Hi
Reply to astro_abc :
Yes, you are correct. Each house rules a lot of areas of life. So in this case 9th is not just higher studies but has religious connotations. Same as the 12th. But because 12th is 4th from 9th and like I said is the seat of the throne for the 9th, then moksha is the final outcome after attending religous ceremonies, hearing of mantras (like from the Guru) etc.
(Though of course to which deity the person prays to one looks at the 5th Hosue).
Thanks.
Hock Leong
Why is a Cancer Ascendant Special
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hello khoo,
you said
"On another note, a Yogakaraka because it is ruling Kendra (where practical manifestations take place - results more easily obtained) and a Trinal House (where prosperity and luck resides), wherever it is placed in the chart it would give very good results even in Dusthana Houses although the latter point would of course also have to be taken into account ie. results would be slightly watered down"
where did you get this information from - specifically about the Dushthana Houses? Everything I have read (albeit not too much) suggests that Mars in the 12th is very inauspicious. What I read that Mars in the 12th causes lack of sleep, too many vivid dreams and an "expense" of energy in the dream world thus not having enough to actually use in the material world.
In the case of Can Asc, is this not the case?
What are the good results? What do you mean by "slightly watered down"?
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Also another question - how is mercury as an atmakaraka for the cancer ascendant?
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you said
"On another note, a Yogakaraka because it is ruling Kendra (where practical manifestations take place - results more easily obtained) and a Trinal House (where prosperity and luck resides), wherever it is placed in the chart it would give very good results even in Dusthana Houses although the latter point would of course also have to be taken into account ie. results would be slightly watered down"
where did you get this information from - specifically about the Dushthana Houses? Everything I have read (albeit not too much) suggests that Mars in the 12th is very inauspicious. What I read that Mars in the 12th causes lack of sleep, too many vivid dreams and an "expense" of energy in the dream world thus not having enough to actually use in the material world.
In the case of Can Asc, is this not the case?
What are the good results? What do you mean by "slightly watered down"?
------
Also another question - how is mercury as an atmakaraka for the cancer ascendant?
---------
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Khoo Hock Leong
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Hi astro_abc
Books would tell you about the Yogas, placement of planets in houses etc. Because they are not writing in reference to a chart. Most of the Vedic books they go topic by topic. Only in books dealing with chart analysis then they would weigh all the factors together. And of course every chart is different, so there will be no books even those dealing with chart analysis, can there be a comparison.
Astrological interpretation is also by intuition and judgement. Not just merely getting from books.
Aside from chart analysis, astrological principles sometimes must be taken together to come up with a composite principle. That is why there are students doing post-graduate degree in Vedic Astrology. Their aim is come up with new avenues of further research to their current research work. Usually the participants in this forum they seldom want to give chart interpretations unless they have the full details of the person's birth data. But since this is a blog, well I interpret accordingly based on the data you gave me. Otherwise everything becomes a matter of either everything or nothing which spoils the joy of discussion.
When I said "watered down" I mean 12th being Dusthana, the areas ruled by it as well as its effects it gives would mitigate the good results given by a Yogakara because for example, it is not considered a house of good luck. For example if Mars for a Cancer Ascendant is placed in the 9th, then on top of accentuating the areas ruled by the 9th, since the 9th also stands for the house of luck, the areas would also be blessed. But for the 12th, such good blessings would be harder to come by if one look at it as being a Dusthana from Lagna point of view.
Thanks.
Hock Leong
Books would tell you about the Yogas, placement of planets in houses etc. Because they are not writing in reference to a chart. Most of the Vedic books they go topic by topic. Only in books dealing with chart analysis then they would weigh all the factors together. And of course every chart is different, so there will be no books even those dealing with chart analysis, can there be a comparison.
Astrological interpretation is also by intuition and judgement. Not just merely getting from books.
Aside from chart analysis, astrological principles sometimes must be taken together to come up with a composite principle. That is why there are students doing post-graduate degree in Vedic Astrology. Their aim is come up with new avenues of further research to their current research work. Usually the participants in this forum they seldom want to give chart interpretations unless they have the full details of the person's birth data. But since this is a blog, well I interpret accordingly based on the data you gave me. Otherwise everything becomes a matter of either everything or nothing which spoils the joy of discussion.
When I said "watered down" I mean 12th being Dusthana, the areas ruled by it as well as its effects it gives would mitigate the good results given by a Yogakara because for example, it is not considered a house of good luck. For example if Mars for a Cancer Ascendant is placed in the 9th, then on top of accentuating the areas ruled by the 9th, since the 9th also stands for the house of luck, the areas would also be blessed. But for the 12th, such good blessings would be harder to come by if one look at it as being a Dusthana from Lagna point of view.
Thanks.
Hock Leong
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Khoo Hock Leong
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Hi astro_abc
In general, it is better to have benefics to be the Atmakaraka rather than a malefic. Since the Atmakaraka always points to some suffering during its Dasa, it is better to work this out with a benefic rather than a malefic.
For the Atmakaraka, its placement in the sign in the Navamsa is important and that shoudl be looked into for further chart interpretation. I believe that is called the Karakamsa. There are a host of Yogas dealing with planetary aspects on the Atmakara placed in the Karakamsa.
You can actually find out the characteristics of each planet being the Atmakaraka from the web and then interpret accordingly for the Cancer Ascendant based on the houses it rules.
Better still, a good astrological text would list down various interpretations for the placement of the sign of the Atmakaraka in the Navamsa and also the aspects other planets make to it in that position.
Thanks.
Hock Leong
In general, it is better to have benefics to be the Atmakaraka rather than a malefic. Since the Atmakaraka always points to some suffering during its Dasa, it is better to work this out with a benefic rather than a malefic.
