Dear Sir,
I couldn't read the complete posts for time limitations but if my guess is correct you are not sure how different Ayanamsa are working with life events.
The short answer is: By applying Rashi chart rules to Vargas anything can be proved in Astrology.
Long answer:
Aspects, houses, yogas apply only in Rashi. All Vargas exist within the Rashi chart because they are only mathematical divisions of it. There is no other chart (representation of the zodiac). Vargas are not charts, they are just pin pointing planetary position in the zodiac. So for e.g. if Saturn is in Gemini in Aries Navamsa it just means Saturn is going through Punarvasu nakshatra first pad. It doesn't mean that in Navamsa its in Nth house and aspecting somewhere. It only means that Saturn going through Punarvasu pad 1 (i.e. Gemini Rashi and Aries Navamsa) gives particular results for respective ascendants every single time without exception (now these results may be diluted or amplified by other planets etc but they will be there in some form).
You must have found many Astrologers using all Rashi chart rules and applying them in Vargas yet there is no mention of it in any classical (B.C) texts. In fact the way classical texts define aspects, houses they are impossible to apply outside Rashi. It is just misunderstanding that came in 250 years ago and is now in mainstream. Your research is pointing to this result that using Rashi chart rules in Vargas anything is provable even after changing Ayanamsas ! Similarly (as you will see on online forums) and from other Internet acharayas they will be using all rules in all cases, mixing various systems and basically "Proving away anything". The ones who are good are basically intuitive and can tell the result probably by looking in a crystal ball too. So for them the method doesn't really matter although with practicing the same method over a life time they are able to generate intuition (by concentrating on their methods). At that point its not really as much of a technical analysis than an intuitive realization.
When there are 9 planets with many aspects, 12 houses, 12 signs, lordships, yogas and innumerable planetary characteristics and only a handful of life events (marriage, education, job, child birth, money, health and some more) how can one not fit a life event into a birth chart once these concepts are extended to 16 Vargas? It is close to impossible not to prove any event in any chart just by looking at available permutations of the above (planets, houses etc in Rashi and Vargas). As you are researching I suggest to research on this end too.
Also going above Trimsamsa is highly Ayanamsa specific and is not suggested unless you are a researcher of Ayanamsas.
Rathore
An Experiment With Ayanamsas w/ Insights into D-60
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READ Forum-Wide Rules and Guidelines NOTICE: OFFENSIVE POSTS WILL BE DELETED, AND OFFENDERS WILL HAVE ALL POSTS MODERATED.
Dear Sreejit ji,
Please see:
http://www.lightonvedicastrology.com/ph ... =6&t=21462
and
http://lightonvedicastrology.com/phpBB3 ... =6&t=13964
Rathore
Please see:
http://www.lightonvedicastrology.com/ph ... =6&t=21462
and
http://lightonvedicastrology.com/phpBB3 ... =6&t=13964
Rathore
Wildezword ji,
My thoughts:
1. It will be nice if you can also state what was the definition of year that you used and whether it was the same for all ayanamshas
2. Birth Time Rectification has to be done for each ayanamsha separately and then the results compared.
3. It will also be important to use same assumptions in respect of other choices that affect the planetary positions (e.g., True nodes vs Mean nodes, Geocentric vs topocentric)
CRS
My thoughts:
1. It will be nice if you can also state what was the definition of year that you used and whether it was the same for all ayanamshas
2. Birth Time Rectification has to be done for each ayanamsha separately and then the results compared.
3. It will also be important to use same assumptions in respect of other choices that affect the planetary positions (e.g., True nodes vs Mean nodes, Geocentric vs topocentric)
CRS
LOVACRS
-
satishdesh
- Registered User
- Posts: 49
- Joined: 07 May 2012
Namaste rathoreji
Will you please give me link for original thread of wildezword ?
Regards
satish
Will you please give me link for original thread of wildezword ?
Regards
satish
Satish ji,
The original poster seems to have removed his post. Essentially, he used several Ayanamsas and was able to justify his life events with each of them. This was accomplished by using D charts same as Rashi. He even added/subtracted 100 degrees to Lahiri and was still able to justify his life events. And he used Vimshottri Dasha with each Ayanamsa. He then (very optimistically) leaned towards the conclusion that there is mathematical harmony built into Astrology which is why he was able to do so (justify all his life events). I expressed that its not "mathematical harmony" but backward rationalization which always works when juggling with absurd D-charts & hence fitting few life events to too many variables (one can just about prove anything with this technique). If you look at most of the Internet Astrology (and even otherwise), its the case now a days. One can justify just about anything for just about any chart.
So here again I include a verse from BPHS for the readers:
Rathore
The original poster seems to have removed his post. Essentially, he used several Ayanamsas and was able to justify his life events with each of them. This was accomplished by using D charts same as Rashi. He even added/subtracted 100 degrees to Lahiri and was still able to justify his life events. And he used Vimshottri Dasha with each Ayanamsa. He then (very optimistically) leaned towards the conclusion that there is mathematical harmony built into Astrology which is why he was able to do so (justify all his life events). I expressed that its not "mathematical harmony" but backward rationalization which always works when juggling with absurd D-charts & hence fitting few life events to too many variables (one can just about prove anything with this technique). If you look at most of the Internet Astrology (and even otherwise), its the case now a days. One can justify just about anything for just about any chart.
So here again I include a verse from BPHS for the readers:
Rathore
-
EngagedMoon
- Registered User
- Posts: 21
- Joined: 25 Apr 2012
[quote="rathore"]Dear Sir,
I couldn't read the complete posts for time limitations but if my guess is correct you are not sure how different Ayanamsa are working with life events.
The short answer is: By applying Rashi chart rules to Vargas anything can be proved in Astrology.
Long answer:
Aspects, houses, yogas apply only in Rashi. All Vargas exist within the Rashi chart because they are only mathematical divisions of it. There is no other chart (representation of the zodiac). Vargas are not charts, they are just pin pointing planetary position in the zodiac. So for e.g. if Saturn is in Gemini in Aries Navamsa it just means Saturn is going through Punarvasu nakshatra first pad. It doesn't mean that in Navamsa its in Nth house and aspecting somewhere. It only means that Saturn going through Punarvasu pad 1 (i.e. Gemini Rashi and Aries Navamsa) gives particular results for respective ascendants every single time without exception (now these results may be diluted or amplified by other planets etc but they will be there in some form).
