A peculiar doubt about Shani - please clarify

[Nora]

Hi all

I've met a bunch of astrologers who are split in their views about the following statement

"In Shani Mahadasha, out of 19 years, Shani gives bad effects for first half (9.5 years) and gives good effects for second half (remaining 9.5 years)"

Some say that first half will be good and the second half will be bad.

I mean these statements seem to be made regardless of Shani's placement in the chart, the houses it owns, or who it's aspected by etc....

I'd appreciate the feedback of experts on this.


Why would many astrologers make such generic statements? Is there any truth to it?

Kind regards

Nora

[astrostar]

"In Shani Mahadasha, out of 19 years, Shani gives bad effects for first half (9.5 years) and gives good effects for second half (remaining 9.5 years)"
Some say that first half will be good and the second half will be bad.
Is there any truth to it?

There is no truth in this statement. A completely 100% false logic.
In fact, any planet, in its dasa, gives good/bad results only according to its house significations.

For e.g. if saturn is a significator of 2,6,10 houses in a chart, then in its entire 19 years dasa, undoubtedly, bestows good career and job to the native.
Now, if suppose Ketu or Sun signifies 5,9 houses, then, only in Saturn-Ketu or Saturn-Sun sub-period, one gets difficulties in job, if and only if, Saturn also signifies 5,9 houses in addition to 2,6,10.

Why would many astrologers make such generic statements?

I don't comment on this.

[Nora]

Thanks astrostar...I had a doubt about that statement that's why I posed the question here...I was kinda annoyed when astrologers kept on saying it...I mean like 3-4 of them whom I met...

And the worse part was there wasn't even a consensus...one would say Saturn is good in first half and another would say just the opposite

Anyways...

I also have another question to you...actually two questions regarding Shani if you can please answer to those...

1. If in rasi chart Shani is in 5th house, but in bhav chalit it moves to the 6th then which house results does it give in its Mahadasha and antardasha?

Correct me if I'm wrong, but bhav chalit etc seems to be a new concept and not mentioned in BPHS? So, should we take traditional approach and say it in this case it'll give 5th house results only?

2. In the case of a moon in gemini, ashtama shani will be in Capricorn (Saturn's own house)...in this case, during the Mahadasha of Saturn will saturn still give very bad results for ashtama bhav or will it be reduced due to it being saturn' own house? I mean Saturn a bit more comfortable there...in this case, the native has venus in that house too who is saturn's friend despite the enigmatic period that they create together...

Looking for your feedback...thanks!

Kind regards

Nora

[astrostar]

1. If in rasi chart Shani is in 5th house, but in bhav chalit it moves to the 6th then which house results does it give in its Mahadasha and antardasha?
Correct me if I'm wrong, but bhav chalit etc seems to be a new concept and not mentioned in BPHS? So, should we take traditional approach and say it in this case it'll give 5th house results only?

'In Rasi chart, Shani is in 5th house.'
There is a mistake in the above statement/sentence.
Must not use the word "house" when we are talking about Sign chart.
The correct statement is - 'In Rasi chart (or in Sign chart), Saturn is in 5th sign.'

'Sign chart' is a different chart from 'bhav chalit chart'.
In bhav chalit, if Saturn moves to the 6th, then, Saturn gives 6th house results
in its mahadasha and antardasha.

2. In the case of a moon in gemini, ashtama shani will be in Capricorn (Saturn's own house)...in this case, during the Mahadasha of Saturn will saturn still give very bad results for ashtama bhav or will it be reduced due to it being saturn' own house? I mean Saturn a bit more comfortable there...in this case, the native has venus in that house too who is saturn's friend despite the enigmatic period that they create together...

Moon, a planet, signifies the inner mental workings, emotions, feelings, etc. So Saturn's uncomfortable 8th position (evil aspect) to natal Moon, anyway, generates some mental disturbances irrespective of any dasa.
However the intensity depends on current running dasa and transit of other planets.

Although, Saturn owns Capricorn, comfortable to Saturn, the aspect is not comfortable to moon.
And, if dasa lord signifies good houses, then, Saturn's negative effects will be reduced.
If the running dasa is of Saturn, then, once, check the significations of Saturn in the chart.
If it signifies 2,3,6,10,11 houses, then, ashtama shani cannot show its evil effects.

Conjunction of Saturn with his friend Venus in Capricorn during transit is a separate study,
which cannot stop dasa effects and/or ashtama shani effects.

