KP vs full traiditional

[lovacrs]

I have been following the thread on KP System and various opinions expressed therein. I thought the following chart may bring out the pros/cons of both approaches. I invite fellow members to give a try.

Female 12Jul91 20:45 (Hospital record) Shimoga

Please predict the possible timing for marriage.

For the sake of birth rectification, should you want to validate:

Profession - Software engineer has two siblings one elder and one younger.

As one can see possibilities are numerous from a traditional perspective. I expect to hear the reasons for your specific choice from amongst these. KP delineation can come with their own reasoning.

[ADC]

Attractive girl with strong combinations for love marriage. Time is on for marriage. Only 19 A.V points in 7H, minimum required for marriage. Saturn[ eunuch] and Mercury[ eunuch] planets at 1-7 axis delayed a bit but Jupiter and Moon in 7H will grant the marriage. Though Moon the 7L in 7H is very weak in Paksha Balam. LL Saturn is exalted in D-60 will give good results as Mercury-Saturn-Venus is on.

[ADC]

Moon-Saturn Nk exchange as 1-7 axis and aspect of Saturn on Moon and Mercury may give melancholy and dejection.

[vedam33]

Mars Venus conjunction gives inter caste or inter religious

[Kimahy]

I will do analysis based on 4 step theory.. birth time verification... today @16.48 hrs, birmingham,alabama on 24th June 2019 moon was in sign of jupiter and star and sub of saturn. Saturn is in own sub

As per given time that is 20.45 hrs, 12th July, 1991, place shimoga,karnataka.. ascendant falls in capricorn ruled by saturn in star of mars and sub of rahu.

In birth chart Saturn, Jupiter and Mars are in Moon Sub.
Ruling planet moon's sublord rahu is not connected with saturn... so birth time is not accurate... Rahu sub started at 20.43.55 hrs... prior to that it was mars sub start time was 20.43.41... now mars is connected with moon's ruling planet saturn.

Considering 20.43.41 as rectified time... let's verify education...

4th cuspal sublord jupiter. Jupiter is in mercury star and in sub of moon. moon is in saturn star...
]Mercury represents language. Software programming is also language, mercury also represent intelligent to learn logic...

9th cuspal sublord venus. venus is in ketu star and sub of rahu. rahu is in venus star.

venus beautifies things... if mercury is intelligent, logic then venus will beautify the intelligent, logic in terms of programming giving beautiful logical graphical user output...

Ketu is natural significator of electricity... wifi...research based...

Rahu represents... new age technology... software, aerospace, programming...

venus signification
venus as a planet - none
starlord ketu - 6,8
sublord rahu - 12,6,8
starlord of rahu is venus - 7,4,5,9,3,10,11

venus is significator of 3(information),5(bachelors degree),9( post graduation),10(work environment),11(success)

cont.....

[Kimahy]

Marriage.... punarphoo dosha... Saturn in moon star and moon is in saturn star... delayed marriage, break of engagement etc...

7th Cuspal Sublord Mars. Mars is in ketu star and moon sub. moon is in saturn star.

Mars is untenanted. Mars is in 7th and lord of 3rd, 10th and 11th.. Mars conjuncts venus. Ketu is in 6th. Ketu conjuncts sun. Saturn is in Moon star. Saturn is in 12th and lord of 1st and 2nd... Saturn is aspected by moon.

Mars signification ...
Mars as a planet - 7,3,10,11,5,9
Starlord Ketu - 6,8
Sublord Moon - none
Starlord of Moon is Saturn - 12,1,2,6


Mars is significator of 2nd(addition to family), 7th(primary house of marriage, 11( fulfilment of desires)... marriage is promised in the chart..

checking love marriage... 5th cuspal sublord saturn.
saturn is in moon star and sub of moon and moon is in saturn sub.. Saturn is not connected to 7th cusp... love marriage ruled out...

characteristics of partner ---tall, well built, dark complexion,active,argumentative... he will be come from same town, may come from one of the friends family... He will be connected with the same profession computing, software etc...

timing... ketu dasa - significator of 7th...
bhukti venus-(natural significator of marriage) - significator of 7,11
anatra - mars - significator of 2nd, 7th,11.. as matter of fact moon,mars, jupiter are all significator of 2nd and 7th house... August till end of Dec 2021...

