Father - 9th or 10th Bhava

[v-rachen]

According to BPHS (Chapter 11, Sloka 11), Karma Bhava (10th) is for Father. But I've seen everyone using 9th for father. Which one is right?

10. Indications of Dharm Bhava. Fortunes, wife’s brother, religion, brother’s wife, visits to shrines etc. be known from Dharm Bhava.
11. Indications of Karm Bhava. Royalty (authority), place, profession (livelihood), honour, father, living in foreign lands and debts are to be understood from Karm Bhava.

[Vamanaavataram012]

Father is 7th from the 4th aka 10th house, so your mothers husband. 9th house because father in orthodox human terms if you have a mother plus father, father is the first guru. He will take you out into the world, journeys, higher learning.

[Lex]

Father is 7th from the 4th aka 10th house, so your mothers husband. 9th house because father in orthodox human terms if you have a mother plus father, father is the first guru. He will take you out into the world, journeys, higher learning.

Don't derail Sages astrological principles, without your illogical and non citation of Sages slokas on respective bhavas.

v-rachen you can ignore that reply, it is against Jyotisham and non-scientific reasoning.

[Yayathi]

From,my experience,I found that 10th house is more suitable than 9th house for father.

[Vamanaavataram012]

Lex father is the first guru for a lot of mankind, my answer is biological as well. Fathers take their sons out to the world, mother shelters. You can use both 10th and 9th house.

Why would I say something against jyotisham? I gave answers to both 10th and 9th. Even Sages slokas differ on house meanings.

Im sorry if you found it against something, or if it was negative, it was a innocent reply without ill intent.

[Lex]

From,my experience,I found that 10th house is more suitable than 9th house for father.

v-rachen read the below too. and enquires what happens Shani in 10th.... and talks about....experience.... this what happens in Jyotisham frauding , without any kind of rational or citation of sages slokas....

Saturn in Dasamsa
Post
by Yayathi » Sat Mar 24, 2018 5:02 pm
What does Saturn in the 10th house of Dasamsa Chart mean ?
Some says,it causes unemployment.Is it true ?

[Vamanaavataram012]

Im sorry you feel that way Lex, but going around judging posts denouncing what is written. is jjust bad manners. Not everybody is gonna read even sloka, sastra etc. You are giving off a holier than thou attitude.

Are you the spokesperson for all jyotish/astrology? You might as well say don't use western astrology because its not mentioned in the ancient texts, yet im sure there are western astrologers who would give you a run for your money. And then you go to another post in another forum, where the the question was answered, declaring frauds and being judge. With so many posts on these boards, these are learning forums, we ask questions, not attack each other. Calm down, its a question. Not a judge of person is right or not.

[Yayathi]

Dear Lex,
I have already mentioned that Jyothisham as you quoted is a vast subject and None of the astrologers currently present in this entire world know all about astrology.By this,I do not mean that I am an accomplished astrologer.Doubts are common and infact it is a good sign for a student to have doubts.
Kindly,read my reply once more,Experience means practical contact with and observation of facts or
events.Here the time span of experience is not taken into consideration.
I have also seen your reply on Vamanavatharam Ji's post,its just his opinion on the question.Please don't under estimate anyone.Please take it as a friendly opinion.

Thank You

[v-rachen]

Thanks Friends. I would appreciate if anyone provides the answer.

[tylorechandra]

Purely from a study of many charts, I feel the 9th is a better indicator of Father. In western astrology, however, they use the 10th. The texts are to be used as broad and basic guidelines but, according to me, testing out new methodologies are to be welcome. Closed minds don't open many doors.

TKC

[Lex]

Lex father is the first guru for a lot of mankind, my answer is biological as well. Fathers take their sons out to the world, mother shelters. You can use both 10th and 9th house.

Why would I say something against jyotisham? I gave answers to both 10th and 9th. Even Sages slokas differ on house meanings.

Im sorry if you found it against something, or if it was negative, it was a innocent reply without ill intent.

Sages sloka will not differ on bhavas signification, when it is 9th, it means 9th. cannot be 10th. 10th is Karmastana, which is also one's matru's potent marakstana as well, and 10th of one's natal chart, becomes father's marakstana too

[Lex]

Im sorry you feel that way Lex, but going around judging posts denouncing what is written. is jjust bad manners. Not everybody is gonna read even sloka, sastra etc. You are giving off a holier than thou attitude.

This forum is Vedic astrology... so when answering queries to querants, should be based on sages doctrines, Vedas and Sastras. And don't underestimate ppl don't read slokas or Sastra etc... and you are taking granted querants in a Public forum on Vedas related to Sages. ( will read or understand sloka setc)
Yes. when it is Vedic astrology... one has to be holier attitude.
And it is a public forum, everyone will go around judge the posts. Challenging with scaince and Sages doctrines in Vedic astrology isn't a bad manner.

