D10 shows your deeds in society and the skills you acquire that enable you to earn a living (Navamsa too but D10 is bang on). D2 also shows your skills in earning a living too like I mentioned in the D2 post. These two delineations refer to the nitty gritty, so it is unnecessary to refer to the D1 since D1 gives an overall view.
Now career wise is different..........it shows your tangent towards progress in the professional world and that requires strategy, planning, willing to take chances, your overall personality how you fit into the corporate or business world etc.
You see you can always look at a divisional chart without reference to the Rasi Chart......but that only shows potential.......so if you are going all out to prove yourself in that area ruled by that divisional chart, you just take a blind stance of what Rasi Chart can do for that area (whether it impedes or push you towards further progress). But if you are doing delineation for others, you should do it the proper way, you must always read both, in a two-way direction, and I already mentioned in an earlier post what are the links.
D9 and D10 are different. You MUST somehow refer to the D1, contradictory to what people say that D9 is about the only chart you can read independently. I tell you why.
In any House A, the MAIN houses which you also should look at are :
(1) 9th house which supports House A and can make or break House A. It determines the auspiciousness of House A. You would thus like to know what is 9th house auspicious for.....how it would give the direct impact of your life...in this case House A.
(2) 10th house which takes over House A as the be all and end all of everything which House A signifies. In turn House A would be the 4th house to the house just mentioned, ie. the foundation.
(3) The Bhavat Bhavam of House A goes deeper into House A issues but of course you would like to know the condition of House A for such a case. It is just like you can make tons of fortune from the savings you have made but all these years someone has done the savings for you. Obviously before you start making the fortune, you want to know what are the basic resources you have to start with.
Now if House A is the Lagna of D1, that would mean (1) would be the 9th house, (2) would be the 10th house and since it is the Lagna, there is no (3) ie. no further Bhavat Bhavam of Lagna.
Now we know D9 is the expansion of the 9th house in D1, D10 is the expansion of the 10th house in D1......thus you HAVE TO refer to D1 to see :
(1) In what way you can use the Navamsa effectively
(2) What are the foundations for your D10 career success. Do you have a good personality? Do you have an overall all round support of others? (Note skills and deeds no need to refer to D1 as I have already mentioned.....they are the nitty gritty and just looking at D10 would do...........referring to D1 would only make you more confuse).
So yes....you have to tie in the Nakshatras and Padas in D9 and D10, with the Nakshatras and Padas in the Rasi Chart amongst other things like the Atmakaraka in D1, the functional ruler of the said house in D1, the Lagna ruler in the divisional chart etc.
For a start for this thread......just tie in the Nakshatras and Padas of the divisional chart with that in the Rasi Chart first and see whether do they tell a story.
Best Regards
Hock Leong
Yogas in navamsa? Yes/no?
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Khoo Hock Leong
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Yet another way to look at divisional chart is to look at D1 as giving expectation of what you want like the kind of wife or career you would like to have, and then go into D9 to see the wife you actually will have and the D10 for the detailed career environment which you would encounter.
Here you are taking the D1 as the potential ie your wishes rather than the potential of the divisional chart ie given by God (Saptarishis Magazine has called all the divisional charts of a Jataka his Godhead).
You can also take the relevant house in D1 as the Ascendant after
reading the issue from the normal D1 lagna. This is usually done only for matters pertaining to living beings like the wife rather than non-living matters like career. Here the delineation is read from the living being point of view rather than say D9 which is your view of your actual wife.
Note about the only non-living thing which you can use the last technique is 4th house matters like your residence. That is why Vaastu always think of our residence as a living being and there is even a mantra to appease the Vaastu God.
Here you are taking the D1 as the potential ie your wishes rather than the potential of the divisional chart ie given by God (Saptarishis Magazine has called all the divisional charts of a Jataka his Godhead).
You can also take the relevant house in D1 as the Ascendant after
reading the issue from the normal D1 lagna. This is usually done only for matters pertaining to living beings like the wife rather than non-living matters like career. Here the delineation is read from the living being point of view rather than say D9 which is your view of your actual wife.
Note about the only non-living thing which you can use the last technique is 4th house matters like your residence. That is why Vaastu always think of our residence as a living being and there is even a mantra to appease the Vaastu God.
wow thanks for that, I've been looking for info on D10 for a long while and no luck finding anything really great.
Most people seemed to read it like: "so and so has 10th lord in 5th, thus they are an actor" or "this person has sun in leo in 10th, thus they are in politics.." etc. But I found that style hasn't matched with many charts of friends+celebrities I have on file when I check jhora. I've seen actors for example who have no connection with 3/5+1 or 10th lords in dasamsa, or actors/artists with a weak venus in dushanta houses....
anyway,
Is it too much to ask if you can give a short example using your own D10 (easier + less work than reading someone else's for you) like where the d10 asc / 10th lord is placed and what that causes for you. ?
One planet's placement example would be all that's needed really.
This way I'll learn how to apply the same techniques to my own d10. If it's too much to type, then no worries, but I figure for others reading this thread too, it might be helpful.
You don't need to get into every planet, just the most important (which I assume is ascendant + 10th lords. ?)
I do agree with reading the charts ,even navamsa in reference to the Rasi chart to get the fullest/truest picture, and your points as to why we should were clear.
And I assume we take vargottama/bhava vargottama planets in D10 as positive (generally) the same as we do for navamsa.
thank you
edit: just saw your second post,
I like what you said about checking Rasi to see what you'd like, then the varga shows what you actually get.
I sort of said this to my friend a long while ago when we spoke about d10...I said I feel rasi shows what you want to do, but d10 shows what you will end up doing.
Maybe not fully correct, but seems I wasn't so far off the right path of thought there...
But I assume of course, someone wouldn't do something that isn't at least shown to be possible in the rasi, whether they like it or not.
Interesting technique on checking 4th house matters, thank you.
Most people seemed to read it like: "so and so has 10th lord in 5th, thus they are an actor" or "this person has sun in leo in 10th, thus they are in politics.." etc. But I found that style hasn't matched with many charts of friends+celebrities I have on file when I check jhora. I've seen actors for example who have no connection with 3/5+1 or 10th lords in dasamsa, or actors/artists with a weak venus in dushanta houses....
anyway,
Is it too much to ask if you can give a short example using your own D10 (easier + less work than reading someone else's for you) like where the d10 asc / 10th lord is placed and what that causes for you. ?
