Celebrating The Combustion of Saturn...

[Saindhavi]

Anuradha,

I don't know how Lord Krishna's chart was generated - some later texts talk about it, but those texts are a few centuries later at least - we don't have the exact year of birth of Krishna. So, I wouldn't go by the references in later texts.

Greater probability is that these references are more metaphorical than realistic, as is usually the case with such figures.

About debilitated Saturn, if this Saturn is in 3rd house for example, yes, its aspect on 5th, 9th and 12th would be benefic, provided there are no malefic aspects on these houses.

However, if this Saturn is in 2nd house, it will block the effect of 2nd house and will enhance the effect of 8th house, though will also give benefic effect of 4th and 11th houses. Hence, this Saturn will be partially benefic. In 6th house, this Saturn will control illnesses, but will enhance the effect of 8th, 12th and 3rd houses, so it will be largely malefic. So, we have to see where it is placed and where it is aspecting.

[anuradha]

Madam, Your reply is not relevant to what I HAVE WRITTEN. I was referring to your concept of exalted aspect of debilitated planet. To understand the of debilitation we can go through the classics like Jataka bharnaum and apply it to few charts. Debilitated planets gives very good result as per B.P.H.S in 3, 6, 8 and 12H and proved by Sh K.N Raoji in many charts. Debilitation has many meaning like weak, mean[neecha] and also opposite to the inherent nature of the planet e.g Saturn in his sign of debilitation. The nature of Saturn and of the sign of Aries is quite opposed to each other. Saturn is very mature, hard working and Aries is a sign of hurry. Therefore the native some such qualities which are obstructive to success. Thus he gets lazy, is of irritable nature, quarrelsome , gets his energy and efficiency decayed in it. A benefice neecha tries to behave like a malefic and a malefic neech tries to be like a benefice. In the chart of S. R.K , Sun is in debilitation in 3H, giving him the rajyoga as per B.P.H.S and also made him an artist. In case of the mega star of the century, debilitated Venus in 8H,, has given him the rajyoga as per B.P.H.S, since the lord of 9H[5th from 5th] , behaving like a malefic , studied science. Regards

[Saindhavi]

Anuradha,

I have said this above and am saying again - I NEVER said a debilitated planet gives an exalted effect on the opposite house.

I said a debilitated planet can't give the effect of the house where it is placed, but rather, it will give a mild effect of its opposite house, since that house being its house of exaltation, has to derive energy from this planet's aspect even if it's weak.

Your point of Saturn in Aries making the native lazy etc will be valid if Saturn is in Ascendant. But if debilitation is in another house, it will block the effect of that house and give the effect of its 3 aspects.

Whether this effect is good or bad depends upon the houses where debilitated Saturn is casting its 3rd, 7th and 10th aspects.

I don't know Shah Rukh Khan's birth details, so can't comment on that.

[anuradha]

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[Saindhavi]

I am saying what I am saying on the basis of the charts I have read - theories not withstanding.

I understand that you and many people follow different methods than mine and that's fine by me. We all can believe and follow differently.

[astroboy]

Good day Saindhavi ji,

please help me understand "a exalted planet will give debilitated aspects on the 7th house from where it is" theory better. Can we apply it to this chart ? what do you think is happening here? Let us concentrate on the shani and Kuja alone, leave the rest of the chart out. What according to you is going on between Shani and Kuja? and what is the impact of kuja's aspect on the 10th and the 11th house ? What according to you is happening to the 7th house, specially since the 7th is aspected by a debilitated Kuja.

N 8.jpg

Mars - Shadbala Rupas - 5.19 / DrigBala - (+) 12.32
Saturn - Shad Bala Rupas - 7.69 / Drig bala - (-) 14.37

[anuradha]

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[astroboy]

Let me tell you what I think is happening. Kuja is a much sober man in this chart because of his positive Digbala. But when stressed he comes crashing down like a pack of cards. Shani is the notorious one here. he not only aspects Kuja, he is most malefic since kuja aspects him. Both will one day create havoc in the natives life. make no mistake about it, it is Shani who is guarding the 10th and the 11th house with his exaltation. Kujas aspect is of a debilitated one. The sucess of the native in career and income fronts is because of the exalted Shani and not because of Kuja's aspect on the 10th and the 11th house. What is your opinion ?

[Saindhavi]

Good Day Astroboy,

Exalted Saturn will bring good partnerships - personal and professional - and also financial gains. However, Mars will cause problems in these partnerships and loss of finance.

Saturn will protect the 7th house despite obstacles caused by Mars, but Mars periods will be bad for 11th house. Saturn may not be able to save it.

10th house - Mars aspects it positively and its lord is exalted. Hence, 10th house is in a good position.

