Namaste,
I wonder if this perplexing thought that has occurred to me many times has occurred to any of you, but I am going to let you know of some puzzling cases for which I have not been able to reach at a satisfying conclusion up to now, in the hope that someone could possibly enlighten:
1- First of all, let's consider Ganesha as the widely worshiped God who removes obstacles and is also called the Lord of Karma. That said, you would expect that worshiping Him alone could counteract all possible afflictions in your life but...in a Puranic story it is said that Ganesha's head was burned as soon as Saturn's gaze fell on him! an incident that implies Shani's immense power. In addition, Ganesh is worshiped in Jyotish mostly in relation to Ketu, not other grahas. So one would naturally ask themselves, isn't it paradoxical that out of the context of astrology, Ganesha is the Lord of Karma, but within the context of astrology his role seems to be somehow limited?
2- This same puzzle regarding Ma Durga: She is the Victorious One in any battle with no exception. Yet, in astrology She is worshiped solely in relation to Rahu! To me, the fact that she holds so many weapons in Her hands implies that She can definitely counteract any affliction. How come, then, Her role in Jyotish again becomes limited to controlling Rahu alone?
3 Lastly, chanting Rama mantra according to the article in this website is said to be a general purpose mantra regarding afflictions. The question is, how is it that Rahu and Ketu could darken the Sun and Moon due to their enormous power but the mantra of Rama, which is composed of Sun/Moon names and energies could be a general solution?
Insights highly appreciated,
Dhanvanta
Afflictions and deities; confusing cases
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What a coincidence !
I had the same question - http://www.lightonvedicastrology.com/ph ... =11&t=9971
I had the same question - http://www.lightonvedicastrology.com/ph ... =11&t=9971
I am a student of this subject , and hence I might be wrong in my calculations. Kindly seek other opinions too , before coming to a conclusion.
Interesting ... yet in your case also no answer. The reduction in the role of Deities in Jyotish is very puzzling and I know that it is a very tough mysterious question.spidey wrote:What a coincidence !
I had the same question - http://www.lightonvedicastrology.com/ph ... =11&t=9971
Dear Dhanavantha,
Namaste. I give my response below.
1. Worshipping Him alone could counteract all possible afflictions... but His full potential is manifest only when guided by a qualified GURU. Or by someone who is Guru-Tulya, like father or mother. If Ganesha Worship is followed as a family practice for generations, it would give great results indeed. In the context of astrology his role is not limited to Ketu. As, to my knowledge (I am a learner) He is considered for Mercury (Ganesha worship on wednesdays), Jupiter (as the giver of Wisdom, prosperity, expansion) also. He is also the giver of astrological knowledge. He is the moksha karaka.
2. Ma Durga is of course the Supreme power who gives the fastest and most effective relief. There's a well known verse "Aapadi kim karaneeyam...Smaraneeyam Charanayugalam Ambaayaah" In times of danger and distress it's always advised to only meditate on the divine feet of the Mother, for immediate relief. And in astrology too She is worshipped for Chandra and Shukra (in addition to Rahu). Again this is based on my present knowledge as a learner of astrology. But again, to worship the divine mother there are several methods outlined in the scriptures for which the full potential would be manifested only under the guidance of the guru.
3. The darkening of Sun/Moon by Rahu and Ketu is momentary. Just as Bhagavan Sri Krishna Says "matrasparshasthu kauntheya sheethoshna sukhadukhadaah. Agamapayino anithyaah thaam thithikshasva bhaarathaa" - they are unable to overcome for long, the True light as signified by Rama Mantra which gives great wisdom and burns our sins, as in the case of Maharishi Valmiki.
Regards
Hari
Namaste. I give my response below.
1. Worshipping Him alone could counteract all possible afflictions... but His full potential is manifest only when guided by a qualified GURU. Or by someone who is Guru-Tulya, like father or mother. If Ganesha Worship is followed as a family practice for generations, it would give great results indeed. In the context of astrology his role is not limited to Ketu. As, to my knowledge (I am a learner) He is considered for Mercury (Ganesha worship on wednesdays), Jupiter (as the giver of Wisdom, prosperity, expansion) also. He is also the giver of astrological knowledge. He is the moksha karaka.
2. Ma Durga is of course the Supreme power who gives the fastest and most effective relief. There's a well known verse "Aapadi kim karaneeyam...Smaraneeyam Charanayugalam Ambaayaah" In times of danger and distress it's always advised to only meditate on the divine feet of the Mother, for immediate relief. And in astrology too She is worshipped for Chandra and Shukra (in addition to Rahu). Again this is based on my present knowledge as a learner of astrology. But again, to worship the divine mother there are several methods outlined in the scriptures for which the full potential would be manifested only under the guidance of the guru.
3. The darkening of Sun/Moon by Rahu and Ketu is momentary. Just as Bhagavan Sri Krishna Says "matrasparshasthu kauntheya sheethoshna sukhadukhadaah. Agamapayino anithyaah thaam thithikshasva bhaarathaa" - they are unable to overcome for long, the True light as signified by Rama Mantra which gives great wisdom and burns our sins, as in the case of Maharishi Valmiki.
