Spirituality, Astrology, Destiny, B. Geeta, Celibacy

[Sudarshang]

Dear Sudarshanji
there are various theories on triguna
and most show that moving through them is natural they are not considered evil
that is a different and equally valid viewpoint

BUT

i am not an authority
now somehow me and you seem to be engaging in a dialogue,
and i believe in dialogue, because i feel in a dialogue, we, meaning both parties can re-examine the beliefs we cling to and really introspect
that is something i have found has really helped me
there was a time when i beleived only in sattva, being sattvik
and chanted for hours a day to keep the mind in that state
now i dont see a difference in triguna, as mind moves from one to the other
i believe in observation, but again that is my current belief, not an absolute,
this i have gained for listening, introspecting, and internalizing


what do you think about dialogue?

do you also find it as a way to re-examine your beliefs?

thanks
suniti

Suniti-ji (I know, I should have reciprocated this earlier - sorry).

"what do you think about dialogue?" - I like dialogues too, and been very much enjoying this dialog with you.

do you also find it as a way to re-examine your beliefs? - I find ways to learn. My sources of learning are different. They only deepen my understanding of what I practice. My learning leads to refinement of my practice. As far as my path is concerned, I have put all the eggs in that one basket for this lifetime. I know I will succeed - and have enormous amount of confidence in that path. this conviction leads me to respect and leave other paths alone - i don't even engage in discussions about other paths. Yes, I have become close minded, because I do believe that I have found a "great secret". I have been initiated in these "secrets".

[krishnagopal1968]

Anupam Ji,

You said in reply to Mahesh Ji's post

"But irony is you took yourself as substantial and rest as imagination"

This is the essence and you have explained it so nice!

[Sudarshang]

Thanks Sudarshang. Can you please say something more about your practice and the experiences you had?

Krishna

Experiences are personal and cannot be described.

Practice is simple - but has huge intellectual analysis as to why it is effective and easy. It is called "Sharanagati" or Surrendering to the Lord.

[krishnagopal1968]

Dear Aseem ji,

Earlier this thread is of more irrelevant oneliners and jokes!

But now it goes very meaningful. Members like Suniti Ji are adding more essence!


krishna................

[Sudarshang]

Sudarsahnji,

Good point, how do you lose your "self"? Sitting silently, doing nothing?

Yes, it is a possibility, difficult express that mental state...
One can look at people who has least confidence, shivering, every time depends on others advices,
get easily harassed by others silently without able to attack them, people who are highly hesitative,
(some times this mis-confidence is so deep that people will fail to have 'family' relations with their spouses),
people simply follow whatever a strong man says...... these are some qualities of people who are self-less.

To some extent... (I may be wrong)

Arjuna shievered first time when he went to battle field, though he is a great warrior (but with kindness, which made him somewhat self-less and soft)

We also read that Sri Hannumanji is very strong, Shaktiman, but He realizes His strength after everybody prises Him.
May be because He had divoted His 'self' to Sri Rama...

Not "May be" - Hanuman-ji's strength is indeed because of his devotion to Ram.

Let me narrate a story here: You know that Garuda eats snakes. Now, Garuda is Vishnu's carrier. So the snakes cant say no to him. Garuda used to catch and eat snakes randomly, one to many per day. The chief of Snakes on earth went to Garuda and and negotiated a deal that one snake a day will become Garuda's food. There was a snake called "sumukhan". When its day came, it went and clinged to Krishna's feet, knowing that Krishna will save it. Now Krishna stopped Garuda from Sumukhan. Garuda argued with Krishna and said - Krishna you only created me, and you only created snakes, and you are the one that made it a "dharma" for Garuda to eat snakes. Now you are yourself stopping me from having my food. If I lose this snake I will not even get any other" Krishna said, " I cannot allow you to have this snake because it is asking for my protection". Now Garuda gets angry with Krishna. It says," is this how you repay me for the years and yugas I have been carrying you on my back?". Krishna laughed and asked," you carrying me on your back? Who carries who? just think about it..." Now Garuda is not amused anymore. Krishna proposes a contest - "I will place my thumb on the ground, you try to lift it off the ground". Evidently, Garuda is not able to take Krishna's thumb off the ground. Krishna smilingly asks, " now do you understand who carries who"? Garuda understands that all his strength of carrying the Lord and His consorts, is all His grace - it is all His strength. without Him, Garuda has no strength.