Lagna - is debilitated because of Saturn's aspect and Lagna Lord is also debilitated - as Anuradha said above, laziness, wrong decisions, tendency to get into conflicts etc. Besides, illnesses, depression, anxieties, and a general tendency not to be kind-hearted, unless Jupiter, Moon or Sun aspect the Lagna, which will change the reading drastically.

9th house - spoilt by Saturn, unless a favourable benefic aspects it.

4th house - spoilt by Saturn and Mars together, unless Jupiter and Moon are placed there. Even if Jupiter and Moon are in 4th, problems may occur during Saturn and Mars periods.

Of course, Jupiter, Moon and Sun will change the reading significantly in this chart. Hence, we should see the whole chart to get proper reading.

PS - you posted while I was typing. So, I'll add - 10th house is protected by Saturn and Mars both, as I said above. I typed before seeing your response.

[astroboy]

Dear Saindhavi,
you wrote,

Saturn will protect the 7th house despite obstacles caused by Mars, but Mars periods will be bad for 11th house. Saturn may not be able to save it.

why not for the 10th house ? Is it because of your next statement? and so the 10th is saved?

10th house - Mars aspects it positively and its lord is exalted. Hence, 10th house is in a good position.

The 11th house is the significator for "income from career" dont you think the 10th should be disrupted first for the 11th house to be damaged? How can Kuja do good with one aspect and bad with the other? What I fail to understand is - If a planet is debilitated itself how on earth can it cast a exalted glance ? and if a planet is exalted how can it cast a debilitated glance ? More over what puzzles me even more is how can Kuja throw a exalted glance with its 7th aspect and debilitating glance with the next (8th) aspect.

Lagna - is debilitated because of Saturn's aspect and Lagna Lord is also debilitated - as Anuradha said above, laziness, wrong decisions, tendency to get into conflicts etc. Besides, illnesses, depression, anxieties, and a general tendency not to be kind-hearted, unless Jupiter, Moon or Sun aspect the Lagna, which will change the reading drastically.

wrong. The native if hale and hearty. is extremely intelligent, and is doing extremely well.Lagna lord Kuja gets a Neecha Bhanga since its in a Kendra and is aspected by Shani who is the lord of Kuja's exaltation sign. No planet other than Shani aspects the lagna. This is ample proof that a exalted planet does not debilitate the 7th house.

PS - you posted while I was typing. So, I'll add - 10th house is protected by Saturn and Mars both, as I said above. I typed before seeing your response.

why and how does Shani protect the 10th house ? why not the 11th too ? Both houses belong to Shani. why the partiality?

[Saindhavi]

Astroboy,

I type below my responses to you in blue -

Dear Saindhavi,
you wrote,
Saturn will protect the 7th house despite obstacles caused by Mars, but Mars periods will be bad for 11th house. Saturn may not be able to save it.

why not for the 10th house ? Is it because of your next statement? and so the 10th is saved?
10th house - Mars aspects it positively and its lord is exalted. Hence, 10th house is in a good position.

Yes, because of the next sentence. Also because 10th house is related to the professional partnerships shown by the exalted 7th house.

The 11th house is the significator for "income from career" dont you think the 10th should be disrupted first for the 11th house to be damaged? How can Kuja do good with one aspect and bad with the other? What I fail to understand is - If a planet is debilitated itself how on earth can it cast a exalted glance ? and if a planet is exalted how can it cast a debilitated glance ? More over what puzzles me even more is how can Kuja throw a exalted glance with its 7th aspect and debilitating glance with the next (8th) aspect.

1 - I said several times above that this is NOT exalted glance of Mars; it is a mild positive glance on its exaltation house - the power of this glance is low. In the same way, Saturn's glance is a strong negative glance on the ascendant, which happens to be its debilitation house.

2 - Mars will do good to its 10th house which is its exaltation house and will do bad to 11th house which is its inimical house. Hence, 10th will be protected, but not 11th during Mars periods and transit aspects on 11th. This interpretation is meant for only Mars periods and transits. In general terms, this means that the native's career will be protected, but during Mars periods the native may face financial loss. This doesn't mean that the career will be ruined, because 10th is protected. The financial loss is a short-term effect during Mars periods and during Mars transit aspects on 11th. Protection of career is a long-term general effect. Financial loss may happen in many ways, not necessarily because of disruption of career.

Lagna - is debilitated because of Saturn's aspect and Lagna Lord is also debilitated - as Anuradha said above, laziness, wrong decisions, tendency to get into conflicts etc. Besides, illnesses, depression, anxieties, and a general tendency not to be kind-hearted, unless Jupiter, Moon or Sun aspect the Lagna, which will change the reading drastically.


wrong. The native if hale and hearty. is extremely intelligent, and is doing extremely well.Lagna lord Kuja gets a Neecha Bhanga since its in a Kendra and is aspected by Shani who is the lord of Kuja's exaltation sign. No planet other than Shani aspects the lagna. This is ample proof that a exalted planet does not debilitate the 7th house.

