Vargas are NOT to be read as Rashi

[Nitin21]

So if aspects are based on longitudes they can only happen in real positions and not derived positions, its that simple.

Simple as that rathoreji. This should suffice actually.

[anuradha]

Proof of classical text speaks louder than anybody here. One can purchase the Mansagari of Chowkhambha Krishnadass Acedemy Varanasi page no 235[Dr Ramchandra Pandey] and Mansagri By Chowkhamba Vidhyabhawan page no 260[ Sh Madhukanta Jha] and verify .

[anuradha]

Proofs

[anuradha]

I don't have the rights to view the attachments but its safe to assume you are repeating yourself. So please don't post things which have already been discussed. Anyone who is passionate enough can go back to previous pages and see the discussion on these slokes themselves. Those who are followers for life, and therefore will most likely not want to apply their own brains, or just don't have enough brains, or just don't care about the topic or are living in ignorance will obviously wither away.

Previously you fudged few things[ Never given the name and publisher of the book and photograph of first page] and interpreted the shloka in your own way just to distort the fact.

[rathore]

Glad you were able to understand that PVR, KNR, BVR, SR, WHTEVR can be right AND wrong at the same time. So moving on ...

For page 235 in Ramchandra Mansagari, why are you quoting without even looking at the Slokes? Where does the Sloke say 5th house in Navamsa? Only the translation says it.
At the end it says 'Some teachers use Moon's navamsa to judge' and that's about it. Asked you earlier for getting it translated before quoting, so we are basically going in circles here.

So for anyone getting confused with these weak citations, it is just talking about results of 5th House and this is where the spirit of Brahma/child verse comes in i.e. apply your own brain, because:
1) The actual verse doesn't even talk about some 5th house in some navamsa 'chart'. So apply own brain to the Sanskrit sloke.

2) The book is listing 'generic' results of various vargas in this order of Hora, Drekkana, Saptamsha, Navamsa, Dwadasama. Then there is a sudden inclusion of the supposed '5th House in Navamsa' result talking about 'specific' and not 'generic results. This occurs between Navamsa and Dwadasama generic results. So apply own brain to the sudden deviation.

3) Mansagari says D12 is for wife, D7 for number of siblings, D3 for Karm phal as per Yavanacharayas. I guess that's OK with you because I doubt you even know the difference between classical texts and later day books. Remember there are many versions of Mansagari floating around (a glimpse of differences are given below). So apply own brain to the whole text.

You asked about photo and other details so here is the link to reference the book earlier (Sharma, Choithmal. 1884).
viewtopic.php?f=6&t=23115&start=75#p191681
And if you think I interpreted some sloke wrong, cite it here in a proper manner. Don't just say things in a hurry.

Your screenshots aren't visible but it doesn't matter. Here are some more to ponder upon from Mansagari versions. All from earlier posts (so you are wasting time going in circles):

In the below two Anapha yoga is compared between two versions of Mansagari.
Mansagari Ver1 http://tinypic.com/r/k3vw9k/8
Mansagari Ver2 http://tinypic.com/r/2w4he1t/8

[rathore]

In the below two Durudhra yoga is compared in the same two versions. Notice one version says Mars, the other says Venus.
Mansagari Ver1 http://tinypic.com/r/k3vw9k/8
Mansagari Ver2 http://tinypic.com/r/21cruib/8

In the below two Drekkana results are compared in the same two versions. Notice Mercury is missing from one.
Mansagari Ver1 http://tinypic.com/r/1zgzv4o/8
Mansagari Ver2 http://tinypic.com/r/2vtsb9g/8

[anuradha]

For page 235 in Ramchandra Mansagari, why are you quoting without even looking at the Slokes? Where does the Sloke say 5th house in Navamsa? Only the translation says it.
At the end it says 'Some teachers use Moon's navamsa to judge' and that's about it. Asked you earlier for getting it translated before quoting, so we are basically going in circles here.

