Navamsa to Rasi

[sphericalin]

There are many prevailing views about Navamsa that exist.

Upon reading on this forum, the best view is that houses exist in only in D1 chart, which works on Material plane. Other Vargas such as D7, D9 etc. only work on astral level. One goes into these astral Vargas to understand what is behind the scene.

Navamsa, is active the day you are born. Various views says Navamsa becomes major chart, but actually it is the planets that mature as we age, like Mars matures at 28, Saturn at 35, hence Navamsa has more say in things, bit not more that what's in Rasi D1.

Only, thing I could understand, if there are no houses in Vargas, why do we say, 7th house of D9 and the sign in it. To intepret D9, takes sign in 7th house of D9 and bring it to D1 to interpret? There are no houses in D9,so why is it said sign in 7th house of D9 or 5th house of D9?

[sphericalin]

Further, I did study Navamsa as a standalone chart of the people I know and things were coming on spot on, could this be a coincidence?

Like, if I consider, houses in navamsa, sun in 7th house and when no house, sun in Libra in rasi in 8th house and in Gemini navamasa

[sphericalin]

Some knowledge sharing please

[sphericalin]

There are many resources/opinions, with chart of individual, which says divisional D-9 chart can be used as standalone...

If, I take my case and my age, things have started to somehow, work as is shown in D-9 chart.

So, should one mix energies based on house of D-1 and the planet in the same house in D-9( now a problem here as it is said, no houses in D-9).

Say, Saturn in 3rd house in D-1 and mercury in 3rd house in D-9...So, is it Saturn interlaced with mercury energy?

[Amogh]

The navāmśa is not analysed as a standalone chart as per the traditional system. The best method is rāśi tulya navāmśa which is approved by the ancient treatises and Sri C S Patel has written on it in his books.

The 7th of D9 makes no sense as there are no houses in divisions. So see which rāśi falls in 7th of D1 and then see which Graha is in that in navāmśa. For example for Karka Ascendant, Makara falls in 7th. So Sri Varāhamihira (Stri Jātaka Adhyāya) says that husband will be old and less intelligent if Shani is in Makara navāmśa. This is how rāśi tulya navāmśa works. Hope this clarifies your query.

Sarvam Suryārpanamastu.

[tylorechandra]

Many astrologers including me analyze all divisional charts as independent charts with the same signs as a standard chart. Even though each Nakshatra pada is only the 9th part of a rasi, there are 9 padas in one rasi of the Navamsa chart making up the full 30 degrees of the sign. It is a different matter that the piecemeal longitudes of the Nakshatra padas as per the Rasi chart are not in a contiguous sequence in the Navamsa chart. There are some astrologers who will even find the degree of a planet in the Navamsa chart by assuming the 3deg20min of nakshatra pada in the Rasi chart as equal to 30 degrees in the Navamsa chart and finding the longitude corresponding to that planet in the Navamsa chart.
In fact if you deeply study the chart as per Rasi Tulya Navamsa process you are indeed studying the Navamsa chart as an individual chart but with the Lagna as in D1.

[Amogh]

Tylorechandra ji, this is actually a mathematical fallacy. Vargas are not meant to be read as standalone charts as per the rules of Arśa jyotiṣa. Even the Jain & Yavana schools deny this method. In fact, a discussion has already occurred on this forum previously wherein rathore ji and chandralagna ji have expressed their views with solid proofs.

3°20' = 1 Rāśi in navāmśa is another absurd concept. I know who has invented this rubbish theory. When you do the calculations yourself without any software, you will realise how difficult task it is! In reality, the Rṣis never suggested reading Varga as a standalone chart.

Rāśi tulya navāmśa and navāmśa 'chart' are not the same. The entire Horā Skandha is based on Lagna and there's only one Lagna i.e. in the rāśi chart.

[tylorechandra]

Thank you. I am aware of all the discussions on this forum.

[ADC]

Mr. Amogh,

All the classical texts on astrology emphasize the significance of aspects in divisional charts, and this approach is widely used by some of the most respected astrologers around the world. Even the owner of this site follows this methodology. In Indian astrology, Vargas are considered independent charts, each offering valuable insights.The proofs presented in the earlier discussion were interpreted in a one-sided manner.

[Amogh]

Mr ADC,

None of the classical texts support the idea of reading the varga as separate charts. Varāha Horā has dictums on using varga. Please read the previous discussions on this forum again.

Additionally, I have interacted with jyotiṣīs belonging to authentic traditions and they do not endorse this idea of reading varga as independent charts. With due respect, those renowned astrologers and authors are on a wrong path and I do not agree with their views.

The previous discussions were not one-sided but those conversations are difficult to understand if you are reading the texts with a modern lense.

Regards.

