Is destiny really predestined?...Fate Vs Freewill

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rehr
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deeps wrote: One case-

Meen Lagna.

Saturn and MOON in 7th house.

Jupiter and Mars in 8th house.

Sun and Mercury in 6th house.

Venus in 5th house.

Ketu in 10th house.

Current running period- Rahu/venus.

He is earning very handsome and even got raise few days back. He had a breaks in job though last year. Got the job this jan'12 (my prediction came true). His father has been with me always for the past 3 years. Despite having very handsome and attractive body figure, his father failed to get any reliable match.

what's your take? Will Lord Saturn will finally grant his parent's only wish?
Deeps

Was the break in career in his Ketu period?
rehr
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Yellow wrote:Jedgis,

Go to a mother, who has delivered a defective child and tell her, she has free will! Go to a child, who has lost her parents and tell her, she has free will! Go to a husband, who has lost his wife and tell him, he has free will! Go to a woman, who has been raped and tell her, she has free will! It is destiny! they will shout back at you. Go to people, who have faced pain in life, failures in life and ask them, whether they believe in free will or not. They will tell you free will is an illusion. There is only destiny--only destiny!

!
Agree, we can not change the prarabdha but our whole chart is not only the destiny/result of prarabdha. There wouldn't have been different types of karmas if one had only one-to-one mapping (of free actions to destiny in next birth) .

Everyone has free will but it varies with everyone in different areas of life and same with destiny/prarabdha too. One may have fixed destiny in one area of life and may be given free will in different area of life. The affliction of planets may give some indications.
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chota bheem
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deeps wrote:
That is the best way you have choosen. Keep "questioning yourself" till you find out the answer. I am still questioning myelf, "pehley murgi aayi ya annda".
Hi bheem,

Yes, questioning is the first step to seek final answers. One should never stop questioning.

Anyway, what is your view on destiny and freewill?

Hi deeps,

I dont like going so "deep" when i get an idea that the depth is endless and can never be explained or reached.
End of every quest is "stop questioning".
My views are simple, I believe in both destiny and freewill just like i believe in existence of both murgi and aanda :wink:. why to fight and waste time in knowing about who exist or who came first :) . Its always neither or both. sometimes power of freewill is in your destiny and sometimes your free will makes your destiny.

CB
deeps

Well, for a large part of my life, till I spent most of my Rahu Mahadasha, I was not interested in astrology, didn't know about it and didn't care about it. I was also almost non-religious. I firmly believed that we all can chart our own destiny, without any external help.

In Rahu-Sun I went through the worst phase of Rahu Mahadasha and my entire world turned upside down. I was in a very bad state for more than a year. I lost all that I had.

this was the time I began to seek astrologers, get my chart read and also learn astrology on my own. this was the kind of state in which one looks for some supernatural support. Because things happened suddenly with me, quite unexpectedly, completely contrary to natural logic.

I no longer felt I could steer my life on my own and hence, began to go into astrology.

As I learnt to read my chart better - and also other people's chart - gradually I understood the pattern chalked out in my and other people's charts.

I could explain the life's happenings - especially the sudden and unexplained ones - with the help of astrology.

However, I must acknowledge that my interest in astrology grew only because I faced severe problems. If ever I begin to live a comfortable, non-problematic life, I can't promise that I will stick to astrology then, because my natural tendency is to believe in free will. (Perhaps this will surprise people here, but this is true.)

However, so far I feel astrology gives an anchor to those who are suffering, who can't explain the events of their lives with rational logic. I am particularly prone to sudden, unexpected, illogical adversities in life, which I can explain only through astrology.

Whether astrological predictions can be modified by planning, actions, remedies and mental control and how much they can be modified have been issues for debate for ages and perhaps will always remain so.

I am still experimenting by finding more and more combinations of remedies and seeing if and how much they help in changing the course of destiny.

So far I have seen that one gets a correct reading and correct remedies only when it's time for the person to experience improvements in life. When the time is not ripe, the person doesn't get remedies, is not able to practise them, or faces obstacles while practising them.