You must have found many Astrologers using all Rashi chart rules and applying them in Vargas yet there is no mention of it in any classical (B.C) texts. In fact the way classical texts define aspects, houses they are impossible to apply outside Rashi. It is just misunderstanding that came in 250 years ago and is now in mainstream. Your research is pointing to this result that using Rashi chart rules in Vargas anything is provable even after changing Ayanamsas ! Similarly (as you will see on online forums) and from other Internet acharayas they will be using all rules in all cases, mixing various systems and basically "Proving away anything". The ones who are good are basically intuitive and can tell the result probably by looking in a crystal ball too. So for them the method doesn't really matter although with practicing the same method over a life time they are able to generate intuition (by concentrating on their methods). At that point its not really as much of a technical analysis than an intuitive realization.
When there are 9 planets with many aspects, 12 houses, 12 signs, lordships, yogas and innumerable planetary characteristics and only a handful of life events (marriage, education, job, child birth, money, health and some more) how can one not fit a life event into a birth chart once these concepts are extended to 16 Vargas? It is close to impossible not to prove any event in any chart just by looking at available permutations of the above (planets, houses etc in Rashi and Vargas). As you are researching I suggest to research on this end too.
Also going above Trimsamsa is highly Ayanamsa specific and is not suggested unless you are a researcher of Ayanamsas.
Rathore[/quote]
Rathore, Vargas chart are independent in their standings even when they appear to be dependent to the rashi chart. As with everything in this universe, achieving neutrality is the goal. All aspects, houses and yogas do work in varga charts but not for material purpose as pointed out in Rashi chart. The events materialising is totally another chapter as Varga charts are there to show us the specific traits of a person. We living in Kali yuga wanting everything to materialize thus we reflect it back to Rashi chart to find points of materialization thus ignoring anything which doesn't materialize in varga charts. Also, the BHPS done by the Great Sage Parashara, he is not human like us. His knowledge are not based on human intellect but pure devotion to Lord Narayana. He authored Vishnu Purana need I to say more? He is the grandson of Sage Vashista which was the Guru for Lord Rama himself. The version of BHPS that written by Sage Parashara is for ignorant kali yuga astrologers who believe they are master of everything lord of none. Vedic Astrology cannot be understood through maths, intellect, experience or research. Yes you can to a certain extend connect two dots to summarize an event but the more you do that the more you go the wrong path as with everything in Kali Yuga because its a illusive reality without a cause. It can only be understood by devotion to Lord Narayana who is the manifestation of time and energy itself. Vedic astrology need be understood using subconscious mind and soul awareness wisdom that been cultivated through meditation, satvik lifestyle, satvik food and pure devotion. Lord Krishna says he himself is the Nakchatra in Vishnu Sahasranama. While I hear a lot of talk about vedic astrology mathematical concepts here, I don't hear anyone speaking about Krishna which is the very energy of the time and its planetary manifestation. Since, I'm new here I don't think they will approve this post since its contradicting your views but if they do, then I hope you and everyone here have a deep thought about what I've said above. I don't mean to argue, insult, or question your understanding. I just would like to express the truth. Thank you very much for allowing me to express it here. I deeply appreciate it.
I couldn't read the complete posts for time limitations but if my guess is correct you are not sure how different Ayanamsa are working with life events.
The short answer is: By applying Rashi chart rules to Vargas anything can be proved in Astrology.
Long answer:
Aspects, houses, yogas apply only in Rashi. All Vargas exist within the Rashi chart because they are only mathematical divisions of it. There is no other chart (representation of the zodiac). Vargas are not charts, they are just pin pointing planetary position in the zodiac. So for e.g. if Saturn is in Gemini in Aries Navamsa it just means Saturn is going through Punarvasu nakshatra first pad. It doesn't mean that in Navamsa its in Nth house and aspecting somewhere. It only means that Saturn going through Punarvasu pad 1 (i.e. Gemini Rashi and Aries Navamsa) gives particular results for respective ascendants every single time without exception (now these results may be diluted or amplified by other planets etc but they will be there in some form).
You must have found many Astrologers using all Rashi chart rules and applying them in Vargas yet there is no mention of it in any classical (B.C) texts. In fact the way classical texts define aspects, houses they are impossible to apply outside Rashi. It is just misunderstanding that came in 250 years ago and is now in mainstream. Your research is pointing to this result that using Rashi chart rules in Vargas anything is provable even after changing Ayanamsas ! Similarly (as you will see on online forums) and from other Internet acharayas they will be using all rules in all cases, mixing various systems and basically "Proving away anything". The ones who are good are basically intuitive and can tell the result probably by looking in a crystal ball too. So for them the method doesn't really matter although with practicing the same method over a life time they are able to generate intuition (by concentrating on their methods). At that point its not really as much of a technical analysis than an intuitive realization.
When there are 9 planets with many aspects, 12 houses, 12 signs, lordships, yogas and innumerable planetary characteristics and only a handful of life events (marriage, education, job, child birth, money, health and some more) how can one not fit a life event into a birth chart once these concepts are extended to 16 Vargas? It is close to impossible not to prove any event in any chart just by looking at available permutations of the above (planets, houses etc in Rashi and Vargas). As you are researching I suggest to research on this end too.
Also going above Trimsamsa is highly Ayanamsa specific and is not suggested unless you are a researcher of Ayanamsas.