[astrostar]

We use to say -
"In Rasi chart, Saturn is in 5th sign"
"in Bhav chart, Saturn is in 6th house"

[astrostar]

For any planet, sign significations are not used/studied first, to determine its benefic/malefic nature.

To start with, we have to consider all house significations of a planet in bhav chart.
Then, we move onto Rasi(sign) chart, to further study/classify its nature of results.

e.g.
if a planet signifies 3,9,12 houses in bhav chart, then, can say, foreign travel.
Next coming to Rasi chart, if that planet is
- in watery sign, then, predict sea travel
- in airy sign, predict air/flight travel
- in earthy sign, predict road/train travel (ex - singapore <--> malaysia)

e.g.
if a planet signifies 6,8,12 houses in bhav chart, then predict problems.
Coming to sign chart, if cruel signs (Aries, Scorpio) are involved, then predict severe problems.

[Spirit Seeker]

Nora
When you talk about Bhaava Chalit chart, kindly note a point, don't choose Ascendant sign at the starting point of 1st house. It is ILLOGICAL! Let's take an example your Ascendant is at 16 degree 36 minutes in Sagittarius. Lagna lord Jupiter is in Moola -1 i.e., at 0 degree 30 minutes, 9th Lord Sun is in Moola-3 (8 degree 3 minutes in Sagittarius) Now, If you choose Ascendant degree as starting point of the 1st house you'll get Jupiter, 9th Lord Sun are in 12th house. Now, you should tell me is it true w.r.t your life events is Jupiter in 12th suits to you? I don't think so it gives 12th house results to you. I'm pretty confident that your Jupiter is in 1st house but NOT IN 12TH HOUSE! Similarly if you choose Ascendant degree at middle of the 1st house (which has got some meaning!) your Jupiter will be in 12th house only! But generally venerated Astrologers take Jupiter is still in 1st house only! Since it gives 1st house results to you!

[Nora]

Dear Astrostar

Thanks a lot for pointing out my mistakes. I appreciate that you've taken time to write these long msgs for my understanding.

So, from my understanding, Saturn will give 6th house results in this case.

You are right that would still create trouble with moon being 8 places away.

Sorry for the dumb question (I'm just learning astrology since a month) when you say "check significations" what do you mean? Do you mean the aspect of Saturn? Where can I access this in Jagannath Hora software. I remember seeing it on KP chart but I'm not sure about what to make of it. Perhaps you could enlighten me in your crisp and concise manner, which you've been doing till now or maybe give me some other reference to read up.

By the way, if you have time, could you please have a look at the following chart?

9 March 1987, 3.15 PM, Chennai.

Now, I've asked some experts on this forum. Some say that parivartana is seen in Navamsa. And that the native will receive donations towards spiritual activities. The native is very spiritual (my Guru). I wana know if she'll be successful in her spiritual endeavours. Do you think people will hear her message?

What will be ashtama shani be like for this native? She seems to have a tough chart for leading the life of a householder. Also has severe asthma. Anyways please give your views if you can and are willing to. Thanks in advance!

Kind regards

Nora











[quote=astrostar post_id=264337 time=1531648005 user_id=18924]
We use to say -
"In Rasi chart, Saturn is in 5th sign"
"in Bhav chart, Saturn is in 6th house"
[/quote]

[hari766]

astrostar

"If it (Saturn) signifies 2,3,6,10,11 houses, then, ashtama shani cannot show its evil effects. "

This is the first time I am hearing of this rule. Is this based on your experience with the charts you have seen, or some scriptural reference? Does this apply to the 7 1/2 year transit of Saturn too?

[astrostar]

Sorry for the dumb question (I'm just learning astrology since a month)

Please, don't mention. I too came from similar situation.

when you say "check significations" what do you mean? Do you mean the aspect of Saturn? Where can I access this in Jagannath Hora software. I remember seeing it on KP chart but I'm not sure about what to make of it. Perhaps you could enlighten me in your crisp and concise manner, which you've been doing till now or maybe give me some other reference to read up.

Jagannath Hora does not give planets' significations.
So, try "Astrosage App" in andriod mobile. Use it to know planets' significations.

if she'll be successful in her spiritual endeavours. Do you think people will hear her message?

