What is happening with my Planetary War?

[GNE]

Hello all,
I have a planetary war in my chart between Mercury + Venus, both are retrograde which makes it a bit complex.
My question is not just who's winning (jhora says Venus), but mostly what are the effects that this might cause?

I ask because to me, if it wasn't for reading that planetary war is generally bad, I would believe this very close conjunction is infact purely auspicious for me. Based on how my life as been in relation to what the planets involve represent ,and the houses they rule in my chart. (I used to joke to my friends that my planets aren't at war, they are hugging or holding hands..)

Would this war ruin / weaking some the houses ruled by the loosing(or both) planet(s)?

How would you read this 'war' in my chart?

Any opnions are welcome,
thank you very much!


April 15, 1985
10:54 am
Toronto (Ontario, canada)
*
(I know my birthtime is close to being cancer lagna, but long story short it's been rectified. So please confidently use the time I've given. thanks)

[GNE]

What I'm getting at is I can't seem to ever see the negative effects of a graha yuddha to the extent that other astrologers and websites say. (planet defeated gives no good , is dead, it's houses are weakened, etc.)
Least in my case I haven't felt any effects of a 1-4 or 5-12 house issue, nor mercury or venus problems....
But of course I'm not professional , so am asking those here for their knowledge and opinion as to what my "war" might be doing in my chart.

And yes I have read articles on Hitler's graha yuddha, and woody allen's, but to me I feel their situations could be explained in other ways ignoring the graha yuddha.
If one is to use celebrity examples, what about Dean Martin, or Robert Duvall (both have "AA" rodden rating times), their charts have 3 planets at war.
Or Paul Newman, who has a mer/ven war in the ascendant, ...etc.


thanks

[GNE]

Anyone?

I'll simplify my question: I'm asking just what sort of effects might my graha-yuddha be causing ...especially for the loosing planet (jhora says mercury).
?

[GNE]

I`m posting again in this topic instead of starting a new one, since my question is the same as here.

I had another mini `reading`with an astrologer who spoke ills of my graha yuddha with mer-ven, though they didn`t say what the outcome was exactly. just "oh no, there's a graha yuddha..thats bad.."

So I'm asking here again,
what are your opinions as far as the results of my "War" between mer-ven?

because honestly I have never had any accurate description as far as it's outcome from any astrologer, professional or not.
They've said things like it affects the houses mer lords, but that would be completely untrue to me, I have had no issues related to 1st/4th house , or even much with 10...but any small issue with 10 could be due to Jup's negative placement I feel.

again my info is:

April 15, 1985
10:54 am
Toronto, (ontario, in Canada)

time has been rectified.


I honestly believe graha yuddha doesn't work, I've come across many celebrity charts where the war has done nothing negative really. And have an uncle with a war in his chart between Mars+mercury for Aquarius Lagna, yet if one was asked to say which area of his life he appears to be thriving in, it would be between 10-3-5-8 (has had no disease) ..

If planetary war has any negative effect I feel it's only when the planets in war are on the same degree
(ex: both on 7 degree. one is 7.22, the other 7.12. (just an example))
but even 1 degree away isn't a war. In the sky the planets would appear side by side anyway, not with one obstructed by the "winners" rays.

My reason for believing we need to toss planetary war out of the window unless the planets share the exact degree, is like I said, I have just not seen it working at all.
Charts that have wars that astrologers use to "prove" the theory I feel can (and have) been explained using other technique, not related to the graha yuddha.


Though I would love to get a "ah-ha!" moment on the subject here, and feel planetary war works.

In tropical astrology there is no planetary war...infact planets at closer degree are making the conjunction stronger... Unless they are enemy planets or one is malefic lord for the ascendant.

I'm not saying that theory is correct, but it's certainly seemed to make more sense to me based on charts I've seen with "Wars".

all makes me think of this quote from an article on planetary war from this site here:
"Planetary war is a area that should be researched. It's confusing that there are so many opinions about it. One thing that I appreciate about K.N. Rao's approach to Vedic astrology is that he relies on practical research, and hard core results, not dogma. If a method or principle given in classical texts doesn't work based on your experience with a series of charts then don't use it."


thank you.