So for anyone getting confused with these weak citations, it is just talking about results of 5th House and this is where the spirit of Brahma/child verse comes in i.e. apply your own brain, because:
1) The actual verse doesn't even talk about some 5th house in some navamsa 'chart'. So apply own brain to the Sanskrit sloke.

So Mr Ramchandra Pandey H.O.D B.H.U is wrong in translating the sholoka. You again distorted the clear cut proof.

Your screenshots aren't visible but it doesn't matter. Here are some more to ponder upon from Mansagari versions. All from earlier posts (so you are wasting time going in circles):

If the screen shots are not visible the how can you see page 235

The other translation of Sh Madhukant Jha is also given, which is saying the same thing.

You asked about photo and other details so here is the link to reference the book earlier (Sharma, Choithmal. 1884).
viewtopic.php?f=6&t=23115&start=75#p191681

No details of publisher and author....just fudging

3) Mansagari says D12 is for wife, D7 for number of siblings, D3 for Karm phal as per Yavanacharayas. I guess that's OK with you because I doubt you even know the difference between classical texts and later day books. Remember there are many versions of Mansagari floating around (a glimpse of differences are given below). So apply own brain to the whole text

I do not apply the brain to fudge the reality.

Better you buy both the translation and read it . I have given the page number. Distortion of fact will not serve any purpose. The owner of this site is also using the aspect in Navmansha.

[Lex]

Rathore,
I totally agree with you on Varga chart analysis and so also with CL.
The usual style, you might have noticed and also CL, when I had challenged, poster gets hyper and worked up and starts sending emojis etc rather than sheer debating with astrology knowledge
Alawys, there will be quotes from a Journal, I don't know what sort of journal instead of quoting original BPHS Sanskrit sloka, and you were aware, Hora debate post

[anuradha]

Rathore,
I totally agree with you on Varga chart analysis and so also with CL.
The usual style, you might have noticed and also CL, when I had challenged, poster gets hyper and worked up and starts sending emojis etc rather than sheer debating with astrology knowledge
Alawys, there will be quotes from a Journal, I don't know what sort of journal instead of quoting original BPHS Sanskrit sloka, and you were aware, Hora debate post
Top

Irrelevant to the topic. Just lobbying .

[rathore]

Site Admins, could you please enable BBCode for my userID. It doesn't allow me to quote properly:

Anuradha ji, points listed for the sake of readers who maybe misled by your child like enthusiasm and thought process, sorry if you feel bad:

[quote=anuradha] So Mr Ramchandra Pandey H.O.D B.H.U is wrong in translating the sholoka. You again distorted the clear cut proof.[/quote]

1. Yes Mr Ramchandra got it wrong. Apply your own brain to the Sanskrit sloke. Just try for once.

Also look at the next Sloke that talks about Ketu in 5th and Rahu in Kendra. Here the translation is correct, the Sloke itself is wrong because Rahu cannot be in a Kendra when Ketu is in 5th house. I guess Ramchandra didn't care to think about that either and put a note. Pretty sure neither did you.

[quote=anuradha] If the screen shots are not visible the how can you see page 235 [/quote]

2. Yes your screenshots are not visible, but maybe I own Mansagari as well (see #4 below)? Should have applied your brain, its pretty obvious.

[quote=anuradha] No details of publisher and author....just fudging [/quote]

3. The response clearly states that ... that's the info I have i.e. the photo of the first page posted earlier and this info -> Sharma, Choithmal, 1884. When the sloke screenshots were posted they were not coming out of thin air. Or were they? Should have applied some brain.

[quote=anuradha] I do not apply the brain to fudge the reality. [/quote]

4. Here is a screenshot of Ramchandra book Page 222 for your Shadvarga doubts. Should have applied some brain (and read your own book ) before saying that I am fudging around:

[IMG]http://i63.tinypic.com/98qz9y.png[/IMG]
Translation for non-Hindi readers: Yavanacharya says to judge body from Ascendant, wealth from Hora, result of own deeds from Drekkana, number of co-borns from Saptamsa, wife from Dwadasamsa, death from Trimsamsa and all effects from Navamsa.

