Spirituality Is A Mental Disease

[Dev]

I want to share my view on this subject. I was always associated with music. In my childhood one of my biggest doubts was why in Carnatic Music they only sing in praise of God. About some time back, I think I finally understood.

Hi 1234:

It is not true that carnatic music is always sung in praise of God. It is also sung in praise of the country, in praise of Devatas, Navagrahas and so on. Sometimes, they are even sung scolding God, finding fault with him saying he is merciless and so on.

Dev

[kandhan]

Sometimes, they are even sung scolding God, finding fault with him saying he is merciless and so on. Dev

This is news for me Devji. Any specific kirtana you could give as example? maybe its one of those Gopis scolding Krishna like in love-hate relationships?

[chaks]

Kandhan, remember a guy named Bharathiar? . All his patriotic and other songs were tuned in carnatic ragas and most are sung by carnatic artists. You sure remember the famous Chinanchirukiliye.

[kandhan]

Boss, i think he was referring to the kirtanas of Carnatic Music composers.

but i love Chinachirukiliye. in the hands of right composers, all his songs are soulful.

[chaks]

Main stream carnatic is all God. The famous Trinity and other composers have composed only on God.

[Dev]

Hi Kandhan and Chaks:

No, actually for eg Tyagaraja has composed on Narada who is not God.
He has composed on Guru who is not God. He says in one kriti, Guru is essential for upliftment.
He has composed on Anjaneya.
He has composed also many songs where he says God is unkind.
Of course, it may be called nindastuti.
Being closer to God, he can afford to do that.
In one song, it starts as Enduku nirdaya, which is telugu, it means why you are unkind.

Apart from the trinities, others are also carnatic music composers like Papanasam Sivan who was called Tamil tyagarajar. He has composed in Sanskrit, tamil & telugu.
He has also composed songs where he says God is unkind. He also composed on devatas too.

Also all these are carnatic music, it is not those composed by the so called Trinity alone.
Purandaradasa has composed on Tyagaraja himself. He has composed so many on Gurus as well.
So many composers have composed kriti on Tyagaraja too.
It is because of their closeness to God they find fault with him. In some songs of course they praise and in some they find fault. They can do that, not we. Of course, we would only be finding fault whenever we have problems.

Dev

[digitsoftime]

Hi Kandhan ji,

There are also lots of Thillanas composed by Lalgudi and others which are considered main stream carnatic but not especially in praise of God or deities.
Raga Alapanas are also mainstream Carnatic not in particular praise of any one.
Or are you only talking about songs?

regards,
S

[Dev]

But each raga is linked with a raga devata and so one has to think of the devata before singing the raga.
Tillanas do have words in charanam which are mostly in praise of God.

Dev

[digitsoftime]

Dear Dev ji,
Thanks for the info.
By the way, do you know of some songs in Kapi Narayani (apart from Sarasa Samadhana) and Naari Reetigowla? I have been looking for some for a long time.

sincerely,
Sunny

[Nitin21]

sunnyji ur signature is nice

[digitsoftime]

Oh my God
Sonu ji, I was damn worried that you might find the mistake in it.
Looks like I am learning a bit.

Its actually a from Thirukkural (acc. to Chaks ji, It means Mr.Voice), written by an ancient Tamil saint Thiruvalluvar.
It means 'Even if there are things that God can't help, human effort will definitely pay some dividends'


by not sleeping you are aspiring to be great

sincerely,
Sunny

[kandhan]

Hi Kandhan ji,

There are also lots of Thillanas composed by Lalgudi and others which are considered main stream carnatic but not especially in praise of God or deities.
Raga Alapanas are also mainstream Carnatic not in particular praise of any one.
Or are you only talking about songs?

regards,
S

Sunnyji

i was talking about mainstream Carnatic compositions by the Trinity, for which Boss has given the info.

Its actually a from Thirukkural (acc. to Chaks ji, It means Mr.Voice), written by an ancient Tamil saint Thiruvalluvar.

Boss, this translation should get you back into Sonuji's Tamil classes.

[R V RAMANAN]

Dear Kandhan,

U r right! Sunny thinks it is 'Kural' (voice). Actually Sunny Kural is the name of a particular form of poetry which has its grammar as follows:

First line containing four words and the following one three. In most of the words used the grammar of these words used will fall in the category "Iyar seer vendalai" or "Ven seer vendalai". Ivai irendum mattume kural venbaakalil viravi varum.
Sonu u can take over from now.
Regards,
RAMANAN

[Dev]

Hi Sunny:

Nice to know about your interests.
In kapinarayani, sarasasamadana is the main kriti. Hope u know the background. It is janya of harikambhoji the 28th mela. Harikambhoji has maximum no of janyas like the common kambhoji, then several others like kapinarayani, esamanohari etc. Since they are very similar to the main raga and since scope is less, we dont have many compositions. May be Ravikiran has composed a varna or kriti if I remember right. I dont have it now.

Nari ReethiGowla is 20th Mela in Dikshitar school (Sampradaya Pradarshini) and in the normal one, it is NataBhairavi. But both are different. Nilotpalamba bhajare and Srinilotpalanayike are the kritis.
This has suddha daivatam and is mela unlike ritigowla which has chatusruti and is janya and is janya of karaharapriya.
Nilotpalamba is sung in Ritigowlai now but some say it should be sung with sudda daivatam.

Dev

[Nitin21]

Good going guys you all are learning tamil well. I am proud of you.

[kandhan]

Dear Kandhan,

U r right! Sunny thinks it is 'Kural' (voice). Actually Sunny Kural is the name of a particular form of poetry which has its grammar as follows:

First line containing four words and the following one three. In most of the words used the grammar of these words used will fall in the category "Iyar seer vendalai" or "Ven seer vendalai". Ivai irendum mattume kural venbaakalil viravi varum. Sonu u can take over from now. Regards,RAMANAN

Sir, how come i never got to see your library. i wont commit that mistake this time.

Good going guys you all are learning tamil well. I am proud of you.

all credits to you Guruji.

[R V RAMANAN]

Dear Kandhan,

U never got to c it bcos its not there.

Regards,
RAMANAN

[kandhan]

Sir

So how do yo do this? do you/or did you borrow from libraries or friends etc? whats your MO?

[Nitin21]

Sir

So how do yo do this? do you/or did you borrow from libraries or friends etc? whats your MO?

Kandhanji I think you forgot the title of this thread

[R V RAMANAN]

Dear kandhan,

i just write what i remember of what i have learnt.i have no access to any books or any other form of references becos i have no net connection at home andi mainly browse from some one elses office or house.

regards
ramanan

[kandhan]

Sir

So how do yo do this? do you/or did you borrow from libraries or friends etc? whats your MO?

Kandhanji I think you forgot the title of this thread

[chaks]

Hi Kandhan ji,

There are also lots of Thillanas composed by Lalgudi and others which are considered main stream carnatic but not especially in praise of God or deities.
Raga Alapanas are also mainstream Carnatic not in particular praise of any one.
Or are you only talking about songs?

regards,
S

Raga alapanas? . Even there is no God in swara singing and the mrudangam and ghatam players dont play to God since there are no words in their play . Mind you cant include the vilonist or the flautist here since they are supposed to be mimicking the words

[R V RAMANAN]

Dear Chaks,

U included every instrument but forgot the main thing! - Jalra!!
Even it doesnt talk of God. Its only chink-chuck.

Regards,
RAMANAN

[chaks]

Sir you don't know anything about carnatic music it seems . You belong to a bajana goshti

[kandhan]

Sir

i think the very definition of Jalra is "you are god".