Regards
Hari
To add to (1). At least 2 elderly astrologers I have spoken to, in South India, recommend GANESH worship for Mercury AS WELL AS Jupiter afflictions.
To add to (2). Family traditions in prayer, if known, matter a lot in deciding remedies. For example, according to Valmiki Ramayana, its the prayer Aditya Hridaya stotra, and not any Durga related prayer, that helped RAMA gain victory over Ravana. Rama born on IKSHVAKU clan also called SURYA VAMSA benefitted from his family's practice of praying to the Sun for generations.
To add to (2). Family traditions in prayer, if known, matter a lot in deciding remedies. For example, according to Valmiki Ramayana, its the prayer Aditya Hridaya stotra, and not any Durga related prayer, that helped RAMA gain victory over Ravana. Rama born on IKSHVAKU clan also called SURYA VAMSA benefitted from his family's practice of praying to the Sun for generations.
Thanks harih,
I would like to share these thoughts:
1- Somewhere I read that in deities iconography, all deities bow to some other deity but Ma Durga is an exception: She has "never" bowed to any deity.
2- One may not have access to physical presence of a Guru and if they are not from India or far East, they most probably come from a Jewish, Moslem, or Christian background. But one factor that invariably applies to everyone everywhere is "sincerity".
3- Could you give textual references also? especially regarding Ganesha and Mercury, as Mercury is mostly associated with Vishnu.
Thank you again,
Dhanvanta
I would like to share these thoughts:
1- Somewhere I read that in deities iconography, all deities bow to some other deity but Ma Durga is an exception: She has "never" bowed to any deity.
2- One may not have access to physical presence of a Guru and if they are not from India or far East, they most probably come from a Jewish, Moslem, or Christian background. But one factor that invariably applies to everyone everywhere is "sincerity".
3- Could you give textual references also? especially regarding Ganesha and Mercury, as Mercury is mostly associated with Vishnu.
Thank you again,
Dhanvanta
Hi Dhanvanta,
That's very correct. The genesis of Mother worship is the Durga Saptashati variously dated between the 3rd Cent BCE and 3rd Cent AD. In it you'll find that when Durga manifested she acquired divine powers from all other deities. So she herself is the embodiment of all divine powers.
I am not clear on what specific aspects in my message you were asking for textual references. So please elaborate. As for Mercury, BPHS associates it with Vishnu. But in some other works Mercury is associated with Mother Durga. Regarding Ganesha-Mercury association I learnt it from 2 well known astrologers who follow the traditions carried forward by generations. I've heard them refer to such works as Devakeralam, Jatakadarsham. If I come across any textual references, I'll post here.
That's very correct. The genesis of Mother worship is the Durga Saptashati variously dated between the 3rd Cent BCE and 3rd Cent AD. In it you'll find that when Durga manifested she acquired divine powers from all other deities. So she herself is the embodiment of all divine powers.
I am not clear on what specific aspects in my message you were asking for textual references. So please elaborate. As for Mercury, BPHS associates it with Vishnu. But in some other works Mercury is associated with Mother Durga. Regarding Ganesha-Mercury association I learnt it from 2 well known astrologers who follow the traditions carried forward by generations. I've heard them refer to such works as Devakeralam, Jatakadarsham. If I come across any textual references, I'll post here.
Dhanvanta wrote:Thanks harih,
I would like to share these thoughts:
1- Somewhere I read that in deities iconography, all deities bow to some other deity but Ma Durga is an exception: She has "never" bowed to any deity.
2- One may not have access to physical presence of a Guru and if they are not from India or far East, they most probably come from a Jewish, Moslem, or Christian background. But one factor that invariably applies to everyone everywhere is "sincerity".
3- Could you give textual references also? especially regarding Ganesha and Mercury, as Mercury is mostly associated with Vishnu.
Thank you again,
Dhanvanta
Last edited by harih on 12 May 2011, edited 1 time in total.
Hi Dhanavanta,
I guess the detailed writeup by Anupamji might have answered your queries. So I just wanted to mention one interesting aspect insofar as the GURU is concerned. Just as some places are considered to have the 'divine presence' of certain deities (hence temples specific to those deities were built to enable worshippers to obtain divine grace through those deities), our consciousness is permeated by the divine presence of certain deities, probably due to the fact that we might have worshipped them in past lives. The Guru can perceive this truth which enables the Guru to prescribe the deity most conducive for our overall benefit. A good rule could be - If one is not lucky enough to have such a Guru, one can try worshipping the deities as prescribed in the texts. As Bhagavan Sri Krishna says 'in whichever form a devotee worships ME, I stabilize his faith in that selfsame form, and through that form give him the benefits that he seeks". But where the Guru exists, it's better to follow the Guru. Hope this clarifies any confusion arising out of my earlier message.