For the Atmakaraka, its placement in the sign in the Navamsa is important and that shoudl be looked into for further chart interpretation. I believe that is called the Karakamsa. There are a host of Yogas dealing with planetary aspects on the Atmakara placed in the Karakamsa.
You can actually find out the characteristics of each planet being the Atmakaraka from the web and then interpret accordingly for the Cancer Ascendant based on the houses it rules.
Better still, a good astrological text would list down various interpretations for the placement of the sign of the Atmakaraka in the Navamsa and also the aspects other planets make to it in that position.
Thanks.
Hock Leong
Dear Koo Hock,
I have a question. For a cancer ascendant, Mars and Saturn rule houses 5, 10, 7, and 8 respectively. Of these 3 are good houses, 1 bad. Thus I would guess, as your discussion has emphasized, that these are important planets for this ascendant. If Mars and Saturn are themselves in aspect, for example, in my chart they are in opposition from houses 10 and 4-how does that play out? Can I assume that houses 5, 10, 7, 8, 4, and maybe 6, are all linked? This is in fact half the houses in my chart.
the reason I ask is that if you take linked dispositors, mars in its own house stands alone without connection to other planets. Looking at rulerships however gives a very different picture-it is well integrated with the rest of my chart. Which actually applies here? Personally, I feel my mars energy is very well integrated in my actual personality, not the other way around.
I have a question. For a cancer ascendant, Mars and Saturn rule houses 5, 10, 7, and 8 respectively. Of these 3 are good houses, 1 bad. Thus I would guess, as your discussion has emphasized, that these are important planets for this ascendant. If Mars and Saturn are themselves in aspect, for example, in my chart they are in opposition from houses 10 and 4-how does that play out? Can I assume that houses 5, 10, 7, 8, 4, and maybe 6, are all linked? This is in fact half the houses in my chart.
the reason I ask is that if you take linked dispositors, mars in its own house stands alone without connection to other planets. Looking at rulerships however gives a very different picture-it is well integrated with the rest of my chart. Which actually applies here? Personally, I feel my mars energy is very well integrated in my actual personality, not the other way around.
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Khoo Hock Leong
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Hi Maharani
If house and sign placements for Mars, Saturn, Jupiter, Ketu, Rahu and the Moon are like what you said (I am not sure about your other planets house and sign placements) then Mars being in its own sign and not linked by dispositorship, receives aspects only from Saturn and Rahu (Rahu throws a 9th house aspect to Mars). Saturn (a true planet) being in Libra and making a full aspect to Mars would invariably would pass on its charactristics in a sign, in this case Libra to Mars. It is also passes on its aspects from Jupiter to itself to Mars - secondary linking by aspects (not by dispositorship). In the case of Rahu (which is not a true planet), it takes on the effects of the sign in which it is placed (which is Saggittarius) even more strongly and is also coloured more strongly by the planet it associates with (which is the Moon) and the aspects it receives like Jupiter. It also assumes the characteristics of the 6th House which is a combination of the Atma (Earth) houses and Apoklima (Cadent) houses. So again Mars in the 10th house is strengthened (but not too much because of some cadent effects passed on).
The previous paragraph talks about passing on of aspects to Mars (no passing on of dispositorship for Mars) and the sign and house characteristics to Mars. Also through aspects only, the planets can also pass on the houses it rules - just like you said Saturn rules 7th and 8th so these affairs are somehow passed on to Mars for consideration. Rahu rules 3rd and 11th and again these are passed on to Mars (although for the shadowy planets, according to most astrologers the house rulership is less important although I disagree).
Then of course you can see which Nakshatra your various planets are placed and determine their planet rulerships and how they are linked (in this case Mars would then not be considered in its own sign anymore as Nakshatra rulers are different). Nakshatra rulership plays an important part in Jaimini Astrology but Vedic Astrology has incorporated some of its principles into its fold.
Yet another way your Mars can be linked to the other planets is via Argala houses. The 2nd, 4th and 11th to a House are the primary argalas. The 5th and the 8th are the secondary argalas. The diametrically opposite houses ie. the 12th, 10th and 3rd cause Virodha or obstruction. So is the 9th and the 6th. In this classification, we ignore the distinction between Dusthana and non-Dusthana houses. Nor do we consider trinal house 9th is good. Here lordships, aspects do not count. But significators for the house in question in this case your Mars house placement do. So for example if the Sun is in the 11th house and is 2nd to your Mars, Sun being the significator of the 10th would help to boost up your career. There is however no linkage by aspect or dispositorship in this case.
Other ways a planet like your Mars can be linked is by treating each house in turn in an anti-clockwise direction what is its relationship with the said house. So in the 11th house of gains being the 2nd to the 10th means that it is the income that can be earned that spur you on towards your career. Bad planets in the 11th house means your effort may not be recognised through a low income which can dampen your morale. And then we go to each one in turn in an anticlockwise direction like the 9th is the 12th to the 10th. Jupiter ruling there means your aspirations for further studies may mean that you may brake your career temporarily to go for post-graduate studies (?) and Jupiter being placed in the 12th which is the 3rd of the 10th means the effort mabye tremendous (3rd rules effort and the 10th already signifies effort). And so on.
Then you may want to consider alternative lagnas like Surya, Moon, Arudha Lagna. Take that as a starting point and the houses Mars rule switch. For example, taking Moon as your Lagna, you have a Saggittarius Ascendant. This means Mars is ruling your 5th and 12th Houses. The 5th to the Moon is actually the 10th to your orignal Lagna. As the Moon is the next most important planet in the chart, this means that your ambitions (10th) is tinged by idealism (the 5th) and your idealism is tampered with emotions and compassion (the Moon Lagna now is being considered). Your 12th House to the Moon is also your 5th House to Lagna (both ruled by Mars). So you can be a slave, like a bondage (12th to the Moon), to thinking discriminately (5th to Lagna). You do not let issues dangling in the air. You follow them through to. That is your style. And the bondage is automatic (because Moon Lagna is the one considered for the 12th House enumeration).
