin21]

Astroboy,

More than the Prashna chart, one must always observe the nimitas around him while putting the prediction to the querist. Even a cuckoo singing or a dog barking at that time, means something. The incident you narrated, I must pay my highest regards to your Guru for getting this right. Indeed there was no need to see the Prashna chart. .. But I guess we all are learning still and your Guru is at a stage one above us. So, hats off to him.

Regards
sonu

[chaks]

I am relieved that Ravana with all the powers he had, did not create a few planets on his own. We are having enough troubles with the existing Nine

[astroboy]

That's A very very good one Chaks, Ravana probably realised that the 9 were a handful and getting them to fall in line was a tough task, thank god he did not divorce them and create a new set.

[Basab]

" fool your question was just answered" did you not catch the sign's , it's all in the air you moron. thats when I knew, I had a long way to go with Prashna

Astroboy,

So what happened after that? Did the person lose the land? Was your guruji correct?

[lovacrs]

Astrosonu ji,

I did not understand your response:

This was not possible as Ravana was controlling navgrahas and used them as stepping stones to ascend his throne. At the time of Indrajits birth he asked them to be in 11th house of which only Saturn could move one leg to 12th seeing which his leg was cut and called MANDI. Eventually it was because of this MANDI that Indrajit lost his life.

What I meant when I wrote

Still Ravan was lucky since at the appointed time Devas failed to get an Inderjeet of their own at the appointed time!

was that just when Ravan had commandeered all the planets into 11th, the Devas could have pushed in a dozen lives on to Earth through the wombs of many women who also may have been pregnant at that time. Ravana was after all not Lord Brahma to stop such births.

[Nitin21]

CRSji,

The hierarchy of devatas is understood by a concept called taratamya. In this Shri Vishnu and MaataLaxmi are the topmost and do not have a linga deha. Next is Vayu and Brahmaji. After that Lord Shiva and other devatas. Navgrahas are in complete control and command of Lord Shiva. And Ravana was bhakta of Mahadev Shiv Shankar. So, his powers were uptil this hierarchy and not above that. This is the reason he could control Navgrahas through boons as destiny would not affect him anyway anyhow. Now when he was commanding the Navgrahas, it was upto him to decide when he wanted to die. None in the three lokas was compared to him till that hierarchy. In that context I put that the devatas could not have created another indrajeet who could defeat Ravana. Ravana lived for 36000 years. His tapasya grew with every growing day and so did the powers. How would a person born new grow multifold in short time to defeat an adhyatmic person like Ravana who had gained so much powers by then. So, it was not possible for a human birth to kill Ravana no matter what planets suggested.

Ravana scripted his death himself knowingly. He knew all vedas, shastras and was a complete brahmin. His objective was to die at the hands of Shri Vishnu Avataara since it is only Shri Vishnu who can grant Moksha. Lest he could have asked one more boon of Moksha from Lord Shiva who granted him several boons. Ravana used to pray Lord Rama everyday and request to slay him to end his journey on earth and reach Vaikuntha. With so much powers of Ravana who can kill him? None. This is the state he reached so that no one could kill him. But who is beyond death. It is Shri Vishnu only. So, Sri Rama had to take avatara and achieve multiple objectives of relieving earth from the sinful people as well as establish peace which he did for 13000 years along with Sitadevi. In these objectives, he killed Ravana too.

You may have a question, when Ravana kidnapped Sitadevi how could Sri Rama grant him Moksha ? .. Ok the answer is, Ravana had a curse that if he even touched any woman against the wishes of her, his head would be blown into 1000 pieces. So, he never touched Sitadevi. He merely cut the piece of earth where she resided and took her away into Lanka. .

The point is humans or other devatas would not have been able to kill Ravana. It was only Shri Vishnu who could do that and Ravana scripted his death this way.

Regards
Sonu

[lovacrs]

Thanks Sonu ji.

[astroboy]

Very good day to you Basab Ji,


you wrote,


Astroboy,

So what happened after that? Did the person lose the land? Was your guruji correct?

Basab ji, this story came back to haunt me because my Guru called me up on a sunday the 13th june 2010, in the morning at 7 to ask me if I had read the paper's. Though I rise early normally, This Sunday was a late one because I am in Bangalore as we speak and the week end in Bangalore is some thing


The local paper's had just advertised that the property is for auction by the bank's, and that the auction was to be held within the next one month. My guru just callled me to say that he was correct.


