Dear Members,
Below is an attempt to correct a misleading translation:
This has been translated in BPHS versions as:
-If the 7th house is occupied, or owned by Saturn or Mars, the native will beget a harlot, as his spouse, or he will be attached to others illegally.
All other factors being equal, the above translation applies to 33% - 50% of the population at any time, because Saturn and Mars own 4 signs, which doesn't seem right.
As per my meager knowledge " च " means "AND/moreover" but the translator seems to have used "OR" along the whole translation.
I invite members to take a look. If you are learned in Sanskrit then all the better.
Rathore
Wrong translation - BPHS
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exalted mars!.
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u r correct rathoreji..
The meaning must be combo of mars and saturn in 7..,not or...thanks for sharing..
Regards
EM!
The meaning must be combo of mars and saturn in 7..,not or...thanks for sharing..
Regards
EM!
!! samaya kevalum balayasi !!,
OM NAMO NARAYANAYA...(~_~)~~~~
OM NAMO NARAYANAYA...(~_~)~~~~
Thanks for the response EM!
To All Readers,
Here is a translation from a Sanskrit enthusiast who has translated many Astrological texts:
If Saturn (or Mars) is in the 7th house and is also the lord of the 7th house then the wife of such a native is unchaste or is a prostitute for sure.
This makes much more sense since now it doesn't apply to a large chunk of population. But Astrologically speaking it doesn't seem right because if they own 7th AND are in 7th then they are either in own house or are Yogakarakas for that Ascendant (Taurus, Libra, Cancer and Leo).
So the sloka or its current translation starts to seem defunct..
But then seen from another point of view it starts to make some sense:
Taurus Ascendant & Mars in 7th: Natural malefic & dushtana lord in 7th.
Taurus Ascendant & Saturn in 7th: Natural malefic in Enemy sign of another natural malefic.
Libra Ascendant & Mars in 7th: 2nd lord in 7th is said to give loose morals to both husband and wife. In this case it is also a natural malefic.
Libra Ascendant & Saturn in 7th: Natural malefic in Enemy sign of another natural malefic. Although debilitated in this case.
Cancer Ascendant & Mars in 7th: Natural malefic in sign of another natural malefic. Although exalted in this case.
Cancer Ascendant & Saturn in 7th: Natural malefic & dushtana lord in 7th.
Leo Ascendant & Mars in 7th: Natural malefic in sign of another natural malefic.
Leo Ascendant & Saturn in 7th: Natural malefic & dushtana lord in 7th.
Obviously other factors are to be seen to tell the result but this thread is specific to this sloka only.
Do we have Sanskrit learned members on LOVA? Or someone owning a few versions of BPHS?
Rathore
To All Readers,
Here is a translation from a Sanskrit enthusiast who has translated many Astrological texts:
If Saturn (or Mars) is in the 7th house and is also the lord of the 7th house then the wife of such a native is unchaste or is a prostitute for sure.
This makes much more sense since now it doesn't apply to a large chunk of population. But Astrologically speaking it doesn't seem right because if they own 7th AND are in 7th then they are either in own house or are Yogakarakas for that Ascendant (Taurus, Libra, Cancer and Leo).
So the sloka or its current translation starts to seem defunct..
But then seen from another point of view it starts to make some sense:
Taurus Ascendant & Mars in 7th: Natural malefic & dushtana lord in 7th.
Taurus Ascendant & Saturn in 7th: Natural malefic in Enemy sign of another natural malefic.
Libra Ascendant & Mars in 7th: 2nd lord in 7th is said to give loose morals to both husband and wife. In this case it is also a natural malefic.
Libra Ascendant & Saturn in 7th: Natural malefic in Enemy sign of another natural malefic. Although debilitated in this case.
Cancer Ascendant & Mars in 7th: Natural malefic in sign of another natural malefic. Although exalted in this case.
Cancer Ascendant & Saturn in 7th: Natural malefic & dushtana lord in 7th.
Leo Ascendant & Mars in 7th: Natural malefic in sign of another natural malefic.
Leo Ascendant & Saturn in 7th: Natural malefic & dushtana lord in 7th.
Obviously other factors are to be seen to tell the result but this thread is specific to this sloka only.
Do we have Sanskrit learned members on LOVA? Or someone owning a few versions of BPHS?
Rathore
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exalted mars!.
- Frequent Contributor
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- Joined: 13 Jul 2013
- Location: baroda,gujarat,india
rathoreji...
The case of cancer ascendent and mars in 7th is considered good according to phaldeepika..the say if 7th house of cancer ascendent have mars and saturn is considered good...