Lex ji, I think you live in South India where traditional Astrology is preserved better than anywhere else. So you would have come across many a real Astrologer who are laughing on D chart concepts. Although even in South India this ignorance of using D 'charts' has spread very well.

Yes the poster seems to get hyper but to each his own.

[anuradha]

Anuradha ji, points listed for the sake of readers who maybe misled by your child like enthusiasm and thought process, sorry if you feel bad:

No comments on your irrelevant post which is full of personal comments . When somebody dare to say that the Prof. Ramchandra Pandey is wrong and Prof. Madhukant Jha is wrong then there is no point in discussing it futher

Publisher of the book you referred.... Place ,address .....who, writer of the book which Sharma....where is the proof. Where is the first page having both the things. I do not apply my brain to fudge the things to distort the facts

Yes the poster seems to get hyper but to each his own.

1. Yes Mr Ramchandra got it wrong. Apply your own brain to the Sanskrit sloke. Just try for once.

Another translation of the shaloka given, saying the same thing.

3. The response clearly states that ... that's the info I have i.e. the photo of the first page posted earlier and this info -> Sharma, Choithmal, 1884. When the sloke screenshots were posted they were not coming out of thin air. Or were they? Should have applied some brain.

[rathore]

Like I said, get the slokes translated for yourself instead of being a fanboy. It looks like you are not going to do that because even you can read the sloke yourself and know that it has no mention of some 5th house in some navamsa chart. Anyone with basic knowledge of Sanskrit can make that out.

Just for the record KN Rao is also wrong and so is PVR, basically anyone doing D chart disco.

Yes you shouldn't even try to discuss because you have lost credibility from points #2 and #4 in the last post. That was just public humiliation you caused to yourself.
Interestingly you just let go of both points (2 and 4) in your last post.

About publisher: Its an 1884 book. Shrivenkateshvar Steam Press (Khemraj Shrikrishnadass). By Sharma, Choithmal. Yes that Sharma, as stated before.
All this was stated earlier in this thread itself: viewtopic.php?f=6&t=23115&start=50#p186852
But its funny you are going in circles asking the same thing over and over. How old are you, 16?. Contact that press and find out for yourself.

[anuradha]

by rathore » 03 Sep 2017, 15:13

Like I said, get the slokes translated for yourself instead of being a fanboy. It looks like you are not going to do that because even you can read the sloke yourself and know that it has no mention of some 5th house in some navamsa chart. Anyone with basic knowledge of Sanskrit can make that out.

Distorted fact.

Just for the record KN Rao is also wrong and so is PVR, basically anyone doing D chart disco.

Ego

Yes you shouldn't even try to discuss because you have lost credibility from points #2 and #4 in the last post. That was just public humiliation you caused to yourself.
Interestingly you just let go of both points (2 and 4) in your last post.

Yes when people like K.N.R, P.V.R, Prof. Ramchandra Pandey , Prof Madhukant Jha has no credibility in your eyes then who am I?
No proof that book is published by whom

[rathore]

Distorted facts? Any reader with an average IQ can fact check for themselves. Meanwhile,you can keep running away from it.

Yes you are not going to contact the publisher. But thanks for the good laughs.

Again, PVR, KNR have credibility, it just doesn't mean they are 'right' on every thing they say. Try to grasp your head around this simple idea. I understand its hard for you but just try.

[anuradha]

Dr Ramchandra Pandey, retd. Head of Dept of Jyotisha in Benaras Hindu University or BHU.

http://vedicastrology.wikidot.com/credentials

Consensus about Suryasiddhanta to be the Basis for National Panchangas

A 2-day conference-cum-workshop was convened at Sampoornanand Sanskrit University of Varanasi on 17-18 Oct 2005 in which it was unanimously decided after long discussions that Suryasiddhanta and its updated Makaranda Table must be the sole basis for national level panchangas.
This conference was organised by various organisations and was convened by Dr Nagendra Pandey, currently Head of Dept of Jyotisha in Sampoornanand Sanskrit University of Varanasi. Over 200 famous astrologers and academics from six Hindi speaking states participated.

