Spirituality, Astrology, Destiny, B. Geeta, Celibacy

[Sudarshang]

What does a person do after getting Moksha? Will he still possess a mind at that stage to think?

A very good question. I think if one atains moksha, then His soul merges with God and He has no more mind or brain or physical body...

My schools differs slightly here, and again I am only stating what I have learned (of which I am convinced). I am not here to transform or convert other people to my school.

My sources for this answer includes specific works of Adi Shankara and Swami Ramanuja (even though they are from two different schools, they seem to have agreed on this aspect). Since we are discussing about moksha I am only going to discuss here what happens from the time of death of the person who is about to attain moksha. The sources for what I am going write includes a scripture called archiradi gati, Swami Ramanuja's sharanagati gadyam, and verses form Thiruvaimozhi by Swami Nammazhwar (Part of 4000 diva prabandham, the tamil vedas, practiced as vedas in south indian temples called divya-desams), Adi Shankara's Sri Ranganatha Stotram.

Firstly, Mind is matter (a sookshma sharira, but a sharira nevertheless). When the body falls (when the person dies), the Aatma does a visarjan (gives up) of the sthoola (physical) and sookshma (subtle) sharira (bodies). AT that instant (when the visarjan is taking place) the knowledge of "Swaroopa" dawns on the Jeevatma. Swaroopa Jnana means, what is the Jeevatma in relation to the Paramatma. Thereafter, the Vishnudhootas take the Jeevatma that going to attain Moksha to the Vishnu-loka or Parama Pada or Sri Vikuntha as it is called. The Path thus taken to Sri Vaikuntha is called "Archiradi Marga". It is an exclusive path for those Jeevatmas that attain Moksha. Those that do not attain Moksha leave by a path called as "Dhoomati Marga", the destination of which is Yama Loka. There is another Path taken by Sanyasins (i dont know the name of the route) - but they reach Indra-Loka (Sanyasins do not fall in Yama's Jurisdiction).

Enroute on the Archiradi Marga, the Jeevatma passes through a number of deva-lokas - including Indra's world, Varuna's world, and even Brahma's Satya Loka. Even though all of them invite the Jeevatma to visit them, the Jeevatma is in a hurry to get its Moksha and politely declines these invitations to go on to Sri Vaikuntha.

At Sri Vaikuntha, before it enters, there is a river called the "Viraja River". The Jeevatma takes a dip in the Viraja River. When it comes out after taking a dip, it acquires a new "Sharira". The difference between the sharira we have on earth and the Sharira we take on in the Sri Vaikuntha is in the "gunas". On earth, our shariras (and everything in nature) is composed of the gunas of Sattva, Rajas, and Tamas. However, the Sharira we take on in Sri Vaikuntha is composed of "Shudda Sattva" guna. For that reason it is called "Diva-Mangala-Vigraham". (A beautiful/excellent sharira, if you will). Sattva Guna's primary characterisic is "knowledge" (Yathavasthita Jnana). In that Sharira is acquires God-like qualities and attains equanimity with the Brahman in "ananada" or Happniess. That is the reason why the shastras say that the Jeevatma acquires "Samyapatti" with the Brahman. At no time, does it ever merge with or becomes the Brahman.
- Contd.

[Sudarshang]

- contd from earlier post
In addition, the Jeevatma acquires the qualities of Satyasankalpatvam and Satyakamatvam. It is now able to go to any loka of its choice, meet anyone of its choice, take any shape it wants. It acquires its own "shanka" and "chakra" and takes on the four handed form that we see Maha-vishnu in.

There is a reception now organized for the Jeevatma after it has acquired this Sharira. The Jeevatma is taken to its quarters, and decorated by beautiful apsaras. The Jeevatma even gets a wife. Elders who are known to the Jeevatma that have attained Moksha welcomes it. All of them together take the Jeevatma to meet the Lord Sriman Narayana, the Formful Brahman. There the Jeevtma goes reciting Annasooktam (basically ahamannan ahamannam ahamannado ...etc.) The Lord embraces the Jeevatma and asks it "what took you so long to reach me". The Jeevatma is like a child in front of the Lord. The plays with it a while. Sri Mahalakshmi the Lord's consort is also the leader of the Jeevatmas. She assigns the service duties to the Jeevatma. Thus the Jeevatma becomes a Legal Permanent Resident/Citizen of the Sri Vaikuntha. No passport, No visas, and No Border Protection Officials asking stupid questions.

