I want to break Free

[lovacrs]

Sonu ji,

Sir do you mean to say first it was man who was born and then he wrote scriptures under the influence of three Gunas ?? how will then these be acceptable to us. Since these will be biased anyway. NO Sir.. Vedas are root of this creation. They have no beginning no end. Human form is just a small manifestation of this spiritual bliss.

No sir. The mechanisms of deliverance spelt out in the scriptures may be as old as the universe or Sri Hari (the ageless). Fact remains that the current form of the scriptures that we have access to were created by humans. How am I to make sure that the humans who created them were indeed faithful to the original principles wherever the repository was. To make it simple, why should I believe sage Parashara anymore than Shankaracharya (that includes Madhavacharya too). Simply because he preceded Shankara?

The Rishis who used to meditate on non-idol forms of God was to meditate on Pranav.

Sorry, I did not understand this. I thought you said earlier that non-idol form of worship was non-vedic. Are you trying to say that these practices of Rishis was anti-vedic?

Example out of body does not align with what we are discussing. If you can give apples to apples and oranges to oranges example, i will be happy to understand.

I can only write what I heard and understood. What he meant was all beings (living/non-living) are a part of God. Each being has no existence of its own much like the hand of our body has no independent existence. The slicing and dicing is just a human (may be even animal) penchant.

[suniti]

Om Mahadbhyo Namah
Salutations to the great ones

I would like to apologize to everyone on this forum if i hurt anyones sentiments. I played with the sanskrit etymology of the word dvija here and i accept that i should not have done that. I did not say anything derogatory, i just used the suffix "ja" which means born and coined a word. Like the word neeraja means born from water, referring to the lotus.
I did not mean to disrespect anyone by that. Sometimes because i love something i play, i love sanskrit so i played with it.
It was not the right thing to do, so i request all to be large hearted, here i say "vihitam avihitam vaa sarvam etat ksamasva"

Sri Dakshinamurthi came down and gave his bhashya through silence,
Hastamalaka never said a word until Adi Shankara asked him he who he was
And what to talk of Maharshi Ramana?
im not comparing myself im just talking about silence. A full pot makes no noise
I am instead not even 1/8th filled pot making so much noise with very little knowledge
but i have learned from you all.

My humble pranaams to all
suniti


Words are spoken to be broken
Feelings are intense, words are trivial
Pleasures remain, so does their pain
Words are meaningless and forgettable
Depeche mode

[kandhan]

whats the effect of Chandra-Shani in 6th? what lagna is being referred to? can someone pls include tapaswi yoga in the discussion?

[Nitin21]

crsji - meditating on pranav is not anti vedic as it is neither nirakar nor nirguna. All auspicious qualities of brahman emerge from pranav only.

Rest all has been covered no point in writing again.

[Nitin21]

abhijit .... I am surprised to see 2 more additions in ur backyard.. How come some space was left after growing maya there

[Nitin21]

by chaks » Sun Jan 23, 2011 3:01 am

With all due respects to everybody, at the end of the day when you all are through with this discussion (if ever ), you would all stick to whatever views you have had before and not changed it a bit. Such is the nature of the beast (spirituality). It is a realisation and no amount of discussion and writing can change that.

TRUE TO THE CORE.

All the support to vedic teachings to have earnings of the day as a curse from a dwija brahmin .. and the disrespect to the sacred thread ignored by a brahmin who wears it everyday to support his brahminism. strange are life's ways .. Prarabdha ?

[Abhijit Muhurta !!!]

Maya means Illusion sonu.....it does'nt grow in anyones back yard.....it does grow in the minds of less knowledgeable yet head strong people....who'll parrot away anything that is told to them...as long it is annnnccciiieeenttt...........

[Nitin21]

u seem to have made even maya to grow abhijit !!! Mission Impossible ..? .... .. Trija did it for u ?

[P.Srinivas. Rao]

Lord Shankaracharya.

