Detecting narcissism

[Aaron]

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[Aaron]

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[Aaron]

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[Aaron]

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[Aaron]

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[Aaron]

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[intstud]

Aaron, your analysis,as usual, is great.
I do have some questions about the list though.
What criteria were taken into account while making the list...and how has the author come up with the names?
Whatever the criteria are...how far is it possible to match these with examples like "Napolean" , "Steve Jobs" or even "Hitler"? I can't imagine the author had known them personally...and such things cannot..and should not be detected on the basis of stories or rumors.
When it comes to public personalities...no one really knows what they're really like.


Then again...we can't be sure these combinations produce people of the characteristics given here...in the same way in which we cannot be sure all narcissist have these combinations.

[2002diksha]

sorry,If I ma jutting in. but the focus should be on diagnostics and therapy. everyone has some personality disorders. we are subjects to asynchronous situations all the time. only some are able to have a balanced view. developing such tendencies is very normal given a tepid situation. also self therapy ans self diagnostics is the best plan.
regartds

[intstud]

I agree with you diksha...well said.

I'm questioning the planetary combinations given...not the traits. I do agree Rah's the main planet that creates self obsession...but the degree of that would depend on a lotta other factors.
We cannot,ever, judge the full characteristics of a person without analyzing the whole chart. Even then...the accuracy of the analysis is a different question altogether.
Look at about 100 charts with the combinations mentioned...more than 50% will NOT have the severe traits mentioned. Similarly...look at the charts of serial killers, rapists, etc...almost all of them will have more factors in their charts which indicate their conditions.

[confusedOnceMore]

Hi Aaron,

Thanks for the amazing post. Although, I tend to disagree with your concluding assertion that "No one can cure them". There are several who hold the opinion that narcissism can be cured if the narcissist in question goes through a severe narcissistic injury - a life crisis, which shatters the illusion of the False self. With that out of the way, a transformative healing process can begin, forcing the narcissist to adopt a more functional behaviour.
Also, astrologically, isn't it more likely that narcissism will manifest during the periods of the causative planets ? If yes, remedies could be possible, if the said planet(s) are identified timely.

Regards

[KET]

Hey Aaron.

May I know on what basis you have assumed RGV and KH are into this behaviour... Any planetary significance

Regds

[Aaron]

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[Aaron]

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[Aaron]

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[Aaron]

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[Aaron]

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[VioletTwilight]

People who are born in this period may indeed have very negligible traits of npd because exalted Saturn is influencing Rahu. What is Saturn? Saturn means restrictions, delays and being overly responsible. So Saturn-Rahu can supress narcissism.

And also "Rahu-Jupiter-some planet" in mutual trines isn't at all generic, I suggest you keep a close on these people if you ever bump into them.

While the survey shows NPD affects 1% of the population it must be noted that research is based on cases that are detected. Many traits of narcissism goes undetected and untreated - you know how cunning these narcissist can be, so the percentage is much higher than what is generally led to believe.
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Yes, obviously the more information you have on the native the better. But if a chart does show majority of these combinations then NPD will eventually show itself in the native's behavioral pattern- you wouldn't need Ascendant lord for that.

The stricter criteria would require in depth knowledge in astrology. This is for ordinary people and many of these combinations are also present in well known narcissists.

Thank you for your questions.

Regards
elipsIs

Dear elipsis,

A few weeks ago, I was reading "Jataka Paarijatha". The very first combination for "Balaarista" says.
"If Jupiter is in lagna, and moon in 12th or Moon in 6th or 8th aspected by Rahu, and lagna lord in dustana, then the newborn will die in a month".

I have this exact combination, and as you can see, I lived long enough to type this. What if we saw it for a newborn? A good astrologer will be looking for mitigating factors that may keep the child alive. But, ordinary people will live in fear their child might die. Did we really help ordinary people?

All newborns who die within a month may have this, but that doesn't mean it will give death for everyone who has it.
Similarly, all narcissistic persons may have given combinations, but that doesn't make everybody who has it narcissistic.

If we don't list all mitigating factors for a trait (especially a negative one), then we are making an innocent man- who might have mitigating factors (like exalted Saturn conjunct Rahu, you mentioned)- a suspect in the eyes of ordinary people. Ordinary people will keep a close eye on such persons and interpret any common human emotion in a negative light.

That is all I wanted to say.

Thanks for your patience,
Best regards,
Violet

[VioletTwilight]

Dear Aaron,

Analyzing psychological aspects of celebrities is like a chicken and egg problem.
We know neither their birth data reliably not their personalities.

All we know is their public image (through media) and we can try to find some patterns to see if public image fits the Moon lagna based on birth dates (if we had some reliable information like birth certificate or school certificates). I won't even trust the birth times since some places have the tradition of rounding-off to nearest half-an-hour.

Best regards,
Violet

[elipsis]

Dear elipsis,

]A few weeks ago, I was reading "Jataka Paarijatha". The very first combination for "Balaarista" says.
"If Jupiter is in lagna, and moon in 12th or Moon in 6th or 8th aspected by Rahu, and lagna lord in dustana, then the newborn will die in a month".

I have this exact combination, and as you can see, I lived long enough to type this. What if we saw it for a newborn? A good astrologer will be looking for mitigating factors that may keep the child alive. But, ordinary people will live in fear their child might die. Did we really help ordinary people?

All newborns who die within a month may have this, but that doesn't mean it will give death for everyone who has it.
Similarly, all narcissistic persons may have given combinations, but that doesn't make everybody who has it narcissistic.