Rathore[/quote]
Rathore, Vargas chart are independent in their standings even when they appear to be dependent to the rashi chart. As with everything in this universe, achieving neutrality is the goal. All aspects, houses and yogas do work in varga charts but not for material purpose as pointed out in Rashi chart. The events materialising is totally another chapter as Varga charts are there to show us the specific traits of a person. We living in Kali yuga wanting everything to materialize thus we reflect it back to Rashi chart to find points of materialization thus ignoring anything which doesn't materialize in varga charts. Also, the BHPS done by the Great Sage Parashara, he is not human like us. His knowledge are not based on human intellect but pure devotion to Lord Narayana. He authored Vishnu Purana need I to say more? He is the grandson of Sage Vashista which was the Guru for Lord Rama himself. The version of BHPS that written by Sage Parashara is for ignorant kali yuga astrologers who believe they are master of everything lord of none. Vedic Astrology cannot be understood through maths, intellect, experience or research. Yes you can to a certain extend connect two dots to summarize an event but the more you do that the more you go the wrong path as with everything in Kali Yuga because its a illusive reality without a cause. It can only be understood by devotion to Lord Narayana who is the manifestation of time and energy itself. Vedic astrology need be understood using subconscious mind and soul awareness wisdom that been cultivated through meditation, satvik lifestyle, satvik food and pure devotion. Lord Krishna says he himself is the Nakchatra in Vishnu Sahasranama. While I hear a lot of talk about vedic astrology mathematical concepts here, I don't hear anyone speaking about Krishna which is the very energy of the time and its planetary manifestation. Since, I'm new here I don't think they will approve this post since its contradicting your views but if they do, then I hope you and everyone here have a deep thought about what I've said above. I don't mean to argue, insult, or question your understanding. I just would like to express the truth. Thank you very much for allowing me to express it here. I deeply appreciate it.
EngagedMoon ji,
Thank you for writing. Please refrain on using a general universal overall abstract concept to fit into specifics of chart reading for which well defined methods are given by the Sages. This way, you will be abe to justify any opinion.
This thread is about the technicality given in the texts and not the Universal goal, what we want in Kaliyug, Sages being human, their devotion to the Lord, lineage etc. This thread is working with what is available in texts but still if its assumed that Jyotish cannot be understood by Math, intellect etc. then how do you conclude using independent Varga charts? Based on Universal goal of neutrality? How do you conclude Yogas work in Vargas at a "non material" level? Based on Parashara's devotion to the Lord? How do you know BPHS version now is written for Kaliyug Astrologers only? Because of illusive reality without a cause in Kaliyug? I hope you are not mixing abstract concepts with concrete methods, or you will be in the territory of "explaining away anything" which is (sadly) what Astrology has become.
Here, no one is speaking about the Lord probably because it is a given at all times, you could start. Parashara is a later day Sage (not the first) to work with Astrology. Many traditional Astrologers don't even care for Parashara's work.
To keep in mind: When looking at the Rashi chart, you are looking at all the Vargas too. They are right there.. so there is no independent Varga "chart", it is all happening within the Rashi chart. Nothing can materialize (material/spiritual results) from a so called independent "Varga" chart because they are not "independent" to begin with. But should you like to use it that way, good luck with that.
In retrospect if you like please go to "Divisional charts" section for topic "Vargas are NOT to be read as Rashi".
Rathore
Thank you for writing. Please refrain on using a general universal overall abstract concept to fit into specifics of chart reading for which well defined methods are given by the Sages. This way, you will be abe to justify any opinion.
This thread is about the technicality given in the texts and not the Universal goal, what we want in Kaliyug, Sages being human, their devotion to the Lord, lineage etc. This thread is working with what is available in texts but still if its assumed that Jyotish cannot be understood by Math, intellect etc. then how do you conclude using independent Varga charts? Based on Universal goal of neutrality? How do you conclude Yogas work in Vargas at a "non material" level? Based on Parashara's devotion to the Lord? How do you know BPHS version now is written for Kaliyug Astrologers only? Because of illusive reality without a cause in Kaliyug? I hope you are not mixing abstract concepts with concrete methods, or you will be in the territory of "explaining away anything" which is (sadly) what Astrology has become.
Here, no one is speaking about the Lord probably because it is a given at all times, you could start. Parashara is a later day Sage (not the first) to work with Astrology. Many traditional Astrologers don't even care for Parashara's work.
To keep in mind: When looking at the Rashi chart, you are looking at all the Vargas too. They are right there.. so there is no independent Varga "chart", it is all happening within the Rashi chart. Nothing can materialize (material/spiritual results) from a so called independent "Varga" chart because they are not "independent" to begin with. But should you like to use it that way, good luck with that.
In retrospect if you like please go to "Divisional charts" section for topic "Vargas are NOT to be read as Rashi".
Rathore
-
EngagedMoon
- Registered User
- Posts: 21
- Joined: 25 Apr 2012
Sages are not human like us. People find it hard to call them aliens, thus over the pass thousands of years they tried to justify their humanly conduct and explain us to believe the half boiled knowledge that they are humans. The thread focus on what is available, that's not true a lot of things is available once you shun away your intellect and focus on wisdom within you. All the answers to the question you're searching is within you and that the text is compiled to guide you to that path not to give you answer in the text itself.
Varga charts are independent in their own existence. Its like time awareness, 10 minutes might be the same for you and me in mathematical form but the concious awareness of 10 minutes might differ greatly. Ancient seers meditate for thousands of years in their conscious awareness but in material mathematical reality they just meditated for few hours. Maths is just a point of material and spiritual meet ups to show there is more towards a divisions then your intellect, memory sense organs and mind can interpret.
Sage Parashara is a manifestation of Krishna himself as with all of us. Even this communication between me and you is not for both of us, its for everyone who have the karma to look at this and interpret it to think it over. No doubt a bunch of people here will think I'm stupid, drunk or maybe down right ignorant but that doesn't matter as long the information reaches their mind it have the altering point similar to reciting Krishna's name. Even if you don't believe in him as much as I do just by reciting Krishna he will look at you, when he looks at you all your ignorance will gradually shed away and one fine day when you read this thread again, you'll realize how insignificant it is.
Again don't use words loosely, try to think deeply on a word be sanskrit or english before using it. What is Yoga? Yoga means Union. Krishna himself is the every energy of this union. Please read Gita, Bhagavatam, and understand the meaning of Sahasranama before going forward trying to dissect the varga charts. There is no such thing as bad yogas and good yogas, both yogas have the capacity to work alternatively, its the way we understand it. If you use sense organs and mind to interpret it via intellect then everything you see is illusions and divisions of polar opposites. Good bad, Strong Weak, Bright Dark and so on. You need to cultivate soul awareness to understand it as one, as everything in this universe work to achieve that union of oneness with Krishna which is "YOGA"
Varga charts are independent in their own existence. Its like time awareness, 10 minutes might be the same for you and me in mathematical form but the concious awareness of 10 minutes might differ greatly. Ancient seers meditate for thousands of years in their conscious awareness but in material mathematical reality they just meditated for few hours. Maths is just a point of material and spiritual meet ups to show there is more towards a divisions then your intellect, memory sense organs and mind can interpret.