[astroboy]

Good day to you all,

I was seriously contemplating since last night if i should make a post here . The thread has moved from a serious debate to one of dripping sarcasm .

I have on clarification to make Astro Sonu Ji . When I used the words "mine is bigger than yours contest has begun " I said it to milred who is a staunch supporter of Christanity , while I am a staunch supporter of the Vedic ways . It was in no reference to you and Suniti ji in any way . I think you got me wrong . But if that offended you , Then I am sorry .

the post was addressed to Milred ,

Milred, Heaven and hell is on earth . Last night I was at a bar listening to Konark , Ranjit Barot and Asaf Rabi jam up for a impromptu Jazz session . 4 Black dogs , with great music and I was in Heaven . Hell was when I saw a poor vegetable vendors shop gutted by a fire and he was sitting on the road with tears in his eyes wondering how he is going to feed his children tomorrow . this shop was 1 km away from the Bar . life fluctuates so much within a small radius . Imagine what it is on a global scale . We experience heaven and hell every day on this very earth . Heaven is not in the sky , nor is hell under the earth .......Its all here . Unless we realise that there is a higher state , we will alternate between heaven and hell . . Save your soul , follow Shiva . He is the true lord ( the mine is bigger than yours contest has begun ).

As you will see, The mine is bigger than yours contest was between christianity and Shiva , and not between Dwita and Adwita . Milred always says her lord is the true lord , And I say Shiva is the Greatest . Its light hearted banter and both of us joke about it all the time . I know she will never leave the church , she knows she can never get me to go to one . .

as far as the chest beating and jingoism goes , see Abhijit Muhurtha's simplification of mans problems with God,

by astroboy » Sun Jan 23, 2011 11:43 am
Good day to you Abhijit Muhurtha ,
you wrote,
1] There is man...who is totally ignorant...and writhes in his Moha and Maya..
2] Then he realises he has problems ...and then there may be solutions to his problem....
3] He gets a guru...and start getting knowledge under his guidance...
4] He starts understanding the knowledge given by the guru “ that god exists in me”
5] When he gets rooted in the knowledge “god is in me” and suddenly looses himself.....
Then what remains ? only god...remains...and that god is nameless...formless....
So when shankara would call him bramhan....worship as narayana....and sing as shiva there is no contradiction !!!

wow , Brilliant . all the jingoism and the chest beating , and it actually boils down to this . Superb observation .

How many people have died in the name of supporting their religion astrosonu ji ? From the spanish Inquisition to the every day bombings of mosques and churches in the middle east . each one trying to prove that their god is the best and the biggest . is that not jingisim and chest beating ? every hundreds of people lose their life due to religious conflict . I cannot understand which God would have sanctioned such an act . Jingoism and chest beating is only between Christians and Islam . Islam has a intra religious conflict between them ( Shia and Sunni... add now the Salafi's ) and its a violent conflict . If only the had understood the 5 points raised by Abhijit Muhurtha , Life would have been so simple . I in no way refered to the debate between you and Suniti ji when I used the words Jingoism and Chest beating . Only the Shia's beat their chest , and the Christians are jingoistic about there concept of faith .

Best regards,
Deepak

[Nitin21]

Dear Astroboy,

Few of the frivolous claims made here by Mayavadis:

1. If my heart says right, I should be able to able to chant MMJ mantra in the middle of the alcohol session OR listening to Michael jackson beats of "Billie Jean". God is there for all and he will approve this. .. (It is implicitly understood that they have secret conversations with the Almighty who approves some acts in person and tells them don't tell anyone this is only for your approval ).

2. I can wear and remove the "fan-belt" as per my whims and timings irrespective of "Abhijit Muhurata" .

3. We are all one and also the reflections of one source only. Sir if you see mirror today tell me what you see, yourself, myself or the Brahman.