Spiritual inclination is there. She will get manthra siddhi. She will be successful in spiritual endeavours. There will not be great public fame as Mars is in 10th house and Venus in 7th is aspected by Saturn.

What will be ashtama shani be like for this native?

As saturn significations are not good, Till Jan, 2022, Ashtam shani effect will be there.
2nd lord Sun is in 8th house. So, will not get much donations.

Regarding Asthma, asc lord Moon is in respiratory sign - Gemini (Lungs), which is 12th house (defect), without beneficial aspects. Ketu is in virgo, 3rd house. 4th lord Venus (chest) is aspected by Saturn(Obstruction).

[astrostar]

"If it (Saturn) signifies 2,3,6,10,11 houses, then, ashtama shani cannot show its evil effects. "

This is the first time I am hearing of this rule. Is this based on your experience with the charts you have seen, or some scriptural reference? Does this apply to the 7 1/2 year transit of Saturn too?

Amitabh Bachchan reached to his highest in his cine art during the Saturn dasa Mercury sub period. During his Saturn Dasa period from 1971 to 1990, by being one of the most influential living actor in India, Amitabh had gained his popularity in the cine world with various credits and awards. Amitabh was also going through his best time in the film industry in his second Sade Sati from 1980 to 1987, In 1980, transit Saturn entered into his natal (birth chart) 8th house, and also it was 12th from Moon, one was ashtam shani from ascendant, and another one was sade sati. Moreover, his Saturn is in retro in his birth chart.

Pandit Jawaharlal Nehru became the first Prime Minister of independent India in 1947 when transit Saturn was passing his Capricorn natal Moon in his second sade sati 1944 to 1950.

Morarji Desai joined the British Govt service as Deputy Collector in 1918 in his first sade sati from 1916 to 1923. He became CM in 2nd sade sati, and became PM in 3rd sade sati.

There were several people, who achieved their goals in ashtam shani from asc/moon, and in sade sati.
In all the above horoscopes, Saturn signified beneficial houses from ascendant.

There is no scriptural reference. Normally, I discover/invent new rules thru practice.
So, Saturn himself proves the statement -
"If Saturn signifies 2,3,6,10,11 houses, then, ashtama shani or sadesati cannot show its evil effects"

[Nora]

Dear Astrostar

1. what about Ruchaka yoga of mars?

2. Mercury is in vipareeta raj yoga? And an astrologer also said if sun is in the 8th (and in this budh Aditya yog is formed) masses can be reached. Of course, this won't be the same mass as in Sasha yoga but still there will be crowd to listen to the native. Dunno how true that Astrologer's words will be.

3. I agree saturn's aspect on venus is there and on 11th as well but somewhere I read that saturn's malefic effects mellows down after one is 35 years. Besides, she is a huge devotee of Hanuman and Shani upasaka. In fact, in one of her discourses she said that both are her sons. So, my point is when there is utmost devotion like this, I'm sure things can go unpredictable (in a good way too)

4. Regarding donations you said 2nd lord sun is in 8th I agree but he is aspecting his own house (end house) won't this guarantee some kind of wealth? Also, some expert in this forum said that parivartana yoga is seen in Navamsa and in Rahu and Guru antaras around 2024-2028 will be the time she'll receive donations from abroad too. Do you not think that this prediction is valid?

5. So if you think that she won't be successful in spiritual career then what kind of a career will she have? She is 31 now and has a medical background and knows several languages. But she kinda renounced everything and full time teaching spiritual and occult things to people, yoga meditation, writes spiritual books now. I'm curious to know if this won't be her profession (if you can please confirm this by seeing her D10 chart) then what will be her profession for the next 50 years?

Kind regards

Nora









[quote=Nora post_id=264348 time=1531656586 user_id=20001]
if she'll be successful in her spiritual endeavours. Do you think people will hear her message?
[/quote]
Spiritual inclination is there. She will get manthra siddhi. She will be successful in spiritual endeavours. There will not be great public fame as Mars is in 10th house and Venus in 7th is aspected by Saturn.

[quote=Nora post_id=264348 time=1531656586 user_id=20001]
What will be ashtama shani be like for this native?
[/quote]
As saturn significations are not good, Till Jan, 2022, Ashtam shani effect will be there.
2nd lord Sun is in 8th house. So, will not get much donations.