If the chart has Arista-Bhanga yoga you wouldn't have to do any specific remedies. Your chart does have this yoga.

If we don't list all mitigating factors for a trait (especially a negative one), then we are making an innocent man- who might have mitigating factors (like exalted Saturn conjunct Rahu, you mentioned)- a suspect in the eyes of ordinary people. Ordinary people will keep a close eye on such persons and interpret any common human emotion in a negative light.

That is all I wanted to say.

Thanks for your patience,
Best regards,
Violet

We really can't list all the mitigating factors for a trait, what astrologers can generally do is list combinations so that people can use that information to further scrutinize people, their horoscopes, families etc just to extract more information about their behavior. There are literally thousands of yogas and most of them do not work - that doesn't mean the yoga itself isn't present in the chart, it might be ineffective or weak but we still list the combinations for them. Many charts have "kroora-hatya yoga" - a yoga which can create murderers but again many people with this yoga are still walking freely unblemished by the negative factors.

So here - we list combination that has a higher probability of forming narcissism, it doesn't mean people with these combination are all narcissists but its definitely worth close scrutiny. Its just like yogas - some work and some don't but the combinations still holds true.

Edit: Also I noticed hypocrisy in this forum - people only want good things to be true and wouldn't admit to their own faults. I am not in the business of pleasing people and tell them good things all the time, if I find an anomaly which is worth scrutiny I would do it - it would help them and me and everyone in the long run.

Regards.

[intstud]

"So here - we list combination that has a higher probability of forming narcissism, it doesn't mean people with these combination are all narcissists but its definitely worth close scrutiny. Its just like yogas - some work and some don't but the combinations still holds true."

Exactly the point I was trying to make all this while.

I agree that the level of hypocrisy in this forum is really unbelievable. People are so blinded by ego that they neither have the sight of any valid points others make, nor do they have the guts to admit that they might have made a mistake.
Most people hate being logically corrected.

This, however, is contradictory. "people only want good things to be true and wouldn't admit to their own faults. "
It would really depend on whether the good or bad things actually manifest. "Want" means nothing in astrology. Say you have an amazing yoga in your chart..which doesn't really manifest...when you claim that the effects don't hold true for you...not too many would argue...but if you say the same thing about a bad yoga present in your chart...God save your from criticism.
No one, but the person concerned would really know whether a yoga (good or bad) is truly working for him....unless the astrologer is family or a close friend. The maximum an astrologer can do is predict possibilities...only God can make this yoga manifest or stop it from manifesting.

[elipsis]

"So here - we list combination that has a higher probability of forming narcissism, it doesn't mean people with these combination are all narcissists but its definitely worth close scrutiny. Its just like yogas - some work and some don't but the combinations still holds true."

Exactly the point I was trying to make all this while.

I agree that the level of hypocrisy in this forum is really unbelievable. People are so blinded by ego that they neither have the sight of any valid points others make, nor do they have the guts to admit that they might have made a mistake.
Most people hate being logically corrected.

This, however, is contradictory. "people only want good things to be true and wouldn't admit to their own faults. "
It would really depend on whether the good or bad things actually manifest. "Want" means nothing in astrology. Say you have an amazing yoga in your chart..which doesn't really manifest...when you claim that the effects don't hold true for you...not too many would argue...but if you say the same thing about a bad yoga present in your chart...God save your from criticism.

No one, but the person concerned would really know whether a yoga (good or bad) is truly working for him....unless the astrologer is family or a close friend. The maximum an astrologer can do is predict possibilities...only God can make this yoga manifest or stop it from manifesting.

Since we are discussing narcissism here - I would like to point out that a narcissist wouldn't be able to figure out whether he/she has symptoms of narcissism even when they know astrology and they wouldn't even admit the existence of bad yogas because the delusion present in their inherent nature would inhibit any possibility of corrective measures. This thread is not made to gratify narcissists but to protect others from them.

[2002diksha]

elipsisji,
Any role of navamsa in detecting narcissism.
regards

[intstud]

"This thread is not made to gratify narcissists but to protect others from them."
This is a terrible, terrible approach in terms of psychology. We're automatically assuming that a narcissist is a murderer or a sexual predator...he might simply be an arrogant idiot who needs help. Narcissists are humans too.
Like most psychological disorders, this too can be corrected with the right kinda help.
A schizophrenic doesn't know he's schizophrenic...a narcissist doesn't know he's narcissistic...a person with MPD doesn't know he has that...and so on...this is a common thing. It they knew they had these problems, they'd be (partially..or even fully) cured.

[elipsis]

"This thread is not made to gratify narcissists but to protect others from them."
This is a terrible, terrible approach in terms of psychology. We're automatically assuming that a narcissist is a murderer or a sexual predator...he might simply be an arrogant idiot who needs help. Narcissists are humans too.
Like most psychological disorders, this too can be corrected with the right kinda help.
A schizophrenic doesn't know he's schizophrenic...a narcissist doesn't know he's narcissistic...a person with MPD doesn't know he has that...and so on...this is a common thing. It they knew they had these problems, they'd be (partially..or even fully) cured.

Its not a terrible approach, if you do nothing that would be terrible - thanks for your comments.

[elipsis]

elipsisji,
Any role of navamsa in detecting narcissism.
regards

Of course, for that you would require accurate time of birth. But navamsa shouldn't be read just like you read rasi chart, yogas cannot form in the divisional charts but divisional charts can be used to confirm yogas present in the rasi chart.