*** Uranus, Neptune aspects sun and ketu... married life will not be contend...

[lovacrs]

ADC, vedam33 - Please try and come up with timing with reasons.
Kimahy - Could not understand how Ketu signifies 7th? It is in 6th (both traditional and KP). SL Ju is also in 6th (KP). Sign Lord Me is also in 6th (KP). Kindly clarify.
The reason that I selected this chart is the fact that there are many grahas in 6/7/8. While in traditional you have the challenge of too many choices, in KP perhaps too many negators!
Some interesting pointers have come from the three of you. I hope more will join and add.

[ADC]

Lovacrs, I have clearly given the reason that anter Dasha of Saturn[LL] is on. Lagna is also the 7th from 7th and Venus is the natural karka for marriage. LL and 7L aspecting each other at 1-7 axis with the blessings of 9L[Mercury ] should give the marriage. Time is on for marriage at present . Chart indicates love marriage.

[lovacrs]

Thanks ADC. Since you used the word "delay" I was a bit confused.

[ADC]

Any feedback on my observations?

[Kimahy]

Kimahy - Could not understand how Ketu signifies 7th? It is in 6th (both traditional and KP). SL Ju is also in 6th (KP). Sign Lord Me is also in 6th (KP). Kindly clarify.

Jupiter is in cancer@23 degree 4 min and 7th cusp falls in cancer @24 degree 3mins.. Jupiter will give results of 7th cusp. and jupiter is starlord of Ketu.

[lovacrs]

ADC - I am waiting for input from others. It will be interesting to see inputs that are not coloured by hindsight. I am hoping Lex, Joyd, CL and others will give it a try.

Kimahy - Thanks for the explanation.

[kaushik_sriram]

My take on analysis of the chart as per Vedic and Ashtakavarga .
Lagna is Capricorn .sat lord of 2nd is aspecting 7th house 11th house so delay of marraige. Next jup is in 7th house is aspecting sat lord of second sat .further as jup is in the navamsa of Aquarius so it cant modify the delay of sat.there is one zero given by sat to 8th house.jup in transit has to rectify defects by aspecting 7th house or 7th lord .after rectifying of defects by jup plus one zero ,the delay will be over in the year 2025 .at that time mercury antardasa is running from sep 2025 to 2026 sep ,so there is fair chance of getting married.
Since sat is aspecting venus ,sun and moon .happiness from marraige is less. Mars with venus gives either inter caste or inter religious.
There might have been break in love or engagement .
The person who posted the chart may confirm

[lovacrs]

Thanks kuashik sriram. Shall get back. Waiting for others to tune in.

[lovacrs]

Well, I assume there are no more inputs. Here are my feedback:

The girl got married in first half of March 2019. It was a love/arranged, inter caste (not inter religion) with a colleague. Both are abroad.
From Traditional analysis perspective are we clear as to why Sa/Mo linkage had no impact on marriage. Related to this question is why Me-Ju period did not lead to a marriage and instead Me-Sa did.
From KP perspective marriage took place in Me-Sa-Ve period. Me and Sa primarily signify 6th house. Me-Ju period would have been OK since Ju is conjunct 7th cusp.

[ADC]

So the analysis done earlier with time frame is correct?

[vedam33]

I think time of birth might be wrong ,with the time of birth there is delay in marraige

[sammyho148]

Interesting exercise....

My views from an astrology point of view (obviously with the benefit of hindsight)

Venus is with Mars in the same sign separated by less than 4 degrees. As per Nadi astrology this is indication of an early marriage, the only reason marriage happened in a timely manner and not early is due to Saturn influence. In this chart Saturn Moon influence does not negate since Moon is 7th lord in own sign supported by exalted Jupiter. Saturn also in own sign and exchanges nakshatras with Moon. There are no other delaying influences on the 7th house or 7th lord.