People who practise remedies can come back and report whether remedies are helping them. Then we’ll know whether and how much the reading of the chart can be influenced by remedies.

Those who don't believe in religiosity and astrology are perhaps destined to live that way.

On the other hand, if one has a strong mind - which means a mind that doesn't get affected by adversity, doesn't feel emotions, doesn't feel any sense of loss - then perhaps one will not need astrology.

But such people are very few in the world and perhaps they are not human.
Hi Saindhavi ji,

Many thanks for sharing your views.

This is exactly what happened with me at the fag end of Rahu mahadasha. Everything I had was snatched away without giving any prior notice. I could not and still cannot believe it. No proper logic!!! It just happened.

My interest for astrology too grew at that time though it took serious shape in Guru period. I heard that Rahu takes away all as the mahadasha comes to an end.
On the other hand, if one has a strong mind - which means a mind that doesn't get affected by adversity, doesn't feel emotions, doesn't feel any sense of loss - then perhaps one will not need astrology.
I completely agree with you on this.
deeps

I can understand what you are saying about them not getting married. I know of quite a few people who have faced the same problem, but ask them to not lose hope because destiny defies logic. Let me tell you why I say this. Just a couple of days back destiny proved once more to me why it defies logic a lot of times.

When a person crosses mid-thirties, we give up hope on the person getting married, but what will you say when you hear of a person who is 50 years old got married recently and my father attended that wedding. He said the girl is around 40 years old.

A couple of my relatives got married around 40 years age--both male though. I remember hearing about a 40 year old lady getting married.

Coming to career, I know of someone, who started his career at the age of 40, and that too a brilliant career. He worked in American Embassy, and it was a very dignified job, which gave him very high contacts.

Coming to the chart of the person you shared, well, he is not running a good period even now, though I will say that Rahu-Venus can give him marriage as both signifies marriage. Saturn in the 7th house now, and Jupiter aspecting the 7th house, too. The effect of the double transit stays for some time so even if Saturn moves, the marriage can happen some time after that.

Anyone, over 40 years coming to me for the question on his/her marriage, I will simply say believe in God or wait for the next life. :)

It was really inspiring to see so many got what they want very late in life. You know is there any astrological reasons for the same?

Yes, i have given the same prediction as yours to his father.. I am still keeping my fingers crossed. :?
deeps

Deeps

Was the break in career in his Ketu period?
Yes rehr ji, you are absolutely right.

He had a career break in Ketu period of 10th house. In fact, it was the worst period for him. His health even brokedown and his fever lasted for 3 to 4 months.
deeps

Deeps,

See below if it answers your query...This is from Vaughn Paul lessons ..

The Three Levels of Karmic Magnitude

In addition to the four kinds of karma, there are three levels of magnitude to any given karma. Karma can be fixed/strong or non-fixed/weak, or a combination of the two. If the karma is strong then the predetermined event will almost certainly happen. If the karma is weak then it may be relatively easy to avert it. The three levels of magnitude are:

1. Fixed karma (Dridha) – This is karma that cannot be changed by any effort on our part. Only the grace of God can alter fixed karma (Dridha).
2. Mixed karma (Dridha/Adridha) – This is karma that can be changed but only with substantial effort.
3. Non-Fixed karma (Adridha) – This is karma that can be easily changed with some effort.

See this link below , when i was very much in to learning astro i came across it and even ought lessons from Vaughn Paul..See i your satisfied??

My simple contribution...

http://www.astrologyforthesoul.com/vedi ... rinter.htm
Hi jegdis,

Thanks for posting the link. I have too read many theoreticals. Here I am concentrating on practicality. Hope you are getting my point.

I am qouting what the Yogis said-

Here’s a quote of a modern seer and proponent of Dvaita and free will, Paramahansa Yogananda:

“ Occasionally I told astrologers to select my worse periods, according to planetary indications, and I would still accomplish whatever task I would set for myself. It is true that my success at such times has been preceded by extraordinary difficulties. But my conviction has always been justified: faith in divine protection, and right use of man’s God-given will, are forces more formidable than are influences flowing from the heavens.”