Sage Parashara is a manifestation of Krishna himself as with all of us. Even this communication between me and you is not for both of us, its for everyone who have the karma to look at this and interpret it to think it over. No doubt a bunch of people here will think I'm stupid, drunk or maybe down right ignorant but that doesn't matter as long the information reaches their mind it have the altering point similar to reciting Krishna's name. Even if you don't believe in him as much as I do just by reciting Krishna he will look at you, when he looks at you all your ignorance will gradually shed away and one fine day when you read this thread again, you'll realize how insignificant it is.
Again don't use words loosely, try to think deeply on a word be sanskrit or english before using it. What is Yoga? Yoga means Union. Krishna himself is the every energy of this union. Please read Gita, Bhagavatam, and understand the meaning of Sahasranama before going forward trying to dissect the varga charts. There is no such thing as bad yogas and good yogas, both yogas have the capacity to work alternatively, its the way we understand it. If you use sense organs and mind to interpret it via intellect then everything you see is illusions and divisions of polar opposites. Good bad, Strong Weak, Bright Dark and so on. You need to cultivate soul awareness to understand it as one, as everything in this universe work to achieve that union of oneness with Krishna which is "YOGA"
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EngagedMoon
- Registered User
- Posts: 21
- Joined: 25 Apr 2012
BPHS is written to cultivate your Vairagya not for you to understand it as what it is. The very question asking me how I know itself explains how much this conversation have deluded you. Open any satvik purana and read at least 10 to 20 pages you'll understand everything about Krishna ParaBrahman is oneness. BPHS is written by grandson of the Greatest ever soul who champions Oneness with Bhagavan Krishna in its extreme form Sage Vasistha. Even reciting his name makes Rama's energy to surround your astral body thereby inviting Hanuman to be there too. BPHS is filled with divisions in every form written for inciting mental thoughts on meat eating, onion garlic eating, alcohol drinking, egg eating, intellect loving, kali yuga people and few people with satvik tendencies. These people with satvik tendencies will instantly see the meaning BPHS like the way Kali yuga people can't see it as they rely on the mathematical meeting point of manifestation of the universe which is what we call Bhavas, nakchatras and its degrees.
"I hope you are not mixing abstract concepts with concrete methods, or you will be in the territory of "explaining away anything" which is (sadly) what Astrology has become""
Again, don't use words loosely. Abstracts is what you think but can't be explained in material life. Abstract means "existing in thought or as an idea but not having a physical or concrete existence." Its not abstract and I will explain why after this but lets assume it your way. Its abstract then what is abstract? mental thoughts which doesn't agree with material creation. Mental thoughts are fuelled by your brain, mind and intellect which a part of your body. Your body needs food and water to sustain that thoughts then again food comes from earth. Where does earth comes from? It all comes from Krishna. The very food you consume shows what kind of mental stimulation you have, regardless what ever markup of mathematical point which is vedic astrology pre disposition that you're born with. This foods will eventually becoming yourself by being your body, your thoughts and your energy in every form be it physical or mental. So this very abstract is an energy from Krishna goes back to Krishna.
Now lets see what is concrete existence. Concrete existence is all that your mind and senses can perceive. Your mind and senses are organs of limited capabilities and relies almost entirely on the types of food you supply it with. Eating satvik food gives your satvik mind, even if the predisposition of nakchatra that you inherited is greatly tamasic, the same thing applies when you have very satvik prediposition and you eat a lot of tamasic food, your thoughts while based on satvik aspect of life but you'll always influence to express itself in range of tamasic activities or ways. You can see this a lot in powerful, famous and very influential people who wants to do good things but then always end up doing the exact opposite to it. This is because the very fuel for the mind decides what is the level of understanding a persons mind and sense organs can harness. So your mental concrete existence is a level where you can fathom materialism to a level say another person due to the very food you eat. So Mind and sense organs is not a independent elemental creation, they rely on food and they are controlled by the soul. Due to excessive energies which works against satvik energy one will not able to realize the soul energy in them thus believing their material mathematical limited points as life experience. I can write more about this but I don't want you and others take too long time to understand this fact.
"I hope you are not mixing abstract concepts with concrete methods, or you will be in the territory of "explaining away anything" which is (sadly) what Astrology has become""
Again, don't use words loosely. Abstracts is what you think but can't be explained in material life. Abstract means "existing in thought or as an idea but not having a physical or concrete existence." Its not abstract and I will explain why after this but lets assume it your way. Its abstract then what is abstract? mental thoughts which doesn't agree with material creation. Mental thoughts are fuelled by your brain, mind and intellect which a part of your body. Your body needs food and water to sustain that thoughts then again food comes from earth. Where does earth comes from? It all comes from Krishna. The very food you consume shows what kind of mental stimulation you have, regardless what ever markup of mathematical point which is vedic astrology pre disposition that you're born with. This foods will eventually becoming yourself by being your body, your thoughts and your energy in every form be it physical or mental. So this very abstract is an energy from Krishna goes back to Krishna.
Now lets see what is concrete existence. Concrete existence is all that your mind and senses can perceive. Your mind and senses are organs of limited capabilities and relies almost entirely on the types of food you supply it with. Eating satvik food gives your satvik mind, even if the predisposition of nakchatra that you inherited is greatly tamasic, the same thing applies when you have very satvik prediposition and you eat a lot of tamasic food, your thoughts while based on satvik aspect of life but you'll always influence to express itself in range of tamasic activities or ways. You can see this a lot in powerful, famous and very influential people who wants to do good things but then always end up doing the exact opposite to it. This is because the very fuel for the mind decides what is the level of understanding a persons mind and sense organs can harness. So your mental concrete existence is a level where you can fathom materialism to a level say another person due to the very food you eat. So Mind and sense organs is not a independent elemental creation, they rely on food and they are controlled by the soul. Due to excessive energies which works against satvik energy one will not able to realize the soul energy in them thus believing their material mathematical limited points as life experience. I can write more about this but I don't want you and others take too long time to understand this fact.
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EngagedMoon
- Registered User
- Posts: 21
- Joined: 25 Apr 2012
Here, no one is speaking about the Lord probably because it is a given at all times, you could start. Parashara is a later day Sage (not the first) to work with Astrology. Many traditional Astrologers don't even care for Parashara's work.