In D9, Moon occupies sign of Mercury who is placed in 7th sign in D1. Mercury thus empowered to give marriage since he occupies 7th sign in D1 and also is dispositor of Moon in D9. Jupiter is also empowered to give marriage, in fact relationship would have started during Ju AD and marriage happened in Saturn AD.


My views as an objective individual, no longer purely astrological....

On astrology forums we usually do not get cases of timely marriage, we get cases of delayed marriage, bad marriage or no marriage. Hence out first instinct may be to look for problems, if you look hard enough you will always see problems in a chart! The subjectivity component is very important in analysis if it is a minor niggle or a big problem - for this we need to see equal number of problematic and smooth charts so that we can make that distinction.

On the same logic, in this chart seeing marriage in context of why it did not happen in Jup AD is a near sighted approach. If a relationship started in Jup AD and culminated in marriage in Sat AD, in a worldly sense Jup is a bigger marriage maker than Saturn in the chart. Jupiter has done all the hard work while Saturn has just caused the event to fructify

[lovacrs]

sammyho148 - Me's role is never under question in traditional approach. Relationship starting in Me-Ju period is a conjecture I am not able to confirm. But even then, relationship is a 5th house matter. Ju is unrelated to 5th house and is usually seen to support "tradition" (not inter caste romance) especially since it is exalted. It is also in 2/12 relation with Ve who is the normally seen for romance.
Even if you ignore this, Sa as a choice for fructification is far fetched, not supported by any traditional rules. Even in Navamsa Sa's placement is unrelated to marriage.
The only link that I could imagine is that as kaaraka of 8th (Ve is in 8th from Sa) which is considered as Maangalya sthana in a female chart. But does this work in all female charts?

[Lex]

Hi Lovacrs

I was away. Lets see your case with science and mathematical way and also through Logical.. only way K.P.System

As I began to populate the chart... today Monday, and in the Celestial map at my Latitude... Udaya lagna was transiting in Makara, Shani and deposited in Uttarashada nk and in sub of Shukra, with Budha and Kuja aspects Udaya lagna, and today Chandra in Shukra's sign and in Mrigasirsa nk and Guru aepcts
Very clear.. Chandra in her Chart Chandra has to be connected with Guru or Shukra or Kuja

At her time of birth mentioned by you...2045... Chandra was in her sign and deposited in Pushya nk, with Guru conjunction.. and she was born on Friday
That tallies today with my Celestial map latitude analysis

Her Lagna sputa cusp also got connected to my Celestial map Latitude analysis

Her Lagna sputa cusp in Dhanista nk and in sub of Rahu, and Rahu in Purvashada nk
Lets check her time of birth..... Is it correct ?

In her K.P. Chart...Guru is not 3rd cusp lord, but only 2nd cosign lord but more of sign signification, Guru is only 12th cusp lord, her Budha is only 6th cusp lord.. 9th cusp lord is Shukra
Further.. her Budha and Guru in nearly rapt conjunction ( Guru is in rapt conjunction with 7th cusp), hher Kuja and Shukra in rapt conjunction... therefore joint results of bhavas.. Guru & Budha and Shukra/Kuja

Kuja & Shukra in rapt conjunction, Rau in Purvashada nk… Time of Birth is correct


You said... she has co-borns.. Lets check.. Analysing 3rd cusp depositions and Kuja's relation... very good relation... she is blessed to have co-borns

You said.. She is working as software... 10th cusp in Kuja's sign and deposited in Visaka nk and in sub of Rahu, and Rahu in Purvashada nk
Kuja is 10th cusp lord and as well as 11th, Rahu getting associated with Shukra( Guru/Budha in rapt conjunction)… She is in software... she will continue to be in software development/training etc

