Is destiny really predestined?...Fate Vs Freewill

[rehr]

Hi rehr,

I don't remember much birth chart as I saw it only one time. I only remember if Lagna is in 11th house and unafflicted by malefics, then a native has atleast elder sibling for sure. Since the planet was male, I correctly guessed it would be an elder brother.

Thanks Deeps.

[deeps]

When I saw the video, which is a promotional one, I got to see an interesting phrase there, within the first few seconds: “Break Free”—yes, it’s what a spiritual person wants to do: break free. So again, I found a great spiritual message there, though I don't know if that's what it's supposed to mean in the song.

Now, when you see the video of the song, you see a girl dancing like crazy. Her character is of a shy, conservative person, who after having a shot of a strong alcohol has forgotten her worldly personality and is in a world of her own, full of bliss and ecstasy. It's like, she has finally got over the restrictions that her personality has put on her nature, and she has broken free, that is, connected with her soul. It's what you will feel if you think spiritually, but if you think like a worldly person, she is dancing and enjoying her drunkenness after taking a shot of alcohol.

Hi Yellow,

I have not seen the full promo of the movie cocktail. I think the story may be loosely based on the original movie Cocktail of Tom Crusie.

The description that you gave of the girl is unfit for comparing the true ecstasies experienced by truly liberated souls. Alochol and drugs give only temporary liberation and the effects are really damaging to the health in the long term.

I understand from your post that you are really looking for a world without any retsrictions but sadly you know very well that permanent happiness will never be found on this earth.

However, i agree with you that leading a desireless life is a key to happiness. However, even such people will never experience 100% freewill except singing or reading spiritual songs or books. What freewill they will use if they have don't have desires.

[deeps]

This is one of those lines, which talks about free will, but of a different kind. We always associate the word "free will" with loads of efforts to get our desires fulfilled, to run like a cheetah after our desires, to be a slave of our senses completely, but this line suggests something else: it says, run away from your desires, and they will run after you, but the moment you run after your desires, they will run away from you. This is something I have always believed and always said to many people. I don't know how this idea came to me in the first place, whether I read it somewhere or heard of it somewhere, but it was with me since a long long time. Then recently, I got to read the above quoted line said by the very great Swami Vivekananda, and I got some authoritative approval to my belief.

I will be running away from the desire of meeting my Amir Khan and Hope he runs after me and fall at my feet.

Joke apart. There is something truth in what you wrote. The more I ran away from fame in 2004 to 2006, the more it followed me. I never expected such kind of anything in my life. However, what we run after does, we get that thing though. It is all destiny, though.

[basab14]

Hi Yellow,

I have not seen the full promo of the movie cocktail. I think the story may be loosely based on the original movie Cocktail of Tom Crusie.

The description that you gave of the girl is unfit for comparing the true ecstasies experienced by truly liberated souls. Alochol and drugs give only temporary liberation and the effects are really damaging to the health in the long term.

I understand from your post that you are really looking for a world without any retsrictions but sadly you know very well that permanent happiness will never be found on this earth.

However, i agree with you that leading a desireless life is a key to happiness. However, even such people will never experience 100% freewill except singing or reading spiritual songs or books. What freewill they will use if they have don't have desires.

Deeps,

I have not seen the English movie "Cocktail", as I don't watch much English movies, so not sure about the story of the Hindi movie, "Cocktail", which you say is similar to the English one, but it seems to me like a love triangle from what I could understand from the promo. It will be a nice movie I think.

You didn't get the essence of my post at all. I am in no way comparing the high of a drunken girl to the high of spiritual ecstasy felt by a truly spiritual person. I know alcohol and drugs give a temporary feeling of bliss, and it's damaging for the person's health--by the way, I don't drink alcohol or take drugs--but here I am not talking about that at all. What I am saying is, when I watched the video and saw the girl dancing in happiness, I saw it from a spiritual perspective and not from a worldly one.

What I meant then was, you can see the same thing from many different angles. You saw the girl in the drunken state, I saw the girl in spiritual bliss. Always remember one thing, Deeps, we see in others what is there in ourselves. If you are pure inside, you will never find impurity in others. I try to find spirituality in everything, and maybe that is why I found spirituality there, unlike you, who are materialistic to the core.

