Sakata Yoga

[ila]

Dear Violet,
Is not the Sakata yoga cancelled because Jupiter is in his exaltation rasi and so forms the Makuta Yoga? i have not cast your chart btw......just asking
ila

[VioletTwilight]

Thank you Athreya and Violet for the birthday wishes and observations.

Athreya - Don't think Me is a that malefic for Pisces, Ve and Sa are more malefic. Expecting Moon dasa to match or better Sun dasa since it a trikona lord placed in friendly sign and exaltation navamsa with weak Adhi yoga:)

Violet- I concur that we should look the chart as a whole and relationships between planets are very important. Actually Ve dasa was not bad for me, gave frequent minor health problems but good education though family background was average. I think my Sun is strong and Moon is not as strong as Sun but not bad, so I should be realizing Malavya yoga effects - right?, though Ju is deb. Not sure of the planet culprit delaying my marriage, may be the strong Ve herself:)

Dear huien1,

I am sure you would've looked at other discussions on Mahapurusha yogas and their results. It is really hard to see their results if not for excellent Sun and Moon. "Not bad" gives you good life but not MPY results.

Best regards,
Violet

[VioletTwilight]

....
Hi Violet,

It is interesting that Jupiter though exalted in your ascendant has not given good results in its periods because of its being in the 8th from the Moon, causing Sakata yoga. Otherwise, exalted 9th lord in lagna is supposed to give very good results. My uncle has exalted Jupiter in ascendant, and in his Jupiter AD, his life turned around completely, for the better, though it is true, in his case it is not forming Sakata yoga.

Basab

Dear Basab,

Agreed to basic premise.
You have to say which MD for that Jupiter AD. Looks like Jupiter exalted in lagna didn't confer life-long MPY but rather needed a "turn around"?

Best regards,
Violet

[VioletTwilight]

Dear Violet,
Is not the Sakata yoga cancelled because Jupiter is in his exaltation rasi and so forms the Makuta Yoga? i have not cast your chart btw......just asking
ila

Dear ila,

Yes I have heard of Mukuta yoga being activated if Jupiter is exalted (or just located) in kendras. But that was only one discussion list and haven't seen anyone else bring it up or apply to any practical examples.

So, I honestly don't know how far Mukuta yoga is supposed to mitigate or cancel Sakata yoga.
http://www.indiadivine.org/content/topi ... hakatyoga/

Best regards,
Violet

[ila]

Dear Violet,
Jupiter while placed in 6th or 8th from moon should be in its own or exaltation rashi....i have not heard about the kendra part of it btw.....Ernest Wilhelm's book offers this yoga as one of the cancellations of sakata yoga and also Marc Boney has extensively used this yoga...In fact for Gwyneth Paltrow this yoga applies strongly and he has made predictions about her oscar winning chances based on this......he has released a kindle book...crowning glory...and there is also a video i think which is in the lova ....he explains it very beautifully....
http://lightonvedicastrology.com/marc-boney-videos
ila

[Orange-Man]

Hello Violet,

His life was extremely difficult in the first 25 years. It was after that that the turnaround happened. So you are right MPY didn’t give its effect all his life. His life started improving from his Venus-Jupiter period.

Venus is with Jupiter in his ascendant Cancer. But it was in the same Venus MD before the Jupiter AD started in which he had problems, I wonder why. Venus as 4th and 11th lord in the lagna with exalted Jupiter should have given a good period in its MD, but it was not so. Venus is a functional malefic for Cancer ascendant though.

Basab

[athreya83]

Dear Basab, Violet

Am trying to summarise the learnings so far

1. If An exalted jupiter is present, Then Sakata Yoga gets cancelled and it is a beneficial yoga that provides good results (My Question : Should it not be based on Whether Jupiter is a functional malefic or not?)

2. Benefics in 6,7, and 8th produce Adhi Yoga, In this case can we expect Sakata yoga to be over ruled by Adhi yoga?

I fully understand that no one yoga can break and make a person, and the extent of a good yoga depends on the strength of the planet in the horoscope.

In case of Huein1 horoscope, I believe the malavya yoga is bhanga because of Saturn aspecting Jupiter (Deva Keralam) what do you think about that? Add to the fact that venus is the lord of the 3rd and 8th house for a pisces ascendant, It will not produce extra ordinary results isnt it?

