Freewill Vs Fate

[basab14]

Please read my previous posts to Violet and Diksha ji in the previous pages. I have explained everything. I have never ever said that my efforts will earn me my destiny as the efforts we put in life is destined too as per my belief. If God helps me that is His play, and not a reward of some good karma that I may have earned with my effort as I don't believe we put effort as per our choice. All efforts we put are dictated by God only I believe. So it is His play from the beginning of creation to the end of it. We are just playing our parts as per His wish.

[VioletTwilight]

Dear basab,

Freewill is not about outside situation,i.e, I am in a situation with a choice giving up my favourite object or suffering if I have it. Freewill is about how I deal with it. There are many ways of dealing with the situation: I can "surrender" to the situation and suffer the illness, I can "fight" the situation and banish the favourite object out of my sight, I can "escape" the situation and find a substitute, which comes with its own problems. I don't think "will power" is the same thing as freewill. Freewill is not about "choice" of shaping world situations.

True freewill is the realization about why I love something and what should be my ideal reaction? I have to let it go against my love for it. It should happen without substitution mentally (by bad feelings, suppression of desire, avoidance anger, jealousy at other people's enjoyment of it) or physically (an item with similar characteristics). It is not an "outcome" that the world will see or any result we will see within this lifetime (or many lifetimes to come). It is the struggle. That is all.

Our karmas, chart, and grahas are all steering us to some substitute by our natural impulse. Of course, we are slaves to our senses and everyday living, but even a slave can exercise the limited power of choosing how to chew or not to eat. Isn't that the power of satyagraha? Of course, we have to struggle with our senses everyday, does that mean we never try to control them and wait until we get perfect control about every choice? Isn't the core of freewill vs fate philosophy? Do we give up on them because we don't have full control or try our best despite failed attempts?

I think I differ from the belief that only saints have true freewill. Is leaving worldly pleasures only definition of saint? In that case, what do you make of raja yoga or karma yoga where you are advised to be in the middle of worldly pleasures?
Again, this is why I think freewill is not a 100% thing. It is not a zero or 100% answer. Why do some people have risk of diabetes and other people dementia? Why are we humans and other beings are animals? That is the karma we are born with. How we steer it in present life is freewill.

Also, "being detached of feelings" is not the true freewill either, in my opinion. Given right ketu influence, one can be completely detached from everything. But, is that detachment arising from ignorance or self-knowledge? Is the detachment preventing or allowing swadharma? That is the kind of detachment that will last irrespective of timing and that needs the freewill to gain self-knowledge beyond what a birth chart will promise.

Best regards,
Violet

[VioletTwilight]

A nice practical approach VioletTwilight ji. It well aligns with Basab ji's signature line If everyone's freewill is made of discipline, clarity and strength probably God would provide us with much more liberty and power of execution, but since kali yuga lacks these, I guess, destiny has a upper hand.

I am a junior member here but read a lot of posts for learnings. I find your analysis and interpretations to be very down to earth, practical and very engaging even for the novice readers. I find them interesting - always a practical approach.

I am very much in a situation similar to what you described above. I am living in a city with brutal freezing winter and if I dont feel the sunshine/sun, I am very prone to depression and lack of confidence (which I realized recently as rootcause for my problems). Since I dont have an option, I trying to fight my depressive mood and remain confident. How I perceive my situation is, my problems/weaknesses could be from karmas, but the realization and determination is His blessing (a chance He gives me), courage to fight is Him. Whether I would gain control over and win is destiny, but I am sure I could because I believe He is my strength to fight it.

I believe in surrendering

Dear vaglram,

Be sure to bundle up properly. I almost froze my fingers a week ago not realizing that my glove had a hole. It takes about 5 minutes exposure to freeze at -35c with moderate wind. Btw, S.A.D is a real issue that affects many people. Hopefully, you are aware of taking Vitamin D drops. Take this advice as one of the nimittas as per your karma.

Sometimes I contemplate how Saturn's influence is felt with dry cold, vayu, and depression. Glad that you find my writing engaging. But note that I not an expert in jyotish and tend to write sometimes pure speculation derived from my own hypothesis. They may neither work out for practical predictions nor hold up to greater scrutiny under classics.

Good thing we are past the shortest day. Each day can only get longer from now on!
Keep safe.
Best regards,
Violet

[rjnth]

basab

I never said you are wrong... thats what I wrote earlier.
How freewill helps.. we have to learn from a neonate... how the baby struggles to sit and how baby puts efforts in making walking through baby step. Baby will try and try and makes effort to walk even after falling down. This is effort and also freewill for baby to walk even without support from anybody

[basab14]

Hi Violet,

I guess you are right, there is free will along with destiny. It was a pleasure discussing the topic of 'destiny and free will' with you.

[basab14]

True, Rjnth, I understand what you are trying to mean. Yes, there is free will, I guess.

[vaglram]

Dear vaglram,

Be sure to bundle up properly. I almost froze my fingers a week ago not realizing that my glove had a hole. It takes about 5 minutes exposure to freeze at -35c with moderate wind. Btw, S.A.D is a real issue that affects many people. Hopefully, you are aware of taking Vitamin D drops. Take this advice as one of the nimittas as per your karma.