Similary for Surya Lagna, look to it for health issues as the Sun rules our basic body constitution.
And there are many, many more ways a chart can be integrated like participating in a Yoga (a specialised planetary combination). Are they linked in the divisional charts? In fact the calculation of a strength of planet using Shadbala when broken into its components, each component each planet has a part to play in that role and because other planets also have roles, there is an interaction of roles and that's how Mars get further integrated.
Veidc Astrology is complex!
Thanks.
Hock Leong
If house and sign placements for Mars, Saturn, Jupiter, Ketu, Rahu and the Moon are like what you said (I am not sure about your other planets house and sign placements) then Mars being in its own sign and not linked by dispositorship, receives aspects only from Saturn and Rahu (Rahu throws a 9th house aspect to Mars). Saturn (a true planet) being in Libra and making a full aspect to Mars would invariably would pass on its charactristics in a sign, in this case Libra to Mars. It is also passes on its aspects from Jupiter to itself to Mars - secondary linking by aspects (not by dispositorship). In the case of Rahu (which is not a true planet), it takes on the effects of the sign in which it is placed (which is Saggittarius) even more strongly and is also coloured more strongly by the planet it associates with (which is the Moon) and the aspects it receives like Jupiter. It also assumes the characteristics of the 6th House which is a combination of the Atma (Earth) houses and Apoklima (Cadent) houses. So again Mars in the 10th house is strengthened (but not too much because of some cadent effects passed on).
The previous paragraph talks about passing on of aspects to Mars (no passing on of dispositorship for Mars) and the sign and house characteristics to Mars. Also through aspects only, the planets can also pass on the houses it rules - just like you said Saturn rules 7th and 8th so these affairs are somehow passed on to Mars for consideration. Rahu rules 3rd and 11th and again these are passed on to Mars (although for the shadowy planets, according to most astrologers the house rulership is less important although I disagree).
Then of course you can see which Nakshatra your various planets are placed and determine their planet rulerships and how they are linked (in this case Mars would then not be considered in its own sign anymore as Nakshatra rulers are different). Nakshatra rulership plays an important part in Jaimini Astrology but Vedic Astrology has incorporated some of its principles into its fold.
Yet another way your Mars can be linked to the other planets is via Argala houses. The 2nd, 4th and 11th to a House are the primary argalas. The 5th and the 8th are the secondary argalas. The diametrically opposite houses ie. the 12th, 10th and 3rd cause Virodha or obstruction. So is the 9th and the 6th. In this classification, we ignore the distinction between Dusthana and non-Dusthana houses. Nor do we consider trinal house 9th is good. Here lordships, aspects do not count. But significators for the house in question in this case your Mars house placement do. So for example if the Sun is in the 11th house and is 2nd to your Mars, Sun being the significator of the 10th would help to boost up your career. There is however no linkage by aspect or dispositorship in this case.
Other ways a planet like your Mars can be linked is by treating each house in turn in an anti-clockwise direction what is its relationship with the said house. So in the 11th house of gains being the 2nd to the 10th means that it is the income that can be earned that spur you on towards your career. Bad planets in the 11th house means your effort may not be recognised through a low income which can dampen your morale. And then we go to each one in turn in an anticlockwise direction like the 9th is the 12th to the 10th. Jupiter ruling there means your aspirations for further studies may mean that you may brake your career temporarily to go for post-graduate studies (?) and Jupiter being placed in the 12th which is the 3rd of the 10th means the effort mabye tremendous (3rd rules effort and the 10th already signifies effort). And so on.
Then you may want to consider alternative lagnas like Surya, Moon, Arudha Lagna. Take that as a starting point and the houses Mars rule switch. For example, taking Moon as your Lagna, you have a Saggittarius Ascendant. This means Mars is ruling your 5th and 12th Houses. The 5th to the Moon is actually the 10th to your orignal Lagna. As the Moon is the next most important planet in the chart, this means that your ambitions (10th) is tinged by idealism (the 5th) and your idealism is tampered with emotions and compassion (the Moon Lagna now is being considered). Your 12th House to the Moon is also your 5th House to Lagna (both ruled by Mars). So you can be a slave, like a bondage (12th to the Moon), to thinking discriminately (5th to Lagna). You do not let issues dangling in the air. You follow them through to. That is your style. And the bondage is automatic (because Moon Lagna is the one considered for the 12th House enumeration).
Similary for Surya Lagna, look to it for health issues as the Sun rules our basic body constitution.
And there are many, many more ways a chart can be integrated like participating in a Yoga (a specialised planetary combination). Are they linked in the divisional charts? In fact the calculation of a strength of planet using Shadbala when broken into its components, each component each planet has a part to play in that role and because other planets also have roles, there is an interaction of roles and that's how Mars get further integrated.
Veidc Astrology is complex!
Thanks.
Hock Leong
Dear Koo Hock,
THank you for the analysis.
Re a couple of things: I completed graduate school as the final step of my education rather than take up a career and break it to go to grad school. However, in my late 30s I did change careers and this was a complete break with the past. I now pursue a second career. Im already at the top of that, as far as I can see, and am contemplating a THIRD career. I am indeed a slave to my career!
Also-I do pursue things to the bitter end and try not to leave a lot f threads hanging.
THank you for the analysis.
Re a couple of things: I completed graduate school as the final step of my education rather than take up a career and break it to go to grad school. However, in my late 30s I did change careers and this was a complete break with the past. I now pursue a second career. Im already at the top of that, as far as I can see, and am contemplating a THIRD career. I am indeed a slave to my career!