The native will suffer from wrong decisions, anxiety and depression during Saturn periods and transit aspects, if s/he doesn't show any of the traits mentioned above. S/he is also a temperamental person and quarrels easily, or may show these traits during Saturn periods and transit aspects. Saturn's aspect is bad for 4th house and for Mars and will show result at some stage during Saturn's period or transit aspects. I do hope and wish it won't be too bad.

People who are ruled or influenced by Saturn cause a lot of anxiety and depression to this native, or they will cause it during Saturn's periods and transit aspects.

As for his/her doing extremely well, being in good health and being intelligent, we have to see the whole chart.

PS - you posted while I was typing. So, I'll add - 10th house is protected by Saturn and Mars both, as I said above. I typed before seeing your response.

why and how does Shani protect the 10th house ? why not the 11th too ? Both houses belong to Shani. why the partiality?

I answered this above. this sentence was in response to your sentence that 10th is protected by Saturn, not by Mars. I see it as protected by Saturn AND Mars. I understand that these are two different ways of seeing.

Now, I'll ask you a question -

I quote from your earlier comment -

Shani is the notorious one here. he not only aspects Kuja, he is most malefic since kuja aspects him. Both will one day create havoc in the natives life.

So, how do you see this malefic Saturn (in your own words) as giving benefic effects of the Lagna and of the 4th house and of Mars? Don't you think that this statement of yours is similar to my reading, though in a different language?

[astroboy]

You, my dear madam, have failed to make a clear distinction between the following

A exalted natural Malefic
A exalted functional Malefic
A debilitated Malefic
A debilitated Functional malefic.

You need to understand how these four sets function first. You will automatically drop your theory.

Let me explain why Shani is Notorious. Shani in this case is a exalted natural Malefic. Shani is also a badhaka egged on by another malefic Kuja. Shani has given everything to the native. He has given all the significations of the 1st 4th, 7th, 9th 10th and the 11th in full measure.

But ........ You must understand how a Natural exalted malefic works. He will give you everything, but will also deliver a parcel of exalted problems with it. You have not understood the basic difference of how an exalted Malefic and an exalted Benefic works. This is why you need to bank on the theory that an exalted planet gives debilitated results to the 7th house.

Shani is involved in Sasa yoga. Please read my write up on Sasa yoga, you will understand how Shani works. A exalted malefic in this case Shani, will provide immense material benefits through aspects, house ownership and placement but will simultaneously give exalted problems with it . Understanding this seeming paradox is one of the major hurdles a student of Jyotish must cross and till that time, I am sorry to say that unless a student of astrology understands this paradox, the predictive ability of that student will be stunted, to put it mildly.

A exalted malefic is a sort of an elegant rogue, an iron fist in a velvet glove. A exalted malefic with his strength and “feel good” factor thinks he can get away with anything, and that puts the native in exalted problems every now and then. It has nothing to do with the debilitated aspect of a exalted planet on the 7th house from where the exalted planet is placed. Get that theory out of your head. If you still want to embrace it, you do so at your own risk.

[astroboy]

For example the native in this case has plenty of men falling at her feet. Shani who is in the 7th has ensured that. However Shani is in Bala Avastha and all her relationships last as long as a baby’s attention span on its toys. She tends to drift away from her relationships. The exaltation of Shani in her 7th ensures that the next man is waiting by her doorsteps. Shani gave her, and continues to give her powerful lovers, but since Shani hates marriage, none of those powerful lovers last for long. This paradox puts her under stress all the time.

Shani aspects the 4th house. It gave her two apartments in the best parts of the city. But he ensured that she would never stay there. Moreover, her “peace” at home was never achieved though he gave her exalted homes in the best parts of the world. You do not understand Shani, if Shani had cast a debilitating aspect on Kuja, she would have been in a slum in Buenos Aires. Remember Kuja is the significator for “land and property”, and the 4th house is the significator for “homes”

Had Shani aspected the 7th house, ie in this case the lagna, with a debilitating aspect, she would have been sickly, aged before her time, and been ugly. Note that the lagna lord is debilitated. but on the contrary, She is exceedingly beautiful, smart, intelligent, and carries herself with elegance. But at the same time this beauty which Shani has given has made her vain and arrogant. She thinks she can get away with anything at any time. But she forgets the status of the lagna lord. Shani has given her that intelligent swagger where she thinks she is the best thing that happened to this world. Is that good? I leave it to you to decide.

