Ayanamsa idea

[abruslep]

After reading the logic of Pushya Paksha and Rohini Paksha ayanamsas, I came up with another idea revolving around the Aries star Hamal( Alpha Arietis). Now I'm not sure that this is correct... anyone that says that they are 100% sure that they have the right ayanamsa is probably full of crap, but I offer this up to be tested.

I view lagna/ascendant in the following manner. Ashwini is the child... uncontrolled creativity that doesn't quite know how to harness itself. Krittika is the old man... with very precise values. The center of Aries is the ascendant.... the lagna... the point where old meets new(the present). Navamsa has been referred to as the souls division, which is why at 15 degrees Aries, the Navamsa is at 15 degrees Leo. If Aries is the self, Leo is the idealism of the self...the greater... higher self. You can actually make some interesting connections with other Vargas as well(which I believe unlocks the true purpose of the varga). By placing the star Hamal(the brightest... strongest star of aries) at the 15 degree point, you end up with the ayanamsa I propose. Oddly this ayanamsa is very similar to the Pushya Paksha ayanamsa proposed by PVR Rao.

[rathore]

From my testing of uncommon yogas on many a charts where planets are about to change signs and/or navamsa (and one of these factors is required to form the yoga tested) I can say for sure any Ayanamsa near Raman is wrong. Real Ayanamsa is close to Lahiri and at most it may be towards the end of Fagan / Chandra Hari.

[abruslep]

One of the problems I've always had with most ayanamsa discussions is due to the fact that most use Geocentric planetary positions and I can't reason in any way as to why this would be correct. Topocentric is the only conclusion to be formulated. If two people are born at the same time but 30 miles apart, the two exist in a different spatial location, therefore differences occur. There was a famous mathematician that argued that within a system, all positional coordinates are mathematical reflections of the culmination of all the other points combined.... and I believe that the universe works much in the same way. If you take one point in the universe at a particular time, that point is linked through relativity to all the other points in a specialized manner. That's why we are different, individualized, unique... because we exist in our own frame of reference.. and that frame of reference is synchronized to all the bodies within the universe at varying levels. The planets are synchronized with certain aspects of the human psyche or material phenomenon. I think most astrologers fall into the pattern of thinking that there is a cause ... meaning the planets cause the phenomenon to occur... when in actuality a synchronicity exists between all bodies within the cosmos.

[elipsis]

Fagan Bradley is the one which close to what vedic sages used because it takes into account the altitude - the rig vedic tribe lived in the region which was well over 5000ft above sea level then they added corrections from the observational data that they got from Greeks and Babylonians...knowledge exchange was a common practice in those days, in fact the Greeks used to send people to fetch manuscripts in exchange for theirs. But if you want an ayanamas to arrive at correct vimshottari dasa results or correct vargas then none of them will give you correct predictions because the vedic astrology literature doesn't explain the rationale behind vimshottari or the vargas, only satyacharya who lived before varahamihira explained how to use dasas and vargas in conjunction with the rasi chart, however for dasa results you won't really need vargas to justify your conclusions...that's the kicker.

btw, you are right about synchronicity. But when you get into the minds of these ancient writers they always replaced planets with people and circumstances, at any given time the people you live with and circumstances around you represent the active planets in your chart. So planets don't directly influence you but because of their influence everything else is cause. So the question as to why something doesn't work in a chart or a dasa refers to the absence of the primary karaka.

Regards

[Snr]

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[elipsis]

None of them are wrong. Yukteshwar ayanamsa is still widely used in India especially in match making. Astrologers in Orissa doesn't endorse marriage during Rahu periods including sub-periods, they are really afraid of Rahu and stand by Yukteshwar ayanamsa. And Raman ayanamsa is actually the nadi/vakya ayanamsa used in nadi leaf reading..D108 chart etc, ...for this dasa or lagna isn't important.

Regards

[rathore]

SNR ji,

I know a person whenever he has gone to Nadi readers they move his Moon, only 6 minutes in Lahiri, to the previous sign/navamsa. Point being N number of ephemerides exists in India. Lahiri commission was an attempt to straighten this. Some followed, some didn't.