In the same horoscope, Since Mercury is with Rahu, he is associated with a malefic and by association he is a malefic, Should The Kendra adipathiya dosha be considered or not?

Take the case of my horoscope, While Jupiter Dasa gave me good gains professionally, The Jup-Moon was a disaster personally, the entire dasa was actually, is there any specific reason for this?

thanks for teaching me!

best,
Athreya.

[VioletTwilight]

Dear Violet,
Jupiter while placed in 6th or 8th from moon should be in its own or exaltation rashi....i have not heard about the kendra part of it btw.....Ernest Wilhelm's book offers this yoga as one of the cancellations of sakata yoga and also Marc Boney has extensively used this yoga...In fact for Gwyneth Paltrow this yoga applies strongly and he has made predictions about her oscar winning chances based on this......he has released a kindle book...crowning glory...and there is also a video i think which is in the lova ....he explains it very beautifully....
http://lightonvedicastrology.com/marc-boney-videos
ila

Dear ila,

I think the other discussion list also refers to Ernest Wilhelm. But I am not even convinced that Sakata yoga by itself is so bad that we need to look for mitigating factors.

Best regards,
Violet

[huien1]

To add to the discussion, I got a very good academic push that made me join one of top 5 engineering colleges in my state during Ve-Jup period. May be coz they are causing adhi yoga.

[Orange-Man]

Athyreya,

I don't know about these yogas, so can't comment. I got to realize today only that I have Sakata yoga, too. My Moon is in the 12th house from Jupiter. Moon being in a kendra from the ascendant, maybe it gets cancelled. Moon period was good, and so was Jupiter, compared to my life overall.

Basab

[ila]

Dear Violet,
I was hard pressed for time and so did not actually read the article...sorry for that....
for me i like to examine a life based on a jyotish lens of yogas and dasas....i believe that these are the building blocks and as such reveal the patterns very clearly.....the yogas involving the moon becomes more imp in my opinion because it all begins and ends in the mind ......
ila

[Orange-Man]

Athreya,

I am not sure it is the Sakata yoga getting active for you in the Jupiter-Moon period that gave you stress because the MD and AD lord being in 6-8 axis can always give problems, and it can be so for any planetary combinations in MD and AD. And another thing is during this Moon AD Jupiter had been transiting your natal Moon, which is not a favourable transit and can give difficulties. Moon AD should have been good for you for career, gains, wealth, and overall success, though.

You have mentioned in one of your posts your Rahu-Moon period was bad, too. If you notice, Rahu-Moon in 2-12 relation, which is not very favourable, and transit wise, debiliated Saturn was aspecting your Moon then. Saturn debiliated in the 8th house as 6th lord in transit maybe gave you health issues.

You have also mentioned that in spite of Jupiter being afflicted in your chart, your career was not hampered in its period. No wonder your career didn't get affected. The fundamental principle of astrology is to first see the promise in the birth chart, then see the promise of the dasha, and then, the transits.

If you notice, in your chart 11th lord is in the 10th house, and 10th lord is exalted in the lagna. There is a papa-kartari yoga in your 10th house, which will give some botheration, but not much. So overall your 10th house is very good, and your career has to be good, good dasha or bad dasha. But your house of marriage is not good in your chart. 7th lord being afflicted, and Venus being afflicted. So when Jupiter dasha came, it affected the point, which is weak in the chart. And then, Jupiter is not connected to your 10th house to affect it. It is connected to the 7th house very much to affect its significance in its period.

If we see from the Moon ascendant, Jupiter again becomes 7th lord afflicted. It is 10th lord in the 6th house from there, so it can give some problems in work life, too, but nothing serious, as birth chart itself promises good career.

Basab

[athreya83]

Basab,

Interesting points you have made!

Professionally Jupiter-Moon Period has been Good. Little stress but nice! Exposure, Fame and Money has been descent as well!. May be it was the Natal Jupiter transit that created Havoc and Saturn not being in an advantageous position natally also not good!

The Point you make on the Rahu-Moon is interesting though! Debilitated saturn aspecting the moon hmm.. Good Point. Thank fully Sani Dev didnt trouble me badly during Sade-Sath. Infact I think I got a Job during the Sade-Sath Period! He Did teach me a few good lessons though, Most of my education (under and Post grad, A job) and my Job was during Sade-Sath.