Everyone wishes for a world without restrictions, Deeps. That's the deep yearning of each and every soul. We rebel against nature, always, and that is where the concept of free will comes in, but as long as we are part of nature, as long as we identify ourselves with our body, we can never get over restrictions that life brings on us. We are bound by our love for our duties and our attachments and our greed and lust for the sensory pleasures of life, and unless we go beyond them, we can never find true freedom, which we are seeking. When I saw that girl dancing in a drunk state, I felt, she was free at that moment and, it really made an impact on me, believe me.

Yes, leading a desireless life is the key to happiness. If you have desires, you can never be happy because the moment one desire gets fulfilled, another comes up in your mind and makes you cry for it. Truly has it been said that true happiness is in hopelessness, and misery is in having hope.

Coming to singing songs of god and reading spiritual books, well, I agree that alone can never give one salvation and can't make a person spiritual. Spirituality is a way of living, not a theory to understand and discuss, but as is said that there is a stepping stone to everything, so there is something like that for spirituality, too, and that is, reading spiritual books and hearing religious songs, which slowly grows in us the desire to become spiritual if not make us spiritual.

[basab14]

You are welcome, Mahesh.

Yellow and deeps,

Thanks for info

[deeps]

Yellow,

I have not seen the English movie "Cocktail", as I don't watch much English movies, so not sure about the story of the Hindi movie, "Cocktail", which you say is similar to the English one, but it seems to me like a love triangle from what I could understand from the promo. It will be a nice movie I think.

I never said in my earlier post that it is similar to the other Cocktail movie. I only said it is a possibility.

You didn't get the essence of my post at all. I am in no way comparing the high of a drunken girl to the high of spiritual ecstasy felt by a truly spiritual person. I know alcohol and drugs give a temporary feeling of bliss, and it's damaging for the person's health--by the way, I don't drink alcohol or take drugs--but here I am not talking about that at all. What I am saying is, when I watched the video and saw the girl dancing in happiness, I saw it from a spiritual perspective and not from a worldly one.

What I meant then was, you can see the same thing from many different angles. You saw the girl in the drunken state, I saw the girl in spiritual bliss. Always remember one thing, Deeps, we see in others what is there in ourselves. If you are pure inside, you will never find impurity in others. I try to find spirituality in everything, and maybe that is why I found spirituality there, unlike you, who are materialistic to the core.

Yes I agree with you completely that we can see the same thing from many different angles. But I am shocked as to how you can see it from the spirituality point of angle. It is indeed amazing that you found spiritual bliss in her. If I demonstrate what is true esctasy to would-be monks by showing the same scene, I will be soon kicked out.

[deeps]

Hi all,

Here is another chart of my cousin from edmonton-

Libra Lagna

Venus in 11th house.

Saturn in 1st house

Jupiter in 2nd house.

Sun Mercury, Mars and Moon, Rahu in 9th house.

To Rehr-

Lagnesh in 11th house and unafflicted- He has an only elder brother. Note the male sign Leo, Sun placed in 9th house. Venus is somewhat afflicted due to in leo sign.

[deeps]

He consulted me in late 2010 and asked about whether he will go foreign country. He is working in IT sector at good post. He was born in Edmonton but raised in India. To him, India is a foreign country.

I looked at his chart and he was running Mercury main period. Sun atardasha was to start around jul'11.

Since both mercury and sun are placed in 9th house of long foreign travel, I told him that between Jun'11 to Jul'12, he would be getting opportunities to go abroad. He did went to UK for 2 weeks around aug'11 and later went on a long tour again to the same country, around november, and returned back to India in Jun'12. This is another clear example of destiny pre-written.

[deeps]

If we look at the transits at that time, double transit, of jupiter and Saturn, was on 12th house of foreign and 7th house of foreign till May'12. However, double transit on 7th house did not give him marriage but I don't know how he spent the time in UK for months.

[basab14]

But I am shocked as to how you can see it from the spirituality point of angle. It is indeed amazing that you found spiritual bliss in her. If I deomstrate what is true esctasy to would-be monks by showing the same scene, I will be soon kicked out.

Well man, don't take it in the wrong sense. I wrote what I felt, and I really felt it! I guess, I shouldn't have written it here because people will never understand the essence of it. I never said that it is spiritual ecstasy, and I know it has nothing to do with spirituality, but sometimes when you see something, you connect it to something else, and those two things maybe connected by a fine thread of reasoning, which only you can see and understand, not others. As I said before, when I heard that line in the song “jag mujhpe lagaye pavandi, mein hoon hi nehi iss duniya ki" (this world is putting restrictions on me, but I am not of this world), and saw the video along with that, I thought to myself that she is in an ecstasy all right. It felt in that scene that she has broken off with everything worldly and was one with her soul, something that one experiences in spirituality. Believe me in that instance the girl is not in the world, not a part of it--she is far beyond everything. I agree that the means of reaching it was not the right one, but she reached that state of bliss all right.