Here’s a quote of another modern seer and proponent of Advaita and fate, Ramana Maharshi:

“ The ordainer controls the fate of souls in accordance with their prarabdha karma. Whatever is destined not to happen will not happen, try as you may. Whatever is destined to happen will happen, do what you may to prevent it. This is certain. The best course, therefore, is to remain silent."



I have read Yogananda's book and in the book itself, he has mentioned or talked about predictions coming true. What was foretold by His seers of him came true. Yes, i accept that he always preached about freewill but I still believe he was very biased and did not want to reveal the truth to masses on destiny, as I said earlier, destiny is a very sensitive issue.

I would like to ask a simple question- tell me how do you know that you are doing a new karma for future life?
rehr
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deeps wrote:
Deeps

Was the break in career in his Ketu period?
Yes rehr ji, you are absolutely right.

He had a career break in Ketu period of 10th house. In fact, it was the worst period for him. His health even brokedown and his fever lasted for 3 to 4 months.
Thanks deeps for the information. Yes his health also shows issues in ketu AD as the dispositor Jupiter who is also LL not placed well.. What is his/her age in case you'd like to share?
deeps

This lad is 29 years old.
basab14
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rehr wrote:Agree, we can not change the prarabdha but our whole chart is not only the destiny/result of prarabdha. There wouldn't have been different types of karmas if one had only one-to-one mapping (of free actions to destiny in next birth) .

Everyone has free will but it varies with everyone in different areas of life and same with destiny/prarabdha too. One may have fixed destiny in one area of life and may be given free will in different area of life. The affliction of planets may give some indications.
Rehr,

What you are saying makes perfect sense, but it's just what I read about the great saints saying, which makes me wonder if we have any free will in our hand. I would like to quote a few lines said by great saints, and you tell me whether I should believe what I believe in, or believe what you are saying, which is completely justified I understand, but if so, then why the saints didn't agree with it.

"Do your duties in the world as if you were the doer, but knowing all the time that God alone is the Doer and you are the instrument." -- Sri Ramakrishna

'Those who have realized God are aware that free will is a mere appearance. In reality man is the machine and God its Operator, man is the carriage and God its Driver.' -- Sri Ramakrishna

'It is all decided beforehand by God what each one shall receive.' -- Sri Ramakrishna

'Whatever belongs to a man he will get. It was ready for him before he was born.' -- Swami Vivekananda
"Go thou and follow Him, who was born and gave His life for others five hundred times before He attained the vision of the Buddha!" -- Swami Vivekananda
basab14
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deeps wrote:I would like to ask a simple question- tell me how do you know that you are doing a new karma for future life?
Very good question, Deeps. I have read it being said that no one knows how the law of karma works... it's an enigma to the most learned saints even.
Last edited by basab14 on 03 Jul 2012, edited 1 time in total.
"Go thou and follow Him, who was born and gave His life for others five hundred times before He attained the vision of the Buddha!" -- Swami Vivekananda
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deeps wrote:I have read Yogananda's book and in the book itself, he has mentioned or talked about predictions coming true. What was foretold by His seers of him came true. Yes, i accept that he always preached about freewill but I still believe he was very biased and did not want to reveal the truth to masses on destiny, as I said earlier, destiny is a very sensitive issue.
I agree with you here, Deeps. I have read his autobiography, and there he gave more examples of predestined destiny than of free will. One example I would like to quote here from the book as it is very much stunning. There are more though, which one can know if one reads the book.

