Vargas are NOT to be read as Rashi

[rathore]

From my earlier post and I hope this was read by the readers earlier:

Verses such as below confuse folks who are not familiar with the technicality of Aspects - If the Sun is aspected by Saturn and be in Aries/Scorpio Navamsa the father would have given up the family before the birth of the child or would have passed away.

It means (because the Sage has already defined what Aspects are)- If the Sun is aspected by Saturn (in Rashi chart) AND be itself in Aries/Scorpio Navamsa then no Papa ji present.

Now to the references posted, most are in line with Parashara and confusion arises for those don't know what an Aspect is technically. When one knows that, most of the confusion disappears and one can even understand a mistranslated Verse. I am mentioning the parts that can may have caused confusion to those not familiar with Aspects:

1. Saptamsha reference:

When the lord of Saptamsha is conjunct or aspected by Moon and auspicious planets look at it then native has brothers, fame, friendship etc.
Comment: Lord of Satpamsha aspected or conjunct Moon and aspected by auspicious planets in Rashi chart (and NOT Saptamsha "chart"). Rest of the Hindi translation is to be read in the same manner.



2. Drekkana reference:

When the Lord of Drekkana is in an Auspicious Rashi or aspected by Venus and an auspicious planet then the native is famous, happy etc.
Comment: It says lord of Drekkana in an auspicious Rashi (and NOT auspicious Drekkana) i.e. in Rashi chart because Rashis are only in the Rashi chart and Drekkanas exist in Drekkana diagram. And aspected by Venus etc. in Rashi chart (and NOT Drekkana "chart"). There is no separate Drekkana "chart". Everything is happening in the Rashi chart to begin with. Rest of the Hindi translation is to be read in the same manner.

Continued..

[rathore]

3. Navamsa Mansagari reference:



Comment: Divided in 6 parts below for clear understanding:

3a. The Navamsa phalam(result) is already ended on the previous page. Why to start another Navamsa phalam?

3b. Except the Hindi translation there is no reference to Navamsa or Amsa in the Sanskrit Verse itself.

3c. I earlier posted the same verse with COMBUST Mars i.e. the Verse reference provided differs in different Mansagari versions even at the Sanskrit level! This raises a red flag. In any case Combustion happens only in Rashi.

3d. Also note the translator has not translated the Garbha sthan. He put it as-is in Hindi i.e. this translation is questionable.

3e. Your version of Mansagari says Iti Panchamsthane Navamsa kundalaye graha phala while another version doesn't. It just says Panchamsthgrahaphalam.

3f. There never are Verses that declare specific quantified results (such as 3 kids or getting married at 29 years of age) based on planetary positions in a Varga only. They always take Rashi chart into account first and then talk about the related Varga. This whole verse is breaking that basic rule! How can a result be told just based on a Navamsa position when by ignoring the Rashi chart altogether?

All of the above indicates this is a corrupt heading/translation and if nothing else just the last point 3f is enough to conclude the same. It is only talking about the Rashi chart is the only conclusion one can make thus.

This is why it is needed to get good with the Technical part first before jumping to Phalit otherwise such odd and inconsistent (3f) things happen. This is a classical misstep.

Continued..

[rathore]

4. Navamsa Hora Ratnam reference:


Let's talk about position of Natal 5th lord (Panchmesh) from Lagna Navamsa.
If the natal 5th lord is conjunct/aspected by a benefic/malefic from Navamsa Lagna then the native gets more sons. If the 5th lord from Navamsa Lagna is a malefic or conjunct/aspected by a malefic then less sons for the native.
Comment: In the Hindi translation the Natal 5th lord is told to be conjunct/aspected by a benefic or a malefic from Lagna Navamsa. What does this even mean? If the verse wants to say that 5th lord of Natal is influenced by a malefic or a benefic in Navamsa then why it it even mentioning Navamsa Lagna? Should be saying: Natal 5th lord conjunct/aspected by benefic/malefic in Navamsa gives more sons.