[ADC]

I appreciate your great knowledge of astrology. Could you please enlighten the owner of this site, who also believes in the concept of aspects in divisional charts? I quote:

“The intelligent astrologer should carefully consider the house lords in the divisional charts, without which it is not possible to go even a step into the vast ocean of Jyotish.”

At the time of my parent’s wedding, my dad was in his Moon-Rahu dasha. Please see his D9 navamsha chart with Virgo ascendant. From Virgo, the Moon is in the 12th house, and Rahu is in the 8th house. Neither the Moon nor Rahuhave any connection with the 7th house, 7th lord, or the karaka of marriage, Venus. However, this entirely changes when you change the birth time three minutes earlier, making Leo the ascendant. Please seeFrom Leo, the Moon is in the ascendant and aspects the 7th house, while Rahu is aspected by the 7th lord, Saturn. Like in the D10 dashamsha chart, the Moon is placed in the ascendant of the relevant divisional chart, the D9 navamsha chart. With Leo ascendant, it makes sense that my dad would marry during his Moon-Rahu dasha. The result: The Leo ascendant in the D9 is confirmed to be correct.

Manley M.A. , Paul. Birth Time Rectification: How To Find Your Exact Birth Time (p. 57). Sita Ram Publications. Kindle Edition.

Manley M.A. , Paul. Birth Time Rectification: How To Find Your Exact Birth Time (pp. 56-57). Sita Ram Publications. Kindle Edition.

Manley M.A. , Paul. Birth Time Rectification: How To Find Your Exact Birth Time (p. 56). Sita Ram Publications. Kindle Edition.

[Amogh]

Mr ADC,

The owner of this site and even you are free to follow whichever method you want to. I have highlighted the traditional jyotiṣa rules which deny using varga as independent charts. What you have quoted is a mistranslation of a verse from Sārāvali. About the example, it is possible to do fixing work and express it as a research but that's not the authentic jyotiṣa. Quoting modern authors makes no sense because almost all of them have deviated from the classical teachings.

Regards.

[ADC]

Mr Amogh , I have not quoted anything from Saravali, as mentioned in your reply. I quoted from the following book:

Manley M.A., Paul. Birth Time Rectification: How to Find Your Exact Birth Time (p. 56). Sita Ram Publications. Kindle Edition. To have credibility in astrology, it is crucial to make accurate predictions. Commentators are different from the players who are actively involved in the match.

[Amogh]

The quotation is very similar to a verse from Sārāvali but it has been conveniently misinterpreted to suit the narratives.

I am very well aware that to have 'credibility' in astrology, it's necessary to make predictions.

[htcjsb]

Weightage of the planet in divisional chart like D9 really matters here. Eg a planet from D1 getting vargottam in D9 is considered strong and gaining strength. Now if that planet is not favourable for the D1 chart but gotten strength by becoming vargottam then its not in the benefit of the person. But say the ascendant, ascendant lord or 9th Lord became vargottam in D9 then that could imply that person could do well in life. And note that these are too generic statements to make this way. Please read my other post comment reply on D81.

[lovacrs]

I was part of the earlier discussions too. I had suggested that those who hold on to 'Divisions are not charts' should take up some charts in entirety(NOT placement of one graha) and explain it using 'non-chart methods'. It would be even better if these charts are those that were used by those who hold on to 'Divisional chart' view.

Personally I prefer to follow a method that CONSISTENTLY works, irrespective of whether it is based on classics or softwares. I am yet to see a convincing attempt from those who hold 'Divisions are not charts' view.

[Amogh]

CRS Ji,

I follow the method which works 'consistently' and is given by the 'sages'. To understand how the 'non-charts' method works, you can visit Varanasi or Kerala and get it clarified from a traditional jyotiṣī.

Regards

[lovacrs]

CRS Ji,

I follow the method which works 'consistently' and is given by the 'sages'. To understand how the 'non-charts' method works, you can visit Varanasi or Kerala and get it clarified from a traditional jyotiṣī.

Regards

Amogh ji,
Please share some case studies.

[ChandraLagna]

I was part of the earlier discussions too. I had suggested that those who hold on to 'Divisions are not charts' should take up some charts in entirety(NOT placement of one graha) and explain it using 'non-chart methods'. It would be even better if these charts are those that were used by those who hold on to 'Divisional chart' view.

Personally I prefer to follow a method that CONSISTENTLY works, irrespective of whether it is based on classics or softwares. I am yet to see a convincing attempt from those who hold 'Divisions are not charts' view.

Nice to see you back sir, and on our favorite topic as well ! Applies to me as well, writing here after 4 years!

The current discussion, like in the past has focused on the means, the techniques used to analyze vargas and whether they pass the test of logic, common sense and have any basis in texts. The vargas-are-independent-charts have NO such basis. Predictions/case studies are the second step if/when we get past the basics.