Best wishes,
Hari
I guess the detailed writeup by Anupamji might have answered your queries. So I just wanted to mention one interesting aspect insofar as the GURU is concerned. Just as some places are considered to have the 'divine presence' of certain deities (hence temples specific to those deities were built to enable worshippers to obtain divine grace through those deities), our consciousness is permeated by the divine presence of certain deities, probably due to the fact that we might have worshipped them in past lives. The Guru can perceive this truth which enables the Guru to prescribe the deity most conducive for our overall benefit. A good rule could be - If one is not lucky enough to have such a Guru, one can try worshipping the deities as prescribed in the texts. As Bhagavan Sri Krishna says 'in whichever form a devotee worships ME, I stabilize his faith in that selfsame form, and through that form give him the benefits that he seeks". But where the Guru exists, it's better to follow the Guru. Hope this clarifies any confusion arising out of my earlier message.
Best wishes,
Hari
Dear anupam,
Thank you so much and glad to hear from you again.
I can quite understand what you mention. I personally do not doubt the existence of these deities as different manifestations of the Supreme Brahman and the fact that they can interfere with our karma. But what creates confusion is rather different depictions of them in different texts. It is similar to the case of Siva and Krishna and which one is the greatest as per the two related Puranas. Here again viewpoints differ: Swami Prabhupad said that people in the mode of Rajas worship are attracted to Siva while those in the mode of Sattva worship Krishna. Swami Sivananda (Divine Life Society) said that the two depictions show the fact that Siva and Krishna are one and the same.
Warm regards,
Dhanvanta
Thank you so much and glad to hear from you again.
I can quite understand what you mention. I personally do not doubt the existence of these deities as different manifestations of the Supreme Brahman and the fact that they can interfere with our karma. But what creates confusion is rather different depictions of them in different texts. It is similar to the case of Siva and Krishna and which one is the greatest as per the two related Puranas. Here again viewpoints differ: Swami Prabhupad said that people in the mode of Rajas worship are attracted to Siva while those in the mode of Sattva worship Krishna. Swami Sivananda (Divine Life Society) said that the two depictions show the fact that Siva and Krishna are one and the same.
Warm regards,
Dhanvanta
Advaita is part of Tantra literature? !!! interesting. all along i been taught that advaita, dwaita and vishishtadvaita were part of Vedanta also known as Upanishads.anupam1968 wrote: Now I come to Advaita. Advaita is part of Tantra Literature and is considered to be the oldest. Adwaita showed its malefic impact in the name of various Rakshasas or demons since it says there is no difference between soul and spirit. Every path is dangerous if you just stray a bit. That is why we hear the Indian mythological stories where some Demon is proclaiming that he is living god and in return torturing others if they don't worship him. Everybody has heard about the story of Hiranayakashyapa and Prahalad or even Ravana who is said to make planets laid on the stairs that he used to go towards his Simhasana or throne.
Could you elaborate on the connection between advaita and demons/rakshaas. what you have quoted is from mythologies. where is the connection.
There is a lot of difference between a claim and truth. Kings of yore claimed that their power to govern was God given. there is a lot of difference between what a mythological demon claims and the actual position of Advaitins.
exactly.anupam1968 wrote: Well, in this scenario I just remember Ramakrishna Paramhansa words who said " Let philosophers fight like cats and dogs but you better go and practice because the experience of apple only comes when you taste it".
Nothing is free except God's Grace.
anupamji
you know very well that antiquiety was considered sacred and renders a halo of authenticity. hence many ancient works claim so. something similar to every purana claiming that its deity is the uppermost.
you know very well that antiquiety was considered sacred and renders a halo of authenticity. hence many ancient works claim so. something similar to every purana claiming that its deity is the uppermost.
anupam1968 wrote: I may try to elaborate it but don't take in a wrong way. Every path can be a little bit dangerous if right guidance is not there. YES. EVEN BHAKTHI YOGA. REMEMBER RAMAKRISHNA PARAMAHAMSA AND TOTAPURI? For example mantras like Aham Brahamsami or Shivoham can also lead one astray that is why the blessings of guru should there. ARE YOU SURE THESE ARE MANTRAS? I DONT THINK SO. NOW, FIRE CAN BE USED FOR COOKING OR FOR ARSON. IS FIRE RESPONSIBLE FOR THE EVIL EFFECTS OF ARSON. IF ONE DOES NOT UNDERSTAND A TENET FULLY AND DOES JAPA OF IT LIKE A MANTRA IS IT THE RESPONSIBLITY OF THAT SCHOOL OF PHILOSOPHY?
Nothing is free except God's Grace.
anupamji
forgive me if i gave the impression that i hold some grudge against you(or anybody else). i must have misunderstood your first post about malefic impact of adwaita in the form of rakshas/demons and the havoc it has created leading to dwaita coming into existence.
now you have amply clarified your position.
again, please accept my apologies.
forgive me if i gave the impression that i hold some grudge against you(or anybody else). i must have misunderstood your first post about malefic impact of adwaita in the form of rakshas/demons and the havoc it has created leading to dwaita coming into existence.
now you have amply clarified your position.
again, please accept my apologies.