Second part talks about the reverse results (less sons) and now its talking about 5th lord from Navamsa Lagna or Natal 5th lord itself (it is not clear which as it calls it Panchmesh too). Then goes on to say - If that 5th lord is malefic or conjunct aspected by a malefic then less sons.

One can see several inconsistencies in the translation:
1. Mention of Navamsa Lagna for no reason for more sons
2. For more sons both benefic/malefic influencing 5th lord are okay but for less sons only malefics should influence
3. For less sons it wants to see the 5th lord from Navamsa lagna should be a malefic but for more sons it only care about 5th lord of Natal

Above inconsistencies are enough to raise a question mark on the translation (even though there are more). Try making sense of it as a whole by thinking of various possibilities of what it may mean, it would not make full sense.

I will try to get this translated. Please note when dealing with translations the author's own viewpoint comes in. This view point of treating Vargas independently is prevalent now as most will never read/comprehend the basic chapters and then pass on the same. If one is serious about Jyotish then basic chapters must be strengthened.

Continued.. (edited for elaboration)

[rathore]

I am not sure if you have a confusion with the Aspects reference you posted. If any let me know. For partial vs. full aspect please read the BPHS reference provided earlier. In case you are not sure what is Sputa drishti then this may help: http://www.saravali.de/articles/drishti_sputa.html

I see few readers are jumping to conclusions. Please make sure you read the whole thread, understand how BPHS (a Rishi Hora not a compilation) defines Aspect technically and then go ahead make a conclusion.

Although personally I don't feel most will be interested as this is too detailed and requires time/patience. But those who will take time will not be leaving their Astrological knowledge (on Vargas) to chance.

Rathore

[rathore]

I received a very good question and am glad a few are reading the Ganit/technical parts of Astrology for themselves. I am answering in public for readers.

Question: Doesn't Drikbala (Aspectual strength) also prove that planetary Aspects can't exist in Vargas?

Answer: Yes.

Drikbala is a part of Shadbala and can only be calculated using Planetary Longitudes. Essentially it means if a planet is aspected by benefics it gets positive points and by malefics it gets negative points. Full and Partial aspects both are used in this calculation and should a planet have negative Drikbala value it means it is more under the influence of (natural) malefics.

So if we were to consider Aspects in Vargas we cannot calculate Drikbala as longitudes do not exist in Vargas, which means Drikbala (i.e. Aspectual strength) is non existent in Vargas. So what does it even mean to have an "Aspect" on a planet without "Aspectual strength" value related to it? I don't know but its something like a car running at 100 kmph that was never fueled.

This is similar to the "Aspectual Value" BPHS screenshot posted earlier on this thread which too is longitude based. And since "Aspectual Value" cannot exist in a Varga what does it even mean to have an "Aspect" without an "Aspectual Value"? You can decide.

Drikbala basics: A preview below:


Rathore

[anuradha]

http://img6.imageshack.us/img6/2633/7b87.jpg

[anuradha]

http://img853.imageshack.us/img853/9260/3aao.jpg
http://img854.imageshack.us/img854/8480/n705.jpg
http://img46.imageshack.us/img46/8837/gt7z.jpg
http://img51.imageshack.us/img51/8171/5oxr.jpg
http://img585.imageshack.us/img585/6470/g3g4.jpg

[anuradha]

http://img15.imageshack.us/img15/9232/v6oa.jpg
http://img837.imageshack.us/img837/2793/p1nq.jpg

[anuradha]

I hope that the above proofs will clear the doubt between general aspect and aspectual value. I have given the reference from two different classical text[B.P.H.S and Jatakpaddhati by Keshavchrya]I have not added anything of my own. regards

[anuradha]

Comment: Divided in 6 parts below for clear understanding:

3a. The Navamsa phalam(result) is already ended on the previous page. Why to start another Navamsa phalam?

3b. Except the Hindi translation there is no reference to Navamsa or Amsa in the Sanskrit Verse itself.