4. Brahman is alone real, we are all Maya(Illusion) ... There seems to be a big advancement in two things these days:

4.1. Industrialization of Maya by proprietor firms of Mayavadis
4.2 Self patented analysis of Brahman

5. Idol worship is the lowest form of Worship. It's a nursery vocation. As you grow older the saniddhi of the Lord vanishes from the Idol. Lord comes and speaks in the ear "You have grown up.. I am fed up being in your statue... Have other works too.. Have a good day and keep meditating on my attributes... Ooops non-attributes.. Ooops.. Sorry I am confused.. what is it that you believe I am ? Nirguna or Saguna ? .. Anyways keep meditating.. i will talk to you later.. bye for now"

6. Sri Krishna preaches contradictory ... this is the singlemost athiest statement held by Mayavadis.

7. Quote sanskrit verses from Upanishads written by the Trija guru and advocate the same as absolute truth ...


All this is pure blasphemy. When Lord said you can reach me anyhow anywhere, he did'nt mean to say chant OM mantras in the restroom OR reject/insult idol worship. He established easy mediums to access him via heartfelt prayers. Brahmins have exclusive access to the Lord for appropriate mediums, because their soul has gone through the purification process across births and in the current birth to be eligible for the same. That does not allow anyone to bad mouth their authenticity and put donkey and a horse on the same plane. Because when the Lord provides few exclusive rights to Brahmins, he does'nt say no other people can worship him. It is just that medium (Stotras, Artis, Poojas etc) is different. So to sensationalize the concept while refuting brahminism is derogatory to the all pervasive Lord, whose love is equal for everyone.

The sensationalism in this thread has been appalling to the least i must say. I do not pick up anyone for a debate, you must have seen that from my past interactions. Unless one is equipped with knowledge, there is no point in debating with someone. Suniti showed some illusions of knowledge and hence i proceeded. All in all, i was opposing a specific set of doctrine not the people.

And before I conclude here, I will say Lord Vishnu is Supreme. He is the pratibimba in various forms (not one) of the various bimbas(not one). These Bimbas are we in different forms. That IS the truth.

Mayavadis can chose to not respond as whatever i have written, as per them its Maya only .

Regards
Sonu

[astroboy]

To continue,

The great Vimalananda said , And I quote, " I have never believed in religion . religions are all limited because they concentrate only on one aspect of the truth. That is why they are always fighting amoungst each other, Because they all think they are in soul posession of the truth. But I say , there is no end to knowledge , so there is no use in trying to confine it to one scripture or holy book or one experience. That is why I say, when people ask me what religion I follow, " I dont believe in Sampradaya { sect} I believe in Sampradaha (Incineration ) . we must burn down everything which is getting in the way of your perception of the truth. " ( Aghora , Left Hand of God )


I have put this advice to practicle use . I flirt like a butterfly from one Religion to the other , looking for the nectar that can substain my spirituality . For example, I believe in charity , largly a christian concept , listen to Sufi Music , largly a Islamic concept , and do not believe in hurting any creature , a buddhist concept . Sufi music has substained me in my spirituality , all I have to do is think "Maula" is "God" . after all , its a interplay of words . The net meaning is the same .

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6QjPEKYiOXA

[astroboy]

A Tapasvi yoga is formed when four or more planets possessed of strengths occupy a single house in the chart.
The yoga seems simple enough, but the true strength and fructification lies else where . there must be a involvement of the 5, 9th, 10th, and the 12th lords in that single house . They must be strong without any affliction . The lord of the house where the planets are placed must be strong and be in the lagna, 5th,9th,10th or the 12th house in the Horoscope. The nature of the kind of tapas the person undertakes depends on the strongest planet amoungst the cluster .

[kunalbhardwaj27]

by astroboy » Sun Jan 23, 2011 9:19 pm

A Tapasvi yoga is formed when four or more planets possessed of strengths occupy a single house in the chart.
The yoga seems simple enough, but the true strength and fructification lies else where . there must be a involvement of the 5, 9th, 10th, and the 12th lords in that single house . They must be strong without any affliction . The lord of the house where the planets are placed must be strong and be in the lagna, 5th,9th,10th or the 12th house in the Horoscope. The nature of the kind of tapas the person undertakes depends on the strongest planet amoungst the cluster .