One planet's placement example would be all that's needed really.
This way I'll learn how to apply the same techniques to my own d10. If it's too much to type, then no worries, but I figure for others reading this thread too, it might be helpful.
You don't need to get into every planet, just the most important (which I assume is ascendant + 10th lords. ?)
I do agree with reading the charts ,even navamsa in reference to the Rasi chart to get the fullest/truest picture, and your points as to why we should were clear.
And I assume we take vargottama/bhava vargottama planets in D10 as positive (generally) the same as we do for navamsa.
thank you
edit: just saw your second post,
I like what you said about checking Rasi to see what you'd like, then the varga shows what you actually get.
I sort of said this to my friend a long while ago when we spoke about d10...I said I feel rasi shows what you want to do, but d10 shows what you will end up doing.
Maybe not fully correct, but seems I wasn't so far off the right path of thought there...
But I assume of course, someone wouldn't do something that isn't at least shown to be possible in the rasi, whether they like it or not.
Interesting technique on checking 4th house matters, thank you.
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Khoo Hock Leong
- Frequent Contributor
- Posts: 7758
- Joined: 03 Jan 2009
The thing is if you wish from the divisional chart side and ignoring the Rasi, you have to appease the specific planet of the karya house in question, your ishtha devata (always necessary when God's grace is required) and also the specific non-planetary lord where that planet is placed in the Rasi Chart (check the article from G K Goel on non-planetary lords).
If you are wishing from the Rasi side, then the Ascendant Lord of Rasi needs to be worshipped, the Moon itself is to be worshipped, the 9th Lord and the Nakshatra Lord of the Moon.
But you can always look at both charts ie. the Rasi Chart and the relevant divisional chart and see where remedies need to be performed on the Rasi Chart end. In this case, even if on the Rasi Chart end the relevant planet is strong but weak in the divisional chart, that planet has to be remedied through astrological remedies.
Vargottama is best used for Navamsa. Even Bhavat Vargottam. It can also be used all divisional charts divisible by 9 and/or 5 like the D45. Or those that are kendras like D4, D16, D45, D7 etc. Vargottam is like a pseudo-lagna, and best combined with a kendra or trine divisional chart. It will be better for a trine chart though ie. slightly stronger, because in Nadi Astrology it is the trines that determine the final outcome of thing. And of the two trines, it is the 9th house that has more say in determining the final outcomes and hence in classics, Vargottam refers to Navamsa only. But yes, we can use for other divisonal charts mentioned just now.
Yes, you can do things that is not shown possible in Rasi. You can go by the route from the divisional chart end (see the 1st paragraph of this reply).
If you are wishing from the Rasi side, then the Ascendant Lord of Rasi needs to be worshipped, the Moon itself is to be worshipped, the 9th Lord and the Nakshatra Lord of the Moon.
But you can always look at both charts ie. the Rasi Chart and the relevant divisional chart and see where remedies need to be performed on the Rasi Chart end. In this case, even if on the Rasi Chart end the relevant planet is strong but weak in the divisional chart, that planet has to be remedied through astrological remedies.
Vargottama is best used for Navamsa. Even Bhavat Vargottam. It can also be used all divisional charts divisible by 9 and/or 5 like the D45. Or those that are kendras like D4, D16, D45, D7 etc. Vargottam is like a pseudo-lagna, and best combined with a kendra or trine divisional chart. It will be better for a trine chart though ie. slightly stronger, because in Nadi Astrology it is the trines that determine the final outcome of thing. And of the two trines, it is the 9th house that has more say in determining the final outcomes and hence in classics, Vargottam refers to Navamsa only. But yes, we can use for other divisonal charts mentioned just now.
Yes, you can do things that is not shown possible in Rasi. You can go by the route from the divisional chart end (see the 1st paragraph of this reply).
makes sense, thank you.
Thing about appeasing or doing remedy's that always confused me is , when I wonder what all the non hindu or jyotish fan's are doing. Like for instance I dont think Bill Gates, or steven speilberg, ...etc.. leonardo dicaprio, and so on are looking into their ishtha devata's or doing planetary remedy's, yet are immensely successful.
Not just celebrities though, but I think of some family members of mine, one uncle in particular seems to have no "issues" in life, and a great steady career/income, yet is basically athiest... (I'm not).
But Anyway,
I remember reading on a site a while ago, that 7th house in dasamsa shows your relation with society, or how the public views you (perhaps through your work). They said if benefic sign it's good, malefic, it's bad... etc. (unless malefic sign with benefic aspect or benefic in it, then good. Or benefic sign with malefic in it/aspect , then bad...)
Whats your opinion on this? Or in general, just looking at houses this way (In d10 I guess...but really, any varga).
I mean where we can draw some conclusions just based on what sign falls where and not even 'reading' the full chart / planet placements / lord placements / yogas,etc.
One astrologer told a friend of mine who has Cancer rising in dasamsa that the opinion of public won't be too positive for him, since he has malefic capricorn on 7th, and aries in 10th can show one who's too harsh / rash ...though brave and enterprising too...
(This was from an online reading he got on journalofastrology's website).
Sorry, one more question came to mind:
I know we give Atmakaraka prime importance in navamsa (and d60/some other varga's too...), and understand why.
But then should we give Amatyakaraka the most importance in Dasamsa then?
Or the PK in d7? etc..
thank you very much
Thing about appeasing or doing remedy's that always confused me is , when I wonder what all the non hindu or jyotish fan's are doing. Like for instance I dont think Bill Gates, or steven speilberg, ...etc.. leonardo dicaprio, and so on are looking into their ishtha devata's or doing planetary remedy's, yet are immensely successful.
Not just celebrities though, but I think of some family members of mine, one uncle in particular seems to have no "issues" in life, and a great steady career/income, yet is basically athiest... (I'm not).
But Anyway,
I remember reading on a site a while ago, that 7th house in dasamsa shows your relation with society, or how the public views you (perhaps through your work). They said if benefic sign it's good, malefic, it's bad... etc. (unless malefic sign with benefic aspect or benefic in it, then good. Or benefic sign with malefic in it/aspect , then bad...)