You can absolutely follow the approach that these do not matter as long as I get consistent predictions right, which by your post seems to suggest that vargas-as-chart approach seems to provide. The burden of proof is on you sir, to back up that statement with case studies, and in a true spirit of "vaada" which is to get at the truth rather than jalpa/vitanda which is to prove the other party wrong. It is quite unequal to state that my approach works consistently, now prove your's where only one party does the work i.e. easier to adjudicate and harder to participate on equal terms.

Keeping aside for now the aspect of predictions, the vargas-as-chart approach has to first explain how a grha can aspect at any degree based on which varga one chooses to analyze, how tithi can be purnima in Rasi but amavasya in Navamsa, how Rahu & Ketu can be in a "house" in particular vargas!

[Grahavidya]

A very interesting discussion and also one that brings some insights into works related to Chandrakala Nadi and CS Patelji. There is also a book by Shri T S Vasan on this. The only challenge I faced is that no one has so far published anything making the ideas shared by Shri C S Patel as the basis and providing instructive material. No doubt what Shri CS Patelji has presented is basis the classical works of Kerela primarily.

While all ideas are and can be taken from an ancient text, some of us must take the burden of research (apply the idea to at least 20 charts of established people) and share those finding. I find books by Shri K N Rao and Marc Boney following that method and show casing a methodology.

Take the example of Shri Sehadri Iyers research where in he formulated certain primciples for Dasha interpretation in Varga Charts. He oes not use bhava associations, but applies what he calls Sankhya Yogas, however in my use of that I have not found consistent results.

I have found the that using Vargas as regular charts and applying aspects to be helpful in predictions and tracing events retrospectively. Not to say that what other scholars here have said is wrong, but respecting those views, I would request some to throw light of the application of these ideas.

I can offer many examples from my studies which have helped ma take Vargas as charts, houses and lordships in Vargas and aspects too. And would really like to enhance my understanding of this huge area of knowledge by understanding how to use vargas without bhavas and aspects.

I offer my Chart for the base of these discussions and will openly share / confirm any aspect any scholar wants to cross check basis any mothodology.

28th September 1966
12:28 pm (Military Hospital Record)
Lucknow
Uttar Pradesh
India
Asc : Sagittarius 5' 46"

[lovacrs]

Nice to see you back sir, and on our favorite topic as well ! Applies to me as well, writing here after 4 years!

The current discussion, like in the past has focused on the means, the techniques used to analyze vargas and whether they pass the test of logic, common sense and have any basis in texts. The vargas-are-independent-charts have NO such basis. Predictions/case studies are the second step if/when we get past the basics.

You can absolutely follow the approach that these do not matter as long as I get consistent predictions right, which by your post seems to suggest that vargas-as-chart approach seems to provide. The burden of proof is on you sir, to back up that statement with case studies, and in a true spirit of "vaada" which is to get at the truth rather than jalpa/vitanda which is to prove the other party wrong. It is quite unequal to state that my approach works consistently, now prove your's where only one party does the work i.e. easier to adjudicate and harder to participate on equal terms.

Keeping aside for now the aspect of predictions, the vargas-as-chart approach has to first explain how a grha can aspect at any degree based on which varga one chooses to analyze, how tithi can be purnima in Rasi but amavasya in Navamsa, how Rahu & Ketu can be in a "house" in particular vargas!

Namasthe ChandraLagna ji and welcome back to the "vaada" that promises to be full of "vivaada" and hopefully not "vithanda vaada"

As a matter of fact I am still open minded and not convinced of either approach.

As for the "Dvisions are charts" approach, I have seen number of illustrations of its usage. PVN Rao has given many charts are as use cases. Srikanthji has written a set of posts on this forum about saptamsha using this approach. BUT my attempts to apply that has not given consistent results.

On the other hand I am yet to see even a single use case by those who hold the view that "Divisions are not charts". I have requested for this time and again. Once someone comes up with a comprehensive writeup on applying these non-chart methods, we can apply them on couple of charts and check whether they work consistently.

As for the logic, the fundamental assumption that astro bodies do influence events itself is "logically" insupportable. It is more a matter of belief/faith. The idea that two bodies 10 degrees apart in the visual sky will have influences on events as though they are 120 degrees apart is perhaps an illogical extension of an illogical assumption.

When it comes to "vaada" I have seen many quoting "classics" with vehemence. Personally, I would think that we need to be conscious that these texts were "written" for a dramatically different society and different style of living. The versions that we have on hand today - whether they reflect the "original" in authenticty is a matter of debate that is unlikely to be settled soon. Ultimately, I think the best way would be to go by the adage "proof of the pudding lies in.."

I eagerly await some case studies using non-chart methods. If in fact someone could take a case quoted by PVN Rao and offer non-chart explanations for the same event that would be even better.