[krishnagopal1968]

Sudarshan Ji,

you say

"Practice is simple - but has huge intellectual analysis as to why it is effective and easy. It is called "Sharanagati" or Surrendering to the Lord."

Now this huge intellectual analysis and sharanagati is not contradictory?! to whom do we have to prove by our analysis? Is it not only to others but also to our own minds which means still has doubts? Then is that mind surrendered?!

Bhakthi path doesnot need not all any analysis. I have seen a video of Sri Prabhupada. He says " nothing is needed to be done. just chant " Hare krishna". He never said do huge intellectual analysis!

Yes that analysis is needed but not for bhakthi path people but if we go by gnana path.

[Sudarshang]

Krishna-ji

Prabhupad-ji stated that because he was already full of knowledge. I have already stated in response to Suniti-ji's question - Karma, Gnana, and Bhakti are NOT mutually exclusive....This is the value chain - that is why Karma, Gnana, Bhakthi - not Bhakthi, Gnana, and Karma...

Karma leads to Gnana, Gnanan leads to Bhakti. You are performing Bhakthi because you understand Who He is, and who you are...if you dont have clear understanding of that Bhakthi will not last long....like a politician joining the winning alliance every election, you will be changing camps - everytime you face challenging situation.
That said, "Sharanagati is not Bhakthi"....................

[Sudarshang]

Krishna-ji

you need the intellectual analysis - not for the one who has performed sharanagati - for those who havent performed. After performing sharanagati you may chant "Hare Krishna" - that is enough.

[krishnagopal1968]

Dear Sudarshang,

Sri Prabhupada's story is remarkable. If you read his lilamrita or KN Rao ji's analysis of his horoscope to prove his makar lagna or '"transcendental horoscope of prabhuapada by his disciple shyamsundara das, you will come to know the truth.

He served his guru that is first and foremost important. second whenever he encountered losses, sufferings, he said " ah,one more attachment gone"!" During his ship ride to america, he suffered two heart attacks and died almost. It is said that he attained emptiness only at that time and then krishna filled him as god comes to us only when we die ie, if we drop all our attachments and specially attachment to knowledge is subtle and very hard to drop.

That is all I want to say.

[Sudarshang]

Dear Sudarshang,

Sri Prabhupada's story is remarkable. If you read his lilamrita or KN Rao ji's analysis of his horoscope to prove his makar lagna or '"transcendental horoscope of prabhuapada by his disciple shyamsundara das, you will come to know the truth.

He served his guru that is first and foremost important. second whenever he encountered losses, sufferings, he said " ah,one more attachment gone"!" During his ship ride to america, he suffered two heart attacks and died almost. It is said that he attained emptiness only at that time and then krishna filled him as god comes to us only when we die ie, if we drop all our attachments and specially attachment to knowledge is subtle and very hard to drop.

That is all I want to say.

Thanks, I am aware of his story.

[Sudarshang]

Dear Sudarshang,

Sri Prabhupada's story is remarkable. If you read his lilamrita or KN Rao ji's analysis of his horoscope to prove his makar lagna or '"transcendental horoscope of prabhuapada by his disciple shyamsundara das, you will come to know the truth.

He served his guru that is first and foremost important. second whenever he encountered losses, sufferings, he said " ah,one more attachment gone"!" During his ship ride to america, he suffered two heart attacks and died almost. It is said that he attained emptiness only at that time and then krishna filled him as god comes to us only when we die ie, if we drop all our attachments and specially attachment to knowledge is subtle and very hard to drop.

That is all I want to say.

"It is said that he attained emptiness only at that time and then krishna filled him as god comes to us only when we die ie, if we drop all our attachments and specially attachment to knowledge is subtle and very hard to drop." I beg to disagree here - while divine experiences are possible in human body, to categorize that with a statement that "only at that time Krishna filled him as god comes to us only we die etc." is wrong. Firstly, the Lord is within all of us, already. We only need to recognize that. When we recognize that and surrender to him, (that is also the meaning of the word "Nama:" - Not mine") we say, I was thinking all this time I was the owner of this human body - now only I realized that you are my master and the true owner. That is when all our attachments drop - you cannot drop attachments by yourself without divine grace.

[krishnagopal1968]

okay. Let divine grace help us to drop these attachments of knowledge.