3c. I earlier posted the same verse with COMBUST Mars i.e. the Verse reference provided differs in different Mansagari versions even at the Sanskrit level! This raises a red flag. In any case Combustion happens only in Rashi.

3d. Also note the translator has not translated the Garbha sthan. He put it as-is in Hindi i.e. this translation is questionable.

3e. Your version of Mansagari says Iti Panchamsthane Navamsa kundalaye graha phala while another version doesn't. It just says Panchamsthgrahaphalam.

3f. There never are Verses that declare specific quantified results (such as 3 kids or getting married at 29 years of age) based on planetary positions in a Varga only. They always take Rashi chart into account first and then talk about the related Varga. This whole verse is breaking that basic rule! How can a result be told just based on a Navamsa position when by ignoring the Rashi chart altogether?

All of the above indicates this is a corrupt heading/translation and if nothing else just the last point 3f is enough to conclude the same. It is only talking about the Rashi chart is the only conclusion one can make thus.

This is why it is needed to get good with the Technical part first before jumping to Phalit otherwise such odd and inconsistent (3f) things happen. This is a classical misstep.

Continued..

The reference was given from two different translation of Mansagri, and both are saying the same thing i.e aspect in Navmansha. Kindly refer the proofs. regards

[anuradha]

Re: Vargas are NOT to be read as Rashi
Postby rathore » 19 Oct 2013, 03:04

From my earlier post and I hope this was read by the readers earlier:
rathore wrote:
Verses such as below confuse folks who are not familiar with the technicality of Aspects - If the Sun is aspected by Saturn and be in Aries/Scorpio Navamsa the father would have given up the family before the birth of the child or would have passed away.

It means (because the Sage has already defined what Aspects are)- If the Sun is aspected by Saturn (in Rashi chart) AND be itself in Aries/Scorpio Navamsa then no Papa ji present.

Now to the references posted, most are in line with Parashara and confusion arises for those don't know what an Aspect is technically. When one knows that, most of the confusion disappears and one can even understand a mistranslated Verse. I am mentioning the parts that can may have caused confusion to those not familiar with Aspects:

1. Saptamsha reference:
Image
When the lord of Saptamsha is conjunct or aspected by Moon and auspicious planets look at it then native has brothers, fame, friendship etc.
Comment: Lord of Satpamsha aspected or conjunct Moon and aspected by auspicious planets in Rashi chart (and NOT Saptamsha "chart"). Rest of the Hindi translation is to be read in the same manner.



2. Drekkana reference:
Image
When the Lord of Drekkana is in an Auspicious Rashi or aspected by Venus and an auspicious planet then the native is famous, happy etc.
Comment: It says lord of Drekkana in an auspicious Rashi (and NOT auspicious Drekkana) i.e. in Rashi chart because Rashis are only in the Rashi chart and Drekkanas exist in Drekkana diagram. And aspected by Venus etc. in Rashi chart (and NOT Drekkana "chart"). There is no separate Drekkana "chart". Everything is happening in the Rashi chart to begin with. Rest of the Hindi translation is to be read in the same manner.

Continued..

Please see the proof again, it clearly say Moon in the Dreshkone Lagna or aspecting the Dreshkone Lagna or Mars or Venus aspecting the Dreshkone Lagna. Both Sanskrit and Hindi, from two translations suggesting the same thing. regards

[rathore]

Anuradha ji,

# You have highlighted the "Notes" part about Drishti which is the "Opinion" of the Translator on the Translation rather than the "Translation" itself. The English "Translation" says that the Aspects are "Ordinarily" described by the ancient preceptors i.e. to say its a layman's (ordinary) way of saying it. Let us see the below for the Translations:



&



Continued..

[rathore]

In any case let us consider the "Opinion" of the translator in your screenshots and work with it.

# Lets assume for a bit that "Ordinary Aspect" is separate type of Aspect then what is its strength? How to quantify it? That is to say an "Ordinary Aspect" is without an "Aspectual value" & "Aspectual strength". So when the separate "Ordinary Aspect" happens, what can it do with its non existent Value? Its like trying to shine a torch without batteries.