Note: There is another state called Kaivalya - attained by those that are consumed by "self-realization". They also attain Moksha. However, since they are enjoyers of the "Atma-Swaroopam" they remain enjoying their own self outside the Viraja river. They do not acquire the divya-mangala-vigraham or the excellent body.

[Sudarshang]

a) What does a person do after getting Moksha? Will he still possess a mind at that stage to think?

b) If Moksha is the state of attaining perfection at par with a chosen imaginary God or a Soul becoming identical to a perfect/ideal one, this final stage can be called ‘Aham Brahmasmi’.
But then a debate comes who is that ideal Soul, which has to be unique as there can not be many ideal ones, one for you and one for me one more for others….

c) If that is so, what is the need to go through all these paths, one can start feeling/dreaming ‘Aham Brahmasmi’ right now till that day when dream becomes reality… It is just like a goal, first dream then make it reality. In principle, that should be a better way than just surrendering to some initially imagined God/Guru, as one never know if that Guru or God you assumed is ideal or not?

--------------------
Free-will and surrender to God.. A scene from MBH….

Sri Krishna approached Karna to convince him to come to the side of Pandavas.
Karna rejected that by using free-will and thought that it is adharma to leave a trusted friend for the sake of success. No wonder He went to havens after the battle.

Suppose He had kept free-will aside, surrendered to Sri Krishna and joined the Pandavas, he would have got material success, but would have gone to hell for ditching a trusted friend and doing adharma at personal level.

So, in this case, using free-will and doing what is supposed to be right as per your inner-conscience was proved to be correct than mere surrendering to a boss (or God) and do what He says.

Comments are welcome.

Mahesh

Mahesh-ji

in my honest opinion, aham brahmasmi is the most mis-interpreted statement along with "Tat Tvam Asi". You need to go deeper in the vedas to understand the context in which these statements have been made and arrive at an overall understanding taking into account the Bheda, Abedha and the Gataka Shrutis.

AS for your MBH story, consider this: Dasaratha sent Rama to Forest to honor the word he gave his second wife. He thought he was doing Dharma - but he did not attain Moksha!

Neither did the Pandavas attain Moksha - because even Arjuna after hearing 700 shlokas of Srimad Bhagavad Gita, fought the Pandavas, ruled the Kingdom, enjoyed material wealth etc - but in the end did not "surrender to Krishna".

Dharma needs to be restated: What pleases the Lord is Dharma. What does not please the Lord is Adharma.

[Basab]

Aseem,

I never said Karma yoga and Bhakti yoga are same. I said, the former is a stepping stone to the latter, that is, a person who has been a karma yogi, will one day become a bhakta. In the path of karma, you do selfless service for God, so this is where you grow your love for God, slowly. You focus on the work, but you surrender the fruit to God, so slowly the love in you grows for Him. And once the love grows for him, you leave all work and sing His glories and chant His name all day. This is a step-by-step process. Karma yoga is the first step, and Bhakti yoga is the second step of the staircase, which takes you to salvation.

While I was reading the 'Bhagavad Gita', I understood that Karma yoga was nothing but a stepping stone towards Bhakti yoga because in the former one is surrendering his fruits to God out of love.

Basabji,

Karma yoga is different from bhakti yoga. You can't relate to each other...One of the way to attain salvation is karma yoga which means doing only selfless service to others and the man does not think of singing and preachings at all and leaves the fruits to God...

Bhakti yoga is all about singing bhajans Like Meera did to Lord Krishna..His mind is only focussed on chanting mantras or sanskrit songs to God...

So you see they are quite different to each other..

[Basab]

Well, it doesn't happen in one life, man. It takes many lives for ascending from a lower stage to a higher stage.

[Narayan]

Respected Members and Friends:

Those interested may please kindly take a look at the following link below of Swami Sivananda's views on Brahmacharya, Celibacy, Spirituality and so on.

http://www.dlshq.org/download/brahmacha ... c441556991

Regards

Narayanan

[Basab]

Well, they are real, I think.

[sita]

spirits do exist

[sita]

[Basab]

Aseem,

Spirits are there. My dad has seen my mom's father after he had died. And then, in our house someone used to knock at their door at night, and when the door used to be opened, there would be no one. The room was on the 2nd floor, and there was no chance of anyone coming and knocking. There were no kids also who would make fun. There used to be 3-4 knocks every night at the same time. It was just some years after their marriage. When my mom would open the door, there would be no one. Then my dad and mom decided to keep the door open at night one day, at the time when there would be the knock. They kept the door and the windows open and kept all lights on, and believe me, there was no knock on the door ever after that day. There are many more stories like, this which has happened, and I know about.