Nothing is free except God's Grace.
anupamji
advaita is like communism. you can love it or hate it. but you cant ignore it.
there is a lot of misconceptions associated with it. one that takes the cake is that advaita is theoretical mumbo jumbo with no connection to experiential dimensions. on the contratry advaita philosophy starts off with analysis of sleep-something everyone experiences-some thing close to my heart. . maybe that is the reason this philosophy attracts me.
am glad that you hav let thing go by.
advaita is like communism. you can love it or hate it. but you cant ignore it.
there is a lot of misconceptions associated with it. one that takes the cake is that advaita is theoretical mumbo jumbo with no connection to experiential dimensions. on the contratry advaita philosophy starts off with analysis of sleep-something everyone experiences-some thing close to my heart.
. maybe that is the reason this philosophy attracts me. am glad that you hav let thing go by.
Nothing is free except God's Grace.
Dear Mahesh and friends,
The topic is interesting no doubt but the main issue still remains unattended. To clarify, sage Parashara could say: study your natal chart and when you find out where your problem lies, pray to your Ishta devata! But did he say that? of course faith alone could work wonders but solving problem alone was not what I had in mind. As the eye of the Vedas, Jyotish is no childish game. So I would say there must be a definite logic in ascribing different deities to different grahas and vice versa. That our discussions led to the concept of God was natural, as we are discussing deities, but it fails to address the main point anyway.
As of the points you made:
Warm regards,
Dhanvanta
The topic is interesting no doubt but the main issue still remains unattended. To clarify, sage Parashara could say: study your natal chart and when you find out where your problem lies, pray to your Ishta devata! But did he say that? of course faith alone could work wonders but solving problem alone was not what I had in mind. As the eye of the Vedas, Jyotish is no childish game. So I would say there must be a definite logic in ascribing different deities to different grahas and vice versa. That our discussions led to the concept of God was natural, as we are discussing deities, but it fails to address the main point anyway.
As of the points you made:
Mohammad did not say he was God. He said he was His messenger whom he called Allah. I also doubt that Moslems and Christians are always healthy and happy . They also have their own problems, yet they believe in angels and they have different prayers that sometimes work. There are also occultist Moslems and Christians and I believe that most of what they do is based on Shamanic trance which has somehow creeped into their occult systems.If God is only Siva Or Durga, what about Christ and Mohammad? these followers do not even know who are Siva Or Rama. But they are healthy and happy without any remedies to planets and deities.
Similar to sacred iconography, mythology is the key to deep layers of the psyche. Thus, it could confuse if interpreted quite literally. The hidden meaning of myths cannot be grasped by relying upon the intellect alone.If one believes that all avatars were real and not just heroes in novels written by someone to keep people under law and order, why there is no such avatar since long time? What for that so called ultimate God waiting for taking one more avatar?
Warm regards,
Dhanvanta
Dear anupam
Best,
Dhanvanta
I don't feel comfortable with suggesting such simplistic dichotomies and saying that either one is a common man- so he must be considered almost a fool without the slightest power of discrimination- or he is a great saint like Ramakrishna. What about so many levels of intellectual/spiritual development in between? moreover, I would say there is more to it than that. Let me give an example: We know perfectly well that In a company, it is the managing director who decides the general operations of a company and all basic decisions are made by him and by gaining his approval. But when you want to make a complaint about a product, would you insist that only the managing director should listen to your story? do we expect that the managing director himself should deal with each and every trivial matter? I believe such is the case in remedial measures. No matter how firmly you believe in God, if you are hungry you would have to go to the baker's shop instead of saying a prayer for a loaf to be put in your hand! Of course it is ultimately God who arranges all this and these are His own rules. I can not ask God to directly cure my decayed tooth, fill my hungry stomach, etc. etc. So I believe this is the reason why grahas or different deities are worshiped. Yes, there are self-realized souls who won't need any of this, but let's not forget that they have transcended karma and basically they are not seeking solutions to improve their mundane situation. Hence, they can not be the subject of our discussion as Jyotish is the science of time and karma. Meanwhile, even people who are spiritually advanced but not necessarily self-realized still would need remedies.Rishi Parashara would not say that because Astrology is chiefly meant for common man who is not at that evolutionary state of mind. So, it is better to prescribe him proper mantras of deities relate with particular planet or periods. That will be much easy and comfortable for him instead of saying have unshakable faith in his Ishta. For reaching that state one has to be Hanuman Bhakta like Rokadia Baba or even Kali devotee like Ramakrishna Paramhansa only then it can work unless not.