The only common theme of the entire Jupiter period has been Mental Stress!

Thanks once again!

Regards,
Athreya!

[Orange-Man]

Hi Athreya,

Yes, Jupiter-Moon had to be good career-wise, Moon being 11th lord in the 10th house. In Sade-sathi I have noticed there is not much trouble in the first and third phase. It is only when Saturn transits on the sign of the Moon that trouble starts. In 2002-2003 Saturn was on your natal Moon. It should have been stressful for you then.

Your Saturn is good, I feel, being exalted in the 2nd house in your chart. Jupiter is the 4th lord of happiness in the chart, afflicted by Ketu, so it has given you stress. And mental stress is a common thing in today's life. No one can escape it, even with the best of charts and dashas.

Basab

[athreya83]

Basab,

Amen to your words on Stress! Thanks for the lessons!

Regards,
Athreya.

[Orange-Man]

Athreya,

Please don't call it a lesson. I just shared what I know; otherwise, you know much much more than me.

Basab

[VioletTwilight]

Dear Basab, Violet

Am trying to summarise the learnings so far

1. If An exalted jupiter is present, Then Sakata Yoga gets cancelled and it is a beneficial yoga that provides good results (My Question : Should it not be based on Whether Jupiter is a functional malefic or not?)

2. Benefics in 6,7, and 8th produce Adhi Yoga, In this case can we expect Sakata yoga to be over ruled by Adhi yoga?

I fully understand that no one yoga can break and make a person, and the extent of a good yoga depends on the strength of the planet in the horoscope.

In case of Huein1 horoscope, I believe the malavya yoga is bhanga because of Saturn aspecting Jupiter (Deva Keralam) what do you think about that? Add to the fact that venus is the lord of the 3rd and 8th house for a pisces ascendant, It will not produce extra ordinary results isnt it?

In the same horoscope, Since Mercury is with Rahu, he is associated with a malefic and by association he is a malefic, Should The Kendra adipathiya dosha be considered or not?

Take the case of my horoscope, While Jupiter Dasa gave me good gains professionally, The Jup-Moon was a disaster personally, the entire dasa was actually, is there any specific reason for this?

thanks for teaching me!

best,
Athreya.

Dear Athreya,

You have very good questions. Unfortunately though, I don't have answers for all of those. The neat thing about Jyotish (as opposed to Western Astrology) is everything is packaged with yoga definitions and results. However, once you get to working on several charts, there is a realization that these yogas don't work. Not just "some" times but "most" of the times.

There are several explanations by experts why a yoga may or may not have worked out in a specific chart. What I gleaned so far from reading books, forums, and articles by experts is that, yogas also come with their own strengths. Some cancel out each other, while some enhance each other. Now, I haven't found any definite rule for regarding strengths. But one common advice for any yoga is look at it from lagna, Moon lagna and Sun lagna. If possible check also from paka lagna, Atma karaka, and arudha lagna.

If all these seem to hold then there is higher chance that yoga working. It means, self (lagna), mind (moon), soul (sun), intelligence (paka), purpose of this life (AK), and social appearance (Arudha) are all in line.

I have learned a lot from 3 mahapurusha yoga discussion threads in LOVA. It is clear that MPY needs strong Sun and Moon to fructify. MPY is related to kendras and kendras show achievement and leadership, a certain forcefulness. But also a great ability to convince people around them. Sun for leadership (true leadership that takes responsibility in crises -- how Sun never asks for thanks even though he comes to work every single day) and Moon for social service (genuine empathy that makes to really listen and understand what society wants). I haven't seen anyone being as "mahapurusha" or 'true great leader' without having a very strong Sun and Moon.

Please note that the above is only my opinion from what I learned. Learned ones with more expertise may offer more valuable advice and direction.

To be more specific:
1) There is one opinion that Jupiter, the great benefic, can never do any permanent harm. So, functional malefic status of him is overridden. However, there could be instances of "Karako bhava nasta". He can make "too much of a good thing". So, his functional nature *may* not matter.