[Basab]

They were loud knocks, Aseem. Actually, I used the wrong word: they were not knocks: someone used to bang the door 4-5 times every night at the same time.

[Basab]

No man, the banging was on the door of the room, where my parents stayed. And then, why would the banging stop after the door was kept open at that time one night? There was no banging on the door, ever, after that. Our house is 200 years old, man. I won't be surprised if there are ghosts in our house.

[Basab]

Don't be scared. Ghosts don't come too meet us, always. Think of God, and your fear will vanish.

[Basab]

Don't think of ghosts, God is always there, to protect us from them. Chant the name of lord Rama a few times, and ghosts will run away as fast as possible.

[Basab]

Yeah, remembering God always helps.

[Basab]

Hahahahahaha... Thanks for sharing this story. Really nice.

Well you won't believe this. My brother played a very cruel prank on me one night. We just had watched a horror movie and we were discussing the scenes on bed while sleeping. My parents had gone out for night walk. Suddenly we heard a the banging on the main door and we went. I came out of the house and asked my parents whether they banged. on hearing no, I went inside the house. As I entered the main door, all of a sudden, one arm touched my shoulder from behind. OMG, I really shouted at the top of my voice and my pyjama slipped down in fear and everybody panicked asking what happened. hahahahahahahahahahaha. I now laugh whenever I recall this incident.

[sita]

hahahaha

[Narayan]

Dear Aseem:

What Basab is telling is very much true regarding spirits. Spirits is nothing but Atma, most probably a soul which has not got moksha. I mean it is a person. We are not able to see it with our naked eyes just because it no more has a body. You, me, and everybody in the world is that soul. We are able to see each other just because we have a body now. But, once we come out of the body, the person who is in a body cannot see us. It cannot be destroyed by any means because it is a soul. Soul will be there at all times irrespective of place or time. Once it gets released from earthly plane, it wont be there in earth and that is the only solution for the same.

The problem with us is that we often associate ourselves to a name or the body we are in, but in reality, we are not body or a particular name. We actually belong to that cosmic energy in which we are a particle called Atma of the big picture of Paramatma or Parabrahmam. Why we are identifying us with the body is that, that Atma cannot be seen with our naked eyes with which we are seeing with the outer world right now, which is also inside us, which is portrayed outwardly through our eyes by the mind or called as maya or magic.

Dear Aseem, you wont believe, I am the perfect example of a person who is living with the ghosts or spirits for the last 20 plus years. I have along with me day in and day out, 10 plus spirits in and around me plus shiva booth ganas, booth ganas of divine mother along with lord shiva and divine mother. But, I absolutely have no issues. I see them day in and day out both in morning and at night. But, once I have started rudrabishek to lord shiva, its dancing has stopped in night. I absoultely have no fear whatsoever at all. I remain along with it with Lord shiva father and divine mother. I also hear all kinds of things, walking, somebody knocking the door etc..etc.., but I used to ask hello, who are you? But no response will be there. I am so much used to it, that even if I am in a crematorium, I will have extremely good sleep at night without any kind of fear whatsoever.

Regards


Narayanan

[anuradha]

What Basab is very much true regarding spirits. Spirits is nothing but Atma, most probably a soul which has not got moksha. I mean it is a person. We are not able to see it with our naked eyes just because it no more has a body. You, me, and everybody in the world is that soul. We are able to see each other just because we have a body now. But, once we come out of the body, the person who is in a body cannot see us. It cannot be destroyed by any means because it is a soul. Soul will be there at all times irrespective of place or time. Once it gets released from earthly plane, it wont be there in earth and that is the only solution for the same.

Dear Aseem, you wont believe, I am the perfect example of a person who is living with the ghosts or spirits for the last 20 plus years. I have along with me day in and day out, 10 plus spirits in and around me plus shiva booth ganas, booth ganas of divine mother along with lord shiva and divine mother. But, I absolutely have no issues. I see them day in and day out both in morning and at night. But, once I have started rudrabishek to lord shiva, its dancing has stopped in night. I absoultely have no fear whatsoever at all. I remain along with it with Lord shiva father and divine mother. I also hear all kinds of things, walking, somebody knocking the door etc..etc.., but I used to ask hello, who are you? But no response will be there. I am so much used to it, that even if I am in a crematorium, I will have extremely good sleep at night without any kind of fear whatsoever.