You said she had relationship and married a office guy
analysis of her 5th cusp in Mrigasirsa nk and in sub of Shani
Shani in her 12th bhava and in Shravana nk
Kuja & Shukra in 7th bhava, Shani got connected to 7th bhava
Love and arranged married.. Kuja is her 3rd cusp lord and hukra is her 9th cusp lord... in agreement
Groom from office.. colleague
AS I said her earlier.. Guru in rapt conjunction with 7th cusp
( Rahu represents Guru and as well as Shukra additionally Ravi) Kuja is her 10th cusp lord with 5th cusp lord in rapt conjunction in 7th bhava

You said , they got married in March 2019
Budha dasa… Budha in 6th bhava but in rapt conjunction with 2nd co-sign lord Guru, which is in rapt conjunction with 7th cusp... and Budha in sub of Shukra ( invariably gave her long journey, Love marriage, residence

7th bhava... influenced by Rahu, Shukra, Kuja, Shani, Chandra... AND GURU ( Her 7th cusp deposition is also in Aslesha nk in sub of Rahu)

11th bhava... influenced by Rahu, Kuja and SHUKRA


2Nd bhava... Chandra Shani

1st half of March 2019... Budha… Shani... Shukra-- Kuja period.. Perfect

On a side note

Her separation is inevitable in future.

She is abroad... because Her 12th cusp longitudinal analysis tells me... she will go to abroad
3rd cusp lord, 9th cusp lord rapt conjunction... 3rd cusp lord is also 10th cusp lord
( as I said earlier.. her Budha & Guru in rapt conjunction)

[ADC]

Saturn is the Lagna lord in D-1 and 7th lord in D-9. As per your post, you used the word please predict the time of marriage ,which means it has not happened yet. Still predicted correctly though you have not acknowledged it yet. Time of birth looks to me 20.50 Hrs.

[Lex]

I have been following the thread on KP System and various opinions expressed therein.

Thank you for following the thread on K.P. System of astrology.

[vedam33]

Mars with Venus will give intercaste or inter religious,irrespective of location in chart . Can you give any other important events of the chart you shared for confirmation of time of birth

[sammyho148]

@lovacrs

Saturn giving marriage is not surprising at all since he is under aspect of 7th lord Moon within orb of 3 degrees,this is applying aspect since Saturn is retrograde. He also owns the 2nd bhava of addition to family. Planets that are either conjuct the 7th lord or aspected by 7th lord are fully empowered to give marriage in their sub periods if the dasa lord is also indicating the same. Mercury and Saturn both satisfy the conditions.

Seen from Venus too....Moon, Jupiter & Mercury are in 12th from Venus. The 7th lord from Venus has a role to play in bringing about the spouse which is Saturn.

This is where the chart gets interesting - Mercury as the cause of marriage when in 12th from Venus has a tendency to give a partner who can be immature and irritating. This Mercury is also the 6th lord in the chart, though marriage has happened conflicts are inevitable for this very reason. Mercury supports his 6th house agenda in chart and not the 9th house agenda. Native follows this dasa up with beginning of Ketu dasa which once again occupies 6th house - this is unlikely to smooth for married life.

Also Jupiter and Saturn are debilitated in D9, over time the native is likely to come to the conclusion that she should have thought through things better before getting married. Husband is likely to cause a lot of irritation and will not meet her standards - whatever they are, with a debilitated Jupiter in D9 I have rarely seen cases where the wife is happy and content with the husband.

[Bhishma]

From KP perspective marriage took place in Me-Sa-Ve period. Me and Sa primarily signify 6th house. Me-Ju period would have been OK since Ju is conjunct 7th cusp.

@lovacrs Ji, your grasp is exact, Dasa lord Me ( CSL of 6th & 12th ) being a strong significator of 6 and Bhukti lord Sa adding staunch support to the same ( 6 & 12 significations ) should have not promised marriage as per KP perspectives. But, the core KP principle [ Sub Lord Speaks ] had proved what it meant and it follows as below

" SL of Dasa lord will have the FINAL SAY in the concerned bhava matters and it will over ride the final results of underlying Bhukthi and Anthra SL's "

Thus, the SL of Me, Ve (supporter of Love & Marriage related Cusps) rejected the plea. But, had Ve been the 6th significator again then this event would not have been fructified so easily.