# Please note for each planet that has Special Aspects (Mars, Jup, Sat) every time Sputa Drishti has a special calculation. Why? Because they are the same. Also Sphuta Drishti covers the Partial Aspects too which are not used by Astrologers as such hence when "Generally" speaking about "Aspects" ancient preceptors talk only about full Aspects i.e. 5, 7, 9 or 3, 7, 10 etc. This is just for ease of use. What you think is "Ordinary Aspect" is a layman's way but its precise calculations (so it can have a value to modify the Phalit results) are told in your screenshots too.

# This is why whenever an Astrologer sees an exact Aspect on another Planet or say Lagna its time to declare full result i.e. again "Ordinary Aspect" is a layman way of talking about "Sphuta Aspect". Similarly when one sees a weak Aspect say Moon in 7th house at 2 degrees and Jupiter in 1st at 29 degrees one knows it wouldn't give full results of Gaj Kesari yoga. Just like a Conjunction is stronger when Planets are longitudinally closer its the same thing with Aspects. There is no "Ordinary conjunction" vs. "Sphuta conjunction".

# Please also note if you think "Ordinary Aspect" is separate your "notes" reference says Aspects on "Houses" too. Houses are longitude based, if this "Ordinary Aspect" is something separate & happens to a House, where on the House is it happening? All over the House? Uniformly distributed? So if Jupiter is in 1st house at 29 degrees its "Ordinarily Aspecting" uniformly over Trines and 7th? Moon in 7th house at 2 degrees is also "Ordinarily Aspecting" 1st house uniformly? This way one must conclude a strong Gaj-kesari yoga!
Now if you say, no its strength decreases/increases based on the longitude well then this "Ordinary Aspect" that you think is "different" becomes meaningless.

# Please also note calculated values of "Aspectual value" as well as "Aspectual strength i.e. Drikbala" changes based on longitudes of the Planetary bodies in question. This is how a Gaj Kesari or any Yoga becomes stronger/weaker in terms of longitudes.

# Similarly in your Hindi (Jataka Paddhati) reference, it starts to talk about the calculation of "Aspectual value" for all Planets and later talks about Graha swabhava anusaar Partial Aspect on 3-10 , 9-5 , 4-8 for all planets (& Full Aspect on 7th) while noting that Saturn, Jupiter & Mars respectively have Full Aspects on these places & not Partial like other planets (i.e. 3-10 , 9-5 , 4-8). Now please read the calculation part of "Aspectual value" again (on top of your reference) it is doing the calculations for the same Aspects i.e. 3-10 , 9-5 , 4-8 & 7th i.e. to say 3-10 , 9-5 , 4-8, 7th is a layman's way of talking about Aspects & their actual mathematical calculations is the Real Deal. If you want, get this one translated from a Sanskrit Scholar as it is confusing you.

I am writing in detail for readers at different phases of learning. Hope this clears it for you.

Continued..

[rathore]

The reference was given from two different translation of Mansagri, and both are saying the same thing i.e aspect in Navmansha. Kindly refer the proofs. regards

Did you also see the same shloka I posted about the combust Mars from another Mansagari? Combustion only happens in Rashi. And please note once more that your references cannot be talking about Navamsa (even if we ignore combust Mars) because results can never be told just based on some Navamsa position of planets - its the basic understanding of Parashari.

Please see the proof again, it clearly say Moon in the Dreshkone Lagna or aspecting the Dreshkone Lagna or Mars or Venus aspecting the Dreshkone Lagna. Both Sanskrit and Hindi, from two translations suggesting the same thing. regards

A couple of Mansagari shlokas you posted are completely different (even at Sanskrit level word by word) in another version of Mansagari. If you wish I can post it or send privately. Unless the original manuscript is in hand I cannot know which one is correct but when one sees other Varga chapters of Mansagari (where it talks about Vargas as they should be and not like something with Houses & Aspects), then you can be sure something is not OK with the Drekkana chapter (even if we ignore the technicality of Aspects & that we are dealing with questionable versions of Mansagari).

