Marriage compatiblity- contradicting opinions on progeny

[astrokmr]

Dear Friends,

EDIT - Updated (DOB) : Very very sorry to all. DOB corrected - my DOB is 08:46 AM & not 08:46 PM as given earlier. I was aware of my dob very well, but still I could not figure out how I entered wrongly. I came to know of the error only after going through the Mani Jis response where he has mentioned that my 5th house is okay whereas in reality my 5th house has Mandi in it though the SAV score is 29


EDIT 2 : removed the DOB details

Please analyze both the charts for presence of any complications releated to progeny.

Male :
04/01/1982
08:46 AM
Erode

Lagna: Capricorn,
Rasi: Mesham
Star : Ashwini

Female:


Lagna: Sagittarius
Rasi: Libra
Star :Chithirai 4

Some background:
We have been on hunt for a good girl for some time now. We got the female's horoscope from marriage bureau (Astrologer as well) and informed the girl's side. Usually I would consult with my regular astrologer before asking for opinions from the girls side but since I was away from my hometown I could not consult my regular astrologer and sent the horoscope to the girls parents thinking that that girls parents would be more careful keeping their daughter's happiness in mind and that they would consult more thatn one astrologer before arriving at the final decision. In the mean time, I consulted my regular astrologer and he said that the girls horoscope is week similar to mine where mandi is sitting in 5th house. He says that both of our charts have the afflicted 5th house and 9th house and is not good. The girls parents later informed us that that their astrologer has given the green signal.

So, I hope that you guys understand my position. This astrologer whom I used to consult is a good guy and knows me very well. So, I cannot ignore his advice too. I request my beloved friends and esteemed astrologers to give their suggestions. My worry is if there are foreseen complications and If I decided to go ahead with the marriage considering that the girls side were okay[And we got very good opnions about them] and if these issues cropped up after marriage then this would make me guilty and the girl also would be in problem.

Thanks.

[revribhav]

saturn moves to her 11th house consequently the chart promises progeny

[howzat]

by astrokmr » 22 Feb 2013 07:02
Dear Friends,
Please analyze both the charts for presence of any complications releated to progeny.

Male :
04/01/1982
08:46 pm
Erode

Female:
03/05/85
11.15 PM
Erode
Some background:
We have been on hunt for a good girl for some time now. We got the female's horoscope from marriage bureau (Astrologer as well) and informed the girl's side. Usually I would consult with my regular astrologer before asking for opinions from the girls side but since I was away from my hometown I could not consult my regular astrologer and sent the horoscope to the girls parents thinking that that girls parents would be more careful keeping their daughter's happiness in mind and that they would consult more thatn one astrologer before arriving at the final decision. In the mean time, I consulted my regular astrologer and he said that the girls horoscope is week similar to mine where mandi is sitting in 5th house. He says that both of our charts have the afflicted 5th house and 9th house and is not good. The girls parents later informed us that that their astrologer has given the green signal.
So, I hope that you guys understand my position. This astrologer whom I used to consult is a good guy and knows me very well. So, I cannot ignore his advice too. I request my beloved friends and esteemed astrologers to give their suggestions. My worry is if there are foreseen complications and If I decided to go ahead with the marriage considering that the girls side were okay[And we got very good opnions about them] and if these issues cropped up after marriage then this would make me guilty and the girl also would be in problem.

by revribhav » 22 Feb 2013 14:16
saturn moves to her 11th house consequently the chart promises progeny

dear Revribhav - from when Shani is started giving children if he is in 11H? how he moved to 11 also i am not knowing. bhava chart moved means - he is aspecting 5H ah? Sripathi house / equal house setting you are using - if you set lagna in middle of house or from lagna degree also - shani is showing as in 11 Bhava. so what? he is giving progeny ah? what this.

by astrokmr » 22 Feb 2013 07:02
I consulted my regular astrologer and he said that the girls horoscope is week similar to mine where mandi is sitting in 5th house. He says that both of our charts have the afflicted 5th house and 9th house and is not good.

dear astrokmr - for you chart is weakness for childrens. so what? for her it is no problem. even if there is problem today medicine is there. dont worry. now you ask astrologer - how mandi came and sitting in 5H in girls and yours horoscope means. what is calculation? what this.

[subramanianp]

Dear astrokmr
Gone through both the charts.
Regarding puthra bhava in the girls chart you need not worry much.
Reason:-
1.In female horoscope 9th house is to be considered for children.the 9th lord is in Ucha rasi and is having a shubhamsaka.
2.Gulika in the 5th from Moon also wont create problem because he is with Jupiter having Ucha amsaka.
But I will advise you to go with your regular Astrologer !!!
Reason:-
(a). There is a DASA SANDHI in the year 2020.(that too Mars and Saturn are involved in that).
(b).There is no proper Papa samya among the charts .
I personally advise not to go for marriage in this case.