Quoting from Chapter 21 "We Visit Kashmir" of the book: "Autobiography of a Yogi": http://www.crystalclarity.com/yogananda/chap21.php

'"English strawberries for sale," cried an old woman, squatting in a picturesque open market place.
Master was curious about the strange little red fruits. He bought a basketful and offered it to Kanai and myself, who were near-by. I tasted one berry but spat it hastily on the ground.
"Sir, what a sour fruit! I could never like strawberries!"
My guru laughed. "Oh, you will like themin America. At a dinner there, your hostess will serve them with sugar and cream. After she has mashed the berries with a fork, you will taste them and say: 'What delicious strawberries!' Then you will remember this day in Simla."
Sri Yukteswar's forecast vanished from my mind, but reappeared there many years later, shortly after my arrival in America. I was a dinner guest at the home of Mrs. Alice T. Hasey (Sister Yogmata) in West Somerville, Massachusetts. When a dessert of strawberries was put on the table, my hostess picked up her fork and mashed my berries, adding cream and sugar. "The fruit is rather tart; I think you will like it fixed this way," she remarked.
I took a mouthful. "What delicious strawberries!" I exclaimed. At once my guru's prediction in Simla emerged from the fathomless cave of memory. It was staggering to realize that long ago Sri Yukteswar's God-tuned mind had sensitively detected the program of karmic events wandering in the ether of futurity.'

If the time and the circumstance when one will have strawberries is also predestined, what is in our hands then?
Last edited by basab14 on 03 Jul 2012, edited 1 time in total.
"Go thou and follow Him, who was born and gave His life for others five hundred times before He attained the vision of the Buddha!" -- Swami Vivekananda
basab14
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Let me quote some lines from "Bhagavad Gita" talking about predestined destiny:

http://www.asitis.com/11/32.html
"The Blessed Lord said: Time I am, destroyer of the worlds, and I have come to engage all people. With the exception of you [the Pandavas], all the soldiers here on both sides will be slain."

http://www.asitis.com/11/33.html
"Therefore get up and prepare to fight. After conquering your enemies you will enjoy a flourishing kingdom. They are already put to death by My arrangement, and you, O Savyasaci, can be but an instrument in the fight."

http://www.asitis.com/11/34.html
"The Blessed Lord said: All the great warriors--Drona, Bhisma, Jayadratha, Karna--are already destroyed. Simply fight, and you will vanquish your enemies."
"Go thou and follow Him, who was born and gave His life for others five hundred times before He attained the vision of the Buddha!" -- Swami Vivekananda
basab14
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deeps wrote:It was really inspiring to see so many got what they want very late in life. You know is there any astrological reasons for the same?
I don't have their charts so can't tell the astrological reasons.
"Go thou and follow Him, who was born and gave His life for others five hundred times before He attained the vision of the Buddha!" -- Swami Vivekananda
deeps

Quoting from Chapter 21 "We Visit Kashmir" of the book: "Autobiography of a Yogi": http://www.crystalclarity.com/yogananda/chap21.php

'"English strawberries for sale," cried an old woman, squatting in a picturesque open market place.
Master was curious about the strange little red fruits. He bought a basketful and offered it to Kanai and myself, who were near-by. I tasted one berry but spat it hastily on the ground.
"Sir, what a sour fruit! I could never like strawberries!"
My guru laughed. "Oh, you will like themin America. At a dinner there, your hostess will serve them with sugar and cream. After she has mashed the berries with a fork, you will taste them and say: 'What delicious strawberries!' Then you will remember this day in Simla."
Sri Yukteswar's forecast vanished from my mind, but reappeared there many years later, shortly after my arrival in America. I was a dinner guest at the home of Mrs. Alice T. Hasey (Sister Yogmata) in West Somerville, Massachusetts. When a dessert of strawberries was put on the table, my hostess picked up her fork and mashed my berries, adding cream and sugar. "The fruit is rather tart; I think you will like it fixed this way," she remarked.
I took a mouthful. "What delicious strawberries!" I exclaimed. At once my guru's prediction in Simla emerged from the fathomless cave of memory. It was staggering to realize that long ago Sri Yukteswar's God-tuned mind had sensitively detected the program of karmic events wandering in the ether of futurity.'
Thankyou very much for quoting it here which I was about to do that. :D
deeps

Here is another chart of a guy who is not married, despite his parents putting in much efforts-

Virgo Lagna

Saturn in lagna.

exalted Venus in 7th house

Sun, Mercury & ketu in 6th house.