On a side note now a days practitioners are even taking "Akriti" Yogas in Vargas. Akriti yogas are literal akritis (shapes) the planets are creating in the zodiac. What does it even mean to have such Yogas in Navamsa when the planets are not aligned to that "shape" in the zodiac? That way we also have a different mini panchang running for each Varga. Lets get ready to celebrate Navamsa Diwalis!

Rathore

[anuradha]

I have given the photo proofs of Mansagri[ two translations] and Hora Saar[ On different vargas] which clearly says regarding the aspect in divisional charts. I have not interpreted or concluded anything of my own. B.P.H.S[G.C Sharma, Sagar publication] and Jatakpaddati [Dr Sarkant Jha, Chowkhambhha] are clearly saying that '' General aspect'' and '' Sphutha aspect'' are different. All the readers can refer to the photo proofs for the better understanding. regards

[rathore]

Presenting an "opinion" of the book's author on a "translation" is not equivalent to the "Translation".

This kind of "opinion" presented by some authors is the reason many are now doing acrobatics with absurd D-charts. So please don't base your posts on "opinions" while labeling them as "Translations" - by doing so readers get mislead.

So in your BPHS you are interpreting something based on the "Translator's extra notes". Read the translation itself - it is talking about how the ancient preceptors explained the aspects "Ordinarily" by just saying a Planet aspects 7th etc. from itself. Here "Ordinarily" means in a layman's way (i.e. just count the number of Signs to get to the aspected House which is easy rather than getting into its degrees).

You can also refer to other BPHS versions (two screenshots included earlier) or see a Sanskrit Scholar for yourself. You can even look at the Sanskrit Verse itself which clearly says "Eka Rashivaad Drishti... " & "Anya Swabhav Sphuta... ". Here "Eka" means the one earlier(Sign aspects) and "Anya" means another (Sphuta). Later it says that "generally" preceptors have described it as 5, 7, 9 etc. in an "ordinary" manner but their calculations are provided herein. Same applies to Jataka Paddhati.

I have also presented photo proofs of Mansagari where the same Shloka you present differs at the Sanskrit level (and is clearly talking about Rashi chart) & should you want I can add another Mansagari photo proof which is different word-to-word at the Sanskrit level for the same heading you presented. So lets not get into something for which questionable versions at the Sanskrit level are floating around.

Read the Hora Ratna translation for yourself - it makes little sense, if any. If you don't see the poor translation, please see an earlier post in this thread where it is being talked about. If you can make sense of that translation, please do write about it here.

Rathore

[anuradha]

I have also presented photo proofs of Mansagari where the same Shloka you present differs at the Sanskrit level (and is clearly talking about Rashi chart) & should you want I can add another Mansagari photo proof which is different word-to-word at the Sanskrit level for the same heading you presented. So lets not get into something for which questionable versions at the Sanskrit level are floating around.

Please give the link where you have given the photo proof of Mansagri, along with its author, publisher and page number etc.

[rathore]

Here is one reference from this thread only:

Translation: Should the lord of the 12th be a malefic and occupy 9th, 6th, 3rd or the 12 bhava as COMBUST Mars occupies the 5th bhava, the jataka's progeny dies.

By the way I think in the Khemraj Shrikrishnadas Mansagari edition, you may find this same verse (as above) in different places with slight wording variation. In Sanskrit texts (more so in Jyotish) one has to confirm what else is said about the same combination elsewhere.


This is from Sharma Choithmal (Sanskrit only) Mansagari. Comparing it to your Drekkana photo, one can play find 10 differences.

One must remember that when the manuscripts were put to paper, different people wrote them by hand and sometimes the handwriting is difficult to decipher and sometimes there was corruption of verses as they were many a times reduced to writing from memory. This is how technical Astrological logic becomes very important. That way one does not end up making disastrous predictions (by accepting corrupted verses that are technically incorrect).