Also-I do pursue things to the bitter end and try not to leave a lot f threads hanging.
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Khoo Hock Leong
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Hi Porcija
Rahu in Cancer in the Ascendant is good as it wards off evil ie. per teaching from B V Raman and it is also mentioned in one of the classical texts. If the Moon (the dispositor of Rahu) aspects fully from the 7th, it is even better. It gives the person outspokenness and very positive. He also connects with people.
The following is a quote taken from Zoran Radosavljevic's website :
[quote]
Chandra in 12th house is the blessing of Devi. A person is strong in body and mind, healthy, easily recovers from disease, has good sleep and rest, powerful subconscious mind and intuition, good mind reader, and prevents from serious bodily damages. Mother will bless the person, though she may be unhappy around the birthtime of a person. A person will give to family and children, yet will not care too much for friends, unless they are close as family members.
[unquoe]
Thanks.
Hock Leong
Rahu in Cancer in the Ascendant is good as it wards off evil ie. per teaching from B V Raman and it is also mentioned in one of the classical texts. If the Moon (the dispositor of Rahu) aspects fully from the 7th, it is even better. It gives the person outspokenness and very positive. He also connects with people.
The following is a quote taken from Zoran Radosavljevic's website :
[quote]
Chandra in 12th house is the blessing of Devi. A person is strong in body and mind, healthy, easily recovers from disease, has good sleep and rest, powerful subconscious mind and intuition, good mind reader, and prevents from serious bodily damages. Mother will bless the person, though she may be unhappy around the birthtime of a person. A person will give to family and children, yet will not care too much for friends, unless they are close as family members.
[unquoe]
Thanks.
Hock Leong
Thank you Hock Leong,
It is interesting to confirm that my mother had a difficult delivery and was ill helth almost a year afterwards. Also i had a very happy, supportive childhood without forceful interference from my parents, teachers etc.
Porcija
It is interesting to confirm that my mother had a difficult delivery and was ill helth almost a year afterwards. Also i had a very happy, supportive childhood without forceful interference from my parents, teachers etc.
Porcija
Hi Khoo,
I have an additional question. With Saturn in 4 and Mars in 10, cancer Asc, and BOTH planets aspecting the lagna, how does this play out, given both saturn and mars are important planets for the cancer Asc? Does it strengthen the lagna, particularly as my lagna lord, moon, is in 6 conjunct rahu (but also venus and aspected by jupiter ketu).
I have an additional question. With Saturn in 4 and Mars in 10, cancer Asc, and BOTH planets aspecting the lagna, how does this play out, given both saturn and mars are important planets for the cancer Asc? Does it strengthen the lagna, particularly as my lagna lord, moon, is in 6 conjunct rahu (but also venus and aspected by jupiter ketu).
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Khoo Hock Leong
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Hi Maharani
Your Moon Ascendant is in Moola Nakshatra and in Sagittarius and both rulers (Ketu and Jupiter respectively) are in the 12th house. Jupiter is in addition in its own Nakshatra of Punarvasu and is the Atmakara, so the 12th house emphasis is very strong in your chart. In addition there is also a mutual exchange between Rahu and Ketu (with Ketu in Adra - Rahu's Nakshatra), so both your spirit and action for your Ascendant Lord Moon is geared towards the 12th (for spirit - the first dispoitor of the Moon's Nakshatra) and 6th (for action in tackling work - the dispositor of the dispositor of the Moon's Nakshatra) matters.
A planet's aspect to a house only contributes its effects up to a maximum of about 20% unless it also happens to be the significator of the house (how close it is to 20% depends on factors like whether it is in its own sign, the fullness of the aspect etc.). Saturn is not the significator of the 1st, Mars may give slightly more effects as it is a secondary significator for energy after the Sun which is the primary significator for health in the 1st. So notwithstanding the emphasis of the 6th-12th house axis mentioned in the 1st paragraph (for spirituality and precision in work etc.), in addition you do have inexhaustible energy to tackle your everyday tasks. Saturn's cautionary effect is less pronounced as indicated though because it is strong in Libra, it does have its effects as well.
(The other 80% effects to a house is taken up by the planets placed in the house, its lord aspects and placement and aspects by planets which are significator for the house. So in your case the Moon being the lord of the 1st have more effects on the 1st house and given the Nakshatra and sign dispositorships mentioned, the effects of the 6th-12th house axis kicks in).
Thanks.
Hock Leong
Your Moon Ascendant is in Moola Nakshatra and in Sagittarius and both rulers (Ketu and Jupiter respectively) are in the 12th house. Jupiter is in addition in its own Nakshatra of Punarvasu and is the Atmakara, so the 12th house emphasis is very strong in your chart. In addition there is also a mutual exchange between Rahu and Ketu (with Ketu in Adra - Rahu's Nakshatra), so both your spirit and action for your Ascendant Lord Moon is geared towards the 12th (for spirit - the first dispoitor of the Moon's Nakshatra) and 6th (for action in tackling work - the dispositor of the dispositor of the Moon's Nakshatra) matters.
A planet's aspect to a house only contributes its effects up to a maximum of about 20% unless it also happens to be the significator of the house (how close it is to 20% depends on factors like whether it is in its own sign, the fullness of the aspect etc.). Saturn is not the significator of the 1st, Mars may give slightly more effects as it is a secondary significator for energy after the Sun which is the primary significator for health in the 1st. So notwithstanding the emphasis of the 6th-12th house axis mentioned in the 1st paragraph (for spirituality and precision in work etc.), in addition you do have inexhaustible energy to tackle your everyday tasks. Saturn's cautionary effect is less pronounced as indicated though because it is strong in Libra, it does have its effects as well.