Quite the contrary, at least a minimum faith is required for absolutely any undertaking. If your client or anybody else has no faith why should they come to you and why should they take your advice in the first place? What propels them to do so is "faith". I can't imagine that anybody would chant even for one day without any faith, and I don't think anything in this world has ever been accomplished without some level of faith.And believe me in that even your faith is not required. Even if you do it mechanically you get the results. For example I suggested MMM to an Italian Lady and mantra of Mercury to Sikh Doctor in London. Both got miraculous results within 15 days. Especially the Italian lady who got the results in 3 days.
Only to Ramakrishna is Durga the most powerful? I would say many people who have read Devi Mahatmya also believe so even if they are not at that high level of devotion. Is it really needed to be at a very high level of spirituality to believe that a deity is the greatest? Also you said earlier that faith is not required and now you say one needs to be "at least on the path of true devotee"??And I would say Durga is most powerful for those persons who are like Ramakrishna or Hanuman is the most potent God for the saint like Rokadia Baba. Even if everybody cannot be that stage of faith but it will be enough if they are atleast on the path of true devotee.
Best,
Dhanvanta
Last edited by Dhanvanta on 20 Feb 2012, edited 4 times in total.
Dear anupam,
What you said was not difficult to understand; any person with an average IQ can get it and I clarified myself about it in my very previous post. My question has to to with a technical aspect of Jyotish which happens to be a very tricky one. Again I repeat: if only solving problems is the issue, you are right in saying that unshakable faith in any form of God would suffice. Even people who have faith in the power of the mind are able to work wonders ... why not?
Thank you for your time anyway,
Dhanvanta
What you said was not difficult to understand; any person with an average IQ can get it and I clarified myself about it in my very previous post. My question has to to with a technical aspect of Jyotish which happens to be a very tricky one. Again I repeat: if only solving problems is the issue, you are right in saying that unshakable faith in any form of God would suffice. Even people who have faith in the power of the mind are able to work wonders ... why not?
Thank you for your time anyway,
Dhanvanta
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Nitin21
Dear Dhanvanta,
Please allow me to share what i have learnt.
Part 1
------------
There is one creator who is GOD. i.e. Shri Vishnu. Rest all are souls with a hierarchy, which is called Taratamya in the language of shastras. Now it is the attribute of the soul to aquire a skin over it to realize the self via karmas. Everyone including Lord Shiva, Navagrahas, Indra and other devatas are souls. In every kalpa the souls change but the posts like Lord Shiva, Indra etc remain same. So, the soul which is Lord Shiva today may not be Shiva in the next kalpa, but based on his sadhana towards Shri Vishnu will be promoted to the next level in taratamya. One e.g. is Shri Hanumanji is Vayu Avatara, who is next to Shri LaxmiNArayana and equal to Brahmaji. In the next kalpa, Hanumanji will be our Brahma, who will be born from the navel of Shri Vishnu.
This implies that Shri Vishnu is beginingless and endless and does service to the souls by making them realize their true self via Moksha for Satvikas, Andha Tamas for Tamasik Souls and Mixed stay for Rajasik ones. Just like Shri Vishnu, A soul also does not have a beginning or the end. but the difference is that Soul is inert without accepting the services of the Lord to bring it into sujaya avastha. So, Lord gives them a linga deha and various forms to realize the self. Out of all these, human birth is the best as it allows the soul to evolve and worship as per the guidelines of the Lord himself as per Shastras, which other linga dehas are not able to do like animals and plants. They come lower in taratamya. We can go on and on about taratmya, but lets leave it for some other day and come back to your original questions.
Now when the soul evolves based on his Sadhana towards Shri Hari, it steps up the ladder in taratamya as i mentioned about example of Shri Hanumanji. But this ladder stops at Brahma. No one ever becomes Shri Vishnu.
The answer to your question about Ganeshji lies in this. Ganapati devata was born with a purpose and to defeat the evil forces with powerful boons. His role is as per taratamya only. Every soul has a pratibimba in the form of Vasudeva and it is specific to the soul and its evolution. As i mentioned the soul is inert. Cannot work by itself. So, Shri Hari does this service to the soul by giving it direcctions to finish this sadhana. When this sadhana reaches its zenith, one becomes aparoksha gyani. This means, the soul sees lord everywhere, every second in all its forms. He is ever connected to the almighty and knows what exactly the Lord is expecting of him to continue his sadhana. All the pandavas in mahabharata were previous Indras and aparoksha Gyanis.
When Ganapati is termed as powerful, the term is upto his taratamya only. For e.g. Lord Shiva is greater than Navagrahas. Shri Vayu is greater than all put together. Shri Vishnu is highest and does not fall into any taratamya.
So, any offering to Shri Ganesha or Maa Durga eventually reaches the pratibimba form of the soul as Shri Narayana rupa. Why >? Because the soul itself is inert and the very fact that it is a soul, means that the true worship is towards the creator only. i.e. Shri Vishnu.
Contd..
Please allow me to share what i have learnt.