Rathore

[anuradha]

If you have given the reference of Mansagri earlier, kindly give the link. Why you have only given the Sloka[if any] not the picture of whole page ? Why you have not quoted the same sloks of Mansagri which I have put as proof? You have not given the page number and publisher of your reference of Mansagri .Why you are believing that the two reference of Mansagri I have given are wrong and yours reference of Mansagri which has only sloka in Sanskrit[no picture of page,page no. and publisher ] but no translation, is correct. I have not added anything of my own in interpreting the Sloka as you did.. regards

[srcs]

@anuradha; Why not aspects in varga charts are/may be in the same way as that of jaimini astrology in so far as rasis /planets are in a particular Zodiacal rasi like trine/kendra/3&11 ie beneficial/square by virtue of
zodiacal rasi design? Here we shouldn't use jaimini's unique aspects between planets/rasis/argalas. All say navamsa is exclusively for married life.Then it follows that it alone can 've a say abt aspect of life but in reality navamsa
is not at all able to categorically say/foretell about marriage.There are charts where navamsa is very strong
but married life is disastrous.All the classics say Thrisamsa decides/can delineate the character esp. of ladies.
But it is found many aberrations in practical cases.Therefore it follows divisional charts can at the most be
used as a supplementary very nominally.The most classic case is of twins where everything fails in case of twins
with widely differing mental make-up/disposition/job profile/varied interests etc.

[satishdesh]

Namaste rathorji

Your understanding of the subject is fascinating and crystal clear. But I do have one doubt which always people have. If we can’t use d charts how we are going to have predictions for tweens? I do have a chart of tweens. Even some imp vargas like d-7/9/10 are having identical planetary placements. In this situation can you enlighten us ?

Regards
satish

[EngagedMoon]

Edited out irrelevant and personalized content, which was the entire post.


Moderator to EngagedMoon: Please desist from making these kinds of irrelevant posts that attack an individual. if you have something to contribute from an astrological perspective, do so, else stay away.

Aum Tat Sat.

[Prakruthi]

Rathore writing all you can on a stupid subject doesn't make an illusion to be real. That's a Rajasic mercurial tendencies. It will never be Satvik Wisdom which is the tendencies of Jupiter. That's the difference between Jupiter and Mercury.

Let me simplify, Learn about the qualities of Ether from the Puranas, beware its not written directly. Nothing about Brahman is ever written directly. Lord Skanda got the information through meditation, that gives you a perfect example. Lord Skanda is the action manifestation of Lord Krishna as mentioned in Bhagavad Gita. This shows you need to understand Hora through soul awareness and not through mental speculations. Increase your Satvik nature in you and research more on qualities of ether and its relationship to manifestation of time in creation. That will guide you to the right direction. Easier way be a Satvik Vaisnava and this knowledge can be accumulated easily due to powerful Satsang.

The understanding of different dimensions of space and its planetary alignment works exactly as how the body works. You have Physical body, Astral Body and Causal Body. You can only view Physical body, does that mean Astral Body and Causal Body doesn't exist? If you answered yes then you're lost in woods of ignorance. Bhagavad Gita confirms the different layers of creation. Vargas is that same layer of dimension since our body nothing but manifestation of ether.

Don't write and write and write to impress others of your Tamasic and Rajasic knowledge. I can go on writing for 7 days straight, but if it is full of stupidity, you will only able to impress those ignorant Tamasic and Rajasic individuals not Satvik individual for they know the truth of creation and creator.

As usual, I'm not going to reply to your stupidity as that will only progress the quality of kali yuga, so go ahead show your Tamasic and Rajasic qualities.

Aum Tat Sat.

Stupid subject? Illusion? Just because your EGO does not accept his understandings, it doesn't mean that he is talking on stupid subjects. Sorry! To me it seems that you are the one who is babbling with irrelevant information into a topic in which you don't even have a basic understanding. When you are participating in an astrological discussion, talk in astrological terms, backed up with solid examples and not about puranas. If you have nothing to talk about astrology, better refrain from posting junk material. If you still want to continue pouring in your theories, I REQUEST you to start your own thread and pour your babbles, instead of spamming this thread.