[subramanianp]

dear astrokmr - for you chart is weakness for childrens. so what? for her it is no problem. even if there is problem today medicine is there. dont worry. now you ask astrologer - how mandi came and sitting in 5H in girls and yours horoscope means. what is calculation? what this.

Dear howzat.
Mandi in the 5th is as per BHAVA chart.

[astrokmr]

Thanks to everyone for taking time out to see the charts and giving valuable suggestions.

Dear astrokmr
Gone through both the charts.
Regarding puthra bhava in the girls chart you need not worry much.
Reason:-
1.In female horoscope 9th house is to be considered for children.the 9th lord is in Ucha rasi and is having a shubhamsaka.

Thanks subramanian for analyzing the chart.

What is shubhamsaka? What about Raghus placement with 9th lord there? Just I am curious to know.

2.Gulika in the 5th from Moon also wont create problem because he is with Jupiter having Ucha amsaka.

Isn't gulika placement 4th from moon[Libra]?. How to interpret Jupiter's [2nd & 5th house]debilitation there?

But I will advise you to go with your regular Astrologer !!!
Reason:-
(a). There is a DASA SANDHI in the year 2020.(that too Mars and Saturn are involved in that).

(b).There is no proper Papa samya among the charts .
I personally advise not to go for marriage in this case.

Subramnanian Ji, are you saying this based on the bad Papasamya match alone?. How much important is the Papasamya Match in chart matching and what could it mean for a couple with bad Papasamya match?. What is your personal advice on the compatibility of the two charts considering all the points?.

@ revribhav & howzat
Thanks for analyzing the chart and expressing your views.

So can I conclude from all your valuable opinions that unlike mine there is no need to worry about puthra bhava in the girls chart?. Are both the charts compatible ?. Already Subramanian Ji has given his concern on the bad Papasamaya match. Once again, I request Subramanian JI, revribhav & howzat & all the learned members to give their final opinion on the compatibility of two horoscopes or +VEs & -VEs with the matching of two charts.

[revribhav]

There are numerous ways of interpreting compatibility,each astrologer has his own tools based upon one's intuition and/or past experience. If one goes by an excessive pedantic or bookish knowledge,there would not be a compatible chart .

[howzat]

sir correctly you are telling there are many ways to interpret compatibility and all are having one one tool and intution experience. also correct you are telling bookish knowledge is excessive pedantic and all. but i am asking simple question - from when Shani is started giving children if he is in 11 bhava? so you are telling in your experience shani in 11H in bhava chart means he is giving a childrens. thank you for that. i will test and see.

[K.R.Mani]

Dear Astrokmr,

Several experts have analysed the charts and concluded against the alliance.

I am also inclined to go with them based on Saptamsh Chart which is a guidance for progeny.
While the 5th house of boy's Saptamsh chart is o.k., the girl's chart is with some blemish--Rahu is posited in 5th house.

The SAV score of of 5th house of the boy is 27 and the girl's 5th house has a poor 18, which is undesirable.

These yardsticks are definitely against the alliance.

[rathore]

.

[subramanianp]

Dear astrokmr
You asked 'What is shubhamsaka?'
Planet having navamsaka in a shubha rasi is said to have shubhamsaka (shubha+amsaka=shubhamsaka).
Secondly I rejected these charts for marriage because of the DASA SANDHI in the year 2020.
It is clearly marked in red ink in my reply.
Please read my reply word by word once again.
I have touched all points.
Nothing more to say.
It is a clear case to reject.
All the best.

[astrokmr]

Sorry to everone that there was a typo while entering my DOB. I entered as PM instead of AM. I know that I have wasted your valuable time by giving the wrong data. I know how much valuable the time is. I apologize to all of you for that. I have updated the DOB in my original post with Lagna & rasi details to avoid the confusion.

@howzat, subramaniyan Ji, revribhav, ratore, Mani Ji
Very very sorry for this. I came to know of the error only after going through the Mani Jis response where he has mentioned that my 5th house is okay whereas in reality my 5th house has Mandi in it though the SAV score is 29.

I went to my home place the weekend & I consulted few astrologers. I will post thier views in the next post in the evening as I have to leave for my work now.

@howzat, subramaniyan Ji, revribhav, ratore, Mani JI
Could you please once again analyze the charts for compatibilty?. Once again very sorry for the wrong DOB.

Thanks.

