Sagittarius and Pisces : God's Seat

[Khoo Hock Leong]

Hi Learned Members

Let's talk about the Sagittarius and Pisces ascendants in this post and how the other signs' psoitions relative to these signs engender good karma for these Ascendants. Note that placements of planets in the chart would change entirely the good karma conferred to these Ascendants.

Sagittarius Ascendant has the following as functional malefics (Jupiter is functionally neutral as God is to himself) : Venus, Mercury, Saturn and Ketu. (Rahu is functionally benefic because it is ruling its Moolatrikona sign Leo on the 9th house and its other sign which it rules is on the 10th).

(1) Sagittarius is undeterred by Libra placed 11th to it because Saturn, Jupiter's best friend, is exalted there. As for Taurus, the explanation is rather interesting. If you read my post on the Path of the Demons, Sagittarius is a sign where it seeking for higher pastures. So no real expansion takes place in the sense materially (1st to 6th means the person expands his energies to order the place which he settles in and thereby gets material gains). Sagittarius Ascendant is more concerned with its 5th and 9th house trines ie. the future - the only Ascendant which has this peculiarity. If you realize this is Jupiter's Moolatrikona sign, then everything falls in place.

(2) Mercury is a student of Jupiter the teacher so no worries here. Remember, Mercury is Vishnu, but Jupiter is the original form of Vishnu.

(3) Saturn and Jupiter are best friends.

(4) Ketu and Jupiter are friends too.

To be continued.............

[Khoo Hock Leong]

We now come to the Pisces Ascendant :

The functional malefics here are Saturn, Mercury, Venus, Sun and again Jupiter is functionally neutral. Ketu is functionally neutral I would say beause its non-Moolatrikona sign of Pisces is on a kendra. Ketu is a natural malefic so this placement does not lead to Ketu being a functionally malefic. Rahu is a functionally malefic also for a Pisces Ascendant.

(1) Sun, Saturn and Ketu are Jupiter's friends.

(2) Rahu is netural to Jupiter although Jupiter detests Rahu. Now Rahu rules Leo with Sun and Sun is Jupiter's friend, so no worries from Leo overlaying the 5th house. As for Virgo, the other sign which Rahu rules. Although Rahu is netural to Jupiter, Mercury is Jupiter's enemy. How to explain away Virgo's malefic influence on the Pisces Ascendant? The thing is Mercury is exalted in Virgo. When Buddha meditates and achieves enlightenment, he realizes he is part of Jupiter's godhead. Mercury's enmity to Jupiter changed to being netural.

(3) Saturn's maleific influence is countered by Mars, a functional benefic and Jupiter's friend.

(4) Taurus ruler Venus is exalted in Pisces and so is Libra, another sign ruled by Venus. Jupiter holds Venus to ransom for a Pisces Ascendant. He is ruling a sign which Venus craves.

(5) Gemini ruled by Mercury is enemy to Jupiter. (Rahu which is exalted in Gemini is only neutral to Jupiter). Because of Virgo's partiality to Pisces and Virgo being Mercury's Moolatrikona sign and is found on the 7th being 4th of the 4th and therefore more power, Gemini's malefic influence is very much watered down. Also Mercury is the student and Jupiter the teacher, so in another sense, no worries here either.

Best Regards
Hock Leong

[Khoo Hock Leong]

Oh, I forgot to mention that Moon is enemy to Jupiter (although Jupiter is a friend to Moon plus Jupiter likes to be Cancer) and for a Sagittarius Ascendant, Moon is a functionally malefic ruling the 8th Bhava.

In this case Cancer expands to Sagittarius (this sign is 6th to Cancer) and Moon is movement and Sagittarius likes movement. I would say, Jupiter takes the Moon's functional maleficity in its stride with a Sagittarius Ascendant.

Best Regards
Hock Leong

[elipsis]

Moon, Mercury and Saturn are neutral for Sagittarius (as per bphs).

[Khoo Hock Leong]

Yes, I know that. That is already covered under the part on functional rulership : functional benefics, functional malefics and functionally neutral. My post has taken care of that.

After establishing the functional malefics using the BPHS rule, I then look under :

(1) Nadi's brand of friendship. Example : like Moon is enemy to Jupiter even though Jupiter is friendly to Moon, and then see how the Sagittarius Ascendant counters this.

(2) Any other factors that can help counter any maleficity like Mars exaltation in Capricorn and strong in Aquarius can counter the direct 7th sign to a Cancer and Leo Ascendant respectively.