Regards


Narayanan
Narayan
Registered Member


Posts: 714
Joined: 090809

Thanks a lot. Please suggest other remedies also. Regards

[Narayan]

Anuradhaji:

What remedies are u looking at? The only permanent solution for spirits or ghosts to get removed once and forever is Moksha only or u can say release from earthly plane. How to do it, I have no idea as of now. But if time permits, I will write here at some point of time later.

Regards

Narayanan

[anuradha]

Thanks a lot for your reply. Many a time, I come across this question that some ghost is troubling . The only solution I give is to do Hanuman Chalisa daily . I wish to know that any other thing can be suggested? Most of the time when people change house ,they give this complain. Since you have touched this topic, I wish to know more on this subject. Regards

[Narayan]

Anuradhaji:

"Many a time, I come across this question that some ghost is troubling . The only solution I give is to do Hanuman Chalisa daily . I wish to know that any other thing can be suggested? Most of the time when people change house ,they give this complain"

It is generally said that chanting Hanuman Chalisa is good for protection and troubles from ghosts and that I why one is asked to chant Hanuman Chalisa for the same. But then, the experience one gets from it differs from person to person. It is not necessary that everybody gets same cure from the medicine one takes. Some persons, might require some other kind of treatment as and when it demands. Sonuji has an extreme good experience when it comes to Hanuman Chalisa.

As you know, Hanuman is the only devata who is bestowed with extreme powers even by the Navagrahas. There is nothing that Hanuman cannot do. So, it all depends on you.

Let's just chant Hanuman Chalisa for one Mandala for 41 or 42 days and then see, how much good relief u get from it. When it comes to spirit trouble, aradhana of Lord Shiva is also extremely helpful, but again it differs from person to person to the experience one gets.

Anuradhaji, i am of the strong view that we need to see exactly what kind of spirit it is or what kind of ghost it is troubling one. If that spirit or ghost is very much associated to you, then I do not think devata aradhana can help other than protection to some extent. Some problems can be treated, some problems cannot.

Anuradhaji, I am against the astrologers who without studying the problem clearly suggest some remedies and takes one's hard earned money, giving temporary or no relief to the issue only wasting money. So, the problem needs to be studied clearly and deep down the earth first.

As far as I am concerned, I have no troubles from ghost as of now as it is helping me in my way path to Kailasa or Urdhava Mukha.

Regards


Narayanan

[anuradha]

Kailasa or Urdhava Mukha.

Regards


Narayanan
Narayan
Registered Member


Posts: 716
Joined: 090809

Thanks again. I have seen the only problem with H.C is, you have to follow Saatwic life style and you become very - very straight forward in your life.Please explain the above words. Regards

[anuradha]

Anuradhaji, i am of the strong view that we need to see exactly what kind of spirit it is or what kind of ghost it is troubling one.

How to do it. Kind of Ghost? Please explain. regards

[Narayan]

Anuradhaji:

"I have seen the only problem with H.C is, you have to follow Saatwic life style and you become very - very straight forward in your life"

What do u mean by H.C.? Yes, of course leading a Saatwic life and being straight forward and honest is very much essential at all times because otherwise, we have to reap our own actions or whatever one does say or act upon. It will definitely get back at some point of time. So, definitely leading a Saatwic way of life is essential. Even Lord shiva and mother have told clearly me, dont worry at all if others cheat you, let them do it, but u be straight enough in all aspects, that is enough for us. We will take care the rest.

In the previous body I was in, i had a horoscope of sagi lagna with Rahu in 2nd house and 2nd lord saturn along with Gulika in 12th. Though I belonged to Jupiterian person in previous body, due to Rahu being in 2nd house, I was of immoral character for a particular period especially when that of saturn MD in previous body. I cheated and mocked some, did not look after father properly in previous birth, did told many many lies etc and due to same, I have to pay back very dearly in this life time for the last 20 plus years. I am straight opposite to that what I was in previous birth just because of placements of planets in horo is completely different now.

"How to do it. Kind of Ghost?"

Looking at the person's horoscope with correct birth time and correct birth place is one option. Secondly, sometimes if a person has a spirit has with him/her, there is always a chance that person might get to know at some point what spirit it is with him/her.

When I said, kind of ghost, means we need to look at if it is related to our ancestors or might be even related to one from previous body one is in, then devata aradhana wont help much.

If the spirit or ghost is something which belongs to somebody else, then pariharas or remedies may work including Hanuman Chalisa.

Regards

Narayanan