THANK GOD WE ARE BACK TO ASTROLOGY...

[Abhijit Muhurta !!!]

Astro sonu...you do have a sense of humor.....
My personal favorites were...2, 3, 4.1, 4.2 and 5
They put me in splits...

All the best to you with dwaita...and may lord Hari bless you
See you around...
Regards,

[milredr]

Dear astrosonu,
Ur first point may b dripping with sarcasm, but every word u said is true....ofcourse minus the sarcasm. Go ahead try it out sometime. God bless u.

[Abhijit Muhurta !!!]

Astroboy...

The great Vimalananda said , And I quote, " I have never believed in religion . religions are all limited because they concentrate only on one aspect of the truth. That is why they are always fighting amoungst each other, Because they all think they are in soul posession of the truth. But I say , there is no end to knowledge , so there is no use in trying to confine it to one scripture or holy book or one experience. That is why I say, when people ask me what religion I follow, " I dont believe in Sampradaya { sect} I believe in Sampradaha (Incineration ) . we must burn down everything which is getting in the way of your perception of the truth. "

Profound ....!!! It is said...to come into yourself....you dont need to do a thing....but to be something other than what you are ...you need to do a lot of things

[milredr]

Dear Astrosonu,

Here's something for all of us to think about. I got this in my pm. I cannot disclose who it is from. I have not even taken his permission to put it here. But i found it truly beautiful and hence decided to put it up here.....:-

"All of them are right.

The problem is not in the vedanta (Philosophy) but in the siddhanta (Achievement)

All these philosophies are grasped by the mind. but true spirituality lies in no mind. When the mind ceases to exist then the ego too vanishes. Then the real I surfaces and it is simply joy.

In this joy all concepts and philosophies vanish.

What people lack is personal experience.

When water can quench thirst people without searching for water actually start debating on it.

The need of the hour is the search for water.

Till that time whatever anyone thinks or feels is empty rhetoric stuff and nonsense.

Read the thread fully. Astroboy said that jesus told that he was the son of the father. Do you remember that jesus also told that me and my father are one and the same. This was not symbolic but simple truth.

The saints who propounded the theories of dwaita, adwaita would have still reached god even if they had followed any other path.

All roads lead only to rome.

Adishankara was not a vishnu dweshi. Not at all.
Here I quote his own words

Nagareshu Kaanchi - The greatest town is Kanchipuram
Naaryeshu Ramba - Ramba is the personification of beauty
Pushpeshu Jaathi - Jaathi is the greatest flower
Purusheshu Vishnu - Vishnu is the greatest of purushas

After propounding Advaita philosophy, Adi Shankara wrote hymns in praise of every single deity known in hinduism. This is dualism or dwaita.

Now if you can leave all the theories and simply strive to feel the divinity in you then that alone is spirituality"

Sir i am really sorry, i have gone ahead and posted this. I really liked what u said in simple words. And i had to share it with the others. Pl forgive me.

Thank u very much. God bless u.

Warm Regards,
Milred

[astroboy]

Beautiful thoughts Milred . I am glad you are freeing your mind and entertaining other concepts . Shankaracharya , as great as he was , had a lot of lessons to learn in his life . and he learnt it unwillingly but after much kicking . At first Shankaracharya refused to accept the role of Shakthi and said that only the Almighty lord should be worshipped . Shakthi had to teach him a lesson , once she did , Shankara realised his folly and then wrote the "Soundarya Lahari" in prase of the Divine Godess,

here is a example of the beauty of his verses

Vibhaktha-traivarnyam vyatikaritha-lila'njanathaya
Vibhati tvan-netra-trithayam idam Isana-dayite;
Punah strashtum devan Druhina-Hari-Rudran uparatan
Rajah sattvam vibhrat thama ithi gunanam trayam iva

Oh, Darling of God Shiva,
Those three eyes of thy,
Coloured in three shades,
By the eye shades you wear,
To enhance thy beauty,
are the three qualities,
Of satva, rajas and tamas,
As if to recreate the holy trinity,
Of Vishnu, Brahma and Rudra,
After they become one with you,
During the final deluge.