Sometimes I contemplate how Saturn's influence is felt with dry cold, vayu, and depression. Glad that you find my writing engaging. But note that I not an expert in jyotish and tend to write sometimes pure speculation derived from my own hypothesis. They may neither work out for practical predictions nor hold up to greater scrutiny under classics.

Good thing we are past the shortest day. Each day can only get longer from now on!
Keep safe.
Best regards,
Violet

Wow,-35? Mine goes till -20. Did you get a chance to see the video on weather.com when a lady splashes boiling water into air with temp at -25. The boiling water immediately turns into snow the moment it gets out of the kettle. That was wonderful to watch.

Thanks, I always make sure my iron/vitamin levels are good. I learnt it the hard way.

Sunshine is a psycological thing for me. Sometime out in the sun everyday is like meditation time for me. It helps me relax, calm down my thoughts and boosts my internal energies to make me better even after a long tiring day. I am starting to learn aditya hridya stotram to seek blessings of Sun god and gain that stability.

Thank you again.

[vaglram]

Thank you everyone. Its was a nice opportunity to share my thoughts and get others perspectives too.

I understand, everyone has a life to lead and whatever approach makes one confident to lead it in a wise way becomes the best approach for him/her. Be it surrendering/destiny/freewill, as long as we have right intentions we will always be blessed by Him.

I wish everyone good luck in all your efforts. Thanks again.

[kguha001]

I suppose this topic is closed by now and that I am late to drop in.

I read tons of materials like how you can change your destiny by hard work including several references from Gita.

Until I pondered upon my own life so far. Freewill and destiny have a interesting love hate relation. From 2007 to 2008 I got things without asking and basically 2005 to 2008 Nov was the happiest I have been so far. I might have been in a better state before that but definitely never left likewise in my heart. By this time I felt more confident and developed deep interest in my field of study. Strangely I passed out of university by then. I wanted a better job. So I went back to square one and started my struggle for about 2 yrs. I worked and studied. Didn't have time for myself not for my friends and family. Had to manage a boss from hell and demanding work hours. I travelled in the wee hours of the morning to go stand in front of the test centers all over Delhi. There is no single Govt firm where I have not applied both in Delhi and my home state. I was failing but kept looking ahead for the next exam. I took postal coaching even crisscrossed Grater Noida and Delhi to attend mock tests. I tried IES, I tried GATE. In the midst of these I had a 10-12 hr/day 6 day week job. And I was kind of plant incharge. So you can understand the added off work responsibilities. Plus a relation to maintain. I did get decent GATE score but was not good enough for IIT. So kept on trying until one day I felt that I am not going anywhere. I used to even dream of question papers those days in sleep. ha ha ha...

So stopped everything and then suddenly one fine morning I just got so restless that I could not take it anymore with my dead end job and then bang ... As if someone told me you can always try to do higher studies from abroad. This was in June 2010. No one ever in my family has been out of India before. Neither I ever had any desire. I had no finance . I didn't know a single process of application. I didn't even know what kind of visa to apply for let alone the process. but next year Sept 2011 I was abroad. I shocked everyone including myself.

You see I tried to plan things and also gave my 100%. But then life has something always different planned for you. My struggle didn't end after coming here its still on and I am inspite of the all the odds still plan things and often fail. And perhaps if I keep bumping off maybe I might get settled sometime. I lost a lot in all these experiment. I have seen my family only 10 days in 3 years . I have lost touch with my friends. And worst I lost someone special............

SO I feel you need to be guided to the right direction by destiny and then when you know in your heart that this is the right thing , all the freewill in the universe will take you ashore.


Ciao...

[olivetree]

I have not yet read every post in this thread, but in relation to this topic I wanted to share this quote from the Upanishads:

"As a person acts so he becomes in life. Those who do good become good. Those who do bad become bad. Good deeds make one pure. Bad deeds make one impure. You are what your deep driving desire is. As your desire is, so is your will. As your will is, so is your deed. As your deed is so is your destiny. We live in accordance with our deep, driving desire. It is this desire at the time of death that determines what our next life will be. We will come back to earth to work out the satisfaction of that desire."

The Upanishads also talk of how when a person passes away, the subtle body carries with it all the deeds of that life. Now if we take into account the belief that Rahu (obsessive desire) is the main reason for each person's rebirth, then we can assume that the other graha signify the deeds of our past lives. Hence on this material plane we are forced to try to get Rahu (our desire) through the limitations we created for ourselves via our deeds in the past life. After all graha means "to grab" The planets literally grab us. They limit us. Even if they are well placed in our charts they are still limitations because the material plane is all about limitation. The harder we try for our desire the more they grab us. Therefore I believe that freewill can be used to help subjugate the desires that their chart naturally inclines them towards. And it is by renouncing or toning down those desires that our destiny begins to shift. This is my belief.

[kguha001]

update:its all freewill man ...destiny can be shaped...rest part all mumbo jumbo...

[tylorechandra]

@kguha001: You must be a blessed one indeed. So much confidence in one's capabilities.. Great. Good Luck.

TKC