Senior astrologers at this conference were :

Dr Nagendra Pandey, currently Head of Dept of Jyotisha in Sampoornanand Sanskrit University of Varanasi.

Dr Shukadeva Chaturvedi, retd. Head of Dept of Jyotisha in LBS Kendriya Sanskrit Vidyapeeth ,Deemed University, New Delhi.

Dr Ramchandra Pandey, retd. Head of Dept of Jyotisha in Benaras Hindu University or BHU.

Dr Radhakant Mishra, presently Head of Dept and Head of Faculty of Jyotisha in KSD Sanskrit University

Dr Chandrama Pandey, Head of Dept of Jyotisha of BHU (Banaras Hindu University)

Pt Hiralal Mishra of BHU, who is the seniormost panchanga maker of Varanasi.

Dr Satyendra Mishra , editor of Vishva Pancjanga of BHU.

Dr Chandramauli Upadhyaya, now Reader (later HOD) in Dept of Jyotisha of BHU (Banaras Hindu University), and sole Trustee of Kashi Vishvanath Mandir at that time.

Dr Arun Kr Pandey , editor of panchanga published by Sampoornanand Sanskrit University.

Pt Shrikant Tiwari,Pt Ajay Mishra, both panchanga makers of Varanasi.

Dr Gita Sharma, Murari Vajapeyi , both panchanga makers of Chattisgarh.

There were nearly 200 important astrologers and scholares all of whom cannot be named here. It was an epoch conference, which resulted in publication of Suryasiddhantic panchangas from Orissa, Chattisgarh, UP, Bihar, etc., as well as in rectification of old panchangas on Suryasiddhantic principles.

Suryasidhhantic panchanga making software was demonstrated at the workshop there by me. As a result of this conference, many new Suryasidhhantic panchangas were started from various states of India on the basis of this software.
This conference decided that all existing panchangas should be reformed on the basis of Suryasiddhanta, although only one university has decided to do so after this conference. There were many proponents of modern astronomy in this conference, but in the end they agreed that for astrological purposes Suryasiddhanta was the best choice.

https://jyotishsagar.net/product/maansagri-maansagri/
https://jyotishsagar.net/product/sachitra-mansagari/

[Lex]

Rathore

There is no point in debating with an ignorant, who climbs to be dranked entire concepts of varga charts.
I had exposed in totality the poster, who always quotes a journal, that journal is not Gospel truth, And this way varga charts analysis was cascaded down from Journal to reader, whereas Our sages have clearly indicated rasi charts cannot be replaced, however varga charts has to be delineated as a part of micro.

Now from Varga chart moved to Suryasiddhanta, and from Suryasiddhanta to Panchangam or Almanac
We all know Vakya Panchang is based upon Surya siddhanta, and Drig calculations is inbuilt in softwares of astrology calculations, which JHora etc uses.

Poster is confused , now all over the place trying to defend the journal of wrongly educating students in aspects in Varga Charts. Now is coming Panchang and now after that Poster goes to Mundane items

Have you ever seen poster used anywhere Varga charts concepts in this very forum to querists?

[anuradha]

Funny not relevant . The owner of this site uses the aspect in navmansha and subscribe to journalofastrology.com.

http://www.lightonvedicastrology.com/ve ... -astrology

[anuradha]

Re: Vargas are NOT to be read as Rashi
Report this post Quote
Post by rathore » 03 Sep 2017, 15:57

Distorted facts? Any reader with an average IQ can fact check for themselves. Meanwhile,you can keep running away from it.

Yes you are not going to contact the publisher. But thanks for the good laughs.