Guru. Mars and Rahu in 12th house.

Moon in 8th house.

running moon dasha.
basab14
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7th lord afflicted and badly placed can be the reason for the delay in the marriage for the perso,n whose planetary placements you have mentioned here. Saturn aspecting the 7th house and Venus can also be the reason for delay. Moon dasha is not that favourable as Moon is in the 8th house in the chart.
"Go thou and follow Him, who was born and gave His life for others five hundred times before He attained the vision of the Buddha!" -- Swami Vivekananda
rehr
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Yellow wrote: Rehr,

What you are saying makes perfect sense, but it's just what I read about the great saints saying, which makes me wonder if we have any free will in our hand. I would like to quote a few lines said by great saints, and you tell me whether I should believe what I believe in, or believe what you are saying, which is completely justified I understand, but if so, then why the saints didn't agree with it.
Yellow, it was just my view for destiny vs freewill and I dont say that you believe it. You can prefer to have your own.

Anyway thanks for sharing your views also.
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Rehr,

You got me wrong. I am confused about what to believe or not believe. What you have said makes perfect sense. We have to create new karma some day to get the fruits of it later. So I perfectly agree with your belief, and what the saints have said is not making sense, as they are not keeping the option of creating new karma open to us, or it can be this that we are not understanding what they meant by what they said--they can't be wrong after all.
Last edited by basab14 on 03 Jul 2012, edited 1 time in total.
"Go thou and follow Him, who was born and gave His life for others five hundred times before He attained the vision of the Buddha!" -- Swami Vivekananda
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Yellow wrote:Rehr,

You got me wrong. I am confused about what to believe or not believe. What you have said makes perfect sense. We have to create new karma some day to get the fruits of it later. So I perfectly agree with your belief, and what the saints have said is not making sense, as they are not keeping the option of creating new karma open to use, or it can be this that we are not understanding what they meant by what they said--they can't be wrong after all.
Yellow,

The saying of saint no doubt should have real meaning but to know them better, we need to become a saint :).
Yellow wrote: as they are not keeping the option of creating new karma open to use,
This must be because they must have seen the results of those new karmas and would have understood why they were not meaningful finally. We are living in a practical world where reacting to others or to situations become inevitable. IMO, our chart is the summation of all types of karmas i.e fixed and changeable where there is a scope of new karmas too. So I think how we reacts matters a lot finally in deciding the future birth's destiny. You must be having good knowledge on all these as seen from your interest in spiritual books.
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Deeps,

Thanks for appreciating my post!

Yellow,

My Rahu mahadasha was bad from the beginning. You can read my account of Rahu Mahadasha on Explorings' thread here -

http://www.lightonvedicastrology.com/ph ... &start=450

It's just that I happen to be a good fighter and don't give up till I'm really drowning. So, for most of my Rahu Mahadasha, I faced all the troubles bravely and felt I could manage on my own; I didn't need any God or astrology to help me.

During Rahu-Sun I was completely down in the dumps. It practically forced me to seek astrological and religious help, which in any case I got only in Jupiter Mahadasha.
Havan Manuals -

http://www.lightonvedicastrology.com/phpBB3_0/viewtopic.php?f=11&t=12791&p=124553#p124488

hymns -

1 http://www.vignanam.org/

2 http://www.lightonvedicastrology.com/phpBB3_0/viewtopic.php?f=12&t=11446&start=75#p93038
Humannature

Yellow wrote: Coming to efforts, I don't believe they have any effect, but even then, one should put efforts for one's satisfaction. I really find it amazing when people ask others to take efforts. I feel their success makes them blind to the reality of the world around them--their success makes them feel that everyone can attain success. If that was so, if efforts were directly proportional to success, then there would not be a single person who would fail in life
Yellow,
Very touching post. I started writing something in the similar lines a few days ago and then did a Ctrl A+Del.
What I wanted to write that day was about this kid who sells breakfast n lunch on a thela in front of my office. we comfortably sit in the office while that guy sits outside enduring NY winter n the costal humidity in summer.
Is he a slacker? Is he NOT working hard? How could he have used his freewill to do well in his life? May be he could have worked hard while he was in school, but who knows what his family and financial situation was! May be he was sick, may be he has deb mercury or something which would not allow him to be sharp in school!! May be..may be...ughhh
I think about astrology and freewill almost every morning when I pass by his food truck.
Yellow wrote:
The people who have asked their query there, has one of them bowed to the planets before trying their level best? Wouldn't it be a sin to tell them that it's their free will, which is all powerful?