(The other 80% effects to a house is taken up by the planets placed in the house, its lord aspects and placement and aspects by planets which are significator for the house. So in your case the Moon being the lord of the 1st have more effects on the 1st house and given the Nakshatra and sign dispositorships mentioned, the effects of the 6th-12th house axis kicks in).
Thanks.
Hock Leong
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Khoo Hock Leong
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Hi Maharani
I forgot to mention amongst the 80% factors another factor (the 4th) is that the planet is in a sign that shares the same sign rulership as that particular house which we are concerned with. In this case of the context of your query, this factor does not apply as the Moon only rules one sign which is Cancer.
Thanks.
Hock Leong
I forgot to mention amongst the 80% factors another factor (the 4th) is that the planet is in a sign that shares the same sign rulership as that particular house which we are concerned with. In this case of the context of your query, this factor does not apply as the Moon only rules one sign which is Cancer.
Thanks.
Hock Leong
Thank you, but your explanation makes it sound almost as if the aspects dont matter (20%)! Yet they are usually strongly emphasized in discussions! THat just doesnt seem reasonable, both Mars and Saturn being so strong in my chart, particularly Mars.
I am a very work focused person, very action oriented, but not "spiritual" at all (ugh!)-it bores me to death. How else might the 12th house emphasis manifest? I hope not incarceration! I HAVE travelled a lot however.
I am a very work focused person, very action oriented, but not "spiritual" at all (ugh!)-it bores me to death. How else might the 12th house emphasis manifest? I hope not incarceration! I HAVE travelled a lot however.
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Khoo Hock Leong
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Hi Maharani
Just to clarify.
For Mars because it is a secondary signficator of the 1st house, I did not classify it as the 20%. Like I said the 20% is only for those planets which make an aspect but is not a signficator to that particular house. In this case because Mars is a secondary signifcator andit it is strong being in the sign of Aires, its weightage is higher.
For Saturn not so because it is not the significator for the 1st house. So its effects is grouped under the 20% bracket. But because it is Libra, it is strong, hovering the maximum of 20% plus it is in Kendra and we are talking about aspecting the Lagna.
It is just like Jupiter aspecting the 2nd House has more significance than say, Saturn aspecting the 2nd house irregardless of their sign placements (let's say we are talking about full aspects). The first denotes wealth usually but the second we have to decide whether there are other effects that can swamp Saturn's indication of frugality when related to the 2nd house.
If you look at the concept of Bhava Bala, it comprises of :
1. Bhavadhipathi Bala - Aggregate Shad Bala of the lord of the house
2. Bhava Digbala - Strength acquired by Bhavas falling in Signs.
3. Bhava Dristi Bala - Strength of Bhava aspected by planets.
So all aspects (whether from significators or non-significators) roughly constitute 33.33% weightage of the effects.
You may feel your strong Saturn effects - after all it disposits Mercury in the 7th House who in turn disposits the two 12th House planets, but Saturn being situated in the 4th House, it has more rub on your inner character than for its influence on the Lagna which deals for example your first response or reaction when presented with a stimulus whether being acquainted with a person or presented with a company report etc. You can be seduced by the external trappings (Mars effects on 1st stronger) and modify your opinion later.
Yes, 12th house do indicate travels. Spirituality is indicated by Sun, Rahu, Ketu and Jupiter in the 5th and 9th House of Navamsa but you have Moon and Venus instead. Your Jupiter, the Atmakara planet dealing with your yearnings in this lifetime is in the 6th house of Navamsa exactly opposite the 12th house dealing with spiritual matters. So your interest in spiritual things may be more to do with just acquiring the knowledge on how it would help you or apply it to your work place (Jupiter in the 6th in Navamsa - the Karakamsa on the 6th). In fact, I consider your interest in Jyotish as somewhat akin to the point I have just made.
This is a quote from Zoran Radosavljevic on Ketu in the 12th house :
[quote]
1. It is one of the worst position in a chart for a long and healthy marriage.
2. Ketu in this position will affect health and cause mistakes and wrong decisions. It can cause downfalls in profession, yet promote spiritual activities. For a spirituality it should be debilitated. It also causes accidents, unless benefic planet is placed in 4th house. It will damage younger siblings, and even kill one of them if Mars is in 9th house at the same time. It can give two marriages, unless guru or budha are in 5th house. And so on…
[unquote]
So the spirituality portion does not seem to apply to you notwithstanding Ketu being debilitated in the 12th (in Gemini) in your chart for the aforeseaid reason which I mentioned in the paragraph before. Marriage did not come to you, so point (1) does not apply but it does foretell your fortune in marriage if you ever did consider its possibility in the past or would want to consider the possibility of it in the future.
Thanks.
Hock Leong
Just to clarify.
For Mars because it is a secondary signficator of the 1st house, I did not classify it as the 20%. Like I said the 20% is only for those planets which make an aspect but is not a signficator to that particular house. In this case because Mars is a secondary signifcator andit it is strong being in the sign of Aires, its weightage is higher.
For Saturn not so because it is not the significator for the 1st house. So its effects is grouped under the 20% bracket. But because it is Libra, it is strong, hovering the maximum of 20% plus it is in Kendra and we are talking about aspecting the Lagna.
It is just like Jupiter aspecting the 2nd House has more significance than say, Saturn aspecting the 2nd house irregardless of their sign placements (let's say we are talking about full aspects). The first denotes wealth usually but the second we have to decide whether there are other effects that can swamp Saturn's indication of frugality when related to the 2nd house.