Whats your opinion on this? Or in general, just looking at houses this way (In d10 I guess...but really, any varga).
I mean where we can draw some conclusions just based on what sign falls where and not even 'reading' the full chart / planet placements / lord placements / yogas,etc.
One astrologer told a friend of mine who has Cancer rising in dasamsa that the opinion of public won't be too positive for him, since he has malefic capricorn on 7th, and aries in 10th can show one who's too harsh / rash ...though brave and enterprising too...
(This was from an online reading he got on journalofastrology's website).
Sorry, one more question came to mind:
I know we give Atmakaraka prime importance in navamsa (and d60/some other varga's too...), and understand why.
But then should we give Amatyakaraka the most importance in Dasamsa then?
Or the PK in d7? etc..
thank you very much
This Universe being expanding does not mean others Universes are expanding too. So relating it in our own way to Para brahm is just our own imagination. Moreover anything can be related to Para Brahm (esp. using loose relations) as all is Brahman. Point being this is just abstract talk but more than that Para Brahm cannot be explained by reason alone. So its futile trying to link Para Brahm with Astrology (or anything else) using reason.
And no reading Divisions as independent charts does not work. People are just making it work because by using too many variables (esp. loose usage in an abstract subject) absolutely anything can be justified. Recently I had charts of twins supposedly separated by 2 minutes. One had committed suicide years ago while the other is living. A practicing Astrologer (by mistake) took the birth month wrong by 10 months and explained it away. He didn't even need to venture into Divisions, just Astrogymnastics in D1 with dasha were enough to explain the "fate" and then he used KP dance of badaka with sookshma dasha and was convinced. One can only guess what he would have done using D "charts". Similar scenarios occurs everyday in Astrology circles. Its not funny anymore. Look at just about every analysis on this very forum. The word "Ridiculous" falls short.
Using Divisions as charts is a relatively new practice (250 years and has gained much popularity in the last few decades). Joni Patry was also taught Astrology the right way (using Divisions for what they are i.e not charts) because that is what Real Astrology is. She however moved away because she felt her hands were tied too much when not using houses, aspects, conjunctions in D "charts".
And no it is not the science of fractals to go to D1800 or further. That is just one's own imagination relating it to fractals, relativity, Universal soul, Supernova, Amitabh Bachchan and cat videos on youtube.
Yes D9 is the layout of the Navamsas but it ends there, it does not mean it starts behaving independently with aspects. And yes a planet transits 1/nth of a division too but that does not mean rules like Ashtakavarga are to be applied. A study of Ashtakavarga will make it obvious. Not sure how not treating divisions as charts destroys laws of symmetry but I haven't come across this law in Mathematics. Please enlighten using valid references.
JHORA is an experimental software based on SJC ideas in the beginning (many of which are in extremely questionable territory). So JHORA supporting anything does not mean anything in the real world. PVR ji has been kind enough to have included baseless theories in JHORA (many that even he does not believe in OR has moved away from).
Rathore
And no reading Divisions as independent charts does not work. People are just making it work because by using too many variables (esp. loose usage in an abstract subject) absolutely anything can be justified. Recently I had charts of twins supposedly separated by 2 minutes. One had committed suicide years ago while the other is living. A practicing Astrologer (by mistake) took the birth month wrong by 10 months and explained it away. He didn't even need to venture into Divisions, just Astrogymnastics in D1 with dasha were enough to explain the "fate" and then he used KP dance of badaka with sookshma dasha and was convinced. One can only guess what he would have done using D "charts". Similar scenarios occurs everyday in Astrology circles. Its not funny anymore. Look at just about every analysis on this very forum. The word "Ridiculous" falls short.
Using Divisions as charts is a relatively new practice (250 years and has gained much popularity in the last few decades). Joni Patry was also taught Astrology the right way (using Divisions for what they are i.e not charts) because that is what Real Astrology is. She however moved away because she felt her hands were tied too much when not using houses, aspects, conjunctions in D "charts".
And no it is not the science of fractals to go to D1800 or further. That is just one's own imagination relating it to fractals, relativity, Universal soul, Supernova, Amitabh Bachchan and cat videos on youtube.
Yes D9 is the layout of the Navamsas but it ends there, it does not mean it starts behaving independently with aspects. And yes a planet transits 1/nth of a division too but that does not mean rules like Ashtakavarga are to be applied. A study of Ashtakavarga will make it obvious. Not sure how not treating divisions as charts destroys laws of symmetry but I haven't come across this law in Mathematics. Please enlighten using valid references.
JHORA is an experimental software based on SJC ideas in the beginning (many of which are in extremely questionable territory). So JHORA supporting anything does not mean anything in the real world. PVR ji has been kind enough to have included baseless theories in JHORA (many that even he does not believe in OR has moved away from).
Rathore
GNE ji,
Parivartan in Navamsa is parivartan of Navamsas (not Signs). It is just considered a strong mutual relationship between two planets (just like tight conjunctions, mutual aspects are) hence pointing to a peculiar disposition. Parivartan in Dwadasamsa or any other division (except Drekkana) is not in the list of strong mutual relationships in texts. So its likely that it does not matter or maybe it is to be taken as a weak relationship only. This means one may not use "Parivartan" in Navamsa to mean it can be treated as Rashi chart (otherwise why wouldn't sages also list Parivartan in other divisions as a strong relationship?). One may still want to but you might have noticed any verses that talk about Parivartan in Navamsa never say what houses in navamsa the exchange should happen. They just say if two planets have exchanged navamsas plus another condition in D1 generally then predict XYZ result. However for parivartan in Rashi chart, N type of parivartans are defined using Kendra, kona, dushthana lords.
I am not sure when planets exchange navamsas they are to be considered in their own navamsas. If they are to be then it has to be under a certain set of context / rules only because once they are to be considered in own navamsas then the relationship between them ceases to exist. So this has to be worked within certain context. Unfortunately context jumping is normal in Astrology leading to strange derivations.
Astrology blogs on Internet are loaded with misinformation just like many posts here are. There are certain navamsas such as 64th navamas etc. or transits (in D1) based on a planet's natal navamsa/its trines that tie to health but using Divisions as "charts" independently for anything is plain wrong.