Another example of a special factor would be in a Bhavat Chalit chart, when two enemies say Mercury in Taurus and Mars in Aires are together but in different ADJACENT signs rather than SAME signs, the enmity between them is reduced because their dispositor which is Venus and Mars respectively (Mars in own sign) are best friends based on Nadi.

You know things like that, adding to a richer analysis. So I am not disputing BPHS.

Readers, I hope you catch my drift.

Best Regards
Hock Leong

[Khoo Hock Leong]

As for Saturn being neutral to Jupiter, the thing is BPHS went on to say that Saturn does well in Jupiter's signs. So Saturn and Jupiter are best of friends. It corroborates Nadi.

For a Sagittarius Ascendant, Saturn is a functional malefic. But using Nadi's brand of friendship (or BPHS if you read deeper), this defect is overcomed.

[Khoo Hock Leong]

As per Nadi Mercury is enemy to Jupiter but Jupiter is friendly to Mercury. You say Mercury is neutral to Jupiter in BPHS.

It does not really matter but I tend to go for Nadi because they stick closely to the Puranas. Again, I take it that Mercury signs are functionally malefic for a Sagittarius Ascendant.

Then I go on to the special factors where Mercury becomes exalted in Virgo becoming like Jupiter. Sagittarius Ascendant can overcome Gemini through the dictum that the teacher is more powerful than the student. These are the special factors. Mercury is Vishnu but Jupiter is the Godhead all rolled into one of the the Three Trinities. Hence Jupiter would have no trouble from Mercury whether from Virgo or Gemini influence.

Best Regards
Hock Leong

[Khoo Hock Leong]

I have just checked to double confirm.

Mercury is enemy to Jupiter even in BPHS just like Nadi. Nadi credits Jupiter as being friendly to Mercury but BPHS considers Jupiter as neutral to Mercury.

But like I said I have already taken care of these nitty gritty details under the ?Functional Rulership banner.

Best Regards
Hock Leong

[elipsis]

Functional rulerships are applicable only for ascendants - that is by using parashari principles, it cannot be applied for nadi.

In Nadi astrology there are neither friends nor enemies but there are only combinations which is good for certain aspects of life, these planets are working only for mutual benefits nothing more - like Saturn and Mars will give good career in tech industry but with growth obstacles...so no combination is 100% perfect or friendly. Saturn-Jupiter is good for lifelong career but its bad for family life. Jupiter-Mercury is good for education but its bad for elders as it kills people...so if you have access to all of the nadi material (not the online ones) you'll come to understand the real depth of the puranas. The original nadi leaves doesn't place importance to ascendants but only combinations of planets and ethereal vibrations of letters and its importance in life.

[chavitarun]

Moon, Mercury and Saturn are neutral for Sagittarius (as per bphs).

respected sir

what type of results these planets will give in their Mahadasha & anterdasha ,based on their lordship of one or two house.
Or being neutral they will not give result of their lordships.
pl. elaborate.
regards

[elipsis]

Applying bphs- they will give results as per their conjunction, aspect and placement, neutral planets do not behave as per their natural functionality but behaves as per the influences of other factors. But in Nadi and other systems the results are different. For example: Jupiter is neutral for Sagittarius ascendant but it will behave as malefic when its in the 6th house or with Venus etc.

[Khoo Hock Leong]

Elipsis

I got the IDEA from a Nadi Astrologer of mixing houses of Parasara with Nadi from a Hyderabad Nadi Astrologer who set up a training school in Hyderabad. He is a disciple of Rao (the Nadi Astrologer, not the other Raos) and he has written about 6-7 books on Nadi. His name is Santaya Nak (spelling may be a bit wrong) There are in fact many flavours of Nadi including Meena Nadi etc. but he has mixed houses with the Bhrigu Nandi Nadi in one of his last books and it works. He is a great astrologer and is the head of the training institute spearheading Nadi Astrology in Hyderabad. I have added some ideas of my own like Bhavat Chalit and the insights I get which I imbue in the recent posts.

As for saying functional rulers only applies for Ascendants, yes I know that. It follows automatically what I said in the 1st paragraph above.

(By the way the Nadi Astrologer Rao who was born in the 30s is the one that translate straight from traditional texts and do not make use of houses. He is the old generation.)