[rathore]

As you have noticed when planets are separated by a degree they don't usually show overlapping in the sky. I think it is because of difference in their latitudes. So arises the question if they are really at war when there is no overlap? If this is true then its rare to see a real war in a chart. This is probably one of the reasons Shri K N Rao says more research is needed on this aspect.

There is at least one verse I remember that talks good about planetary war. It goes something like this (from memory so subject to errors) - if two planets are in war (in kendra?) and a natural benefic wins while another benefic aspects then all doshas (related to longevity?) of the chart disappear into thin air.

I think because of the usage of the heavy word "WAR", it is assumed to be more destructive than other factors (after all Star wars are much more serious than World wars ). But it is just one of the many factors to be taken into account. Transfer of some of the shadbal points to the winner takes place and there is a verse saying the divisions of the loser are fruitless, which I think means the yogas of planets falling in many divisions of the losing planets takes a hit.

Rathore

[GNE]

Thanks for replying rathore, much appreciated.

I agree its a subject that needs more research... As like I said in my earlier posts here, I've seen many celebrity charts with wars ("true" wars too ...those where the planets share the exact degree) and they don't seem to be loosing effect of raj yoga the war may also be causing, nor damaging the house much at all.
Take actor Jake Gyllanhaal (who has a AA astro rodden rating chart ), his jupiter+Saturn are in war (according to jhora) he is cancer lagna, Jup/Saturn are in the third house
He has a healthy relationship with siblings, worked with his sister even in a few films, not to mention being an artist/actor himself in media(3rd house). His father(9th house, as jupiter apparently "looses" the war) and him get along, I've read biographies where both parents were very supportive and help his career, and father is still alive. He also is apparently very spiritual and into astrology himself(jake), also travels (9th house), is in good health(or at least no real big public news of a illness or major injury..) (some 6th house jupiter indications..)

He also entered Jupiter MD in 2013, and his career has only been thriving more and more since then. He currently just received a few award nominations for his latest movie many people are calling his best performance to date.


I've come across many more examples of course...
the chart of classic actor/tv personality Dean Martin shows him with a war(or two) in his fourth house between 10th lord Mars + jupiter http://www.astrosage.com/celebrity-Horo ... -chart.asp

Now if planet with lower degree wins...then Jupiter won. The war is in kendra, and mercury - another benefic(neutral I guess) does aspect...so perhaps the verse you mentioned does work in this case?
Needs more research of course...

The verse would almost work for me...my "War" is between 2 benefics, and in kendra...only thing missing is another aspect from a benefic. (unless the fact that they are 2 benefic for my ascendant in conjunction counts as the "winner" being aspected by a benefic too?)

Hm..
hard to know for sure whats going on there, but my main concern is that if mercury looses my war (as jhora says), then why don't I feel much (or any...) negative effects pertaining to the houses it rules / mercury itself.
Thus my idea that a true "war" much be planets on the same degree only. (like Hitler..)

But like you showed with the verse you referenced, there is likely more information / verses and opinions from other great sages out there and astrologers/researchers just need to find them and test them out.

I read many books that make it sound like a planet loosing a war is dead / can do nothing, etc.
But I can say that hasn't been true, not only with celebrity examples, but myself...my past mercury AD was one of my most fruitful periods (graduated high school, entered art college and instantly because top of the class pretty much within 1-2 weeks. On top of having no illness or 1st / 4th house related issues...)

Divisions (possible planets in the losers nakshatra too?) being fruitless, I cannot comment on as haven't looked into it enough, and I myself don't have too many planets in mercury divisions and none in a mercury ruled nakshatra (if that counts too).

[rathore]

Degree (longitude) of planets are separate from their latitudes. For latitude in JHORA right click -> Latitutes, Speeds etc.

In case of Gyllenhaal the latitude difference suggests that planets may not really be overlapping. So assuming planets must touch each others disc atleast (if not overlap) to be at war then many cases of degree wise wars are not true wars. However more research is needed for a conclusion.

The verse is from Evils cancelled at birth chapter in Saravali:



Books can make planetary war sound fatalistic but then that is what they make just about everything sound like (such as Mars in 7th or 8th kills the spouse)

[GNE]

ohh, I never knew to check latitudes on jhora. Thanks a lot Rathore for bringing that up.
Gyllenhaals saturn and jupiter are within "war" degree(slightly under 1 degree) , I checked his latitudes in Jhora, Jupiter was at 1 (1.something..) , and saturn at 2.3...
My mercury was at 0.4.. and venus at 5.2.. so farther difference there...