[revribhav]

You may not marry her as she is a strong manglic,you are not

[howzat]

by astrokmr » 22 Feb 2013 07:02

Dear Friends,

EDIT - Updated (DOB) : Very very sorry to all. DOB corrected - my DOB is 08:46 AM & not 08:46 PM as given earlier. I was aware of my dob very well, but still I could not figure out how I entered wrongly. I came to know of the error only after going through the Mani Jis response where he has mentioned that my 5th house is okay whereas in reality my 5th house has Mandi in it though the SAV score is 29

it is not problem - tomorrow if you tell your year of borning or month of borning is a different we will analyze. no problem. mistake is happening with everybodies

[astrokmr]

by astrokmr » 22 Feb 2013 07:02

Dear Friends,

it is not problem - tomorrow if you tell your year of borning or month of borning is a different we will analyze. no problem. mistake is happening with everybodies

by astrokmr » 22 Feb 2013 07:02

it is not a problem - tomorrow if you tell your year of borning or month of borning is a different we will analyze. no problem.

Hi howzat, Is that a sarcastic comment

Once again, I am sorry for posting the wrong data.

I met few astrologers last week and their observations are posted below. I would not have consulted this many astrologers had my personal astrologer given a favorable opinion.

Most of the astrologers's immediate attention was on the debilitation of guru & mercury in her chart. Thir conclusion was also driven mostly by those 2 planets. But there were few who overlooked those and they said "No, we should not come to any conclusion based on debilitation alone" and then went on to say it is a very good match for my chart. One said the planets are not in debilitation as they have crossed thir respective debilitation points and move beyond debilitation pt. This complies to K.N Rao's observation on Debilitation points. Jupiter & Mercury are not in debilitation as they have crossed thir respected debilitated points in thier respective debiliated houses.

Astrolgers 1 [ Personal Astrologer - Focussed on debilitation - Against the match]

His point was since the two main planets Jupiter & Mercury[ Lords of 1, 4th, 7th, 10th house] were debilitated , no improvements/development can be expected out of marriage. Life will remain continue to be as of now. When I asked him how could she have done Ph.D if the two lords were debilitated. Higher education could have been acheived but no benefits would be acheived out of it. He was against matching saying in tamil "pirpalangal illai". He also mentioned there is a puthra dosha in both the charts and hence will not get a girl. I said that it is okay then he further said that If the boy were born then we might have to undergo a lot of difficlulties because of him.

Astrologer 2[ No debilititaion - favored the match]
He was in favour of the match. I asked about the debilitation of planets. He said that the planets are beyond the point of debilitation. He countered me saying that girls should have had better education. I said "yes" and then he said if the planets were debiliated how should she have had higher education. He considered the rahu / ketu aspects as well. Then he said something auspicious becuase of mars aspecting saturn [12 th house] and saturn aspecting its own [2nd house] where jupiter is present. I didn't understand this clearly. Hope you guys can explain about this aspect.

He finally said this is a very good match for my chart. The reason is that I am more in words than in actions where she would be opposite.

Astrologer 3 [ recommended the match - considered bhava change]

The astrologer considered the bhava chart and mentioned that saturn would aspect from 11th house in the girl chart. Though he looked it differently than the Astrologer 2, the conclusion was that it was a good match,

Astrologer 4 [Favor of the match]

He said that it was a good match and the coming 7 years [jupiter dasa] is not good since, in the girls chart, this is the dasa of of jupiter sitting in second house (whuch is 8th to 7th house) . After that the saturn dasa starts which is in 6th house and it is good. Finally he recommnded the matching.

Can anybody explain on this?.

Astrologer 5 [Against the match]
He was against the match. Reason: Same as that of astrologer 1. Additonally he looked at the navamsha before coming to the conclsuion. He considered the debilitation but himself admitted that he was not sure how she could have acheived the higher education.

Astrologer 6 [Against the match]

He added one more reason for not recommending the matching. Her sade-sati starts in 1 year and at the same time I will be running astama sani.

Contnued in the next post...

[astrokmr]

I could find almost an astrologer -even more -in every street in my native town. There are only very very few good astrologers and in this world where evil prevails more than good we ignore the good astrologer who in very very few nos and and go to bad Astrologer who have spread out like anything for it is hard to find out if he is good. Many "would be good" matches are spoiled by these astrologers. These "many bad astrologers" are spoiling this divine science.

I was satisfied with the one Astrologer [Who said "no debelitation" in the chart] above who recommened the match for he was very practical but this was the first time I met him and so could not come to conclusion.

The astrologers whom I used to consult did not recomment the marriage. Their main points were that the planets Jupiter and Mercury were debilitated & rahu & sun in 5th house 2. One person said about astama sani and 71/2 sani running at the same time. I don't agree with their approach on debilitation [ though they are good people] since I feel that this was the reason that charts like these were rejected right away and the marriage is delayed.

So @howzat, @ Subramanian Ji, @revribhav & friends & learned members please give your views.