[b]To keep in mind:[/b] When looking at the Rashi chart, you are looking at all the Vargas too. They are right there.. so there is no independent Varga "chart", it is all happening within the Rashi chart. Nothing can materialize (material/spiritual results) from a so called independent "Varga" chart because they are not "independent" to begin with. But should you like to use it that way, good luck with that.
In retrospect if you like please go to "Divisional charts" section for topic "Vargas are NOT to be read as Rashi".
Now this is where I'll usually feel the most touched and I will tell you why. Krishna exist in the every energy, in the fingers you take to type to reply this thread, the very concious understand of your mental thoughts to interpret this message. Everything you see is Krishna and can never work without him not being in it and outside of it. Thus we are forever in him and out of him. We are forever attached to him. So speaking about a teddy bear or vedic astrology is all the same when you trace back its existence and its effect on your mind. Its like water, no matter what type of water you drink, the taste of the water and feel of it might differ greatly but its concious awareness to your body will always be the same regardless if its a poison or honey. So saying we are not talking about lord is very wrong statement. We are talking about him everyday with or without our mind knowing about it. Satvik foods makes our mind to realize it. Rajasic food makes our mind to believe the illusive nature of it, Tamasic food makes our mind to altogether shut that awareness. Your camera is as good as the lens you have similarly, your mind is as good as the food you consume and lifestyle you choose to live.
One of Krishna's name is the most ancient person as nobody pre-dates him. He is the first and the last, he is everything. Thus Sage Parashara, Sage Brihgu, Sage Vasistha, Sage Vishvamitra Sage Durvasa and all the hundreds of thousands of sages might be different in their manifestation but they are the same reality. Their manifestation required to enlighten different forms of awareness which exist in humanity in this kali age of arguments and stupidity. This same reality is what we call ParaBrahman or Krishna.
[b]To keep in mind:[/b] When looking at the Rashi chart, you are looking at all the Vargas too. They are right there.. so there is no independent Varga "chart", it is all happening within the Rashi chart. Nothing can materialize (material/spiritual results) from a so called independent "Varga" chart because they are not "independent" to begin with. But should you like to use it that way, good luck with that.
In retrospect if you like please go to "Divisional charts" section for topic "Vargas are NOT to be read as Rashi".
Now this is where I'll usually feel the most touched and I will tell you why. Krishna exist in the every energy, in the fingers you take to type to reply this thread, the very concious understand of your mental thoughts to interpret this message. Everything you see is Krishna and can never work without him not being in it and outside of it. Thus we are forever in him and out of him. We are forever attached to him. So speaking about a teddy bear or vedic astrology is all the same when you trace back its existence and its effect on your mind. Its like water, no matter what type of water you drink, the taste of the water and feel of it might differ greatly but its concious awareness to your body will always be the same regardless if its a poison or honey. So saying we are not talking about lord is very wrong statement. We are talking about him everyday with or without our mind knowing about it. Satvik foods makes our mind to realize it. Rajasic food makes our mind to believe the illusive nature of it, Tamasic food makes our mind to altogether shut that awareness. Your camera is as good as the lens you have similarly, your mind is as good as the food you consume and lifestyle you choose to live.
One of Krishna's name is the most ancient person as nobody pre-dates him. He is the first and the last, he is everything. Thus Sage Parashara, Sage Brihgu, Sage Vasistha, Sage Vishvamitra Sage Durvasa and all the hundreds of thousands of sages might be different in their manifestation but they are the same reality. Their manifestation required to enlighten different forms of awareness which exist in humanity in this kali age of arguments and stupidity. This same reality is what we call ParaBrahman or Krishna.
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EngagedMoon
- Registered User
- Posts: 21
- Joined: 25 Apr 2012
When I'm looking at Rasi chart of Varga charts It simply means I'm looking at universe at its different awareness. All the awareness are independent in its very existence. Let me give you a simple example. Actor can act in 16 different movies, but in each movies he has an independent role to play but in reality he is the same one person, this what it means by even when its seen together but its independent in its very role like Krishna. Krishna lives in every body thus all the body in this world is considered as sacred temples. Where ever Krishna resides that place becomes Temple. Just like which ever vehicle the president is in will change status to becomes air force one and so on. But in each of this body Krishna plays a different role even though he is seen dependent but in reality he is independent of the roles which he have taken. Similarly vedic astrology is just mathematical points of the universe at a given time related to the alignment of the navagrahas and their energies. Navagrahas are also manifestations of Krishna like everything else. The awareness of this manifestation also differs, mathematical points are visible to our intellect and mind thus we relate all other awareness (Divisional charts) as supplement to the rashi chart. Suppose we can have the awareness of other important charts lets say D108 then we can realize this existence without using rashi at all. This is the case of Sages travelling between time, souls crossing conscious dimensional awareness through meditations.
I'm not here to point out your vices or your methods of doing things. Krishna have plans for everyone and thus through that plan one will collectively create a union with him in a selected time period. This time period might be instant for some and might take many births for others. So generalizing others is as same as saying all the sheeps are the same because they are all white. Also, for those who reading this, don't expect me to reply this thread or explain anything more about this because I've only authorized to explain as much. My sincere advise, before you guys go diving into vargas and rashi charts, yogas ask yourself what is birth chart, what is nakchatras, what is vargas, as what first before asking why when how. Answer the WHAT first and you'll gain phenomenal knowledge of universal awareness of energies which effect our life. You can start that by eating satvik foods offered to Krishna first, meditate during 3.30am to 7am, do yoga, Understand Krishna is everything and everywhere thus talk to him, and lastly don't ever simplify things or take things the way it is in kali yuga. A good way to start is the voice of Krishna itself which is Gita. then his life Bhagavatam. This two sources is enough to enlighten you and make you understand manifestation of this universe and its awareness which is what we call vedic astrology. Every single word in this experience tailor made by Krishna for us. Unlike us, He is not limited to anything thus if he choose a specific word to give an example or incarnate as an avatar that means there is unlimited amount of knowledge and wisdom to be learned from it.