Again, PVR, KNR have credibility, it just doesn't mean they are 'right' on every thing they say. Try to grasp your head around this simple idea. I understand its hard for you but just try

Yes I can understand your method. Just do not accept the clear cut references . If you have opened the book Navmanha phalam has started from page no 233, and I have given the reference of page 235[ Dr Pandey]. I can only contact the publisher if such book exists in reality

[anuradha]

1. Yes Mr Ramchandra got it wrong. Apply your own brain to the Sanskrit sloke. Just try for once.

Just for the record KN Rao is also wrong and so is PVR, basically anyone doing D chart disco.

Mutually exclusive

Again, PVR, KNR have credibility, it just doesn't mean they are 'right' on every thing they say

[rathore]

Anuradha ji,

Credentials don't matter, wrong is wrong. You should know this by now. Even Trump is from Wharton and Kejriwal from IIT.
Besides I have dealt with BHU and BVB (that's just a joke anyway) Astrology people. Many of them can be summed up under one word - Clowns.

[rathore]

You can still contact the publisher and find out that the book doesn't exist and post the proof here. But will you? Obviously you are afraid to do so and making a mockery out of yourself for the LOVA public.

Yes you gave reference to page 235 and that's the exact page (5th house results) I talked about for you to get translated. What is so hard to understand about that? Why are you talking about page 233 now when we were talking about Page 235 to begin with?

With your 'mutually exclusive' comment. Just wow! Dude what is your IQ? Why is it so hard to understand that BVR endorsing Raman Ayanamsa is wrong and BVR using Yogas in D1 is right. Both at the SAME TIME.

[anuradha]

rathore
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Re: Vargas are NOT to be read as Rashi
Quote
Post by rathore » Sun Sep 03, 2017 4:38 am

Anuradha ji,

Credentials don't matter, wrong is wrong. You should know this by now. Even Trump is from Wharton and Kejriwal from IIT.
Besides I have dealt with BHU and BVB (that's just a joke anyway) Astrology people. Many of them can be summed up under one word - Clowns.
Last edited by ChandraLagna on Sun Sep 03, 2017 6:07 am, edited 1 time in total.
Reason: Deleted personalized comments not germane to the discussion at hand.

Mr Rathore , I know your views. Due to which you are unable to see the clear cut reference of two different translations. Why you are not discussing this issue with the owner of site who himself uses the aspect in Navmansha ? Yes you made the clear cut references a joke with your distorted commentary . Because the scholars like Sh Ramchandra Pandey and Sh Madhukant Jha do not know Sanskrit. Funny.

[anuradha]

Mr Moderator, Please ask this from the owner of the site and share his response. I expect a moderator to be neutral . See the clear references shared by me .

[tylorechandra]

The debate regarding aspects in the varga charts have been long and yet each side sticks to its own point. Agreed that the original texts on Astrology do not mention aspects in varga charts specifically and have given other uses of varga charts. Agreed also that later on SOME astrologers started using aspects in varga charts.

Now coming to my query—There is no dispute that each sign of the navamsa chart contains 9 amsas of 3deg 20min each totalling again to 30 degrees. All these 9 amsas occupy the same rasi of the main rasi chart owned by the same owner. Why is it then that the rasi in the navamsa chart is always thought of as “consisting of 30 degrees of amsas of discontinuous angle ranges” instead of thinking it as “amsas occupying dicontinuous angle ranges in the main chart occupy the same continuous 30 degree rasi” as the main rasi chart ?

Once the peception of Navamsa is changed, aspects of amsas of planets instead of the planets themselves become valid. Colloquially, it is possible that the amsas of planets are simply written or stated as planets themselves due to wrong technicality or insufficient understanding. Also, such a perception and consequent use of aspects of amsas are not to be written off just because the original texts do not indicate the use of aspects in varga charts explicitly.

Of course, the same perception holds for mast varga charts.

TKC

[anuradha]

Pl see the references [ Photograph of Mansagari] , I have given above.