Are you the spokesperson for all jyotish/astrology? You might as well say don't use western astrology because its not mentioned in the ancient texts, yet im sure there are western astrologers who would give you a run for your money. And then you go to another post in another forum, where the the question was answered, declaring frauds and being judge. With so many posts on these boards, these are learning forums, we ask questions, not attack each other. Calm down, its a question. Not a judge of person is right or not.

As I said earlier too, this forum is Vedic astrology, so sayana or Tropical or Western sytem of astrology posts are not allowed. Not concerned of western or Arabic or your Chinese or Singapore system astrology.
And regarding spokesperson, yes I am a member of this group in Vedic astrology, therefore Challenged the improper/ fraud response on 10th bhava signification, thereby prevented wrong understanding of vedic astrology to raised question by the querant
It is not attack/ it is a challenge.... so read properly.... and anykind of scientific/ rationale debate has to be there

[Yayathi]

Brihat Parasara Hora Shastra,Chapter 13,Verse 11

"raajyaM caakaasha-vRittiM ca
maanaM caiva pitus-tathaa.
pravaasasya RiNasyaapi
vyoma-sthaanaan-niriikShaNam"

Which literally translates as follows:

The “House of the Sky” [10th House]
primarily reveals one’s chosen public role
(“Career”) and the level of sovereignty
and prestige one attains thereby. It also
describes the father, and can even
describe one’s debts and the likelihood of
living far away from “home.”

What is point of debating in this topic,while sage Parashara had already described it in his text BPHS.

Thank you

[joyd]

Dear Vaman-one must read BHPHS for sound understanding on basics.In varga vivechana chapter,sage clearly hinted in sloka number-39, as "Navamae pi pithurarajavam".It means Father should be judged or seen from 9th house only.In phaladeepika,in the 1st chapter of mangalacharan ,mantraeswara quoted as follows-"Acharya,deva,pitrun shubh poorva bhagya".Means the same.

joyd.

[Lex]

Thanks Friends. I would appreciate if anyone provides the answer.

Naiisarik Bhava signification, Naisarik graha, Dharma signs, mool trikona signs, and when you learn from Jyotisham teacher or Guru, why 9th bhava is referred as father's house or Dharma house ( Sages devised slokas naisarik tattvas and considering normal zodiac mappings), and 10th bhava is Father's assets or internal assets, not to be confused with western astrology or Internet based surfing.

9th bhava signifies many dharma activities... includes learnings from Guru ( your father can be guru), 10 th is Karmastana... your work, karmas of pitrus, Punsyashetra visits, if 9th and 10th lords period operates etc. Shani is graha for Karmastana.... 10th bhava

[Khoo Hock Leong]

Yayathi

10th house is debts.....12th of the 11th.

But I think the sky here does not mean the sky which the sun travels across, shining its radiance on earth.

The sky should be the higher loks like krishna loka.

As noted by one eminent asttologer, the sky, earth and underworld is represented by the 4th. The sky is a place for the Sun and Moon, both of which do well in the 4th bhava, but 10th bhava Moon does not dowell. Venus also does well in the 4th. Venus governs the dew etc. that exists in the atmosphere, that covers the region between the sky and the earth.

The three tower cities fable in the scriptures typically represent the dky, the earth and the underworld should all be reprsented by one bhava which is the 4th.

Vishnu (Krishna) uses the bow (reincarnation of Shiva) and arrow (dharma) represented by the 3rd bhava which represent weapons of the deities (3rd is 7th to 9th but 3rd is specifically also 6th to 10th, Vishnu imbue the bow and arrow with his energy), to shatter the Three Tower City.

10th reprents the support given to the Three Tower City by the higher Gods (10th is 7th to the 4th, but 10th can also represent the 4th demise, being 7th to it).

Rgds
Mac Khoo Hock Leong

[tylorechandra]

Slokas in chapter 20 of BPHS pertaining to effects of the 9th house indicates the use of 9th house for father. In Chapter 11 he indicates the 10th for father. Thus the sage himself uses both the 9th and 10th for father.

TKC

[joyd]

v-rach/vaman-
Here i am briefing the reason behind 9th as fathers house based on natural zodiac.Taking sagittarius[9] as focus house,the 8th house from it cancer becomes the karaka or generating house.It is the cancer which represents grihasthashram or marriage.After marriage only any male can turns in to father.so 4th house is the karak house of father ,i.e the 9th.This same 4th house is nothing but mother.Any woman can become a mother after a dharmic marriage event.The same 4th is also sukha sthana.Either male or female get sukha from each other with a dharmic and legal marriage.so here the moon of cancer sign becomes the natural karaka for 9th house of father in natural zodiac and for other various functional ascendants[aries to pisces],the 4th lord becomes the functional karak for the 9th house matters.

joyd.