I agree it seems more research is needed for a true conclusion, same with my "theory" that effects of a true 'war' is when planets are sharing the degree only (thus would appear in the sky as though one is blocking the other. 1 degree away would look side by side, though very close of course).

I have a saravali PDF downloaded, and am kicking myself in regards to having missed that sloka in my many reads of that chapter. (Infact I was reading parts of it a couple days ago...) this is what I get for only "skimming"/speed-reading while eating my lunch at the computer.


May I ask what does it mean by "If a planet has a Halo (in the sky)..." ? halo?

And do you think a benefic in a war with another benefic would count as though the winning planet is aspected by a benefic(the other planet it was conjunct) ?


I agree many books(and thus, websites/blogs where people quote the books) can make many things seem full of "doom and gloom", similarly they can make simple raj yogas sound like everyone is going to become the next Bill Gates or president.

[rathore]

Yes differing latitudes is the reason planets don't show touching or overlapping even when at the exact same degree. This (occultation) is extremely rare. Moreover parallax can make the planets show overlapping in one hemisphere & not in the other. So if the assumption that planets need to overlap (or touch) for a true WAR is correct then it follows that WAR should be topocentric. But then if the war is happening on one side of the Earth while someone is being born on the other side then is it not war for them? Its like saying if eclipse is not visible in one's region then someone being born there doesn't have it in their chart. So WAR is a geocentric phenomena and it possibly needs the longitude as well as the latitude to happen.

I don't know about the Halo part but maybe it means when the planet is shining so brightly that a halo seems to appear around it (meaning it has strength). This might be when its conjunt a full bright Moon. I am just guessing.

I don't think the verse applies without a benefic aspecting.

Rathore

[rathore]

The link below gives a better detail of true planetary war.

http://vedicastrology.wikidot.com/planetary-war

[GNE]

Excellent find! thanks.

I was meanwhile trying to find out what the "halo" the sarvali spoke of could mean... no luck. Though one member on an old 'indiadivine' forum post I found on google wrote something like : "if a planet has a halo(shining bright) .."
So much like you were thinking too, that it likely means the planet is shining so brightly a halo seems to appear around it.
Not sure if a full moon is needed or not though of course.
I have seen planets in the sky when stargazing that appear sometimes so bright, yet it's a dark moon night...
who knows.

As for the information in the link you posted, I'm still digesting and re-reading it. Quite complex at first, and I'm not sure which 'war' I have...though seems they are saying more negative with latitude+longtitude are close/overlapping, like you thought initially. When latitude is over 1 degree away, it seems it's not a real war.
Which would make my war a less inauspicious one..


This quote was a stand-out to me:
"Suryasiddhānta adds that planets do not actually fight among themselves because they are away from each other in fact, Graha-Yuddha ia actually a means to give BHāva or Abhāva (fruits) to the Lokas. "

[hari766]

GNE
I have a planetary war in my tenth house, between Mercury (7th and 10th lord), and Mars (5th and 12th lord). I also have noticed that in my hands, the little finger and ring finger are joined closely. Unlike other ppl, I can't bend the little finger without bending the other one. I am just curious if this palmistry-related matter in any way connected to this planetary war from an astro perspective. Do you have any such peculiarity in your hands?

[GNE]

Hey Hari,
I can bend my ring finger without bending others, same with middle (or any finger for that matter) I mean I can bend them all without others moving.
I would say they are joint somewhat close...though not actually touching fully. But very close.