Part 1
------------
There is one creator who is GOD. i.e. Shri Vishnu. Rest all are souls with a hierarchy, which is called Taratamya in the language of shastras. Now it is the attribute of the soul to aquire a skin over it to realize the self via karmas. Everyone including Lord Shiva, Navagrahas, Indra and other devatas are souls. In every kalpa the souls change but the posts like Lord Shiva, Indra etc remain same. So, the soul which is Lord Shiva today may not be Shiva in the next kalpa, but based on his sadhana towards Shri Vishnu will be promoted to the next level in taratamya. One e.g. is Shri Hanumanji is Vayu Avatara, who is next to Shri LaxmiNArayana and equal to Brahmaji. In the next kalpa, Hanumanji will be our Brahma, who will be born from the navel of Shri Vishnu.
This implies that Shri Vishnu is beginingless and endless and does service to the souls by making them realize their true self via Moksha for Satvikas, Andha Tamas for Tamasik Souls and Mixed stay for Rajasik ones. Just like Shri Vishnu, A soul also does not have a beginning or the end. but the difference is that Soul is inert without accepting the services of the Lord to bring it into sujaya avastha. So, Lord gives them a linga deha and various forms to realize the self. Out of all these, human birth is the best as it allows the soul to evolve and worship as per the guidelines of the Lord himself as per Shastras, which other linga dehas are not able to do like animals and plants. They come lower in taratamya. We can go on and on about taratmya, but lets leave it for some other day and come back to your original questions.
Now when the soul evolves based on his Sadhana towards Shri Hari, it steps up the ladder in taratamya as i mentioned about example of Shri Hanumanji. But this ladder stops at Brahma. No one ever becomes Shri Vishnu.
The answer to your question about Ganeshji lies in this. Ganapati devata was born with a purpose and to defeat the evil forces with powerful boons. His role is as per taratamya only. Every soul has a pratibimba in the form of Vasudeva and it is specific to the soul and its evolution. As i mentioned the soul is inert. Cannot work by itself. So, Shri Hari does this service to the soul by giving it direcctions to finish this sadhana. When this sadhana reaches its zenith, one becomes aparoksha gyani. This means, the soul sees lord everywhere, every second in all its forms. He is ever connected to the almighty and knows what exactly the Lord is expecting of him to continue his sadhana. All the pandavas in mahabharata were previous Indras and aparoksha Gyanis.
When Ganapati is termed as powerful, the term is upto his taratamya only. For e.g. Lord Shiva is greater than Navagrahas. Shri Vayu is greater than all put together. Shri Vishnu is highest and does not fall into any taratamya.
So, any offering to Shri Ganesha or Maa Durga eventually reaches the pratibimba form of the soul as Shri Narayana rupa. Why >? Because the soul itself is inert and the very fact that it is a soul, means that the true worship is towards the creator only. i.e. Shri Vishnu.
Contd..
Last edited by Nitin21 on 15 May 2011, edited 1 time in total.
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Nitin21
Part 2
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The word SUPREME must never be used for anyone other than Shri Vishnu. At the same time, the order of the taratamya must never be compromized. Without this knowledge, moksha cannot be achieved. This knowledge comes via shastras only, nowhere else. It is because Shastras are the mind of God. When we superimpose our Mind over the mind of God, we get delusions only. So, all the Rishis always acted as per Shastra dictums only. E.g. Shree Rama paying Sashtanga Pranaam to Ravana. Why >? Because he was a Brahmin too, apart from being a Daitya. Does Lord need to do this ? NO. But he was following Shastras, to emulate the role of Maryada Purushottama Rama to be followed by others. Was he doing for himself ? NO. He portrayed his acts for the upliftment of the soul, which is inert and need guidance all the time to tread to the right path.
In between somewhere you have answered your own questions beautifully, by giving examples of going to doctor for a tooth decay. This is an evolved mindset that comprehends the inner meanings of Shastras.
Bottomline, All the power in this world is owing to Vayu(Hanuman) Saniddhi in the soul. At times, the souls higher in taratamya occupy the body to give temporary victory to the Sadhaka in difficult times, which the sadhaka himself maynot be able to achieve. At all times when Ganesha proved to defeat all put together, he was possessed with Vayu amsha, as per the boons given to him to fructify his purpose of birth.
There is no difference between Shri Raama and Shri Krishna or other Shri Vishnu avataras. But there is a chief avatara for every yuga. For e.g. For Kaliyuga, Shri Krishna worship brings imminent results. Satyuga was for Shri Rama avatara. Similarly, every deity has been assigned a role as you rightly mentioned in your posts and must be worshipped accordingly. The deity should be always worshipped antargata Vayu antargata Shri Vishnu to get full results. this is as per Bhagvad Gita, where Shri Krishna says, whatever you offer to other deities reaches ultimately me. Who do not see me in other deities, often gain the lokas signfied by the deities as per their worship and go back to samsara. But one who worships me, gets freed from samsara and life and death.
This is a clear enough message of what EXISTS as per Shastras.