Best regards.

[astroboy]

This is the Horoscope of ShriShri Shri Ravi Shankar (the art of living ) (with others )

13 05 1956
5 - 10 AM'
Papanasam ( T.N.)
( Validiated and sourced from a famous astrologer From Bangalore , whose name I cannot reveal for obvious reasons . My client uses the same astrologer,( For every thing other than astrology ) and so I pulled some strings to get the data . I was behind these details ever since I started this thread . By the way this client of Mine is in the Mining business . He has a famous line which he always tells me . He says , this world is ruled by the pancha Boothas ( In Kannada Bootha means ghosts or evil sprits ). They are Politicians , press, priests (By extention astrologers,) Prostitutes and police . these 5 are like the 5 fingers on your hand , clench your fist and its impossible for any one to open it . . Each one cannot survive without the other . He claims to have seen several renowed spiritual Gurus in all their natural splender . He holds a very very dim view Shri Ravi Shankar , But since I have not seen Ravi Shankar in his true avatar , I reserve my comments . Some stories I was told about him are shocking to say the least . But I am no one to comment , and shall leave it at that .

[Dev]

Hi all:

We all know Dvaita was profounded by Madhavacharaya, Advaita by Adi Shankara and then Visistadvaita by Ramanujacharya.
Dvaita talks of duality, advitha of nonduality and then Visitadvaita of qualified nonduality.
So they were all gurus who had differences in terms of their thinking and vedic concepts but no personal enmity. So let follower of each follow his own and noone can intervene in others thinking. It is not easy to alter and change anothers way of thinking, irrespective of whether it is right or wrong.

Let people do what they feel is right. Otherwise it could only lead to arguments and the arguments are all be well talented people who are high in their philosophical and astrological skills.

If someone changes from one form of devotion to another, then it is his choice but otherwise, each one follows what he feels right, changes if he wants to. But it never works when another person tells him this is right and that is right.
Mr.TNSeshan for eg. embraced Visitadwaita from advaita on his own because he might have liked it but noone can convince him at all everyone knows.
So let everyone pray to their own guru but we need to respect other gurus too since they have profounded so many concepts and so are also great souls.
This is my humble feeling, that is all. Hope noone is offended. Anyway I know very little spirituality.

Dev

[astroboy]

By the way , The Latitude is 8 deg 44 and the Longitude is 77 deg 24 Lagna is at 14 deg 23 in Mesha .

[Basab]

Deeapk Sir,

What we are doing here is sitting in our cosy chair and discussing spirituality. If a thunder bolt strike us in the form of a disaster, spirituality is the first thing that will go out of our head. I have seen this happen to many people and to me too.

About good times, it is true that you don't bother about God. I have never had good times, so I am yet to confirm what I will do then. About bad times, well, I know very well. I remember in early 2009 I was going through the most difficult time in my life. It was March 2009. I was in an extremely difficult situation. Forget God, I had even forgotten the quote 'destiny is predestined'! I remember I was finding it difficult to accept the situation I was in, so difficult it was, never been in anything more difficult in my life, and when my mom told me that it's all destiny, and I have to be patient, I thought to myself: What the frack!, and I told my mom, 'I don't care whether it is destiny or not! I have to try to get out of this situation anyhow'. My mom, I am sure, was surprised because she knows I talk of nothing but destiny, and my not being able to tolerate the difficulty as destiny and trying to use my free will to get out of the mess was something new for her. But a month or two later when I was a little out of the mess, I again started talking about destiny and even started reading on spirituality. So all these topics are good to discuss when things are going more or less okay, but when one is in problem, he doesn't bother to think about God or destiny or spirituality. He knows he has to use his free will, even if nothing like that is there.