[suniti]

okay. Let divine grace help us to drop these attachments of knowledge.

amen

also if anyone is the cue for grace please hold a space for me as i may be late....still stuck in shabdajaalam

pranaams

[Sudarshang]

okay. Let divine grace help us to drop these attachments of knowledge.

amen

also if anyone is the cue for grace please hold a space for me as i may be late....still stuck in shabdajaalam

pranaams

"Shabdajaalam" huh?
Adi Sankara says "Nahin Nahin Rakshati Dhukrin Karane"... too...

Shabda has not helped in practice - but has helped in knowledge transfer .practice comes from that.

"Let divine grace help us drop these attachments of knowledge" ...what have you done to receive that divine grace? It is not pre-destined - you have to do what you have to do in order for it to happen. I am not saying Narayana is selective in showering His Grace - however, we are all bad recipients - we need to prepare ourselves in order to receive that grace.

[krishnagopal1968]

Dear Sudarshang,

I have only responded to what you have stated about attachments that they won't drop without divine grace.

And yes precisely that is my point too that we have to ascend to God's grace. But theories upon theories only are seen here. Now where is the practice aspect? what practice do we have to do?

You state we have to do intellectual analysis before practice. Now having done that in many posts, can we stop that analysis and start about practical methods?


krishna.......................

[Sudarshang]

Dear Sudarshang,

I have only responded to what you have stated about attachments that they won't drop without divine grace.

And yes precisely that is my point too that we have to ascend to God's grace. But theories upon theories only are seen here. Now where is the practice aspect? what practice do we have to do?

You state we have to do intellectual analysis before practice. Now having done that in many posts, can we stop that analysis and start about practical methods?


krishna.......................

Krishna-ji

Are you asking my suggestion for spiritual practices?

[krishnagopal1968]

Sudarshan Ji,

Yes. I want to know your suggestions for spiritual practice of Bhakthi marg.

[Abhijit Muhurta !!!]

As far as my path is concerned, I have put all the eggs in that one basket for this lifetime. I know I will succeed - and have enormous amount of confidence in that path. this conviction leads me to respect and leave other paths alone - i don't even engage in discussions about other paths. Yes, I have become close minded, because I do believe that I have found a "great secret". I have been initiated in these "secrets".

Dear Sudarshang .... Wishing that all your aspirations come true !
But once said this you ought to know that various people here have their own "secrets" and that you can probably make no difference to anyone here.
Its true that we all want to believe only things that we already know. and we condone the knowledge we already know and condemn the knowledge we do not know !
so the baseline is no debate is actually possible !
Please do not think that you should not express here or dear P MAHESH should not ask questions here....
I just see the futility of the whole exercise. Thats all.
Regards,

[Basab]

I just see the futility of the whole exercise.

Abhijit,

I agree that no one (that includes me) comes here with an open mind, and so these discussions are really futile. Each and everyone thinks that he is right and wants to force his belief on others, and if not successful, then keeps writing what he believes in, not bothering about whether anyone agrees with him or not. I don't think till today anyone in the history of this discussion board has changed his belief hearing someone else's belief, which is different to his.

[Sudarshang]

Sudarshan Ji,

Yes. I want to know your suggestions for spiritual practice of Bhakthi marg.

You dont discuss such things in an open forum, please contact me separately at sudarshang@[No Personal Contact Details on Public Forum].com. I will be more than willing to share what I know.

[Sudarshang]

I just see the futility of the whole exercise.

Abhijit,

I agree that no one (that includes me) comes here with an open mind, and so these discussions are really futile. Each and everyone thinks that he is right and wants to force his belief on others, and if not successful, then keeps writing what he believes in, not bothering about whether anyone agrees with him or not. I don't think till today anyone in the history of this discussion board has changed his belief hearing someone else's belief, which is different to his.

Abhijit, and Basab

Sincerely, I believe what I know is good for humanity, and know very well that what has worked for me works for everybody. I participate in forums to share what I know - for the betterment and benefit of those that dont know, and are eager to learn. (if you are not interested in learning, you are free not to read my posts/react to it...let only those that are interested read...even if there is one reader that is interested, I am willing to post. If there is none let me know, I will leave the forum). I am open to listening to others - but I dont see myself changing...the reason is simple: I have the Lord's assurance - then why should I bother?