Not sure what else I should be looking for in palmistry... ay ideas?
Mounts?
I notice my mercury (little) finger is pretty long, it reaches just past the top phalange line on the ring finger, mercury mount is also well formed and has no "X" or negative looking shape on it. (I say this as apparently mercury looses my 'war' based on what hora says)

I also know 10th house rules knees....which mine are very strong, infact when doing camera videography work I'd often "walk" on my knees for lengths of time(to get certain types of shots with camera), even on pavement, no knee-pads, and yet no pain, no bruise. I use to show off to peolpe as a kid how strong my knees are. ha (I can "fall" from standing position onto my knees and not get hurt).
this made me wonder later on when I read 10th house is related to knees....as if thats true then mine must'nt be harmed by the war or it's lords debilitated placement much..?
(Or is knees the sign of capricorn instead? as it's the strongest house/sign in my chart, least based on bhava bala + ashtakvaraga)

[hari766]

Hi GNE
Mercury finger reaching past the top phalange of ring finger is pretty long indeed. Hope you checked it from the other side of the hand, as that can give a clearer picture of where the finger starts. I have average knee strength (though healthy, with no bruise/pain) but my tenth is a crowded place in my chart with it's lord exalted. Capricorn is my second house and its lord goes to the eighth. So I think, in your case, the strength of Cp made the difference.

[GNE]

Hey hari766,

yeah from the palm side the mercury tip goes just a bit past the tip phalange line on the ring finger,
from the other side(back of hand) it reaches the middle of the ring finger's top knuckle (and if my nail is longer/not cut recently, the nail hits the bottom of the ring finger's nail).

Capricorn is my 8th house,
it's lord in 6th, retrograde, aspecting 8th (saturn in 6).
I have jupiter debilitated in 8/cap, but gets NB since saturn is kendra from moon + aspects jupiter.
cap gets no further aspect, just jupiter+it's lord sat....so maybe thats why it's strong? I'm not sure.
but had highest bhava bala + ashtakavarga numbers so I figured it was.

my tenth just has mercury/venus (for gemini lagna. ..so 1-4-5-12 lord).

[rathore]

The above picture is of Moon & Venus supposedly at WAR by Jhora (Samagam actually). Both were less than 15 minutes (1/4th of a degree) apart in longitude when this was taken (right now). But the latitude difference is high (Moon 3.826 deg , Venus -1.585 deg in JHORA). This is the reason their discs will not touch and are very far literally. Both are in Dhanishta - 2 at the time of this post. This is why I feel classics are carrying Planetary War concept in a corrupted manner. It may still be the type of war that needs mixing of rays of planets but that is subject to subjectivity.

Rathore

[GNE]

Great pic rathore!

I have been saying to my friends that I feel there is a corruption in the classics in regards to graha yuddha, unfortunately I'm no astrology authority able to state that idea publicly / online. Especially when my feeling was just a "hunch", and I didn't have much proof to back it up.

Besides not seeing a "War" in a chart actually giving much of any effect, the biggest reason I felt something was "off" about the idea was that scientifically it never made sense to me (maybe it's my satabisha moon, where I need to have an astrology theory also make sense scientifically, otherwise I don't really buy into it, unless I see it's working with many charts) - as your photo shows, planets at "war" aren't even (usually) touching, and they both shine rays back to earth the same way they did 2,3,4,5,etc. degrees apart from one another when not at "war".

But if "graha yuddha" is really a thing, you have convinced me that it needs to be both within 1 degree longitude AND latitude.

Thanks for going out and getting that photo. (or if you didn't take it, thanks for posting it never the less!)

[rathore]

Logically speaking, WAR probably means planets so close to each other (one scenario is occultation as viewed from Earth) that one planet is blocked fully / partially for sometime. Or in second scenario their halos are close enough resulting in mixing of rays (here rays may not necessarily mean light rays only). In both scenarios the mixing because of extreme proximity must need special attention (just like eclipses get special attention). Now one of the participant is likely to have more say in the mixing (because of being brighter or latitute or longitude or whatever parameters determine result of a WAR) so the other participant has lesser say in this extremely close conjunction. This uneven mixing of rays (which will tilt more towards one planet) seems to be the reason strength of one planet is lessened (its result giving ability) while the other can give more. This seems to have been expressed in terms of Shadbal difference in classics. There is also a case where no planet wins or loses which means the mixing of rays is even.

You can observe the same as in the picture because Moon is going to be conjunct all planets over a period of a month.

Rathore

[strader]

I just saw this - Feb 2018.

Not sure if you are still seeking views on Grah Yuddh.

Here's some material if still interested "http://www.edithhathaway.com/pdf/Graha_Yuddha.pdf". The information varies with what most others say, including vedic astrology software like Jagannatha Hora, Kala etc.

Cheers.