[Khoo Hock Leong]

Father guides your dharma (the 9th) and gives you the necessary push for your karma like his wealth signified by the 10th which is 2nd to the 9th.

[rathore]

Khoo, verify first if Vishnu shot the arrow or Shiv did. Then you can make whatever strange assumptions you like from it.

[Khoo Hock Leong]

Ok, it was Vishnu who gave Shiva the arrow, the arrow being dharma. Shiva reincarnated as the bow and with the arrow, destroyed the three tower city. 3rd is the 12th to the 4th.

[aftra07]

@v-rachen

A post from the past on this exact same topic.

See Shrikanth's post (3rd one from the top)

viewtopic.php?f=5&t=2763

[Vivek Surya]

नमः शिवाय,
Very very interesting topic!

As always I'm attracted to your reasoning! , even though I don't understand some of your posts, I feel your posts are little profound, I feel it that way, when I over think!
I'm happy to read your posts Joyd bhaiyya

Here i am briefing the reason behind 9th as fathers house based on natural zodiac. Taking Sagittarius[9] as focus house, the 8th house from it cancer becomes the karaka or generating house. It is the cancer which represents grihasthashram or marriage

What is generating house?, may I please know, how 8th house is becoming Kaaraka house. But why is Cancer becoming Grihastaashramam!, since marriage / legal bonding is actually represented by 7th house, right?!

After marriage only any male can turns in to father. So, 4th house is the karak house of father i.e., the 9th. This same 4th house is nothing but mother. Any woman can become a mother after a dharmic marriage event. The same 4th is also sukha sthana. Either male or female get sukha from each other with a dharmic and legal marriage. So here the moon of cancer sign becomes the natural karaka for 9th house of father in natural zodiac.

joyd.

By assuming the above 1st quote by you to be true, this 2nd quote is completely justified!

and for other various functional ascendants[Aries to Pisces], the 4th lord becomes the functional karak for the 9th house matters.

So, I just want to confirm, will Pisces (4th house) considered functional kaaraka for Leo (9th house) for Sagittarius Ascendant? because you've generalized by taking Sagittarius & Cancer as reference in the above 1st quote. So, the same way is Pisces & Leo interconnected with the above logic!?

[joyd]

vs-
There is ad deep relation between judging bhava house and its 8th house.What we call it as generating or signification or karaak house which gives the result.why the 8th house only taken as karak house ? and 6th house will be taken as judging house?say in our given natural zodiac example,9th is sagittarius which is a judging house.This house is like a fighter or hard worker,which fights for the required result.why it should be a fighter house? is again your question.It is the 6th house from its karak house cancer.you know the qualities and significations of the 6th house well.Fights-competitions-struggle-subordination-loans-enemies-self esteem-disease-etc.so we called it as fighter house.Now go to the 8th house from the judging house i.e from sagittarius.It is cancer which we are terming as generating house or karak house for the judging house the 9th.Why it is called as so? is your doubt again.Before you understand clearly the above theory,let me explain a basic thing in it first.

Take any ascendent.what is the karak house of lagna ? it is the 8th from it.what is the logic in it ?
lagna is birth and 8th is death and as well as birth too.How ? and why ?The entire rebirth-death and janan-marna cycle revolves around between 1 and 8.How and why ?Meditate on it and you will be surprised by the Almighties excellent and tremendous script of life.

In our astrology,the 8th represents sexual elements like physical sex organs and their internal elements like sperm and eggs or ova.According to modern medical science research every humans death starts in a phase wise trigger manner from the day they start their ejaculation in case of males and once the woman gets pregnant.It means that males and females die after the above two phenomenons,it means the tejus of them start to deteriorate from the starting of the above two phenomenons.For a visual clarity of this BBC produced a series of 7- documentaries on the name of "THE HUMAN BODY"so you can see them on You-tube.
Now you are clear about the dual role of 8th house as life giving[birth] through its sexual elements called the genetic materials and also life taking away[death] through the same elements.This is the back bone reason and secret behind our great personalities "BRAHMACHARYA" vrata and deeksha.Brahmacharya enhances one's longevity.

Now you have an spark in your mind why we are calling the 8th house as generating house or karak house.It has the capacity to give or not to give or delay the the judging house related results based on several hundreds of other parameters of the natives chart.If all factors are favourable to generating house,it will give quick result,not favourable no result,half favourable-delays,25% only favourable means long delays in giving its specified results or events. Fight and efforts are generated by the 8th in 6th and also such fight-efforts results are given or not given[birth-death]decided by it,in relation and cooperation of other factors.This is the reason why we called it as generative house or karak house.

Meditate on grihastha ashram and a question that you raised on your kundali in your post.

wish you happy learning..

joyd

[v-rachen]

Thanks everyone.