I'm not here to point out your vices or your methods of doing things. Krishna have plans for everyone and thus through that plan one will collectively create a union with him in a selected time period. This time period might be instant for some and might take many births for others. So generalizing others is as same as saying all the sheeps are the same because they are all white. Also, for those who reading this, don't expect me to reply this thread or explain anything more about this because I've only authorized to explain as much. My sincere advise, before you guys go diving into vargas and rashi charts, yogas ask yourself what is birth chart, what is nakchatras, what is vargas, as what first before asking why when how. Answer the WHAT first and you'll gain phenomenal knowledge of universal awareness of energies which effect our life. You can start that by eating satvik foods offered to Krishna first, meditate during 3.30am to 7am, do yoga, Understand Krishna is everything and everywhere thus talk to him, and lastly don't ever simplify things or take things the way it is in kali yuga. A good way to start is the voice of Krishna itself which is Gita. then his life Bhagavatam. This two sources is enough to enlighten you and make you understand manifestation of this universe and its awareness which is what we call vedic astrology. Every single word in this experience tailor made by Krishna for us. Unlike us, He is not limited to anything thus if he choose a specific word to give an example or incarnate as an avatar that means there is unlimited amount of knowledge and wisdom to be learned from it.
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EngagedMoon
- Registered User
- Posts: 21
- Joined: 25 Apr 2012
I've have explained sincerely from my heart. I'm sorry if there is any spelling, grammar errors. I'm very emotional when talking about Krishna. You can go ahead and bash me up on all the points to fuel your intellect and satisfaction in decent manner as you did above. Its the nature of Kali Yuga to contradict true knowledge and reroute it to illusive knowledge. You can reply me or choose not to reply me but I won't reply for sure, because everything I've said not self generated words but the supreme truth and there is nothing more to it, as it comes directly from Lord Krishna the manifestation of this very universe and infinite unknown universes.
I'm sorry if I over spoke, or said anything wrong. I didn't mean to do it. I sincerely would like to apologize for it. Rathore, one more thing, this reply is not for you alone, its directed to many others who have the karma to read about it in the future thus please do not take it personally as I've mentioned your name specifically. You and me are nothing but instruments of Krishna. Thank you very much Rathore for being yourself and questioning me in such manner for that created this opportunity for me to explain all this. Its called the lotus moment. Even though a lotus lives in a dirty pond it always never fail to be true to itself and thus its great opportunity to create a lotus which will then be picked by a devotee and deliver it to Krishna feet. This conversation is a lot like that, so please don't get angry or feel hard on yourself for it. Thank you very much.
Aum Tat Sat
I'm sorry if I over spoke, or said anything wrong. I didn't mean to do it. I sincerely would like to apologize for it. Rathore, one more thing, this reply is not for you alone, its directed to many others who have the karma to read about it in the future thus please do not take it personally as I've mentioned your name specifically. You and me are nothing but instruments of Krishna. Thank you very much Rathore for being yourself and questioning me in such manner for that created this opportunity for me to explain all this. Its called the lotus moment. Even though a lotus lives in a dirty pond it always never fail to be true to itself and thus its great opportunity to create a lotus which will then be picked by a devotee and deliver it to Krishna feet. This conversation is a lot like that, so please don't get angry or feel hard on yourself for it. Thank you very much.
Aum Tat Sat
EngagedMoon ji,
I am not sure what is the source of your statements such as - Sages being Aliens trying to justify their humanly conduct, BPHS is for Vairagya, Vargas are Universes at its different awareness, Maths is just a point of material and spiritual meet ups but its upto you to accept whatever you want.
In any case don't use abstract concepts to justify real methods or there cannot be any real results. The Scriptures tell to look for Pramaan (authoritative evidence) only after which a concept can be accepted/discarded. In other words - it doesn't matter what you or I or anybody else feels about "something". Anybody can say anything.
Scriptures also say- Even a young boy's words are to be accepted if they are words of wisdom, else reject it like straw even if uttered by Brahma the creator.
The essence of this is again that one can't accept just about anything and needs to have Pramaan or common sense to see if what is said is wise. But irrespective of what the scriptures say its just common sense to not accept everything one comes across.
So unless you have Pramaan of "Vargas being independent" then this discussion can only go in loops. This is because your argument is abstract while mine is not.
In short, the Lord can do anything & is everything so if you want to have a productive discussion on this subject use the real world evidences which are also given to us by the Lord only.
In context of this thread it doesn't matter how much you love the Lord or how insignificant this thread will be because us ignorant folks as of now wants to discuss (based on texts) if Vargas are to be treated as Rashi or not. So lets not get into how it would be when us ignorant folks realize that everything is, always was & always will be the Lord, because that way you shouldn't even be here voicing your opinion about Vargas (as you already know its insignificant & ignorant folks are trying to make sense of it). In other words lets not get into the Lord's name to justify your opinion. The Lord has also given the Scriptures so lets stay with that for this topic.
I don't know how you determine my usage of the word "Yoga" is loose but it doesn't really matter because we are talking about "Astrological Yogas" here and not just "Yoga". We are talking about if "Astrological Yogas" as told in Texts are applicable in Vargas. The usage here is obviously in an Astrological context. Keep that in mind. You can expand the meaning of the word and start relating it to other concepts (abstract or not) but again that will only go in loops because this thread is talking about REAL methods. So try to not jump context too much.
Please don't make up connections of the word ABSTRACT with food & energy and then explain your definition from that "made up" connection because this way anything can be related to any other thing. I can relate ABSTRACT to something and explain whatever I want from it then. Its that simple. So the word ABSTRACT is what it is, there is no need to relate it to other things to define it. But I will define the usage of ABSTRACT here so there is no doubt.
Usage of Abstract: This thread is talking about REAL step by step methods (from texts). So ABSTRACT here means something which is NOT a REAL method and is more of a feeling. E.g. Beauty is an abstract concept and can't be quantified. Abstract things can't be quantified and real things can be. ASPECTS are mathematical hence they are quantified. So by using an ABSTRACT concept how you conclude Aspects, Yogas (which are quantified) in Vargas is in the territory of "Explaining away anything". Do this for a while and you will realize what you were doing.
And it doesn't matter (in context of this thread) if someone believes their mathematical material points as life experiences. The thread is only about REAL quantifiable methods/concepts. The point here is to "Deliver" in the real world & not talk around abstract concepts. People here want REAL results.