[satishdesh]

Namaste rathorji

Following are the details of new born twins { of course i have this from net. }

Will you please enlighten us how to study there charts without juggling of d-charts.
this is just to understand your techniques.

Date of birth : 10-Jan-2014
Time of birth : 10:46 AM (Girl), 10:47 AM(Boy)
Place : Brussels, Belgium

Regards
satish

[rathore]

Anuradha ji- I indicated earlier I am wary of talking about a Text for which significantly different versions are around. The shlokas are provided in previous posts for reference. If you want, compare your Mansagari with Sharma, Choithmal version & see the differences. This is because different scholars put these shlokas down from memory. Hence it is essential to have sound understanding of the fundamentals, otherwise misinterpretations occur based on copyist, editorial, memory, translation etc errors.

Recent e.g. now PVR ji is saying D24 calculation has been wrong all this time owing to misinterpretation. If it is to be believed at its face value, what about the SJC theories surrounding D24? Shilpa ji praised a D24 work by SJC. That all goes in vain including several case studies. This cannot even happen to begin with if the foundational principles are sound. Its not research anymore when the basics have been compromised in case one is thinking on those lines. Anyway, I digress.

Details:
Sharma, Choithmal
Mumbai, Shrivenkteshwar Steam Press
Acharya Shri Vinaychandra Gyan Bhandar, Jaipur
Banasthali University
Year 1884

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Srcs ji- yes Jaimini aspects are applicable in vargas because they are either on or off (no value in between) & occurs between Signs only (not houses). My exposure to Jaimini is minimal so I could be getting ahead of myself here.

EngagedMoon ji- You made a lot of assumptions about me on your own. In any case, if you can provide Astrological proof of your claim then please do write here.

Prakruthi ji- I guess its a normal case of when someone gets into religion or spirituality in an unhealthy manner thinking that I am superior than you because I am more spiritual/satvick than you. That defeats the definition of spirituality itself. And then because they are more spiritual than everybody else so whatever they think must be true. This is my feeling about that poster & could be wrong. Thanks for directing the thread in its supposed direction.

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Satishdesh ji- Vargas should be used just not as "independent charts" like Rashi chart because by their definition its not possible. Basically there is only one Lagna lord or 7th lord or any lord. There is no 10 Lagna lords/7th lords in Dasvarga etc. The real understanding comes in understanding the nature of Signs, Planets and their mixing with each other. Signs mix with Signs such as Scorpio Lagna with rising Navamsa Leo. Here Leo Navamsa (space) is within Scorpio Sign literally (spatially). Let us see how Texts mix this:

Result of Leo Navamsa rising in Scorpio Lagna - Fair complexion, broad chest & shoulders, reddish eyes, conquers enemies, valorous, has abundant hair.

Sun has less hair while Mars has glowing curly hair so I don't know how it arrived at abundant hair (if the translation is correct) but the rest is easy to see how Mars is being mixed with Sun here as well as Scorpio with Leo.
These results will become prominent when Sun & Leo are strong in the chart. If weak then not. Similarly a Planet in Some Sign and Some Navamsa get mixed & Planets mix with themselves .. all this modifying the House-Planet, Yogas etc result.

The tie breaker from what I know between twins is the nadiamsa (150th) division. In nadi texts there are detailed descriptions of each half of rising Nadiamsas. Usually they talk about number of siblings, characteristics, parents, timing of marriage, spouse, fortunes, misfortunes, death, past/future lives. It goes into pretty good details. Each nadiamsa I think rises for 48 seconds (sometimes less, its debatable), and the results are ascribed to half of a nadiamsa i.e. 24 seconds or so. Results vary widely from nadiamsa to nadiamsa and only sometimes it cares about the placement of a planet in the Rashi chart. In other words it doesn't matter if one is born with early marriage yoga or late marriage yoga in Rashi chart, the rising nadiamsa many times seems to decide the time of marriage & other major events.

Rathore