I feel sorry for the man who has to face the future process though.

will tel you when this auction is to be held, will also try and get the birth data too.

till then,

Best regards,

[Basab]

Wow!! Brilliant prediction by your Guruji!

[Nitin21]

CRSji,



Ravana scripted his death himself knowingly. He knew all vedas, shastras and was a complete brahmin. His objective was to die at the hands of Shri Vishnu Avataara since it is only Shri Vishnu who can grant Moksha. Lest he could have asked one more boon of Moksha from Lord Shiva who granted him several boons. Ravana used to pray Lord Rama everyday and request to slay him to end his journey on earth and reach Vaikuntha.

1: Why did Ravana not ask for Moksha from lord Shiva and waited for Vishnu Avtaara?

2: Ravana was a great scholar and its beyond any doubts but he still had a desire to attain salvation? I mean even if it is to merge with the highest soul of the universe, a desire is still a desire.

I have never been able to fully understand how even devtas continue to have desires of thrones and kingdom. (like Indra eg).

Budha says that when the last stream of desire also melts in the river, the union is complete and paramount.

Some kind thoughts would be helpful.

Dear kabiraji,

Lord shiva grants vairagya. Shri Vishnu is giver of moksha. All ashtakshar mantras of ishta devtas are vishnu avataras only. Lord shiva and brahmaji have different roles.

Merging with universal soul is not moksha. This process happens only at the time of mahapralaya not any time else. Moksha is permit to reach highest and sanctiest of lokas that is Vaikuntha dhaam from where there is no return to prithvi thus ending cycle of life and deaths. A soul there serves Mahavishnu and laxmimata endlessly and thus gets complete bliss.

hope this answers your query.

Regards
Sonu

[Satya]

Sonu,

How do you know for sure this concept about Moksha is right and any other belief by some other person is wrong?? I am sorry, it is not to offend you but I find it hard to hold faith in such things - none of us know what happens after death - is this not all speculation and of course faith in who ever is teaching you?? And the teacher is also still alive and cannot glimpse at what lies ahead.

I have attended few sessions at BK's last month and I found it really disturbing - here I am, a Vishnu devotee chanting Vishnu Sahasram daily and sitting in a session listening to someone supposedly divine saying Vishu is not THE God. How am I to know what is right, I always thought name does n't matter - Vishnu, Shiva or Brahma all are different aspects of one divine energy.

And as for all these short stories in epics, don't you think they are allegory to teach us about life, not to be taken literal??

But anyway, coming back to this topic, what should have happened if all other planets remained in 11th but Saturn slipped to the 12th? As far as we know, the gains or wealth of 11th house are not lasting - just momentary, there should be some other reason behind the story.

- Satya

[Nitin21]

Sonu,

How do you know for sure this concept about Moksha is right and any other belief by some other person is wrong?? I am sorry, it is not to offend you but I find it hard to hold faith in such things - none of us know what happens after death - is this not all speculation and of course faith in who ever is teaching you?? And the teacher is also still alive and cannot glimpse at what lies ahead.

I have attended few sessions at BK's last month and I found it really disturbing - here I am, a Vishnu devotee chanting Vishnu Sahasram daily and sitting in a session listening to someone supposedly divine saying Vishu is not THE God. How am I to know what is right, I always thought name does n't matter - Vishnu, Shiva or Brahma all are different aspects of one divine energy.

And as for all these short stories in epics, don't you think they are allegory to teach us about life, not to be taken literal??

But anyway, coming back to this topic, what should have happened if all other planets remained in 11th but Saturn slipped to the 12th? As far as we know, the gains or wealth of 11th house are not lasting - just momentary, there should be some other reason behind the story.

- Satya

To believe in what happens after death do u expect the person to die, travel across universe, talk to brahmaji and come alive again to narrate the experiences so that humans can believe ?

Regarding talking about Shri Vishnu not being God , i can only say you just defied all vedas, upanishads and puranas which hold nothing but Shri Vishnu as supreme. My Guruji does not teach things which he gets in dreams and hallucinations. All these are part of holy vedas.

The onus of believing is on you. If you do not have faith in Shri Vishnu you are defying your own existence which is one of his many virupas.

I think you need to stable your beliefs. You cannot chant Shri Vishnu stutis one day and disbelieve his existence the other day. From what I can see this was a test of your faith by almighty and you failed.