You are assuming several things such as what texts I should read (without knowing if I have read them), how I have interpreted BPHS (and your opinion on how it should be) etc. etc. But those are just your assumptions and opinions and are not adding value to the topic under discussion. You can call this discussion as "ignorant people talking" but in that case you shouldn't even be here. Come out of these acrobatics if you want to have real world talk or if you are enlightened then its not possible for you to worry how Vargas should be read.
Rathore
I am not sure what is the source of your statements such as - Sages being Aliens trying to justify their humanly conduct, BPHS is for Vairagya, Vargas are Universes at its different awareness, Maths is just a point of material and spiritual meet ups but its upto you to accept whatever you want.
In any case don't use abstract concepts to justify real methods or there cannot be any real results. The Scriptures tell to look for Pramaan (authoritative evidence) only after which a concept can be accepted/discarded. In other words - it doesn't matter what you or I or anybody else feels about "something". Anybody can say anything.
Scriptures also say- Even a young boy's words are to be accepted if they are words of wisdom, else reject it like straw even if uttered by Brahma the creator.
The essence of this is again that one can't accept just about anything and needs to have Pramaan or common sense to see if what is said is wise. But irrespective of what the scriptures say its just common sense to not accept everything one comes across.
So unless you have Pramaan of "Vargas being independent" then this discussion can only go in loops. This is because your argument is abstract while mine is not.
In short, the Lord can do anything & is everything so if you want to have a productive discussion on this subject use the real world evidences which are also given to us by the Lord only.
In context of this thread it doesn't matter how much you love the Lord or how insignificant this thread will be because us ignorant folks as of now wants to discuss (based on texts) if Vargas are to be treated as Rashi or not. So lets not get into how it would be when us ignorant folks realize that everything is, always was & always will be the Lord, because that way you shouldn't even be here voicing your opinion about Vargas (as you already know its insignificant & ignorant folks are trying to make sense of it). In other words lets not get into the Lord's name to justify your opinion. The Lord has also given the Scriptures so lets stay with that for this topic.
I don't know how you determine my usage of the word "Yoga" is loose but it doesn't really matter because we are talking about "Astrological Yogas" here and not just "Yoga". We are talking about if "Astrological Yogas" as told in Texts are applicable in Vargas. The usage here is obviously in an Astrological context. Keep that in mind. You can expand the meaning of the word and start relating it to other concepts (abstract or not) but again that will only go in loops because this thread is talking about REAL methods. So try to not jump context too much.
Please don't make up connections of the word ABSTRACT with food & energy and then explain your definition from that "made up" connection because this way anything can be related to any other thing. I can relate ABSTRACT to something and explain whatever I want from it then. Its that simple. So the word ABSTRACT is what it is, there is no need to relate it to other things to define it. But I will define the usage of ABSTRACT here so there is no doubt.
Usage of Abstract: This thread is talking about REAL step by step methods (from texts). So ABSTRACT here means something which is NOT a REAL method and is more of a feeling. E.g. Beauty is an abstract concept and can't be quantified. Abstract things can't be quantified and real things can be. ASPECTS are mathematical hence they are quantified. So by using an ABSTRACT concept how you conclude Aspects, Yogas (which are quantified) in Vargas is in the territory of "Explaining away anything". Do this for a while and you will realize what you were doing.
And it doesn't matter (in context of this thread) if someone believes their mathematical material points as life experiences. The thread is only about REAL quantifiable methods/concepts. The point here is to "Deliver" in the real world & not talk around abstract concepts. People here want REAL results.
You are assuming several things such as what texts I should read (without knowing if I have read them), how I have interpreted BPHS (and your opinion on how it should be) etc. etc. But those are just your assumptions and opinions and are not adding value to the topic under discussion. You can call this discussion as "ignorant people talking" but in that case you shouldn't even be here. Come out of these acrobatics if you want to have real world talk or if you are enlightened then its not possible for you to worry how Vargas should be read.
What answer? The abstract answer of all being Brahmaan or the answer to what a Planetary Aspect is? Please refrain from making abstract statements if you like to provide real life input to this topic.EngagedMoon wrote:Text is compiled to guide you to that path not to give you answer in the text itself
How do you know your knowledge is True knowledge?EngagedMoon wrote:Its the nature of Kali Yuga to contradict true knowledge and reroute it to illusive knowledge.
Rathore
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satishdesh
- Registered User
- Posts: 49
- Joined: 07 May 2012
Namaste rathorji
It would have been great pleasure to read such post where the poster have invested his so much time.
I read your innovative, path breaking post; vargas are not rashi , though I do have some question marks. But still really some nice original thoughts supported by ancient texts.
I have not read that post but I don’t think that using different ayanansha we can have same chart. Use lahiri & raman ayanansha for rashisandhi or grahsandhi charts. We will have totally different charts/dashas indicating different grahaphala.
Backward rationalization or call it as reverse engineering do have advantages like study of continuous patterns of planetary positions which helps students to understand concepts in a better way. Jyotish is not a science but an art {विद्या} which heavily depends upon saturated experience {result of great hard work/labour} cumulating in so called intuition. And an art definitely have roots in intuition as this comes from honest guruparampara or saturated past experience/past birth deeds.
Regards
satish
It would have been great pleasure to read such post where the poster have invested his so much time.
I read your innovative, path breaking post; vargas are not rashi , though I do have some question marks. But still really some nice original thoughts supported by ancient texts.
I have not read that post but I don’t think that using different ayanansha we can have same chart. Use lahiri & raman ayanansha for rashisandhi or grahsandhi charts. We will have totally different charts/dashas indicating different grahaphala.
Backward rationalization or call it as reverse engineering do have advantages like study of continuous patterns of planetary positions which helps students to understand concepts in a better way. Jyotish is not a science but an art {विद्या} which heavily depends upon saturated experience {result of great hard work/labour} cumulating in so called intuition. And an art definitely have roots in intuition as this comes from honest guruparampara or saturated past experience/past birth deeds.
Regards
satish
Namaste Satish ji,
Yes the original poster had a very long post but is unfortunately removed now. Yes using different Ayanamsa he worked with different positions (more so in Vargas) and hence had different Dashas too. However he was able to justify all life events each time. This is simply because of non conformance with basics, inventing new basics or stretching existing ones & further using them (new, stretched basics) in a subjective manner.