To say you cannot mix Parasara houses with Nadi combination of planets is not correct and not because Santaya Nak says so, although he is a great astrologer. Planets are planets and houses are houses, and we can read combination of planets, and have functional rulerships too. For example someone with Venus+Rahu and placed in good signs is supposed to be rich, but if Venus is the Yogakaraka in the chart and found in the Ascendant, then it becomes very good. It is logical......but of course Santaya Nak goes further than that by combining not only Nadi with Parasara but also OTHER ASTROLOGERS from the Classical Era. And of course I brought in Bhavat Chalit which is from Parasara (this version anyway) and my own insights which I feel strongly to be correct.

As what Santaya Nak said, Nadi Astrology is good for those who have an intuitive understanding of what the planets are trying to say to us. Parasara Astrology follows strict rules and are also correct but placing too much of Parasara Astrology is like placing the cart before the horse.

What is more surprising for me is that you seem to quote a lot of gritty details which sometimes are off the mark like Mercury's enmity to Jupiter is acknowledged by BPHS and B V Rahman and yet you said Mercury is neutral to Jupiter according to BPHS. Or about not emphasising the point that Saturn needs planets around it in order to progress which is also acknowledged by the old Nadi texts, but instead you gloss over it.

You are astroboy aren't you?

Best Regards
Hock Leong

[elipsis]

No, I am not astroboy - he is retired and has his own forum now. If you want to get nadi analysis there is a small village in India called Vaitheswaran Koil where the leaves originated, the astrologers just read out your leaf by taking your thumb print - even RG Rao (who lives near my house) was unable to get hold of this thumb reading blueprint and has written a book on how they exactly do that by intelligent guesswork...its a very sophisticated work nonetheless. So the Nadi combinations actually originated from these leaves, they cannot be taken out of context and read it as per your convenience because its grossly incomplete. Many researchers in India have done a great job in applying the nadi techniques for practical astrology and there is nothing wrong with that...Brighu Saral Padatti and Naik's work on celestial matrix is one such example but to club every little rule of astrology just for the sake of it is absurd. In the first place, the nadi sages never believed in accuracy of degrees or the bhava cusps - they got the knowledge through meditation and that's what they wrote it down.....its just interpretations based on the arrangement of planets and like you rightly said requires intuition. If you want to keep the spirit of nadi you'd do well not to apply geometric rules or ayanamsas or whatever...if you do that the more accurate you are the farther you get from the truth.

Anyway, I'll copy/paste the parashari rules again...just to avoid further confusion

1. The lord of the 1st is benefic for the 1st 6 Lagnas except Taurus (malefic) and Gemini (Neutral). For the 2nd half of the zodiac it is neutral, except for Aquarius (Benefic).

2. The 3rd lord is always malefic, except for Saturn for Sagittarius Lagna it is neutral.

3. The 5th lord is always benefic, except for Saturn for Virgo it is neutral.

4. The 7th lord is always malefic, except for when the 7th lord rules a higher house and is not a great natural benefic, then it is neutral. (This exception occurs for Taurus, Cancer and Sagittarius Lagnas).

5. The 9th lord is always benefic, except for Saturn for Gemini Lagna it is neutral.

6. The ruler of the 11th house is always malefic

7. The rulership of the Sun and Moon over even houses is generally neutral, with the exception of a) Sun is benefic when it rules the 4th, b) Sun and Moon are malefic when they rule the 6th, c) The Moon is malefic when it rules the 10th.

Regards

[Khoo Hock Leong]

(2), (4) and (7) with the exceptions for neutrality but otherwise generally malefic does not invalidate my analysis using Nadi and Bhava Cusps as proposed by Naik. As I mentioned earlier, whether functionally neutral or functionally malefic, I just take it as not functionally benefic if readers read my posts.

On another separate issue but in some ways similar, Nadi friendship of planets do not acknowledge neutrality, pklanets are either friends or enemies and hence in some ways tie to the way how Bhavas can be incorporated in Nadi ie. just separate into two groups : functionally benefic and functionally non-benefic (which can include bothe functionally neutral and functionally malefic).

Readers, you can try the combination of Bhava cusps and Nadi combination of planets to see whether it work. Naik has been using this method for some years now and his students have huge success. I have success too using it as a Hora Chart. I have revealed it in this forum so that more people can benefit from it.