Go to a mother, who has delivered a defective child and tell her, she has free will! Go to a child, who has lost her parents and tell her, she has free will! Go to a husband, who has lost his wife and tell him, he has free will! Go to a woman, who has been raped and tell her, she has free will! It is destiny! they will shout back at you. Go to people, who have faced pain in life, failures in life and ask them, whether they believe in free will or not. They will tell you free will is an illusion. There is only destiny--only destiny!

Now, who has free will? The person, who has the midas touch: whatever he touches turns to gold: whatever he tries, he finds success in that. That person will never believe in destiny, but in free will because destiny has not shown that person what its power is, that when it takes control, free will just bows down and lick the dust under its feet!
In 'Katie Holmes' post I recently mentioned that somehow only celebrities who are not afraid of the stigma attached to divorce and stuff seem to have freewill while the rest of the common people never seem to have freewill specially in terms of relationships'.
I read and read and read and read even more about freewill till i got confused and lost in everybody's thought process and lost my own identity and what i think is logical for my situation....I wanted to, so badly, know if its really destiny or if freewill really exists..because I wanted to be 100% sure that if i believe it's all destiny and give up and believe that freewill doesn't really exist (at least in big things of life..)to the extent of changing a life path altogether, then that IS really the reality.
Otherwise I will always hate myself for not doing something myself using my freewill instead of giving up thinking its all destiny.
Even now I don't know which is which and what the truth or reality is..
But sometimes you have to make peace with not knowing certain things. You can never find all the answers.
and it is less taxing.
Sometimes I wished people just said that it was predestined and that there was NOTHING i could do or say that could have changed the situation..
As soon as people bring up freewill I used to get restless thinking, "Probably there was or still is something that i could or can do that may still change things"...When the mind becomes restless its the beginning of the end of your sanity..


Bottom line (at least for me) is that each person needs to believe in what keeps them sane.
If you do not want to be let down by a bunch of bad placements and afflictions in your chart, then believe you can move mountains with your perseverance and faith..
But if you are tired of trying everything but only in vain and if you are getting restless and losing your mind thinking what else can you do, then probably there is nothing you can really do but believe that it's all a part of a master plan over which you have no control
Last edited by Humannature on 03 Jul 2012, edited 1 time in total.
deeps

7th lord afflicted and badly placed can be the reason for the delay in the marriage for the perso,n whose planetary placements you have mentioned here. Saturn aspecting the 7th house and Venus can also be the reason for delay. Moon dasha is not that favourable as Moon is in the 8th house in the chart.
7th Lord is badly afflicted in 12th house. Just imagine 7th Lord conjunct with Rahu, Mars. The saving grace can be exalted Venus but since depositor is very weak, I don't think he will have marriage. He is a brilliant guy, IIT background. He also suffered fraud at the hands of a US guide in USA. He got very good job in India after suffering in USA. Now the job wise he is doing fine but I don't think planetary placement will help his further his career in the years to come.

The other limiting factor for him he suffers from a mild leporasy since birth. Seeing the condition of planets in his chart and the limiting factor, I have little hope for him in his marriage. I have seen mild leporasy people married to normal people, this maybe due to good planetary marriage combination.
basab14
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Rehr,

Absolutely agree with you on this: that we have to become saints to understand saints. :D

Coming to your point, yes, I feel, too, that our charts are the summation of different kinds of karma: rigid and flexible. You have made a very interesting point here: that it all depends on how we react to a situation. This is something I have read about, most probably, in the book “Past Lives Future Lives” by Dr Bruce Goldberg. He says, that every moment we find in front of us 9 options (not sure whether it’s 9 exactly), and each of these options will lead us to a different destiny, but we chose that option which is the easiest for us, making our destiny predestined.