2) Not always. Depends on the grahas involved. Full adhi yoga involves all three benefics. Sakata yoga involves only one benefic. Depends also on the status of Moon. Cancer lagna can never escape at least some sakata yoga features since Moon is also lagna lord. Having sakata yoga means lagna lord and 9th lord (the greatest luck) are permanently at odds to each other. In other cases, strong lagna and lagna lord can override moon lagna based malefic yogas.

3) If you want to know why the graha gave you some good effects but gave bad effects in another area, look at the karakatwa and lordship of the graha. Apart from that, look for transits on top of dasas. A difficult transit during a dasa may tweak the original results.

4) I don't personally believe in kendradhipathi dosha. I think what SJC lessons say regarding it is valid. kendraadipathya of benefics is like giving charge of police duty to a teacher or student. It will work out poorly if the benefics themselves aren't strong (i.e, be in powerful houses which are kendras). However, if there are strong grahas in the chart, the person has enough courage and "harshness" to fight. That won't be a problem.

BTW, what do you think about Bhadra yoga in your own chart?

Best regards,
Violet

[athreya83]

Dear Violet,

1) Interesting point you make on Jupiter. But i have my doubts on that. If he has lordship of two bad houses he is ill placed, then surely he must give what is written right? "karako Bhava nasham" is an interesting point which is a separate study. May be separate thread for that

If we extend your concept of Sakata yoga being bad for a cancer lagna relative because it involves the lord of lagna and the 9th house, then We can say it must be bad for a pisces native where jupiter is the lord of lagna and 10th house and moon the lord of the 5th house! isnt it?

2) Thanks for the advice on the strength of the Yoga . The amount of goodness that a yoga can confer is 1) Strength of planets who give the yoga 2) The lordshps they have 3) The strength of the luminaries (for MPY especially). "Strength itself is a very big word- I believe so". Everyhoroscope has its own combination of Yogas and Ava-yogas and the relative strength of the horoscope and results will be a function of the strength of each of them, Their cancellations and or Bhanga.

3) I have seen a very classic case of Adhi Yoga, mercury Venus and Jupiter in the 5th house , Capricorn lagan, Moon in scorpio debilitated. Lord of the 7th debilitated in the 11th aspected by three benefics including a venus in its own house. Guess where all his comforts came from - Children. two of this children went abroad and his later life was full of riches and comforts while his initial life was tough. the last half of his Venus dasa, and his moon dasa were superb. His wife was a saint in character, literally. She stood by him during trouble and was an extraordinary person. Now should i put this down to Adhi yoga or benefics in the 5th house from Lagna because he got his comforts from children or a combination of both? Irony is enter Moon dasa, and his wife passed away! One funny thing for all Jupiter gave, As lord of the 3rd and 12th House, his eldest soon was a royal pain in the butt for him, While the other two kids,son and daughter were exactly the opposite!

4) I have my own doubts about Bhadra Yoga in my chart, The reason is Mercury is Debilitated in Navamsa. Since i dont know the exact time, I cant guess if it has a jupiter aspect on it in D-9 (Do we use aspects in D-9 another Question that iam not clear?). He does have a descent Shadbala though (9.36 rupas as per Jhora). Going by your dictum, The luminaries are good (Sun lord of the 12th in 12th and moon in 10th).Since i dont know the exact time, I dont know if I got my job in Mer AD.I came out of post graduation having 3 jobs and having a choice to pick what I want and in 2 years got a huge hikes in my salary. But professionally I have no qualms. I love what am doing, Surprisingly people Say Bhadra yoga Native have good business acumen, But my love is for Science (Classical Physics, Physical chemistry) and math. I am an engineer by profession. Should i put that as to having a strong 10th house or Bhadra yoga? In Job I demand perfection and will say things on the face. personally am a very different person, full of warmth. I also remember that a lot of these traits started to magnify end of PG/Start of my Job. Infact I studied more (literally as in books) during my 1st year in Job than my college days!

[VioletTwilight]

Dear Violet,

1) Interesting point you make on Jupiter. But i have my doubts on that. If he has lordship of two bad houses he is ill placed, then surely he must give what is written right? "karako Bhava nasham" is an interesting point which is a separate study. May be separate thread for that

If we extend your concept of Sakata yoga being bad for a cancer lagna relative because it involves the lord of lagna and the 9th house, then We can say it must be bad for a pisces native where jupiter is the lord of lagna and 10th house and moon the lord of the 5th house! isnt it?
...............