On a separate issue I have separate posts on analyzing top billionaires using the simple Nadi technique with no Bhava ordering (but of course the planets are still compartmentalize) just like the Nadi leaves (that's how the Nadi leaves give the result by the way, no magic about it, although Guru propitiation is important for doing whatever branches of Astrology). I took their birthtimes to be 12 pm. You do not even need to know the place of birth.....but having the place of birth (with latitude and longtitude) would of course make it more accurate - in that sense that you can predict more things of the person's life.

Best Regards
Hock Leong

[prakhs123]

elipsis ji this means for libra lagna, jup (3rd lord), mars (7th lord), sun (11th lord) and moon (10th lord) are malefic
I went through mercury antra dasha which was worst and it is supposed to be benefic What can I expect in saturn, the name itself fears everyone out.. then we have lastly Venus which is neutral.. why so unfair for libra lagna people?

[quote="elipsis"]No, I am not astroboy - he is retired and has his own forum now. If you want to get nadi analysis there is a small village in India called [i]Vaitheswaran Koil[/i] where the leaves originated, the astrologers just read out your leaf by taking your thumb print - even RG Rao (who lives near my house) was unable to get hold of this thumb reading blueprint and has written a book on how they exactly do that by intelligent guesswork...its a very sophisticated work nonetheless. So the Nadi combinations actually originated from these leaves, they cannot be taken out of context and read it as per your convenience because its grossly incomplete. Many researchers in India have done a great job in applying the nadi techniques for practical astrology and there is nothing wrong with that...Brighu Saral Padatti and Naik's work on celestial matrix is one such example but to club every little rule of astrology just for the sake of it is absurd. In the first place, the nadi sages never believed in accuracy of degrees or the bhava cusps - they got the knowledge through meditation and that's what they wrote it down.....its just interpretations based on the arrangement of planets and like you rightly said requires intuition. If you want to keep the spirit of nadi you'd do well not to apply geometric rules or ayanamsas or whatever...if you do that the more accurate you are the farther you get from the truth.

Anyway, I'll copy/paste the parashari rules again...just to avoid further confusion

1. The lord of the 1st is benefic for the 1st 6 Lagnas except Taurus (malefic) and Gemini (Neutral). For the 2nd half of the zodiac it is neutral, except for Aquarius (Benefic).

2. The 3rd lord is always malefic, except for Saturn for Sagittarius Lagna it is neutral.

3. The 5th lord is always benefic, except for Saturn for Virgo it is neutral.

4. The 7th lord is always malefic, except for when the 7th lord rules a higher house and is not a great natural benefic, then it is neutral. (This exception occurs for Taurus, Cancer and Sagittarius Lagnas).

5. The 9th lord is always benefic, except for Saturn for Gemini Lagna it is neutral.

6. The ruler of the 11th house is always malefic

7. The rulership of the Sun and Moon over even houses is generally neutral, with the exception of a) Sun is benefic when it rules the 4th, b) Sun and Moon are malefic when they rule the 6th, c) The Moon is malefic when it rules the 10th.

Regards[/quote]

[satishdesh]

Namaste elipsis

No, I am not astroboy - he is retired and has his own forum now



so if you have access to all of the nadi material (not the online ones) you'll come to understand the real depth of the puranas.

Is it possible to have access to original nadi texts ? I asked at adyar / GOML libraries chennai; for nadi texts. But it seems too difficult to have them as this will require long physical stay in chennai which is not possible to me. Any other way out ?

Regards
satish

[elipsis]

I don't know any other- if you really want to do this there will be a lot of running around and bribing people - you could try asking people in Vaitheswaran Koil, my teacher had access to originals so he used to teach me from those..but he is too old and doesn't intend to teach. He gave away his notebooks to some organization in US.

Edit: someone deleted the astroboy's url, I guess its against the rules...so you could try searching online for it.

[Khoo Hock Leong]

There is yet ANOTHER WAY to delve deeper into a richer analysis of the chart after dispsensing with the functional beneficence/maleficence of Parasara concept and the Nadi brand of concepts (the various factors which I wrote of my recent posts on the various Signs/Ascendants).

This concept is ialso realted to Nadi Astrology and is the Best Friend concept.

I have already written in an ealier post the meaning of Best Friend and what is the Best Friend of each plane is. But to sum it all up, let me give you a general ranking on determining the goodness of a planet in a chart.

In order of decreasing goodness (meaning the best is (1)). They are nto mutually exclusive :

(1) Functionally Benefic as in what is tabulated by elipsis

(2) The planet is Best Friend to a functionally benefic. For example in a Cancer Ascendant, although Sun is functionally neutral ruling the 2nd house, but because it is ruling Leo which comes after the Moolatrikona Sign of the Moon which is Cancer and Sun is best friend to Moon, thus Sun can be considered to be close to being a functional benefic.