I am not here to "force" my belief on others as I have been accused of above - I only share, provided there are listeners. Like Swami Nammazhwar says, "I just share what good things I know, those that want to benefit will benefit". (On another note, I am not the ruler of province that I force my subjects to follow my religion - aka Aurangzeb. I am just an ordinary human being just like all you people. "Forcing my belief on others" happens only when I am in power/authority to make the "Force".

Again, IF you think what I post here is irrelevant to what you want to hear, please REFRAIN from READING or REACTING to my posts. Thanks for the consideration.

[suniti]

I dont create Shabda-jaalam as I have been accused of again here on this forum. Like Swami Nammazhwar says, "I just share what good things I know, those that want to benefit will benefit". (On another note, I am not the ruler of province that I force my subjects to follow my religion - aka Aurangzeb. I am just an ordinary human being just like all you people. "Forcing my belief on others" happens only when I am in power/authority to make the "Force".

Again, IF you think what I post here is irrelevant to what you want to hear, please REFRAIN from READING or REACTING to my posts. Thanks for the consideration.

Dearest Sudarshanji
i assume you are talking about me when you spoke about Shabdajaalam but please do note it was not at all in reference to you, i am in my own shabdajaalam, and was referring to a verse from vivekachoodamani, "shabda jaalam mahaaranyam, chitta bhramanakaaranam"
yes indeed sir i am in my own shabdajaalam, the words of adi shankara, maharshi ramana, nisargadatta maharajam, i am not saying its negative or positive but i do have my own views.

i do respect you for you knowledge and faith, how i wish it was that simple for me but it is not.

do you think it was a reaction on your part for assuming i was referring to you while talking about shabdajaalam as i was addressing that post to Krishnaji? I was not, i am not manipulative or sneaky, the most i am is stupid and undeserving.
If you did think i was referring to you, why was that?

sincerely and pranaams
suniti

[Sudarshang]

Sudarshan Ji,

Yes. I want to know your suggestions for spiritual practice of Bhakthi marg.

You dont discuss such things in an open forum, please contact me separately at sudarshang@[No Personal Contact Details on Public Forum].com. I will be more than willing to share what I know.

BTW, for your and others that are interested in knowing only: I dont follow Bhakthi Marg....nor Karma Yoga, not Gnana Yoga. All three yield results only when the baggage of Karma is exhausted. A baggage created over so many millions of lifes will take millions more to exhaust... Therefore I chose another path that is valid, tested, and easier.

[Sudarshang]

I dont create Shabda-jaalam as I have been accused of again here on this forum. Like Swami Nammazhwar says, "I just share what good things I know, those that want to benefit will benefit". (On another note, I am not the ruler of province that I force my subjects to follow my religion - aka Aurangzeb. I am just an ordinary human being just like all you people. "Forcing my belief on others" happens only when I am in power/authority to make the "Force".

Again, IF you think what I post here is irrelevant to what you want to hear, please REFRAIN from READING or REACTING to my posts. Thanks for the consideration.

Dearest Sudarshanji
i assume you are talking about me when you spoke about Shabdajaalam but please do note it was not at all in reference to you, i am in my own shabdajaalam, and was referring to a verse from vivekachoodamani, "shabda jaalam mahaaranyam, chitta bhramanakaaranam"
yes indeed sir i am in my own shabdajaalam, the words of adi shankara, maharshi ramana, nisargadatta maharajam, i am not saying its negative or positive but i do have my own views.

i do respect you for you knowledge and faith, how i wish it was that simple for me but it is not.

do you think it was a reaction on your part for assuming i was referring to you while talking about shabdajaalam as i was addressing that post to Krishnaji? I was not, i am not manipulative or sneaky, the most i am is stupid and undeserving.
If you did think i was referring to you, why was that?

sincerely and pranaams
suniti

Suniti-ji

Thanks for the clarification. I will withdraw my words.

[Sudarshang]

Suniti-Ji

I respect you for your inquisitive mind, and eagerness to learn. You have asked the most intelligent questions thus far....You have stated that you wished it were as simple for you .....

In fact it is equally simple to for everbody. Out of the respect I have for you, let me assure you, life is simple, after-life is simple, and so is Moksha. We make things complicated. I too thought once upon a time (when I used to read Shankara etc.) that it was all complicated. No need. Everything is simple, very easy to understand and practice. It is even easy for lay persons that dont have the inquisitive mind as yours....why worry, there is way.