Rathore
Parivartan in Navamsa is parivartan of Navamsas (not Signs). It is just considered a strong mutual relationship between two planets (just like tight conjunctions, mutual aspects are) hence pointing to a peculiar disposition. Parivartan in Dwadasamsa or any other division (except Drekkana) is not in the list of strong mutual relationships in texts. So its likely that it does not matter or maybe it is to be taken as a weak relationship only. This means one may not use "Parivartan" in Navamsa to mean it can be treated as Rashi chart (otherwise why wouldn't sages also list Parivartan in other divisions as a strong relationship?). One may still want to but you might have noticed any verses that talk about Parivartan in Navamsa never say what houses in navamsa the exchange should happen. They just say if two planets have exchanged navamsas plus another condition in D1 generally then predict XYZ result. However for parivartan in Rashi chart, N type of parivartans are defined using Kendra, kona, dushthana lords.
I am not sure when planets exchange navamsas they are to be considered in their own navamsas. If they are to be then it has to be under a certain set of context / rules only because once they are to be considered in own navamsas then the relationship between them ceases to exist. So this has to be worked within certain context. Unfortunately context jumping is normal in Astrology leading to strange derivations.
Astrology blogs on Internet are loaded with misinformation just like many posts here are. There are certain navamsas such as 64th navamas etc. or transits (in D1) based on a planet's natal navamsa/its trines that tie to health but using Divisions as "charts" independently for anything is plain wrong.
Rathore
Thanks for the input Rathore, much appreciated.
I sense most of it is related to the 'discussion (debate?)' between Hock Leong and yourself regarding reading D-charts separately, talking about universes/supernovas, fractals,etc..
But I will say that yes I have noticed many people online and on this forum justify anything when reading a chart. My friend and I often did complain about readings and how I bet if I explain anything in their life using any dasha. I mean, they were in jupiter dasha at the time, but I said I bet if you told someone you were in mars dasha, or rahu, etc. anything else and showed them your chart then they would explain the events caused by jupiter but blame it on whatever other placement. Due to being able to check from Rasi...if that didn't work, then chandra lagna, then navamsa, then chandra lagna in navamsa, then etc...
Of course the truly skilled astrologers wouldn't have that issue and would sense something is incorrect, but they are hard to find these days with everyone and their grandmother making an astrology blog or video on youtube.
I've questioned many things on Jhora, mostly because when I see the author's settings...it's wacky.
not only the different ayanamsa, which is fine I guess, his opinion. But then all varga's are pretty much calculated differently than what anyone else does too...
If this was true then it would mean pretty much every other astrologer has been doing it wrong all along. Which to me doesn't make sense, and I feel the jhora author is just...well, I'll put it this way: he must be under a rahu or ketu dasha...
Don't get me wrong though, I thank him very much for the creation of the software and making it free to all.
I have noticed Joni was one who used Varga's as though they were a Rasi, and was one of the astrologers I respected most. So her doing that had me question whether or not it was correct...
She also follows the "you become your d9 chart after age 35-ish.." , which I don't agree with though. I know many people over 35-40 who are not much like their navamsa placements. And many celebrities who have fairly weak navamsa, yet are thriving still into their 40-50+'s...
As for parivartana in Navamsa, I do understand how it's an exchange of 'navamsa', not "signs". I was wondering about something I read online where various sites said they act as though in own navamsa (strength-wise)...but well, like everything online, I have to ask to second (third, fourth..etc) opinions...
I agree with what you said, "f they are to be then it has to be under a certain set of context / rules only because once they are to be considered in own navamsas then the relationship between them ceases to exist. So this has to be worked within certain context. "...
actually I asked about this because last week I read some blog where a person was saying "if there is a saturn-moon exchange or mutual association in navamsa, the person gets terminal cancer".
worst thing to write.
...mostly because they had no sloka or proof of it being true...
so I was slightly scared, though telling myself to ignore it... because I have sat-moon exchange+mutual aspect in d9...
however like I said in my earlier post, it didn't make sense to me, judging health just from navamsa like that.
Not to mention my mind was calmed further when I checked various charts and noticed people like Clint Eastwood, who's well over 80 years old, has sat/moon conjunction... my uncle, has it too in capricorn navamsa and he lived through sat-moon dasha. My mom has sat-moon mutual aspect, with saturn in aries, moon in libra navamsa and lived through her moon-saturn dasha too. ...
anyway, no need me explaining to you how it's likely not true, as I'd bet my house that you'd laugh at the concept to begin with, rightfully so.
This is the worst part about astrology these days, is blogs where people right things like that as if it's a classic sloka and 100% truth. Then people stumble onto it and have their days ruined. ha
I sense most of it is related to the 'discussion (debate?)' between Hock Leong and yourself regarding reading D-charts separately, talking about universes/supernovas, fractals,etc..
But I will say that yes I have noticed many people online and on this forum justify anything when reading a chart. My friend and I often did complain about readings and how I bet if I explain anything in their life using any dasha. I mean, they were in jupiter dasha at the time, but I said I bet if you told someone you were in mars dasha, or rahu, etc. anything else and showed them your chart then they would explain the events caused by jupiter but blame it on whatever other placement. Due to being able to check from Rasi...if that didn't work, then chandra lagna, then navamsa, then chandra lagna in navamsa, then etc...
Of course the truly skilled astrologers wouldn't have that issue and would sense something is incorrect, but they are hard to find these days with everyone and their grandmother making an astrology blog or video on youtube.
I've questioned many things on Jhora, mostly because when I see the author's settings...it's wacky.
not only the different ayanamsa, which is fine I guess, his opinion. But then all varga's are pretty much calculated differently than what anyone else does too...
If this was true then it would mean pretty much every other astrologer has been doing it wrong all along. Which to me doesn't make sense, and I feel the jhora author is just...well, I'll put it this way: he must be under a rahu or ketu dasha...
Don't get me wrong though, I thank him very much for the creation of the software and making it free to all.
I have noticed Joni was one who used Varga's as though they were a Rasi, and was one of the astrologers I respected most. So her doing that had me question whether or not it was correct...
She also follows the "you become your d9 chart after age 35-ish.." , which I don't agree with though. I know many people over 35-40 who are not much like their navamsa placements. And many celebrities who have fairly weak navamsa, yet are thriving still into their 40-50+'s...