I have tested popular Ayanamsas enough to conclude for myself that Ayanamsas on Raman's end are wrong when it comes to Parashari yogas. Please do your testing too but the testing yardstick is to be defined. Most of us are using too many free variables by using meanings of meanings of meanings of the elements involved (planets, signs etc.) and that is a weak yardstick. I wouldn't worry about enlightened ones. There are sanyansis doing penance in Himalayas who will tell you to stick to Chitra Paksh.

Rathore

[Snr]

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[Crystalpages]

None of them are wrong. Yukteshwar ayanamsa is still widely used in India especially in match making. Astrologers in Orissa doesn't endorse marriage during Rahu periods including sub-periods, they are really afraid of Rahu and stand by Yukteshwar ayanamsa. And Raman ayanamsa is actually the nadi/vakya ayanamsa used in nadi leaf reading..D108 chart etc, ...for this dasa or lagna isn't important.

Regards

Interestingly, if one uses the value of ayanamsha given in yukteshwar-ji's The Holy Science and instead of applying the annual motion of 54", applies 50.33 (closer to modern value) the year of coincidence would nearly match what was utilized by BV Raman.

The source of Raman Ayanamsha is not stated by him and several guesstimates exist.

[elipsis]

You cannot find evidence for many ayanamsas because most of them come from obscure sources and can never be proven. Krishnamurthi got the ayanamsa in his dream...so they labelled him. I personally believe none of them will give you the kind of accuracy you are expecting. I came to know this through an astrologer deep in south india. He drew my chart based on the palm print - and it showed sat-ve-me together in libra where as my merc is in virgo 12 deg as per lahiri - still, I think his skills are commendable...to be able to do something like that just on the basis of palm print is incredible. If he is right it will make everyone rethink on this whole ayanamsa business.

Regards

Edit: btw, I have read your book sometime ago and found it very fascinating. I am also very happy you are taking time out to answer queries.

[satishdesh]

Namaste elipsis

Can you explain how he got mer in libra for you and how much he told, was accurate up to certain extent.
Did you see any indication if he was using tropical zodiac ?

Regards
satish

[elipsis]

He wasn't using any ayanamsa- all he did was take my palm print and draw my chart without lagna or degrees. He was already 96 at that time even then he nearly got my chart right He didn't say much except that I would get good job and own cars...which is what I was concerned back then.

According to nadi literature that deals with thumb and palm prints - if your mercury line bisects lifeline then you are going to have a conjunction of Venus-Mercury in the chart...of course, this is subject to a lot of other factors such as affliction and combustion, if mercury is afflicted by Ketu you'll see breaks in the mercury line so even if there is a conjunction in the chart the palm would show otherwise. Sometimes when mercury and venus are in adjacent houses the lines will join and become one strong line or split into two strong parallel lines. This is a difficult subject and takes a long time study to get it right.

Reference: http://www.yashasweeastro.com/images/Palmistry.gif and http://www.astro-jyotish.com/images/palmistry.gif

Regards

[Snr]

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[GNE]

Interesting regarding the palm astrology.
I once had a brief reading from my neighbors Guru who came from south india, he used only palm/thumb (+face) reading at the time, and told me my mercury and jupiter (and sun..) were strongest in my chart.
Ironic as those are the two debilitated planets. Though on the palm the mercury/jupiter mounts(and fingers) are wonderful and with no negative marking, only positive marks / squares/triangle, etc...
Anyway, to me it's similar to how elipsis said someone changed his mercury's position based on his palm, but yet still have an accurate reading (? I assume they did).
in different ayanamsa's my mercury and jupiter do get much stronger than in Lahiri... but then sometimes I feel lahiri works and the debilitation of both planets aren't as bad as many make it seem, also the low shadbal on Jhora seems incorrect (though to me honestly I have not found shadbal on software to be totally accurate in results...but it if works for you, then great! I am not saying one is wrong if they follow it. )