This is the concept introduced for this current post.

(3) Various concepts introducted by Jyotish Classical or Nadi.

An example of a miscellaneous concept introduced by Jyotish Classical is the concept of Venus being a digbala planet for a Cancer Ascendant as previously discussed. Venus functional maleficence turns to being kingly and hence there is some functional beneficence to it.

An example of a miscellaneous concept introduced by Nadi is the concept of Mars being exalted in Capricorn and Mars strong in Aquarius (previously analysed after quoting the concept) and hence Saturn although functionally neutral for a Cancer Ascendant, it also stands for "being under appropriate conctrol" for a Cancer Ascendant, and Cancer Ascendant can elicit cooperation from Saturn and not just let Saturn as a neutral bystander.

Best Regards
Hock Leong

[Khoo Hock Leong]

With the introduction of the Best Friend concept, which ranks 2nd in importance in the assessment of goodness in the table given above (only 3 entries), we can now see only Mercury seems to be quite difficult for a Cancer Ascendant to handle. Saturn is best friend to functionally benefic Jupiter, Venus is best friend to functionally benefic Mars (although Venus can swing either way too, because Venus is best friend to functionally malefic Mercury which is the most difficult to handle).

Yet if we bring in the 3rd factor above (the miscellaneous ways of looking at a planet by Jyotish Classical and Nadi), even Mercury can be absolved, because Mercury and Moon are friends (both ways in fact according to Nadi).

The 3rd factor (besides the 2nd factor) also has an impact on Venus and Saturn as previously discussed, downplaying their functional maleficence EVEN FURTHER, and even imparting goodness in them.

So this is how you do a deeper and richer analysis for the various Ascendants.

Best Regards
Hock Leong

[Khoo Hock Leong]

So far when we talk about (1), (2) and (3) above, we have not consider the positions of the planets in the chart. Remember, when I first started this series of posts, I said that we would not do that.

However, now we can bring in the positions of the planets in the chart. When we consider the signs layout only, it shows the inherent past karma which the person has in herited in this current lifetime. Something like a framework.

When planets are brought into the picture, then things become more complicated.

(A) Through the interaction of the planets with the signs, like the factor of dispositorship, it shows the ADDITIONAL inherent past karma which the person has inherited in this current lifetime. Thus there may be many Cancer Ascendants, but they have different afflictions or beneficence, and to a different degree.

(B) Through the interaction of the planets amonst themselves, like the factor of aspects, it shows the CURRENT karma which the person can build up for himself in this current lifetime.

(A) has been extensively discussed in this forum from various sources so we would not delve into that.

Let's consider ASPECTS.

A planet which is functionally benefic (as we know it) or functionally good (after considering additional factor (2) and (3) in the pevious post) remains so, notwithstanding they receive many aspects from good planets or many aspects from bad planets.

So, for example, Mercury for a Cancer Ascendant, although not a functionally benefic, is still functionally good, but the least of all the planets, notwithstanding it may be receiving ALL aspects from the other planets in the chart for the Cancer Ascendant (the factor of conjunction is considered as an aspect for the idea I am discussing here although some classics desegregate them).

So how can we interpret aspects?

Aspects to a planet show how the planet can make use of other planets (good or bad) to shore up its strength or its strength gets downsize respectively. It is just like we need the strength of others to get us going in any setting. If the planet is a singleton and other than dispostorship, it does not receive aspects or give aspect to any other planet), then it stands alone in goodness (or badness) through the factors (1), (2) and (3) discussed in the previous post (of course there are other factors like Ashtakavarga which is outside the ambit of this post - we are considering the basics here, signs and planets).

So aspects just give strength. It does not change the goodness or badness of a planet itself.

So in that sense, Cancer, Leo, Sagittarius and Pisces Ascendants, are inherently good people. They represent kingship and God.

Best Regards
Hock Leong

[satishdesh]

Namaste elipses

Thanks for quick reply.

BUT * He gave away his notebooks to some organization in US.*
This is very sad. It's unfortunate that Your teacher didn't gave you another xerox copy to you.A treasure handed over to some body else.
Late c s patel also had to hand over [to third party] his treasure manuscripts due to compulsion arising out of situations.
There seems to be same story with nadi manuscripts every where.
Unfortunate.

Regards
satish