As for parivartana in Navamsa, I do understand how it's an exchange of 'navamsa', not "signs". I was wondering about something I read online where various sites said they act as though in own navamsa (strength-wise)...but well, like everything online, I have to ask to second (third, fourth..etc) opinions...
I agree with what you said, "f they are to be then it has to be under a certain set of context / rules only because once they are to be considered in own navamsas then the relationship between them ceases to exist. So this has to be worked within certain context. "...
actually I asked about this because last week I read some blog where a person was saying "if there is a saturn-moon exchange or mutual association in navamsa, the person gets terminal cancer".
worst thing to write.
...mostly because they had no sloka or proof of it being true...
so I was slightly scared, though telling myself to ignore it... because I have sat-moon exchange+mutual aspect in d9...
however like I said in my earlier post, it didn't make sense to me, judging health just from navamsa like that.
Not to mention my mind was calmed further when I checked various charts and noticed people like Clint Eastwood, who's well over 80 years old, has sat/moon conjunction... my uncle, has it too in capricorn navamsa and he lived through sat-moon dasha. My mom has sat-moon mutual aspect, with saturn in aries, moon in libra navamsa and lived through her moon-saturn dasha too. ...
anyway, no need me explaining to you how it's likely not true, as I'd bet my house that you'd laugh at the concept to begin with, rightfully so.
This is the worst part about astrology these days, is blogs where people right things like that as if it's a classic sloka and 100% truth. Then people stumble onto it and have their days ruined. ha
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Khoo Hock Leong
- Frequent Contributor
- Posts: 7758
- Joined: 03 Jan 2009
GNE : I will reply to your 1st post first since my last reply (not in any order of the points you listed there).
Yes, you should look at AmK for D10, PK for D7 etc. In all cases AM should be looked at.
D7 has already been covered in my earlier posts and the same rules should govern. If a benefic sign is on the 7th of D7 it should turn evil and malefic sign on the 7th of D7 it should be a Rajayoga (both according to Bharvartha Ratnakara). The same precepts should apply for the D7 and for the D10 and for any other divisional charts. So concepts involving kendra should be no exception.
So similarly aspects from benefics are good (or aspect from the lord of the house on its own house - generally known) but aspects from malefics are bad (generally). Malefics in kendras again depending whether it is digbala {for kindness), in its own sign {for happiness).........all this have been previously covered.
If I said divisional charts can be analysed just like a Rasi Chart......then whatever I mentioned in my previous post should also apply to the 7th house of the D7. There should be no exception.
Don't forget to count the number of malefics in the kendras (excluding those in digbala or in their own signs for kindness and happiness respectively).
Yes, you should look at AmK for D10, PK for D7 etc. In all cases AM should be looked at.
D7 has already been covered in my earlier posts and the same rules should govern. If a benefic sign is on the 7th of D7 it should turn evil and malefic sign on the 7th of D7 it should be a Rajayoga (both according to Bharvartha Ratnakara). The same precepts should apply for the D7 and for the D10 and for any other divisional charts. So concepts involving kendra should be no exception.
So similarly aspects from benefics are good (or aspect from the lord of the house on its own house - generally known) but aspects from malefics are bad (generally). Malefics in kendras again depending whether it is digbala {for kindness), in its own sign {for happiness).........all this have been previously covered.
If I said divisional charts can be analysed just like a Rasi Chart......then whatever I mentioned in my previous post should also apply to the 7th house of the D7. There should be no exception.
Don't forget to count the number of malefics in the kendras (excluding those in digbala or in their own signs for kindness and happiness respectively).
Thanks for the reply to those earlier questions Hock Leong (I figure to call you that instead of Khoo, as I assume names in singapore are where the last is the first and first name is actually the last. ? if you'd prefer Khoo, let me know).
Assuming reading d10 like a Rasi, my AmK Jupiter is in own sign in ascendant with dig bala and aspected by benefic only. So I'm glad to hear AmK is important in that chart.
Forgot about the importance of checking number of malefics / benefics, thanks for that.
I guess then malefics in upachaya's would be considered "best" for them too then.
Almost all my varga's have a duel ascendant, so it's pretty much always Jupiter+Mercury ruling my kendra's .
What if someone's AmK was severely damaged in D10, but very well placed in Rasi?
And what about vice versa, damaged in rasi but well placed in D10?
Would it being weak in rasi but strong in d10 sort of be like 'difficulties at first, but success a bit later in life / after career has started to take off more '
then strong in rasi but weak in d10 could show a possible downfall?
Assuming reading d10 like a Rasi, my AmK Jupiter is in own sign in ascendant with dig bala and aspected by benefic only. So I'm glad to hear AmK is important in that chart.
Forgot about the importance of checking number of malefics / benefics, thanks for that.
I guess then malefics in upachaya's would be considered "best" for them too then.
Almost all my varga's have a duel ascendant, so it's pretty much always Jupiter+Mercury ruling my kendra's .
What if someone's AmK was severely damaged in D10, but very well placed in Rasi?
And what about vice versa, damaged in rasi but well placed in D10?
Would it being weak in rasi but strong in d10 sort of be like 'difficulties at first, but success a bit later in life / after career has started to take off more '
then strong in rasi but weak in d10 could show a possible downfall?
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Khoo Hock Leong
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Rathore :
These divisional charts represent the Jataka and are considered our Godhead. It is our para-brahma. When we die we merge with the Universal Atman. The Sun becomes Jupiter again (remember the Sun was borned out of Jupiter's Nakshatra) .....but Jupiter always reminding us we were once pure.....where the material world does not exist.
Jyotish is the eyes of the Vedas......and everything about the Vedas and the ancilliary Smitri can be explained by Jyotish. Remember....all this about Quantum Theory, Cosmology......these are only the tools to aid in understanding for humans like us. Of course God does not need that. What God wants is for us humans to get to know him........and I am trying to bridge it. I know it has been said many times by others who said they have manage to do this, to do that etc.....but in my case, I believe yes....I have done it.
Our Universe is expanding (I believe this can be guaged by several means like each planet the tilting of the axis has it gone more angular? Has some of the planets lost their Moon? Etc.) Other Universe is expanding, the proof is through the existence of blackholes and supernovas.