If you look at the concept of Bhava Bala, it comprises of :
1. Bhavadhipathi Bala - Aggregate Shad Bala of the lord of the house
2. Bhava Digbala - Strength acquired by Bhavas falling in Signs.
3. Bhava Dristi Bala - Strength of Bhava aspected by planets.
So all aspects (whether from significators or non-significators) roughly constitute 33.33% weightage of the effects.
You may feel your strong Saturn effects - after all it disposits Mercury in the 7th House who in turn disposits the two 12th House planets, but Saturn being situated in the 4th House, it has more rub on your inner character than for its influence on the Lagna which deals for example your first response or reaction when presented with a stimulus whether being acquainted with a person or presented with a company report etc. You can be seduced by the external trappings (Mars effects on 1st stronger) and modify your opinion later.
Yes, 12th house do indicate travels. Spirituality is indicated by Sun, Rahu, Ketu and Jupiter in the 5th and 9th House of Navamsa but you have Moon and Venus instead. Your Jupiter, the Atmakara planet dealing with your yearnings in this lifetime is in the 6th house of Navamsa exactly opposite the 12th house dealing with spiritual matters. So your interest in spiritual things may be more to do with just acquiring the knowledge on how it would help you or apply it to your work place (Jupiter in the 6th in Navamsa - the Karakamsa on the 6th). In fact, I consider your interest in Jyotish as somewhat akin to the point I have just made.
This is a quote from Zoran Radosavljevic on Ketu in the 12th house :
[quote]
1. It is one of the worst position in a chart for a long and healthy marriage.
2. Ketu in this position will affect health and cause mistakes and wrong decisions. It can cause downfalls in profession, yet promote spiritual activities. For a spirituality it should be debilitated. It also causes accidents, unless benefic planet is placed in 4th house. It will damage younger siblings, and even kill one of them if Mars is in 9th house at the same time. It can give two marriages, unless guru or budha are in 5th house. And so on…
[unquote]
So the spirituality portion does not seem to apply to you notwithstanding Ketu being debilitated in the 12th (in Gemini) in your chart for the aforeseaid reason which I mentioned in the paragraph before. Marriage did not come to you, so point (1) does not apply but it does foretell your fortune in marriage if you ever did consider its possibility in the past or would want to consider the possibility of it in the future.
Thanks.
Hock Leong
Last edited by Khoo Hock Leong on 07 May 2009, edited 1 time in total.
Thanks for the detailed analysis. Despite the somewhat depressing indicators for marriage in my chart I have actually been considering it. What can I expect in terms of a partner or marriage and what dasas might support this? At any rate, it would be nice to have a partner and in this modern world I dont think Id be too upset if I had a regular partner without a formal marriage. At my age I am hardly likely to insist on a fancy wedding w trappings which in my opinion is a waste of money and the bane of the Indian community. So-what does my chart say about partnership?
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Khoo Hock Leong
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Hi Rajitha
I suggest you go to Zoran Radosavljevic's website and refer to his article on Ketu in the 12th house and read the article from head to toe. There are 2 other points he mentioned besides the general indications for Ketu in the12th house (he is a Jaimini scholar).
(1) There are certain other indications in a chart which can block the said Ketu's general effects in the 12th house.
(2) He applies certain principles from his Jyotish Guru on Graha Phalam which cannot be found in the translated text from Jyotish classics.
Actually all the gurus who graduate from Sanjay Rath side I believe they all have a united strategy in deciding on who would concentrate on which area when disseminating their knowledge. So like for example Kota Chakra none of them deals with it because one of their fellow students has actually written a book on that but I manage to find another web site dealing with that.
Nobody in this world has 100% knowledge of everything and especially in a complex subjct like Vedic Astrology. You may not have all the details and facts, so it does not mean if you see a post in the blog which does not apply to you or which you have not heard off, it does not mean that it is not true.
For example, he praises Surya in the 12th like free from bondage and imprisonment, riches in society, high status when everyone of us know that Surya is in Maraka Karana Stanth. However, certain conditions would have to apply.
Thank you!
I suggest you go to Zoran Radosavljevic's website and refer to his article on Ketu in the 12th house and read the article from head to toe. There are 2 other points he mentioned besides the general indications for Ketu in the12th house (he is a Jaimini scholar).
(1) There are certain other indications in a chart which can block the said Ketu's general effects in the 12th house.
(2) He applies certain principles from his Jyotish Guru on Graha Phalam which cannot be found in the translated text from Jyotish classics.
Actually all the gurus who graduate from Sanjay Rath side I believe they all have a united strategy in deciding on who would concentrate on which area when disseminating their knowledge. So like for example Kota Chakra none of them deals with it because one of their fellow students has actually written a book on that but I manage to find another web site dealing with that.
Nobody in this world has 100% knowledge of everything and especially in a complex subjct like Vedic Astrology. You may not have all the details and facts, so it does not mean if you see a post in the blog which does not apply to you or which you have not heard off, it does not mean that it is not true.
For example, he praises Surya in the 12th like free from bondage and imprisonment, riches in society, high status when everyone of us know that Surya is in Maraka Karana Stanth. However, certain conditions would have to apply.
Thank you!
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Khoo Hock Leong
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I will cover the points of Ketu in 12th house which applies to your chart.
(1) There is a possibility of two marriages since Guru or Buddha is not in your 5th house.
(2) Ketu in 12th with Cancer Ascendant brings problems in childbirth.
As for other ways to interpret marriage, you can go to the following website blog :
groups[dot][No Personal Contact Details on Public Forum][dot]com[slash]group[slash]sohamsa[slash]message[slash]17514 to analyse the different aspects of marriage using different Vedic Astrology tools and indicators.
These include A7, Darakaraka, Venus, Jupiter, Upapada and the 7th house of the Navamsa. It then goes to give detailed description on how to use the Upapada Lord.