Dear Athreya,

1) Jupiter can do harm. But I don't think he is limited to doing only harm because he is functional malefic.
May be I have resistance to the idea that there are any "bad" houses. 3-6-8-12 get bad rep. But many people want to live in foreign places (12), have no problem if they got inheritance or longevity (8), become doctors or lawyers (6), or business men or managers (3).

I don't think Sakata yoga is that bad for Pisces native. Because Moon lagna, and Paka lagna will be different. In case of Cancer, Moon lagna and Paka lagna are same. In case of Pisces, the paka lagna is looking from Jupiter to Moon, and Moon lagna is looking from Moon to Jupiter. So, the native gets both points of view and have a choice to act through their lagna lord or Moon lagna.

Also, Moon is the most changeable graha and is influenced by every tiny association, be it nakshatra, rasi, or dristi. Jupiter has much more stability and don't need as much support as Moon requires to throw around his weight (pun intended).


3) Come on, why blame Jupiter for eldest born of a Capricorn lagna? What has Jupiter got to do with it when it has to be Mercury or Venus to blame? (5th is first born but can reverse and 9th will be first born for even lagnas - I would definitely blame Mer was first born). Also, Venus is karaka for wife. That''s a happy Venus in 5th with two other benefics. Why won't he have a good wife? (Although, one should look at Navamsa 7th house to know exactly about wife in later half of life). You see, one can have "bad" married life with "good" spouse as this is the case.

The way I see it, we see both from Lagna and Moon lagna (depending on where is Saturn - LL). From lagna, it is great 5th house and children are prosperous. From Moon, 7th house is strong and that house provided support to Moon by providing "moral" support. But Moon itself is debilitated (and I am not sure where Mars is for neecha banga), and so, the person suffered mental strain in his life.

His children could still have given him "happiness" without giving him any riches or comforts, if Moon and 5th from Moon were doing good. In this case, 5th lord from Moon is actually doing good.
There are many instances where children are rich and happy but parents are still unhappy since they are so far away in foreign lands.

Anyway, it is not 'classic' definition of Adhi yoga since they are not spread between 6,7 and 8 houses.

Best regards,
Violet

[Crystalpages]

Hi Violet,

Without getting embroiled in the debate/debates going on, the thought arises and I share and then withdraw back to the wall, peacefully My sense is that the rather broad and somewhat mind-boggling (in its resplendent richness aka technical armamentarium) array of possibilities, Jyotish framework has a holographic structure. In this, one could use a reasonable fragment and come out with meaningful answers and interpretation. In other words, even if the cake is eaten in portions, it tastes delicious and is ful-filling! One could ambitiously eat the whole cake but that could lead to indigestion and a stomach-ache! I say Jyotish, but perhaps western astrology too has the same holographic framework. Only those who have eaten THAT cake would be able to tell.

Kind regards,

Rohiniranjan

[athreya83]

Dear Violet,

I believe every house in a chart has its purpose. Agree with you on the 6-8-12 houses. I see your point on the moon, that unlike Jupiter moon needs much more support.

with Regards to the Adhi Yoga chart i mentioned, I looked at the fact that jupiter is a bigger functional malefic for a capricorn native than Mercury. That is the angle i thought from. yes you are right, This is not a Adhi Yoga spread in all three houses but just in the 7th house. It is just that i have seen and known him much more. It is easy in the learning phase to pick a person's horoscope and analyse and try to find why it worked. You are right about the fact that Parents can be unhappy if Kids are abroad. But in his case , he was very comfortable, encouraging them to spead their wings and fly. \

Grounds me back to the lesson that there is much more to a horoscope than a yoga. Everyday you see the same horoscope you learn something

The best thing is to brainstorm like this and take in mutiple points of view and see which fits well. Once we have something that fits well, check again and apply to another horoscope and see if that theory is correct. Horoscope is something where you have to see both the trees and the forest .