I already said it is not appropriate for a person to read divisional charts alone without reference to the Rasi.......BUT for people who attained siddhi (knowledge) and Brhman (the fundamental state of consciousness).........for those who have not and wants to aim for the potential for the divisional charts......by all means...........but the important thing is when we do delineation for others we stick to the proper way. I believe sometimes man can live by hope, even if there is a litter glimmer of success. But this you provide to the client ONLY IF HE ASK FOR IT AND STRESS THAT THE PATH OF TRUE SPIRITUALITY WOULD SOLVE ALL PROBLEMS AND MEETS ALL NEEDS.........so if he wants to concentrate on the divisional charts......give him all the help he can based on whatever you have learnt up to that date. I put it down in this forum for the knowledge of everyone.....and you have also stressed the futility of it (yes, I agree, but see my reason just), so thanks.
Science is constantly evolving. It evolves not only by discoveries.....but new paradigms and new models.......and also whether others have successfully use it to get results. That is why Joni Patry change her stance.
Mathematics and science are intricately connected to Jyotish whether you believe it or not. I have tried to tie in the precepts from Jyotish and the precepts form Science and Mathematics, so as to explain to everyone my view of Jyotish, and I believe I am right......because if you do Jyotish the wrong way round like taking divisional charts without aspects, yogas etc.....not only do you get less results like Joni Patry.......but spiritually you would suffer too beause Jyotish is not used the right way.
Yes, my take on Navamsa is that it should not be read independently (more so than any other divisional charts - see my earlier reply). Ashtakavarga can be applied to divisional charts because the 'time, space" in divisional charts is not as what we normal human beings visualize it should be. That was the common theme in all my replies.
The thing is....there is a mantra called Poornavanam (fullness - not sure of the spelling)....if you look at the lyrics it talk about fullness everwhere......from the lower layers and those enveloping us....it epitmomizes symmetry.
For Jyotish, being a spiritual science, one does not limit our references to just the Vedas or any Sanskrit text......some of which may be buried in many layers of text....but if we discover it by God's grace for a particular instance or various instances or we were given the gift to actually able to spot such things.....all the better. I somehow seem to have a mixture of both gifts. Anyway, the point is the references can be from mantras or omens or what is used as amulets etc. I mean I am glad we have all the references in the classics but these were given by God to enlightened men like Parasara, so if limit ourselves to only the classical text by them, it would not be doing justice to God or for that matter, humanity who needs to know the truth. So for spirituality matters, people can also toy with the idea and through countless interactions (whether the internet or classes etc. does not really matter - these are only the tools), they can discover for themselves what they can take it for their own personal precepts and what they can discard.
Yes, I agree with you Jhora takes in other theories....but only if they are of some standing and use for some time.
Anyway, if you are in Singapore, let me know via email.......
khoo_hockleong@[No Personal Contact Details on Public Forum].com
and mabye we can meet up for lunch.
These divisional charts represent the Jataka and are considered our Godhead. It is our para-brahma. When we die we merge with the Universal Atman. The Sun becomes Jupiter again (remember the Sun was borned out of Jupiter's Nakshatra) .....but Jupiter always reminding us we were once pure.....where the material world does not exist.
Jyotish is the eyes of the Vedas......and everything about the Vedas and the ancilliary Smitri can be explained by Jyotish. Remember....all this about Quantum Theory, Cosmology......these are only the tools to aid in understanding for humans like us. Of course God does not need that. What God wants is for us humans to get to know him........and I am trying to bridge it. I know it has been said many times by others who said they have manage to do this, to do that etc.....but in my case, I believe yes....I have done it.
Our Universe is expanding (I believe this can be guaged by several means like each planet the tilting of the axis has it gone more angular? Has some of the planets lost their Moon? Etc.) Other Universe is expanding, the proof is through the existence of blackholes and supernovas.
I already said it is not appropriate for a person to read divisional charts alone without reference to the Rasi.......BUT for people who attained siddhi (knowledge) and Brhman (the fundamental state of consciousness).........for those who have not and wants to aim for the potential for the divisional charts......by all means...........but the important thing is when we do delineation for others we stick to the proper way. I believe sometimes man can live by hope, even if there is a litter glimmer of success. But this you provide to the client ONLY IF HE ASK FOR IT AND STRESS THAT THE PATH OF TRUE SPIRITUALITY WOULD SOLVE ALL PROBLEMS AND MEETS ALL NEEDS.........so if he wants to concentrate on the divisional charts......give him all the help he can based on whatever you have learnt up to that date. I put it down in this forum for the knowledge of everyone.....and you have also stressed the futility of it (yes, I agree, but see my reason just), so thanks.
Science is constantly evolving. It evolves not only by discoveries.....but new paradigms and new models.......and also whether others have successfully use it to get results. That is why Joni Patry change her stance.
Mathematics and science are intricately connected to Jyotish whether you believe it or not. I have tried to tie in the precepts from Jyotish and the precepts form Science and Mathematics, so as to explain to everyone my view of Jyotish, and I believe I am right......because if you do Jyotish the wrong way round like taking divisional charts without aspects, yogas etc.....not only do you get less results like Joni Patry.......but spiritually you would suffer too beause Jyotish is not used the right way.
Yes, my take on Navamsa is that it should not be read independently (more so than any other divisional charts - see my earlier reply). Ashtakavarga can be applied to divisional charts because the 'time, space" in divisional charts is not as what we normal human beings visualize it should be. That was the common theme in all my replies.
The thing is....there is a mantra called Poornavanam (fullness - not sure of the spelling)....if you look at the lyrics it talk about fullness everwhere......from the lower layers and those enveloping us....it epitmomizes symmetry.
For Jyotish, being a spiritual science, one does not limit our references to just the Vedas or any Sanskrit text......some of which may be buried in many layers of text....but if we discover it by God's grace for a particular instance or various instances or we were given the gift to actually able to spot such things.....all the better. I somehow seem to have a mixture of both gifts. Anyway, the point is the references can be from mantras or omens or what is used as amulets etc. I mean I am glad we have all the references in the classics but these were given by God to enlightened men like Parasara, so if limit ourselves to only the classical text by them, it would not be doing justice to God or for that matter, humanity who needs to know the truth. So for spirituality matters, people can also toy with the idea and through countless interactions (whether the internet or classes etc. does not really matter - these are only the tools), they can discover for themselves what they can take it for their own personal precepts and what they can discard.