Thanks.
Hock Leong
(1) There is a possibility of two marriages since Guru or Buddha is not in your 5th house.
(2) Ketu in 12th with Cancer Ascendant brings problems in childbirth.
As for other ways to interpret marriage, you can go to the following website blog :
groups[dot][No Personal Contact Details on Public Forum][dot]com[slash]group[slash]sohamsa[slash]message[slash]17514 to analyse the different aspects of marriage using different Vedic Astrology tools and indicators.
These include A7, Darakaraka, Venus, Jupiter, Upapada and the 7th house of the Navamsa. It then goes to give detailed description on how to use the Upapada Lord.
Thanks.
Hock Leong
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Khoo Hock Leong
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- Joined: 03 Jan 2009
Hi Maharani
The question you asked about marriage I have posted it a few posts before this. I forgot to address to you and Rajitha thought it was meant for him. Please take a look at the website I refer to and if you have any further queries on how to interpret to me, you can put up a new post or Private Message to me.
Thanks.
Hock Leong
The question you asked about marriage I have posted it a few posts before this. I forgot to address to you and Rajitha thought it was meant for him. Please take a look at the website I refer to and if you have any further queries on how to interpret to me, you can put up a new post or Private Message to me.
Thanks.
Hock Leong
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Khoo Hock Leong
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Hi Rajitha
The answer to the post on marriage was not meant for you.
When you said personal chart, you mean the charts I interpret or my birth chart?
Actually I am quite objective. It could be you that is biased because I do not follow the orthodox ways of prediction, or to put another way, what you have been taught - actually I do use a lot of orthodox principles besides my other personal principles which I would not call unorthodox but my intuitive grasp of the subject of Vedic Astrology as mentioned in your another post. I try to incorporate as many information as I can from various sources.
Also it is best not to put me down like that in the forum in a thread. If you have something to say like that, you can just ask a simple question like where I get the source from or you can PM to me.
Do you know that Basab has to close the thread on the discussion of "Relationship of Planets in the 1st and 7th Houses" and then ask me for my interpretation of his chart in another post where I was talking about my chart because he knows the thread would not be disturbed there? (He may deny it, but he is such an intelligenet person, I am sure that was the reason).
Please have some consideration for others.
(Jupiter in the 9th by the way IS BIASED, BUT THEY DO NOT MEAN ANY HARM. They seldom realise their behaviour on the effects on others.)
But what's said and done, we would put it aside. :lol:
Please drop the thread for the marriage question as my answers were directed more for Maharani - I am sure you can interpret marriage on your chart unless you want to clarify something from Zoran which I am also sure you can decipher on your own unless you want some technical parlaying on the points raised in his site.
Hock Leong
The answer to the post on marriage was not meant for you.
When you said personal chart, you mean the charts I interpret or my birth chart?
Actually I am quite objective. It could be you that is biased because I do not follow the orthodox ways of prediction, or to put another way, what you have been taught - actually I do use a lot of orthodox principles besides my other personal principles which I would not call unorthodox but my intuitive grasp of the subject of Vedic Astrology as mentioned in your another post. I try to incorporate as many information as I can from various sources.
Also it is best not to put me down like that in the forum in a thread. If you have something to say like that, you can just ask a simple question like where I get the source from or you can PM to me.
Do you know that Basab has to close the thread on the discussion of "Relationship of Planets in the 1st and 7th Houses" and then ask me for my interpretation of his chart in another post where I was talking about my chart because he knows the thread would not be disturbed there? (He may deny it, but he is such an intelligenet person, I am sure that was the reason).
Please have some consideration for others.
(Jupiter in the 9th by the way IS BIASED, BUT THEY DO NOT MEAN ANY HARM. They seldom realise their behaviour on the effects on others.)
But what's said and done, we would put it aside. :lol:
Please drop the thread for the marriage question as my answers were directed more for Maharani - I am sure you can interpret marriage on your chart unless you want to clarify something from Zoran which I am also sure you can decipher on your own unless you want some technical parlaying on the points raised in his site.
Hock Leong
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Khoo Hock Leong
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- Joined: 03 Jan 2009
Hi
Just wanted to add this to the thread. In any relationshis between 2 people, the connection between two people can also be strong if the 1st house planets are friends with the other person's first house planets, the 7th house planets are friends with the other person's seventh house planets, and in the case of the chart where the planets all lined up like a wreath, the middle planet of one person is a friend also of the middle planet of the other person.
For the 1st and 7th houses we can use in place of it, the planet leading the wreath and the planet trailing the wreath respectively. So 1st house planet friend to planet leading the wreath and 7th house planet friend to planet trailing the wreath also promotes compatibility between the two persons.
Generally of the three points of contact, the most important is the 7th house or trailing planet contact as it involves adjustment for long term relationships. The middle contact is important for it deals with the inner core of each of the person's character which may add to the 7th house contact.
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Basab and Me :
Leading or 1st House Planet - Mars and Venus so neutral
Trailing or 7th House Planet - Venus and Saturn - great friends. Venus and Moon enemies but Saturn is stronger as it is the final ruler of the chart.
Middle Planet in the Wreath - Moon and Mars - great friends although Moon is neutral towards Mars.
Overall - very good
We are also both Cancerians in Tropical Astrology. Cancerians actually sympathise with each other.
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Rajitha and Me :
Leading or 1st House Planet - Venus and Saturn - great friend (we started out as great friend and we would still be friends as these are our natural dispositions). But Venus usually is the only planet that can dominate Saturn. If it had been the Sun or Jupiter, I think Saturn would have swallowed it up.
By the way Rajitha has Gemini Asc and I have Cancer Asc. So Mercury is friend to the Moon but Moon is enemy to Mercury especially Gemini because Gemini does not like to be in the 4th. But I give more weightage to the planets.