[chota bheem]

but this line suggests something else: it says, run away from your desires, and they will run after you,

Yellow,

Is it the right interpertation. Running away is escapism or another strong desire isnt it. I think swami ji said "dont care for it" which may mean that dont get disturb by lossing or dont get excited by getting. The understanding that nothing is permanent.

What do you mean by slave of senses? please enlighten me.

Nice to see your urge for spirituality which is shown from the fact that you can find spirituality in everything. All the best "seeker"

[rehr]

To Rehr-

Lagnesh in 11th house and unafflicted- He has an only elder brother. Note the male sign Leo, Sun placed in 9th house. Venus is somewhat afflicted due to in leo sign.

Thanks Deeps for sharing this info,. I have a chart where LL is placed in 11th house but afflicted by Saturn. The native is eldest in the family. I think we need to see several charts to test this.

[deeps]

Hi rehr,

what is the lagna for the person which you are talking about?

[rehr]

He was born in Edmonton but raised in India. To him, India is a foreign country.

I looked at his chart and he was running Mercury main period. Sun atardasha was to start around jul'11.

Since both mercury and sun are placed in 9th house of long foreign travel, I told him that between Jun'11 to Jul'12, he would be getting opportunities to go abroad. He did went to UK for 2 weeks around aug'11 and later went on a long tour again to the same country, around november, and returned back to India in Jun'12. This is another clear example of destiny pre-written.

So he is still in foreign..

[deeps]

Yes, you are right, he is still in foreign as India is a foreign country to him.

[rehr]

Hi rehr,

what is the lagna for the person which you are talking about?

Deeps, Saggi Lagna, LL Jupiter in Libra in 11th house aspected by Saturn and 11lord Venus in 10th house with Mercury.

[deeps]

Deeps, Saggi Lagna, LL Jupiter in Libra in 11th house aspected by Saturn and 11lord Venus in 10th house with Mercury.

Has there been any abortion before he was born?

[rehr]

Deeps, Saggi Lagna, LL Jupiter in Libra in 11th house aspected by Saturn and 11lord Venus in 10th house with Mercury.

Has there been any abortion before he was born?

Will have to check, will let you know tonight.

[basab14]

Deeps,

I think it's impossible to believe that lagna lord in the 11th house will give an elder sibling in every single instance. I think it may not be so, always because there are always exceptions to rules.

[basab14]

Now, I would like to talk about the power of desire. We all wish for things in life, and sometimes, we get what we want, and at other times we don’t get what we want. It’s seen a lot of times that when the desire for something is very strong in us, we end up getting that thing—maybe not immediately, but sometime later. We may start to wonder that why it is that some of our desires get fulfilled, while others don’t. Is it something to do with the intensity that is there behind the desire—that if the desire is intense, we end up getting it, and if not so, we don’t get it? It maybe is so, but I am not sure about it. But this is true I have heard that our desires make our future destiny. It’s our desires that make us take birth again, and again, to get them fulfilled. If I want to be a film star, but I can’t be that in this life, I will definitely be born with a destiny to be a film star in some future life of mine. Same goes with all other desires of ours. Same way, what we are today is the result of what we had wished to be sometime in our previous life. That’s how it goes. So the deep desire to get salvation and detaching ourselves from our material wishes to achieve that slowly gets us out of the cycle of birth and rebirth as it goes on as long as we have material desires in us.

Telepathy is an example of this theory of the power of desire working in our lives: we think deeply about someone, and that person contacts us that very moment or sometime soon—it’s said that our desire to contact the person makes the person contact us. These things make us start wondering if it’s all predestined, or free will is something, which we all have, and which we all exercise from time to time.

Now, the believers of predestined destiny says that this desire for things is also not in our hands—our thoughts, our desires are actually in control of God, and we think as He wants us to think. So the debate will continue as to whether destiny is fully predestined, or there is a scope for exercising our free will.

Now, there's another point I would like to add in here, and that is God's grace. Sometimes, when we deeply pray to God for something, we end up getting it. It's not just like that that the temples everywhere remains crowded all the time, with people going there to pray to God and ask for fulfilment of their wishes or solving of some problem, which is bothering them a lot. It must be that these people, who have their faith in God has got the reward for that faith, too.