Yes, I agree with you Jhora takes in other theories....but only if they are of some standing and use for some time.
Anyway, if you are in Singapore, let me know via email.......
khoo_hockleong@[No Personal Contact Details on Public Forum].com
and mabye we can meet up for lunch.
Last edited by Khoo Hock Leong on 02 Feb 2015, edited 1 time in total.
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Khoo Hock Leong
- Frequent Contributor
- Posts: 7758
- Joined: 03 Jan 2009
GNE :
I think your questions now come to needing answers on how to interpret various aspects of the divisional charts.....I think it would be better to ask them in the divisional charts section.
Most of the questions you ask the answers can be gleaned from my past write-ups.
I think your questions now come to needing answers on how to interpret various aspects of the divisional charts.....I think it would be better to ask them in the divisional charts section.
Most of the questions you ask the answers can be gleaned from my past write-ups.
Khoo ji,
I request the source of the following:
1. Divisional "charts" are our Godhead
2. They are our Par Brahm
3. Sun becomes Jupiter again after death
4. Spiritual suffering when not using D charts
From what I know expanding Universe does not have an effect on planets, stars and moons within a galaxy. Galaxies are moving away from each other but even that is subject to local galaxy cluster distribution. So Andromeda will merge with the Milky way in the far future. By the way there is a theory that the Universe is not expanding and the red shift is just because the mass of the Universe is increasing somehow. Point being, we don't really know and its not a good idea to create ideas based on theories that are subject to research.
Not only it is not appropriate to read Divisions alone but looking for Yogas, aspects in them is also incorrect. There is no question about it. For those who have realized Para-Brahm or have specific Siddhis they have the ability to tell things just like that.
The example of Jony Patry changing stance is to demonstrate that real traditional Astrology (where she learnt from) has no place for D "charts". However many people have taken the D "charts" stance now and the results are in front of us. Now a days it is a joke to have your chart read by most Astrologers including many prominent ones. You can understand this even better if you were in India. Sure a handful Astrologers know a bunch of techniques (that they learned from real Traditional Astrologers esp. Nadi techniques) that work very well and I know some too which I will never reveal to most considering their misuse. But the point is this is how some can still make outstanding predictions (and not because of the D chart dance).
About the "Spiritual suffering" when not using D charts, that is a personal opinion because traditional Astrologers would have the opposing opinion knowing anyone using Yogas etc. in divisions is kidding himself and the client.
Mathematics is intricately connected to Jyotish. Sure.
Science is also but which Science? Physics, Geology, Botany, Social science, Computer science, all? If all then we are probably in the territory of relating anything to anything using loose connections.
In Ashtakvarga each Kakshya has a planetary ruler except the nodes. In Trimsamsa Sun and Moon have no rulership, so how would one apply Ashtakvarga points there? Many inconsistencies like this appear when applying Rashi chart rules to Divisions and they all go away when Astrology is used as taught in the texts.
Mantras generally talk in terms of similes and should not be taken literally. Sure all is full of Brahmaan (or whatever that mantra talks about) that does not mean quantum mechanic rules work at the heavenly body level and vice versa. The fullness being implied is probably the subtle God (and not the rules governing various aspects of the Universe). Similarly it should not be taken to mean that the same rules of Rashi chart apply to the levels of its divisions just because of fullness or symmetry.
I understand not all is there in Sanskrit texts but the rules of Aspects, Yogas, Divisions are clear when one reviews the mathematics of it. Thank you for the invite. I do hope to visit Singapore some day.
Rathore
I request the source of the following:
1. Divisional "charts" are our Godhead
2. They are our Par Brahm
3. Sun becomes Jupiter again after death
4. Spiritual suffering when not using D charts
From what I know expanding Universe does not have an effect on planets, stars and moons within a galaxy. Galaxies are moving away from each other but even that is subject to local galaxy cluster distribution. So Andromeda will merge with the Milky way in the far future. By the way there is a theory that the Universe is not expanding and the red shift is just because the mass of the Universe is increasing somehow. Point being, we don't really know and its not a good idea to create ideas based on theories that are subject to research.
Not only it is not appropriate to read Divisions alone but looking for Yogas, aspects in them is also incorrect. There is no question about it. For those who have realized Para-Brahm or have specific Siddhis they have the ability to tell things just like that.
The example of Jony Patry changing stance is to demonstrate that real traditional Astrology (where she learnt from) has no place for D "charts". However many people have taken the D "charts" stance now and the results are in front of us. Now a days it is a joke to have your chart read by most Astrologers including many prominent ones. You can understand this even better if you were in India. Sure a handful Astrologers know a bunch of techniques (that they learned from real Traditional Astrologers esp. Nadi techniques) that work very well and I know some too which I will never reveal to most considering their misuse. But the point is this is how some can still make outstanding predictions (and not because of the D chart dance).
About the "Spiritual suffering" when not using D charts, that is a personal opinion because traditional Astrologers would have the opposing opinion knowing anyone using Yogas etc. in divisions is kidding himself and the client.
Mathematics is intricately connected to Jyotish. Sure.
Science is also but which Science? Physics, Geology, Botany, Social science, Computer science, all? If all then we are probably in the territory of relating anything to anything using loose connections.
In Ashtakvarga each Kakshya has a planetary ruler except the nodes. In Trimsamsa Sun and Moon have no rulership, so how would one apply Ashtakvarga points there? Many inconsistencies like this appear when applying Rashi chart rules to Divisions and they all go away when Astrology is used as taught in the texts.
Mantras generally talk in terms of similes and should not be taken literally. Sure all is full of Brahmaan (or whatever that mantra talks about) that does not mean quantum mechanic rules work at the heavenly body level and vice versa. The fullness being implied is probably the subtle God (and not the rules governing various aspects of the Universe). Similarly it should not be taken to mean that the same rules of Rashi chart apply to the levels of its divisions just because of fullness or symmetry.
I understand not all is there in Sanskrit texts but the rules of Aspects, Yogas, Divisions are clear when one reviews the mathematics of it. Thank you for the invite. I do hope to visit Singapore some day.