Shani aspects the 9th and the 4th. It gave her wonderful parents from whom she derived wonderful DNA. But she always behaves alien with them.

Understand the traits of the planet involved, apply them to every chart and you will find that your theory is defunct and does not stand a chance in the light of other factors.

[astroboy]

Marlyn Monroe.jpg

Marlyn Monroe.jpg

Needs no introduction. Shani aspects her 10th house of career, and the 11th lord Shukra from the 4th house. Can you say that Shani aspected her 10th house with a debilitated Aspect? More over he aspects the Lagna. Tell me if he has aspected it with A debilitated aspect or not.

[anuradha]

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[astroboy]

Thank you Anu ji,
Saindhavi, what do you think is happening here? Guru who is a natural benefic 1st class who becomes a functional Malefic for Tula lagna. Now dont confuse issues. What wil Guru do and how will he act for this lagna?

Functional Malefic.jpg

[Saindhavi]

Astroboy,

Through all these quotations, charts and image etc, you have not answered my basic question -


So, how do you see this malefic Saturn (in your own words) as giving benefic effects of the Lagna and of the 4th house and of Mars?

[astroboy]

Conditional Malefic - Benefic.jpg

We have to be very careful when we analyse Budha. Budha can turn Malefic when he is with a Malefic.

[astroboy]

by Saindhavi » Thu Oct 13, 2011 10:05 am
Astroboy,

Through all these quotations, charts and image etc, you have not answered my basic question -
So, how do you see this malefic Saturn (in your own words) as giving benefic effects of the Lagna and of the 4th house and of Mars?

That means you have not read a single line of what I have written. Fair enough. If you want to stick by your theory its your loss. .

[anuradha]

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[astroboy]

Take my advice, if Jyotish is your passion then seek a good Guru or discuss some horoscopes with practitioners of Jyotish whenever you can. Dr Robert Svoboda says "those who rely solely on written record devoid as it is of tonality cadence rhythm and expression risk failing to see the forest for the trees." A single word from a teacher discussing horoscope analysis is equal to a thousand written words from a classical text.”[

[astroboy]

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[anuradha]

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[che]

Hi all,

it is intresting that Dr.Svoboda in his Light on Life pg 373 while discussing Indira Gandhi's horoscope says

" Saturn does participate in a desirable Parivartana Maha Yoga , but also produces problems for the Cancer ascendant because it is a natural malefic which aspects Gandhi's tenth house into its debilitation rashi."

Only for this horoscope did he use such an analysis...but still...

thanks

[Saindhavi]

Astroboy,

About Marylin Monroe -

If you read her biography you will know how much she suffered in her life. She had severe chronic depression, was abused by the men in her life and finally committed suicide.

Don't see her as a legendary glamourous icon. See her as a woman born in lower middle-class who was exploited and abused all her life by powerful men and who struggled very hard to achieve what she achieved.

She achieved what she achieved not because of exalted Saturn's aspect on 10th. Saturn ensured that she struggled very hard, was exploited and abused all her life. She craved for human love and understanding all her life, which she never got, thanks to Saturn.

God forbid that any woman should have the life and fate of Marylin Monroe the woman, the human being, not the silver screen icon.

She achieved what she achieved not because of the exalted Saturn's aspect on 10th, but because of 11th lord Venus - signifier of art forms in 10th and Moon's aspect on Lagna.

If you would look behind the glamorous mask and see the real woman, you would say - yes, exalted Saturn's malefic aspect on the Lagna and its debilitation of the 10th house is clear in her chart.

For an actress' horoscope, Venus and Moon take the paramount importance, not Saturn. Success in art forms is not ruled by Saturn, even if Saturn is the cause behind the success of a native.

I hope despite being a man, you'd be able to feel for Marylin Monroe the woman's life and understand her chart better in that light.

PS - Similarly, the native whose Saturn and Mars you showed suffers from anxiety and depression as I said above because of Saturn's aspect on the Lagna and Mars; and debilitation of Mars. I don't know the whole chart, so can't say how other planets modify this reading. But I am sure she suffers from anxiety and depression in greater or lesser measure from time to time, from the 2 planets I have seen.

I hope that just as in case of Marylin Monroe, despite being a man, you'll be able to look beyond her glamorous profile and by how many men are falling at her feet and be able to understand her chart better by seeing the woman, the human being, who is being subjected to anxiety and depression by the people who come into her life.

I said exalted Saturn has spoilt her Bhagya in 9th - she is truly an unfortunate woman.

Have you ever thought about how much more depressing and melancholic it can be for a glamorous and brilliant woman to crave for human understanding and not get it, despite having a glamorous and brilliant personality, while many average and less than average women enjoy a happy personal life?

Regards