Middle Planet - Not applicable as I think Rajitha does not have a wreath kind of combination in his chart.
In that case if the other person has a middle planet, this influence would be split 50-50 between this current person's 1st and last planet. So we analyse this way.
Mars and Saturn - Enemies. Mars would always set up the destruction altar for Saturn.
Rajitha, do you have a 7th house planet? If not, then would have to use the sign placed there. Mars (my middle planet) goes with Jupiter the 7th lord. So good friends. I think Rajitha does not mind my intense pursuit of astroloy.
7th house or Trailing Planet - If we use Jupiter, Saturn and Jupiter are enemies and Saturn keeps a stranglehold on Jupiter.
Overall : Have to emphasise more on the Saturn and Venus contact points in the 1st house. Then things will work out well. But it looks like I have an edge over Rajitha with all my corresponding planets having a more superior hold on his corresponding planet. Hmmmm....
------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Rajitha,
Let's put the past behind us.
Thanks.
Hock Leong
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Just wanted to add this to the thread. In any relationshis between 2 people, the connection between two people can also be strong if the 1st house planets are friends with the other person's first house planets, the 7th house planets are friends with the other person's seventh house planets, and in the case of the chart where the planets all lined up like a wreath, the middle planet of one person is a friend also of the middle planet of the other person.
For the 1st and 7th houses we can use in place of it, the planet leading the wreath and the planet trailing the wreath respectively. So 1st house planet friend to planet leading the wreath and 7th house planet friend to planet trailing the wreath also promotes compatibility between the two persons.
Generally of the three points of contact, the most important is the 7th house or trailing planet contact as it involves adjustment for long term relationships. The middle contact is important for it deals with the inner core of each of the person's character which may add to the 7th house contact.
-----------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Basab and Me :
Leading or 1st House Planet - Mars and Venus so neutral
Trailing or 7th House Planet - Venus and Saturn - great friends. Venus and Moon enemies but Saturn is stronger as it is the final ruler of the chart.
Middle Planet in the Wreath - Moon and Mars - great friends although Moon is neutral towards Mars.
Overall - very good
We are also both Cancerians in Tropical Astrology. Cancerians actually sympathise with each other.
----------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Rajitha and Me :
Leading or 1st House Planet - Venus and Saturn - great friend (we started out as great friend and we would still be friends as these are our natural dispositions). But Venus usually is the only planet that can dominate Saturn. If it had been the Sun or Jupiter, I think Saturn would have swallowed it up.
By the way Rajitha has Gemini Asc and I have Cancer Asc. So Mercury is friend to the Moon but Moon is enemy to Mercury especially Gemini because Gemini does not like to be in the 4th. But I give more weightage to the planets.
Middle Planet - Not applicable as I think Rajitha does not have a wreath kind of combination in his chart.
In that case if the other person has a middle planet, this influence would be split 50-50 between this current person's 1st and last planet. So we analyse this way.
Mars and Saturn - Enemies. Mars would always set up the destruction altar for Saturn.
Rajitha, do you have a 7th house planet? If not, then would have to use the sign placed there. Mars (my middle planet) goes with Jupiter the 7th lord. So good friends. I think Rajitha does not mind my intense pursuit of astroloy.
7th house or Trailing Planet - If we use Jupiter, Saturn and Jupiter are enemies and Saturn keeps a stranglehold on Jupiter.
Overall : Have to emphasise more on the Saturn and Venus contact points in the 1st house. Then things will work out well. But it looks like I have an edge over Rajitha with all my corresponding planets having a more superior hold on his corresponding planet. Hmmmm....
------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Rajitha,
Let's put the past behind us.
Thanks.
Hock Leong
------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
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Khoo Hock Leong
- Frequent Contributor
- Posts: 7758
- Joined: 03 Jan 2009
Hi Rajitha
Glad you are back. Actually I read in the scriptures website which I posted the URL, they say Moon and Mercury are more friends than enemies because both have something to do with thinking.
Also I guess only Saturn being a tamaric temperament can accept Venus rajastic temperament and her kindness even though she follows the teching of the demons.
You have your plus points and so does Basab individualistic way of doing things - his Mars is his leading planet.
Welcome back!
Hock Leong
Glad you are back. Actually I read in the scriptures website which I posted the URL, they say Moon and Mercury are more friends than enemies because both have something to do with thinking.
Also I guess only Saturn being a tamaric temperament can accept Venus rajastic temperament and her kindness even though she follows the teching of the demons.
You have your plus points and so does Basab individualistic way of doing things - his Mars is his leading planet.
Welcome back!
Hock Leong
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Khoo Hock Leong
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- Posts: 7758
- Joined: 03 Jan 2009
Hi Rajitha
I forgot to add that my Saturnis on Basab's Venus (the trailing planets) so the Venus-Saturn relationship is more on a kind of mutual respect and ajustment. Good and permanet. And I look at Basab's kindness. It makes for stabilising relationship.
But your Saturn is on my Venus (the initiating planets) so the looking through the veil is from you to me. But because it is the initiating planet, each new situation that arises or crops out would have to be taken and judged on its own merit. It makes for a fun relationship.
Astrology is really illuminating.
Hock Leog
I forgot to add that my Saturnis on Basab's Venus (the trailing planets) so the Venus-Saturn relationship is more on a kind of mutual respect and ajustment. Good and permanet. And I look at Basab's kindness. It makes for stabilising relationship.
But your Saturn is on my Venus (the initiating planets) so the looking through the veil is from you to me. But because it is the initiating planet, each new situation that arises or crops out would have to be taken and judged on its own merit. It makes for a fun relationship.
Astrology is really illuminating.
Hock Leog