Regarding Asthma, asc lord Moon is in respiratory sign - Gemini (Lungs), which is 12th house (defect), without beneficial aspects. Ketu is in virgo, 3rd house. 4th lord Venus (chest) is aspected by Saturn(Obstruction).
[/quote]

[Nora]

Dear Astrostar

Saturn is actually moved to her 6th house if you notice the bhava chart. Hence, during its Mahadasha, Antar and transit it'll give effects according to 6th and not to 5th right? And if it's positioned in 6th then how can it aspect venus placed in 7th? Then it'll aspect 8th, 12th and 3rd (as supposed to 7th, 11th and 2nd). Please clarify.

Kind regards

Nora


[/quote]
Spiritual inclination is there. She will get manthra siddhi. She will be successful in spiritual endeavours. There will not be great public fame as Mars is in 10th house and Venus in 7th is aspected by Saturn.

[Divinity]

Nora

When Shani retrogades, it gives the effects of his current bhava first, and then only the effects of the previous bhava. This is unlike the retrogade of other planets.

Thus for Shani moving its course normally, it wii give effects of the bhava it is moving towards first and then the bhava it is in. This is true in my case.

But how about the case when we are talking about dasha? It should tie in with Shani's movement whether direct or retrogade.

My Shani is retrogade and currently am experiencing Shani's dasa. My 1st half was more on career matters with Saturn in Capricorn retrogading in the 7th conjuncting Moon and Ketu. I was veered off my normal career path and gain cognizance of spiritual matters. Also some misunderstanding with bosses but eventually misunderstandings were resolved.

In 2nd half of Shani's dasa, it was more about work. Some accolades on the techniques of work and challenging situations get resolved because of Saturn in Sagittarius in the 6th forming a Vipareet Raja Yoga.

[hari766]

There were several people, who achieved their goals in ashtam shani from asc/moon, and in sade sati.
In all the above horoscopes, Saturn signified beneficial houses from ascendant.

There is no scriptural reference. Normally, I discover/invent new rules thru practice.
So, Saturn himself proves the statement -
"If Saturn signifies 2,3,6,10,11 houses, then, ashtama shani or sadesati cannot show its evil effects"

Thank you astrostar for the detailed response, with examples. I have one more query. Your examples show the attainment of materialistic goals, but will it be the same for physical/mental matters?

[astrostar]

Saturn is actually moved to her 6th house if you notice the bhava chart. Hence, during its Mahadasha, Antar and transit it'll give effects according to 6th and not to 5th right? And if it's positioned in 6th then how can it aspect venus placed in 7th? Then it'll aspect 8th, 12th and 3rd (as supposed to 7th, 11th and 2nd). Please clarify.

Dear Nora,

I do use KP system. You can use it in Astrosage app in any andriod mobile and check house placements
of all planets.
According to KP system - Saturn is in 5th house at 27°; not in 6th house. Saturn aspects 2,7,11 houses.
Regarding aspects, we have to consider only degrees.

[astrostar]

I have one more query. Your examples show the attainment of materialistic goals, but will it be the same for physical/mental matters?

As I said earlier, it depends on Saturn significations/afflictions. Difficult situations arise during ashtam Sani or sade sati either from moon or lagna if -
- If Saturn afflicts personal planets - Moon/Venus/Mercury in male charts,
then it gives mental worries, otherwise not.
- If Saturn afflicts 4th house or its lord, it gives domestic misunderstandings, disturbances.
- 3rd house or its significators - conflicts with younger siblings, problems in travelling
- 11th house or its significators - conficts with elder siblings or people
- 10th house or its significators - problems in career/office

If Saturn also signifies 8,12 houses, there would be unexpected losses.
If lagna and its lord are also afflicted (evil aspect) by Saturn, then physical problems would also be there.

All people don't get same kind of worries in sade sati or ashtam sani.
The kind of problem - mental problems or physical problems or material/money problems or family/domestic/spouse/children problems or enemies problems or career problems or govt. problems; one will face depends on Saturn significations/afflictions in natal/birth chart.

[Nora]

Dear astrostar and others

Thanks for the explanation. I shall read your replies more carefully to understand this. Meanwhile, astrostar could you please respond to my msg above where I have asked you five questions? (Regarding parivartana yog and other things?) you say this individual will not have a spiritual career. Then, what sort of career will she likely have?

Kind regards

Nora

[astrostar]

1. what about Ruchaka yoga of mars?

For name, fame, let us check the charts of some very famous spiritual people who were not interested in political powers. Here, I do not consider famous sports persons, political persons, actors, etc.