BTW.. selfishly asking what do you think of the Bhadra yoga in my chart

[VioletTwilight]

Hi Violet,

Without getting embroiled in the debate/debates going on, the thought arises and I share and then withdraw back to the wall, peacefully My sense is that the rather broad and somewhat mind-boggling (in its resplendent richness aka technical armamentarium) array of possibilities, Jyotish framework has a holographic structure. In this, one could use a reasonable fragment and come out with meaningful answers and interpretation. In other words, even if the cake is eaten in portions, it tastes delicious and is ful-filling! One could ambitiously eat the whole cake but that could lead to indigestion and a stomach-ache! I say Jyotish, but perhaps western astrology too has the same holographic framework. Only those who have eaten THAT cake would be able to tell.

Kind regards,

Rohiniranjan

Dear Rohiniranjan,

I agree with you here. Like any complex subject, one can never fully "digest" everything. We all find our niche based on our vasanas (or size of our tummies), so to speak.

I focused on Jyotish after some time in Western. Some parts of Western astrology make sense to me but I am dissatisfied about parts of it (like unequal houses with 12th house having a third of real estate for someone I know). Some ideas are same in both (like exaltations) but some are at odds like squares in Western are "tension" (yet friends in square are supposed to be "good") while kendras in Jyotish are "support". I think nakshatras, yogas and divisionals are much more developed in Jyotish than chart formations like kite, bucket, grand cross or grand trine in Western. But western focus on degrees of planets are much more precise for conjunctions and aspect effects (although higher divisionals get to this from a different direction). And then there are Rahu, Ketu compared to Uranus, Neptune, Pluto (even if the poor guy lost planet status).

Sorry if I came across as praising one or dismissing other. For me, yogas are an interesting difference between the two which made Jyotish more attractive to me.

Best regards,
Violet

[VioletTwilight]

Dear Athreya,

I think your Mercury is good being exalted in lagna with digbala. But I am not sure if you will have MPY.
Sun is own house and vargottama. However, it is 12th from lagna and LL which is the marana karaka sthana for Sun. This means, Sun can only help if you are in foreign lands, or your father - although being strong himself- won't be able to help and support your leadership.
Moon is in enemy's house and deb. in D9 and surrounded by malefics. That Moon is a problem. Moon is also D9 lagna lord and as such, you could come across very unemotional and manipulative in private relationships.

Mer may be deb in D9 but is in exchange in Jupiter. That is a mitigation of debility due to mutual sambandha. Me loves Rahu and so Me having aspect from Rahu isn't such a bad thing. However, Rahu is also in his marana karaka sthana (9th house in D1). So, helping Me with regard to any matter feels very difficult to any person in authority.

My conclusion is, despite strong Me with resources and motivation, all achievement has to happen from self rather than due to help from anyone who you would expect help from or persons of authority. While you do have opportunities for resources, they may not come to you in time of need, and you may not be able to manage them properly due to emotional distractions.

Lagna degree is also far away from Me and Me barely misses first house in bhava chart. So, your strong Me characteristics do not shine in society (even though you possess them). Then, there is deb. Mars as AK and exalted Saturn in 2nd. Looks to me that you have some hard lessons in store for this life time and the work is all about self-improvement rather than burn for social service which accompanies MPY.

Best regards,
Violet

[athreya83]

Dear Violet,

Thanks for the reading! Going by the way Jupiter MD has gone, I think you are right. One thing to I have to accept is Mercury has given me a fantastic career and a job I love. I cant deny the fact I have been consistently pushed up not gradually but very fastly. But Your words on emotional distraction is so true! The fact that am going to have the God of lessons Shani Dev MD next , I better be ready . There is always Her by my side

[VioletTwilight]

Dear Violet,

Thanks for the reading! Going by the way Jupiter MD has gone, I think you are right. One thing to I have to accept is Mercury has given me a fantastic career and a job I love. I cant deny the fact I have been consistently pushed up not gradually but very fastly. But Your words on emotional distraction is so true! The fact that am going to have the God of lessons Shani Dev MD next , I better be ready . There is always Her by my side

Dear Athreya,

I was only looking at the chart from the point of view of MPY and its results. Even if MPY won't be active, you have a strong chart and will have excellent success in this life, imho. In this era, having some exalted and some deb. planets is good for rise in life. Exalted ones give smooth ride and talents while deb. ones add some burn and motivation to do better instead being content with what one has.

Best regards,
Violet