When you are hungry for a couple of days, 'what is dwaita and what is adwaita' will fly out of your mind, never to return. And then, some people talk about doing good for others: well, they are doing well themselves to think of doing good for others. For people like me, I need some help to think of helping others. Maybe that is the reason I don't bother about whether I am helping people or not.

This is why I find it funny sometimes when I see myself reading spiritual books and trying to understand life. It feels like spirituality is maya, and maya is the reality! Yes, the struggles for day-to-day living is the reality as I see it. What spiritual books say is just a comforting read, to make us forget the daily struggles of life. That is how I look at it sometimes, though I know it is not true. But when you are sitting in the lap of maya, and it's maya which surrounds you from all sides, finding reality is like trying to find a pin in a haystack. For that one needs to be Sherlock Holmes and not spiritual. This is what I feel sometimes.

Basab ji , Both states I described will make you forget God . You are absolutely right . My father used to say, "Politics and God are discussed when the Belly is full Till then, both do not matter " How true . While i was listening to the music , there was no thought of God . The only time I thought of any thing remotly spiritual was when I said to my self that these people were musicians in their past life too . Karma and rebirth are real .

As for the vendor, God will not decend to feed his Kids tomorrow for sure . He would have been cursing God and Fate .No time for spirituality .

[astroboy]

Bharathi Yoga occurs when The lord of the Navamsha sign occupied by the lord of the 5th is exalted and combined with or is the 9th house lord (original source unknown).
The person is a world famous and reputed scholar, religious, with love for music and romance, very attractive and possesses bewitching eyes.

Bharathi Yoga also occurs when The lord of the Navamsha sign occupied by the lord of the 2nd is exalted and combined with or is the 9th house lord (original source unknown).
The person is a world famous and reputed scholar, religious, with love for music and romance, very attractive and possesses bewitching eyes.

Chamara Yoga occurs when Exalted Lagna lord occupying a Kendra and aspected by Jupiter.
The person has kingship or honor through a king, eloquence, wisdom, knowledge of several subjects including sacred scriptures and a longevity of 71 years.

Lakshmi Yoga occurs when The Lagna lord is abundantly strong, and the lord of the 9th house occupies a Kendra identical to his own house, his Moolatrikona, or his exaltation.
The person is good in looks, virtuous, very wealthy, owns vast lands, learned, and illustrious king, widely renowned, blessed with numerous spouses, and children ( Spiritual children )

Bhagya Yoga occurs when Lagna, 3rd house or the 5th house hold a strong and a benefic planet, which aspects the 9th house (original source unknown).
The person will enjoy extreme fortune, wealth and pleasures.

[Dev]

I would like to add here that for realised souls nothing really matters. Ramanar, Vivekananda, Ramakrishna Paramahamsa, Shirdi Baba, St. Tyagaraja, Meerabai all had their own way of sadhana.
For the common souls, the real test would be when they undergo suffering. If they are realised, it wont affect them.

But for the common people, unfortunately everyone prays to God and turns to spirituality only when he is having problems in life. Those who have a life with all richness, try to enjoy materialistic aspects of life and doing all kinds of sins. Once again I am reminded of Kabir doha:
Dukh mein sumiran sab karai sukh mein karai no koy
jo sukh mein sumiran karai dukh kaho ko hoy

Only when people suffer, they turn to God, ask him to help them and so on and majority of those also turn to astrologers. But when they are happy, they think about themselves, and think they have done everything to achieve what they have achieved for eg if they get a PhD it is due to their own intelligen, if they are amongst the richest persons in the world it is due to their own efforts, if they have made some donation, they are equal to Karna or even greater, if they are handsome they are more so than Rati and Manmata and so on.
So he says when people are happy if they learn to pray God, then they are real balanced souls, if not they need God when they suffer and dont need anyone when they enjoy because when they enjoy they become God themselves and dont need another God. So dissolving the I is the one that is needed for them and they should realise that enjoyment is not permanent.

Dev