Gautama Buddha -
Lagna lord Moon in Libra was aspected by 5 planets - Mars, Jupiter, Venus, Sun, Saturn all situated in Aries sign. There was a conjunction of Sun and Jupiter. So, there was a relation between 1st house to 10th house and lagna lord Moon was well intensified.

Adi Sankaracharya -
Cancer lagna, Moon was aspected by 9th lord Jupiter and 10th lord Mars.
Sun was with Mercury and Venus in Aries Sign.

Ramakrishna Paramhansa -
Lagna, Sun, Moon, lagna lord - all were aspected by Jupiter. Lagna lord Saturn was in Libra.

Ramana Maharshi -
Libra lagna and 10th lord-Moon both got an aspect of Jupiter. He had Ruchaka yoga, Mars was in 7th Aries; Mars aspected lagna and 10th house. Lagna lord Venus joined Mercury. Sun was aspected by 10th lord full Moon.

Mohandas Gandhi ji -
Sun got an aspect of Jupiter. Venus and Mercury were in Libra lagna. 10th lord Moon was in 10th house. Lagna lord Venus(25° in Libra) was strongly aspected by Jupiter(0° in Taurus) with only 5° diff. All - Sun, Moon, lagna were powered and intensified.

Paramhansa Yogananda -
Sun's dispositor Jupiter situated in Pisces. And 10h lord Venus and Moon were aspected by strong Jupiter.

From the above, we can say, when sun, moon, lagna, 10th house are fortified/powered with benefics like Jupiter, Venus, Mercury, the person becomes very famous.

Now, once you check her chart for name, fame.

And, till now, I have not yet checked her career.

Next, shall discuss other 4 points.

[Nora]

Thanks astrostar

The native has done her PhD in psychology field from abroad, where she lived for 9 years. Was very good at her field and had a successful career. Speaks multiple languages fluently.

The native also has been into kick boxing and was apparently good at it.

She has been spiritual from her childhood and her father was a yogi (although he died very young which is evident with guru being with Rahu in 9th and sun in her 8th)

She renounced everything at 27 years of age and then full time teaching spirituality (teaching yoga meditation, serving the pot and needy, giving spiritual discourses about advaita Vedanta, Sufism and all other religions - she speaks and knows of scriptures and mystical texts from all cultures and faiths, speaks in mystical parables which very few can understand e.g. Suddenly she quotes texts from the upanishads, suddenly the bible and suddenly from Tibetan scripts, has written a few books and especially spiritual poetry). Very peculiarly, she as a kid went to the church and chanted gayatri Mantra, she'd go to the temple and chant Sufi texts etc. Not taught to her by her dad or someone as he was in Vow of silence during the last several years of his life.

She got married a year ago but has no interest in married life and to a great extent her husband too is very detached and he has allowed her to follow her spiritual pursuits.

My question is if you say she won't be successful or be recognised in her spiritual career then what is making her do all this and in fact she keeps saying in her discourses God is making her do all this, she isn't the doer.

So hence my curiosity what is her profession going to be and some experts have opined that she will be recognised for her efforts and people will give her donations towards her spiritual causes in the future.


Kind regards

Nora

[Nora]

Sorry textual correction in my text (serving the poor and the needy)

[astrostar]

2. Mercury is in vipareeta raj yoga? And an astrologer also said if sun is in the 8th (and in this budh Aditya yog is formed) masses can be reached. Of course, this won't be the same mass as in Sasha yoga but still there will be vcrowd to listen to the natie. Dunno how true that Astrologer's words will be.

According to KP system, Mercury is at 7 degrees. 8th house is at 9 degrees. Mercury is behind 8th.

So Mercury is in 7th house. vipareeta raj yoga not possible.

Jupiter is strong and aspecting all - lagna, 3rd, 5th houses, Ketu, and Saturn.
Lagna is aspected by Venus too.

So, she can attract people and make disciples.

[Nora]

Thanks astrostar

I'm looking forward to your explanation of the other 3 points

Kind regards
Nora

[hari766]

I have one more query. Your examples show the attainment of materialistic goals, but will it be the same for physical/mental matters?

As I said earlier, it depends on Saturn significations/afflictions.

Thank you, astrostar for the detailed explanation with examples.

[Nora]

Oh maybe cos it's in its own sign Aries?

Nora