Sometimes, it also happens like this that when we are in a crisis and we call God for help, He comes to the rescue. Is that predestined too that we will pray to God and God will help us get over a crisis or help in fulfilling our wishes? It maybe is so, because we see a lot of times that our prayers to God, sometimes doesn't bring any result—the help from God doesn't come. So can that mean that He is partial? No, whatever it is, we can be free of doubt that God is not partial—it is impossible to even think that He can be partial. So why is it that some people get His help, and some don't? Does it again mean that divine help received by some is also destined, that is, it is a fruit of good karma done in some previous life? I don't know exactly what it is, and I wonder if anyone knows for sure. The mystery has remained and will always remain, different people giving different opinions on it.

[deeps]

Deeps,

I think it's impossible to believe that lagna lord in the 11th house will give an elder sibling in every single instance. I think it may not be so, always because there are always exceptions to rules.

Yes, I agree with you that it is impossible in every single instance. The chart that rehr presented shows afflictions to the 11th lord by being debilitated in 10th house and the markesh aspect of Saturn on 11th house which rules out any elder siblings, etc. I asked abortion because venus has attained neechbhanga due to mercury also there.

The book, that I have, says that lagnesh lord in 11th house can mean help through elder brothers. There are also other factors which tells us how to find out whether a native has younger or elder siblings. I have applied these factors in the charts that I have and had success in 99% cases.

[deeps]

Telepathy is an example of this theory of the power of desire working in our lives: we think deeply about someone, and that person contacts us that very moment or sometime soon—it’s said that our desire to contact the person makes the person contact us. These things make us start wondering if it’s all predestined, or free will is something, which we all have, and which we all exercise from time to time.

Yes I have seen telepathy works but it does not happen all the time. For instance, a person has a break up and he is constantly thinking about her, longing to see her but she never contact him. Here in this case, telepathy won't work. I think and strongly believe that telepathy works only when there is strong attachment in each other.

[deeps]

Sometimes, it also happens like this that when we are in a crisis and we call God for help, He comes to the rescue. Is that predestined too that we will pray to God and God will help us get over a crisis or help in fulfilling our wishes? It maybe is so, because we see a lot of times that our prayers to God, sometimes doesn't bring any result—the help from God doesn't come. So can that mean that He is partial? No, whatever it is, we can be free of doubt that God is not partial—it is impossible to even think that He can be partial. So why is it that some people get His help, and some don't? Does it again mean that divine help received by some is also destined, that is, it is a fruit of good karma done in some previous life? I don't know exactly what it is, and I wonder if anyone knows for sure. The mystery has remained and will always remain, different people giving different opinions on it.

A very interesting observation made by you. It is a mystery why God helps some and others not. I think the best way to answer it is from Bhagvad Gita and you may be having the qoute also with you. It said that God protects and takes care of those who take shelter in Him. Here a person who surrenders himself to God has no ego with Him. It is just like having a Godfather in a company. The more we butter our Godfather, the more he takes care of our needs.

[basab14]

Yes, I agree with you that it is impossible in every single instance. The chart that rehr presented shows afflictions to the 11th lord by being debilitated in 10th house and the markesh aspect of Saturn on 11th house which rules out any elder siblings, etc. I asked abortion because venus has attained neechbhanga due to mercury also there.

The book, that I have, says that lagnesh lord in 11th house can mean help through elder brothers. There are also other factors which tells us how to find out whether a native has younger or elder siblings. I have applied these factors in the charts that I have and had success in 99% cases.

Yes, all factors need to be considered as you have rightly said--just checking the placement of lagna lord in the 11th house won't give the correct picture. The strength of the 11th lord is to be seen as you have considered in the chart, you have written about.

I am glad to hear that you have had success in 99% cases. It's a remarkable success rate, achieved by very few astrologers.

[basab14]

Yes I have seen telepathy works but it does not happen all the time. For instance, a person has a break up and he is constantly thinking about her, longing to see her but she never contact him. Here in this case, telepathy won't work. I think and strongly believe that telepathy works only when there is strong attachment in each other.

Yes, telepathy doesn't work always as firstly the thinking has to be deep, and secondly, there has to be a connection between the two as you have rightly stated. If I think day and night about a movie star, who doesn’t know me personally, she will not try to contact me ever, but it can be like this that one day I meet her because of the strength of my desire.

Coming to the example you have given of a guy remembering the girl he loved after breakup has happened, and the girl not replying back, well, here, ego comes in, so even the girl maybe is thinking about the guy at that very moment, she decides against contacting him as a breakup has already happened between them.