So the karmas of our past bring us into a situation, where we choose the easiest way to react, wasting the opportunity to use our new karma in a better way. If we are spiritually wise, we can make good use of this new karma, by reacting in a smart way, but we are very materialistic, and react just by instinct than after a deep thought over the best way to react as you have rightly said.

Coming to spiritual books, yes, I have read a few books, definitely, but then, I feel, life can teach us more than any book can—it’s just we need to have the eyes to see.

Coming to the saints, understanding the futility of our having the chance to use our free will to change our destiny because we react just the way destiny wants us to react, has given the opinion that destiny is predestined as rightly said by you
"Go thou and follow Him, who was born and gave His life for others five hundred times before He attained the vision of the Buddha!" -- Swami Vivekananda
basab14
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humannature wrote:Yellow,
Very touching post. I started writing something in the similar lines a few days ago and then did a Ctrl A+Del.
What I wanted to write that day was about this kid who sells breakfast n lunch on a thela in front of my office. we comfortably sit in the office while that guy sits outside enduring NY winter n the costal humidity in summer.
Is he a slacker? Is he NOT working hard? How could he have used his freewill to do well in his life? May be he could have worked hard while he was in school, but who knows what his family and financial situation was! May be he was sick, may be he has deb mercury or something which would not allow him to be sharp in school!! May be..may be...ughhh
I think about astrology and freewill almost every morning when I pass by his food truck.
Humannature,

Thank you. I am glad to know that you liked my post. Coming to the boy, that’s exactly the point I was making—is the boy not working hard? He is working much, much harder than those guys who work in a comfortable office doing desk job. So what free will has he got? Did he choose his parents; did he choose his environment in his childhood? No, he didn’t. As you rightly said, he was most probably born in a poor family, where the parents couldn’t afford to send him to school. Or let us even imagine that he was sent to school, but he had a dull brain and couldn’t do well in his studies—is that his fault? Was he consulted before choosing what brain he can have? If he puts huge effort, can he make his brain more sharp? And the point is, how much effort he puts, he will not go much far in life, with his free will, unless destiny does a miracle for him, like it has done in many other cases—the rags-to-riches story that we hear about all the time. It’s not the effort in those cases that makes the people successful because efforts don’t take one much far—it’s the miracles that destiny brings in those people’s lives that changes their fate.

Believe me, this very boy you are talking about can become a superstar one day, and his chart gets discussed on this forum, just like Katie Holmes chart got discussed recently. There are stories like that we get to hear about, which makes me believe that if it has happened once, it can happen again, and actually it does happen all the time in this world.

In our Indian movie industry there are a few stars, who rose in life from very humble circumstances, and that was not hard work, but fate because hard work is done by millions in those similar circumstances, and they don’t go an inch forward in life from the position they are in—they sometimes go back a few steps if destiny is harsh on them further.

Taking it from a different angle as you said the boy may have been dull in studies, I always believe it’s not just the circumstances we are born in; it’s also the abilities we are born with, which decides our life. We mock people, who have not faired well in life, but we should realize that everyone has not the same ability. Everyone doesn't have the same intelligence, the same hard working capability. If a boy is dull headed, is it his fault? Everyone doesn't come first in class, so the one who comes first does work, and the others don’t?

Then we all face different circumstances in life, which moulds our personality, accordingly. A person who has lost his son can’t think the same way as a person, who has a son, who loves him a lot. A person who has been bullied all his childhood can’t grow up with a mind frame, which a person, who has been wonderfully treated all his childhood has. So it’s the circumstances, the abilities, which make us what we are.
Last edited by basab14 on 03 Jul 2012, edited 3 times in total.
"Go thou and follow Him, who was born and gave His life for others five hundred times before He attained the vision of the Buddha!" -- Swami Vivekananda
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