Also, we have to unite and somehow find an idea to prevent this divine science if not improve from being misused without good understanding. There are many learned members here. Why don't all the learned members in this forum come together and express their views and provide us information on the horoscope matching[ Not the kuta points]. This would help everyone to atleast pose questions to astrologers. Many fraud astrolgers are there because they are not faced with questions and this is the only profession where people do not ask any questions. Most people do not know basics [ One year back I dont even know what is star, rasi and Lagna] and hence avoid asking techical questions. These astrologers take advantage of this and make people run everywhere.

Also @howzat, @ Subramanian Ji, @revribhav & friends & learned members Please give your opinion on the charts compatibiity.

Expecting your response.

Thanks

[howzat]

by astrokmr » 26 Feb 2013 08:52
Astrolgers 1 [ Personal Astrologer - Focussed on debilitation - Against the match]

His point was since the two main planets Jupiter & Mercury[ Lords of 1, 4th, 7th, 10th house] were debilitated , no improvements/development can be expected out of marriage. Life will remain continue to be as of now. When I asked him how could she have done Ph.D if the two lords were debilitated. Higher education could have been acheived but no benefits would be acheived out of it. He was against matching saying in tamil "pirpalangal illai". He also mentioned there is a puthra dosha in both the charts and hence will not get a girl. I said that it is okay then he further said that If the boy were born then we might have to undergo a lot of difficlulties because of him.

now see one chart i will put -

october 20 1934 7:32 tokyo japan - Libra lagna - LL debilitated - 12 + 6 Lord is putting aspect for 7H. still she marry prince of japan and is became queen also. till today no divorce. name is what know? Michiko Shoda. you do google and see. wait i will only give link you see -

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Empress_Michiko

so sun vargothama debilitated venus near deep debilitation point and guru is a combust. 7 lord dispositor is a debilitated vargothama. still she is marry till today. so simply because debilitation planet is there it is not they are became a useless.

ah i am not telling that you must get marry - i am not having any opinion - but i am only gave example.

[vikram_ultimate]

Hi howzat sir

Does 'nt this mean that prarabdha karma can be altered by the behaviour of the soul then?


Vikram

[howzat]

by vikram_ultimate » 26 Feb 2013 10:53
Does 'nt this mean that prarabdha karma can be altered by the behaviour of the soul then?

why not? yes.

[2002diksha]

sir,
Sorry fro interrupting the post. I have a chart where the lord of seventh is debilitated and the lord of fifth is also debilitated but the person is happily married with a seven year old girl child.the person is very happy and satisfied in her married life.So my advice is do not worry.
regards

[astrokmr]

@2002diksha

Thanks for your views.

@howzat,
I have few questions

a) Would you consider Jupiter & Mercury as debilated in girls chart?. Jupiter is beyond 5 degress in capricorn & mercury is beyond 15 degress so debilitation wont apply. Am i correct?

b) What about the saturn dasa that follows after jupiter dasa. Saturn being lord of 12th house. How will be its effect? beneficial or mixed or

c) Both of us will be running sade sati & astama sani within another 1 year. Should we need to conisder this?

The reason for asking these many questions is that I have some expectations from my life partner . I expect her to be very caring and have helping tendency. I have spent all the past 10 years alone. I hope with Gods blessings I will be able to spend atleast a part of the rest of the life happily. For our family she will be a God-send since its been many years since the last auspicious event has happened. So everybody is very eagerly waiting for this occasion.

Had my astrologer okayed I would not have met this much astrologers. He didn,t okay the chart but still I was interested [and didn't want to blindly accept his arguments] and thats the reason for cosulting more astrologers.

@howzat

Expecting your reply

[K.R.Mani]

sir,
Sorry fro interrupting the post. I have a chart where the lord of seventh is debilitated and the lord of fifth is also debilitated but the person is happily married with a seven year old girl child.the person is very happy and satisfied in her married life.So my advice is do not worry.
regards

To
2002diksha,

Pl post birth data and pl check if there is any cancellation of the debilitation of lord of 7th and lord of 5th.

[2002diksha]

kr mani ji,
The chart is good friend of mine. I dont think she would like if her birth data is posted on this forum.
regards

[howzat]

simple i will ask. this lady is having PHD ah? how she is getting if Budha and Guru is debilitated? LL and 4L debilitated - 7and 10 Debilitated. normal we are taking whole rasi as debilitation sign. correct no. so here both are debilitated no? if we are taking degree and telling after deep debilitation point no debilitation is there means then how we can tell her sun is exalted means? it is not a correct. first you tell what she doing and all then we will see. so only from start i am telling simple debilitation is there means dont put horoscope is kachara dabba. see properly and tell means.

[astrokmr]

simple i will ask. this lady is having PHD ah? .

Yes. She has completed Ph.D.