Regards
Sonu
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The word SUPREME must never be used for anyone other than Shri Vishnu. At the same time, the order of the taratamya must never be compromized. Without this knowledge, moksha cannot be achieved. This knowledge comes via shastras only, nowhere else. It is because Shastras are the mind of God. When we superimpose our Mind over the mind of God, we get delusions only. So, all the Rishis always acted as per Shastra dictums only. E.g. Shree Rama paying Sashtanga Pranaam to Ravana. Why >? Because he was a Brahmin too, apart from being a Daitya. Does Lord need to do this ? NO. But he was following Shastras, to emulate the role of Maryada Purushottama Rama to be followed by others. Was he doing for himself ? NO. He portrayed his acts for the upliftment of the soul, which is inert and need guidance all the time to tread to the right path.
In between somewhere you have answered your own questions beautifully, by giving examples of going to doctor for a tooth decay. This is an evolved mindset that comprehends the inner meanings of Shastras.
Bottomline, All the power in this world is owing to Vayu(Hanuman) Saniddhi in the soul. At times, the souls higher in taratamya occupy the body to give temporary victory to the Sadhaka in difficult times, which the sadhaka himself maynot be able to achieve. At all times when Ganesha proved to defeat all put together, he was possessed with Vayu amsha, as per the boons given to him to fructify his purpose of birth.
There is no difference between Shri Raama and Shri Krishna or other Shri Vishnu avataras. But there is a chief avatara for every yuga. For e.g. For Kaliyuga, Shri Krishna worship brings imminent results. Satyuga was for Shri Rama avatara. Similarly, every deity has been assigned a role as you rightly mentioned in your posts and must be worshipped accordingly. The deity should be always worshipped antargata Vayu antargata Shri Vishnu to get full results. this is as per Bhagvad Gita, where Shri Krishna says, whatever you offer to other deities reaches ultimately me. Who do not see me in other deities, often gain the lokas signfied by the deities as per their worship and go back to samsara. But one who worships me, gets freed from samsara and life and death.
This is a clear enough message of what EXISTS as per Shastras.
Regards
Sonu
Last edited by Nitin21 on 16 May 2011, edited 1 time in total.
Dear Sonuji,
A question for you - why Vayu amsha only ?
Spidey
A question for you - why Vayu amsha only ?
Thanks and regards,Bottomline, All the power in this world is owing to Vayu(Hanuman) Saniddhi in the soul. At times, the souls higher in taratamya occupy the body to give temporary victory to the Sadhaka in difficult times, which the sadhaka himself maynot be able to achieve. At all times when Ganesha proved to defeat all put together, he was possessed with Vayu amsha, as per the boons given to him to fructify his purpose of birth.
Spidey
I am a student of this subject , and hence I might be wrong in my calculations. Kindly seek other opinions too , before coming to a conclusion.
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Nitin21
Dear Spidey,spidey wrote:Dear Sonuji,
A question for you - why Vayu amsha only ?
Thanks and regards,Bottomline, All the power in this world is owing to Vayu(Hanuman) Saniddhi in the soul. At times, the souls higher in taratamya occupy the body to give temporary victory to the Sadhaka in difficult times, which the sadhaka himself maynot be able to achieve. At all times when Ganesha proved to defeat all put together, he was possessed with Vayu amsha, as per the boons given to him to fructify his purpose of birth.
Spidey
It is Vayu as Cheif Instrument of PRANA that does japa of Shri Vishnu every second on our behalf to help us live. Without the incessent ajapa by Mukhya Prana (Vayu), sustainence of life is not possible. Where there is Vayu there is Narayana, without Narayana, Vayu does not exist.
Regards
sonu
Dear Sonu,
Thank you very much. It was a delight reading your explanation. Meanwhile, let me come back to one Puranic story I referred to in my first post:
We all know that Ganesha is the remover of obstacles while Saturn is (generally) considered to be the creator of obstacles. When Parvati made Saturn bliss the baby Ganesha, Ganesha's head burned to ashes because of the immense power Saturn's gaze had. Now this is one of those specific cases of confusion: Now that Saturn is so strong, how come we invoke Ganesha even before chanting the mantras of Saturn?
It would be a pleasure to have your thoughts on this issue.
Best regards,
Dhanvanta
Thank you very much. It was a delight reading your explanation. Meanwhile, let me come back to one Puranic story I referred to in my first post:
We all know that Ganesha is the remover of obstacles while Saturn is (generally) considered to be the creator of obstacles. When Parvati made Saturn bliss the baby Ganesha, Ganesha's head burned to ashes because of the immense power Saturn's gaze had. Now this is one of those specific cases of confusion: Now that Saturn is so strong, how come we invoke Ganesha even before chanting the mantras of Saturn?
It would be a pleasure to have your thoughts on this issue.
Best regards,
Dhanvanta
My 2 cents on this....
To run a country,It needs a prime minister,President,attorney general........etc.It needs Police as well as Army commanders etc.....list is long.Each & every person has their own defined work & areas to do.Everybody has their own powers & weapons.Sometimes a pen which signs an agreement is quite powerful than a gun but it doesnt mean that the person who posses gun isnot much powerful than the person who has a pen!!Jst think the administration/management of whole world/universe????