Rathore
Sir, this thread has confused me completely. Honestly, though many would disagree with me here, I have never used Navamsa for my prediction. I don't know why, but I get all my answers in birth charts itself. And plus reading this thread has completely confused me!
I'm sorry but I was told by an astrologer I have Saturn in libra in birth chart whereas Aries Saturn in Navamsa. So though I will rise in career, "debilitated Saturn" would make me struggle a lot. I understand this topic about yogas in navamsa so why I'm mentioning exaltation and debilitation is because in my birth chart Saturn is giving me Sasa yoga but since it is debilitated in Navamsa, I'm not sure what to make of it?!!
I'm sorry but I was told by an astrologer I have Saturn in libra in birth chart whereas Aries Saturn in Navamsa. So though I will rise in career, "debilitated Saturn" would make me struggle a lot. I understand this topic about yogas in navamsa so why I'm mentioning exaltation and debilitation is because in my birth chart Saturn is giving me Sasa yoga but since it is debilitated in Navamsa, I'm not sure what to make of it?!!
sn161 ji,
Your approach of reading from birth chart only is sound. A whole lot can be told just by reading D1 along with Varshphal. Sound Astrologers rarely look at divisions because divisions only help determining strength, dignity and some other peculiarities (all this can be very useful though). So looking for Yogas in divisions is not needed (they are not there to begin with). Looking at Navamsa though helps a lot in terms of strength, dignity and some D1 yogas that need planets to be in certain navamsas.
Rathore
Your approach of reading from birth chart only is sound. A whole lot can be told just by reading D1 along with Varshphal. Sound Astrologers rarely look at divisions because divisions only help determining strength, dignity and some other peculiarities (all this can be very useful though). So looking for Yogas in divisions is not needed (they are not there to begin with). Looking at Navamsa though helps a lot in terms of strength, dignity and some D1 yogas that need planets to be in certain navamsas.
Rathore
Sir you're right. Now if someone has gaj kesari (jup in saggitarius in 6 th house with 12th lord mercury, and lagna lord moon in 12th house) but in navamsa it is taurus jup in 4th house with scorpio moon in 10th)... so why would we look at navamsa w.r.t. career? Does it mean D1 holds value before 28 yrs of age or before marriage and navamsa holds value after marriage?
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vyvasvatha manu
- Contributor
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yogas work in navamsha as well...
mahapurusha yogas have description of physical build etc to aid de astrologer in d1 analysis.
wen applied in d9, mahapurusha yogas can show strong character of de related planet in de person.
for example merc exalted in 4th from moon/ak in d9 can show a person with really good analytical abilities.
have seen this in charts.
also parivarthanas in navamsha n other divisional charts work.
and as far as makin fun of khoo's point was concerned, he does have a valid point.
without dark energy moving matter in de universe, there can no movement....n without movement, there is no time, n without time there is no astrology.
and de jibe about weather humidity n climate such things cud also b accommodated if losely considered, rathore need not take those pains,,, maharshis have already done tht, n explained de strengths of diffrent planets in different seasons, months, days, times of de day etc,,,,weather and climate are a result of movement aft all....
everything is a result of motion, and thus everythin starts and ends in dark energy which has been called paramaathma.
mahapurusha yogas have description of physical build etc to aid de astrologer in d1 analysis.
wen applied in d9, mahapurusha yogas can show strong character of de related planet in de person.
for example merc exalted in 4th from moon/ak in d9 can show a person with really good analytical abilities.
have seen this in charts.
also parivarthanas in navamsha n other divisional charts work.
and as far as makin fun of khoo's point was concerned, he does have a valid point.
without dark energy moving matter in de universe, there can no movement....n without movement, there is no time, n without time there is no astrology.
and de jibe about weather humidity n climate such things cud also b accommodated if losely considered, rathore need not take those pains,,, maharshis have already done tht, n explained de strengths of diffrent planets in different seasons, months, days, times of de day etc,,,,weather and climate are a result of movement aft all....
everything is a result of motion, and thus everythin starts and ends in dark energy which has been called paramaathma.
No they don't. People are just talking themselves into made up concepts. And please don't relate Astrology to dark energy, climate or the adventures of tin tin in a lose manner because that way anything can be related to anything but will fail miserably when trying to put it to some real use. And if you reply - source your statements from a real text of how in D9 mahapurush yoga reflects the character of a person. Also please enlighten what does Kemdrum in D30 means 
Kemdrum in d30 means when you're sick you feel alone. haha , kidding of course.
what about a panch mahaparush in d16?
say one has ruchaka yoga in that chart, would they drive a powerful red car...that later gets destroyed in a fire.
etc.
I think any mahaparush in d9 seems to most astrologers to be working, because simply it's just a planet in a beneficial navamsa / placement for it + gaining strength. So say, badhra in d9 would give the person more qualities of a good mercury, and thus to most "seems" like the mahaparush is working....but really its most likely just the result of a strong mercury.
....vasumati yoga in d30....you make easy money when you're ill.
ha
anyway, carry on...
what about a panch mahaparush in d16?
say one has ruchaka yoga in that chart, would they drive a powerful red car...that later gets destroyed in a fire.
etc.
I think any mahaparush in d9 seems to most astrologers to be working, because simply it's just a planet in a beneficial navamsa / placement for it + gaining strength. So say, badhra in d9 would give the person more qualities of a good mercury, and thus to most "seems" like the mahaparush is working....but really its most likely just the result of a strong mercury.
....vasumati yoga in d30....you make easy money when you're ill.
ha
anyway, carry on...
GNE ji, thanks for the good laughs.
Mahapurush in D12: You are a mahapurush in your parent's view ...but not really
Amala yoga in D30: You become philanthropic when sick or when misfortune hits you.
Saraswati in D16: You are an intellectual, a good speaker but only when riding/driving.
You are right its the strength of planets infusing their qualities and that should be the take away for anyone looking at this thread and wanting to learn some real Astrology.
Rathore
Mahapurush in D12: You are a mahapurush in your parent's view ...but not really
Amala yoga in D30: You become philanthropic when sick or when misfortune hits you.
Saraswati in D16: You are an intellectual, a good speaker but only when riding/driving.
You are right its the strength of planets infusing their qualities and that should be the take away for anyone looking at this thread and wanting to learn some real Astrology.
Rathore