I have refrained from saying this here but since you seem to be interested in researching so please note there are many "Convincing Astrological explanations" here where the Astrologer (from members of all cadres) worked with wrong charts (fat finger or however) & explained the events. Or original posters typed birth times wrong in their first post however "convincing Astrological explanations" were waiting the second time they visited. Many of these members are learned so its not about their capability but some of the knowledge picked up is flawed. In other words, we are working with questionable basics to begin with. This is one of the reasons why a lion's share of predictions go wrong and believe my words or not, "intuitions" play a part there too (how can it be intuition for a wrong chart/event?)
Backward rationalization is akin to drawing a target around an already shot arrow i.e. it is not systematic. Reverse Engineering is systematic. It works when one has some sound basics of Engineering (and the rules of reverse Engineering) to begin with. With questionable basics it is more likely to be amiss. Even a broken clock is right twice a day.
Rathore
Yes the original poster had a very long post but is unfortunately removed now. Yes using different Ayanamsa he worked with different positions (more so in Vargas) and hence had different Dashas too. However he was able to justify all life events each time. This is simply because of non conformance with basics, inventing new basics or stretching existing ones & further using them (new, stretched basics) in a subjective manner.
I have refrained from saying this here but since you seem to be interested in researching so please note there are many "Convincing Astrological explanations" here where the Astrologer (from members of all cadres) worked with wrong charts (fat finger or however) & explained the events. Or original posters typed birth times wrong in their first post however "convincing Astrological explanations" were waiting the second time they visited. Many of these members are learned so its not about their capability but some of the knowledge picked up is flawed. In other words, we are working with questionable basics to begin with. This is one of the reasons why a lion's share of predictions go wrong and believe my words or not, "intuitions" play a part there too (how can it be intuition for a wrong chart/event?)
Backward rationalization is akin to drawing a target around an already shot arrow i.e. it is not systematic. Reverse Engineering is systematic. It works when one has some sound basics of Engineering (and the rules of reverse Engineering) to begin with. With questionable basics it is more likely to be amiss. Even a broken clock is right twice a day.
Rathore
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satishdesh
- Registered User
- Posts: 49
- Joined: 07 May 2012
Namaste rathorji
I am not doing any research in astrology. I am a student of astrology and wish to be a student always.
When kp system was invented late shri bv raman was also sceptical w.r.t. its principles and application. But now a days it is a mainstream application tool. I do have some personal good experiences of this system. From ancient times to understand the destiny there were many ways to decipher this. Even we can see from AD texts main stream difference like parashari and jaimini. So let everybody try the application fundamentals as per tradition guidelines.
The ones who are good are basically intuitive and can tell the result probably by looking in a crystal ball too. So for them the method doesn't really matter although with practicing the same method over a life time they are able to generate intuition (by concentrating on their methods). At that point its not really as much of a technical analysis than an intuitive realization.
I think from your above mentioned words it’s quite clear.
I do not want to get into spiritual background for our discussion but lion’s share of failed predictions, intuition w.r.t. wrong charts are all part of destiny rather karmic interaction of astrologer and native.
But your thoughts of varga are not rashi are really illuminating.
I follow सर्वदेव नमस्कारं केशवं प्रतिगच्छति ।।
Regards
satish
I am not doing any research in astrology. I am a student of astrology and wish to be a student always.
When kp system was invented late shri bv raman was also sceptical w.r.t. its principles and application. But now a days it is a mainstream application tool. I do have some personal good experiences of this system. From ancient times to understand the destiny there were many ways to decipher this. Even we can see from AD texts main stream difference like parashari and jaimini. So let everybody try the application fundamentals as per tradition guidelines.
The ones who are good are basically intuitive and can tell the result probably by looking in a crystal ball too. So for them the method doesn't really matter although with practicing the same method over a life time they are able to generate intuition (by concentrating on their methods). At that point its not really as much of a technical analysis than an intuitive realization.
I think from your above mentioned words it’s quite clear.
I do not want to get into spiritual background for our discussion but lion’s share of failed predictions, intuition w.r.t. wrong charts are all part of destiny rather karmic interaction of astrologer and native.
But your thoughts of varga are not rashi are really illuminating.
I follow सर्वदेव नमस्कारं केशवं प्रतिगच्छति ।।
Regards
satish
Dear Engaged Moon,EngagedMoon wrote:
Rathore, Vargas chart are independent in their standings even when they appear to be dependent to the rashi chart. As with everything in this universe, achieving neutrality is the goal. All aspects, houses and yogas do work in varga charts but not for material purpose as pointed out in Rashi chart. The events materialising is totally another chapter as Varga charts are there to show us the specific traits of a person. We living in Kali yuga wanting everything to materialize thus we reflect it back to Rashi chart to find points of materialization thus ignoring anything which doesn't materialize in varga charts. Also, the BHPS done by the Great Sage Parashara, he is not human like us. His knowledge are not based on human intellect but pure devotion to Lord Narayana. He authored Vishnu Purana need I to say more? He is the grandson of Sage Vashista which was the Guru for Lord Rama himself. The version of BHPS that written by Sage Parashara is for ignorant kali yuga astrologers who believe they are master of everything lord of none. Vedic Astrology cannot be understood through maths, intellect, experience or research. Yes you can to a certain extend connect two dots to summarize an event but the more you do that the more you go the wrong path as with everything in Kali Yuga because its a illusive reality without a cause. It can only be understood by devotion to Lord Narayana who is the manifestation of time and energy itself. Vedic astrology need be understood using subconscious mind and soul awareness wisdom that been cultivated through meditation, satvik lifestyle, satvik food and pure devotion. Lord Krishna says he himself is the Nakchatra in Vishnu Sahasranama. While I hear a lot of talk about vedic astrology mathematical concepts here, I don't hear anyone speaking about Krishna which is the very energy of the time and its planetary manifestation. Since, I'm new here I don't think they will approve this post since its contradicting your views but if they do, then I hope you and everyone here have a deep thought about what I've said above. I don't mean to argue, insult, or question your understanding. I just would like to express the truth. Thank you very much for allowing me to express it here. I deeply appreciate it.
You have raised some very valid points.. I do apprecaite you for brining this to our attention.
Lilly