DhanvantaJi,
A single story of shastras doesnt determine everything which concerns the real knowledge.Sometimes you need to keep your logic away while thinking such things.jst Keep faith....
ShreeKrishnarpan Astu..
Thanks & Regrds,
Jai shree Krishna,
Zarna
To run a country,It needs a prime minister,President,attorney general........etc.It needs Police as well as Army commanders etc.....list is long.Each & every person has their own defined work & areas to do.Everybody has their own powers & weapons.Sometimes a pen which signs an agreement is quite powerful than a gun but it doesnt mean that the person who posses gun isnot much powerful than the person who has a pen!!Jst think the administration/management of whole world/universe????
DhanvantaJi,
A single story of shastras doesnt determine everything which concerns the real knowledge.Sometimes you need to keep your logic away while thinking such things.jst Keep faith....
ShreeKrishnarpan Astu..
Thanks & Regrds,
Jai shree Krishna,
Zarna
Jai shree krishna
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Nitin21
Dear dhanvanta,
Shri Ganesha's head was blown away by trishula of Mahadev while Ganapatiji was guarding the entrance of Mata Parvati. It was not Saturn influence. Rudra devaru is above 9 planets. Without Rudra upasana Shri Vishnu krupa cannot be obtained. The pratibimba rupa of Shri Rudra devaru is Lord Narasimha who has three eyes. Hence Lord Shiva is also known as Trayambakeshwar.
Lord Ganesha was granted Gaja mukha on his own request in Vishwambhara roopa. Hence the events unfolded and He got gajamukha.
Him being remover of obstacles and guardian of all spiritual activities and to be worshipped first among all deities is also a boon from Shri Vishnu, Shri Mahalaxmi and Brahmaji ( all higher in taratamya) , to empower Gajanan after the head replacement episode.
My daughter has special love towards Ganeshaji. So much so that if I do not fulfill any of her wish to watch a ganesha movie, i get punished instantly.
On Ganesha Chaturthi last year Lord Ganesha blessed us by allowing to the mantap tobe right outside our bldg out of many. Such was his grace, i was allowed to do part of seva too although i was not in core committee. To get full blessings of Lord Ganesha, we must worship Ganapatiji in the Vishwambhara roopa with 19 heads, with nine human heads on each side and Gaja mukha as main head.
Shani devata is my Guru. I have no words of Praise for the deity. . The Lord has given me much needed discipline in spiritual matters. Although, like everyone else i have my own inner battles with shadripus to fight. Shani devata sparing all who worship Vayu antargata Narayana is another example of taratamya establishment.
Regards
Sonu
Shri Ganesha's head was blown away by trishula of Mahadev while Ganapatiji was guarding the entrance of Mata Parvati. It was not Saturn influence. Rudra devaru is above 9 planets. Without Rudra upasana Shri Vishnu krupa cannot be obtained. The pratibimba rupa of Shri Rudra devaru is Lord Narasimha who has three eyes. Hence Lord Shiva is also known as Trayambakeshwar.
Lord Ganesha was granted Gaja mukha on his own request in Vishwambhara roopa. Hence the events unfolded and He got gajamukha.
Him being remover of obstacles and guardian of all spiritual activities and to be worshipped first among all deities is also a boon from Shri Vishnu, Shri Mahalaxmi and Brahmaji ( all higher in taratamya) , to empower Gajanan after the head replacement episode.
My daughter has special love towards Ganeshaji. So much so that if I do not fulfill any of her wish to watch a ganesha movie, i get punished instantly
. On Ganesha Chaturthi last year Lord Ganesha blessed us by allowing to the mantap tobe right outside our bldg out of many. Such was his grace, i was allowed to do part of seva too although i was not in core committee. To get full blessings of Lord Ganesha, we must worship Ganapatiji in the Vishwambhara roopa with 19 heads, with nine human heads on each side and Gaja mukha as main head.
Shani devata is my Guru. I have no words of Praise for the deity.
. The Lord has given me much needed discipline in spiritual matters. Although, like everyone else i have my own inner battles with shadripus to fight. Shani devata sparing all who worship Vayu antargata Narayana is another example of taratamya establishment. Regards
Sonu
Dear Sonu,
There is another version of that story in which Ganesha's head burns because of Saturn's gaze. I can give reference if needed.
Just wanted to add that as an advocate of Advaita Vedanta, it is quite natural for me to use the word "Supreme" for Brahman. To me, the ultimate truth is Brahman (Tao).
I enjoy reading your comments and experiences.
Best regards,
Dhanvanta
There is another version of that story in which Ganesha's head burns because of Saturn's gaze. I can give reference if needed.
Just wanted to add that as an advocate of Advaita Vedanta, it is quite natural for me to use the word "Supreme" for Brahman. To me, the ultimate truth is Brahman (Tao).
I enjoy reading your comments and experiences.
Best regards,
Dhanvanta