Here is a case of saturn in 7th house ...
1/male
D.o.b-20/06/1992
Time-9.20am
P.o.b- baroda...
Longi-73.12E
Lati-22.18N...
2/male
D.o.b-22/08/1992
Time-4.00am
P.o.b-ujjain
Longi-75.46E
Lati-23.10N
Sir what's your views on the charts? And marriage life??..
The 1st case native is in u.s currently...
Waiting for your post..
EM!..
And yes both have saturn(retro)in 7th house...
The case of cancer ascendent and mars in 7th is considered good according to phaldeepika..the say if 7th house of cancer ascendent have mars and saturn is considered good...
Here is a case of saturn in 7th house ...
1/male
D.o.b-20/06/1992
Time-9.20am
P.o.b- baroda...
Longi-73.12E
Lati-22.18N...
2/male
D.o.b-22/08/1992
Time-4.00am
P.o.b-ujjain
Longi-75.46E
Lati-23.10N
Sir what's your views on the charts? And marriage life??..
The 1st case native is in u.s currently...
Waiting for your post..
EM!..
And yes both have saturn(retro)in 7th house...
!! samaya kevalum balayasi !!,
OM NAMO NARAYANAYA...(~_~)~~~~
OM NAMO NARAYANAYA...(~_~)~~~~
Krishna ji,
I am yet to conclude is this sloka translation is correct or not so the thread is open. Yes the sloka needs to be applied after due diligence of other factors but this thread is just concentrating on this sloka (all other factors being equal). If you have a Sanskrit back ground or another BPHS translation from which you can quote the sloka, it would be very helpful.
There is another Yoga: if Mars and Saturn are in 7th house Cancer (there is a Capricorn version also somewhere), the person gets a chaste, devoted spouse. So Mars Saturn combining in 7th house is not always bad, which is why it becomes more important to decipher the sloka in question.
Lord Rama also had Moon/Jupiter aspecting the 7th. Please keep in mind this thread is only about the sloka in the screenshot earlier i.e. no other aspects, conjunctions, exchange etc. - in other words - all other factors being equal.
Rathore
I am yet to conclude is this sloka translation is correct or not so the thread is open. Yes the sloka needs to be applied after due diligence of other factors but this thread is just concentrating on this sloka (all other factors being equal). If you have a Sanskrit back ground or another BPHS translation from which you can quote the sloka, it would be very helpful.
There is another Yoga: if Mars and Saturn are in 7th house Cancer (there is a Capricorn version also somewhere), the person gets a chaste, devoted spouse. So Mars Saturn combining in 7th house is not always bad, which is why it becomes more important to decipher the sloka in question.
Lord Rama also had Moon/Jupiter aspecting the 7th. Please keep in mind this thread is only about the sloka in the screenshot earlier i.e. no other aspects, conjunctions, exchange etc. - in other words - all other factors being equal.
Rathore
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exalted mars!.
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thanks krishnaji for inputs...
The charts i posted above are of my friends..
Personally i think although saturn-mars are hard malific ..but they give good results when they combine in capricorn...what's your views?..what if this combo is in 7th house (in capricorn )from arudha lagna?..
Regards
EM!
The charts i posted above are of my friends..
Personally i think although saturn-mars are hard malific ..but they give good results when they combine in capricorn...what's your views?..what if this combo is in 7th house (in capricorn )from arudha lagna?..
Regards
EM!
!! samaya kevalum balayasi !!,
OM NAMO NARAYANAYA...(~_~)~~~~
OM NAMO NARAYANAYA...(~_~)~~~~
Please only quote from Astrological texts and make sure you read the full thread. Articles/Videos like this are available a dime a dozen. I repeat - be careful with SJC, Nikhilworld and KRS channel - a lot of what they quote is their own opinion rather than what is said by the Sages.
Rathore
I'm not familiar with SJC or Nikhilworld, but have seen KRS and I agree. Quite a few of his interpretations are suspect and in fact so much so that he has been known to contradict himself. Saying one thing about an aspect in a video and then saying the exact opposite about that same aspect in another video months later. Still he is one of the few Vedic "astrologers" who have their videos in English and therefore he is popular.rathore wrote: Please only quote from Astrological texts and make sure you read the full thread. Articles/Videos like this are available a dime a dozen. I repeat - be careful with SJC, Nikhilworld and KRS channel - a lot of what they quote is their own opinion rather than what is said by the Sages.
Rathore
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astrolearner15
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I don't know about contradictions when it comes to aspects, but I remember a video in which he said that one shouldn't keep a Shivling at home, whereas in an older one he said that one can do so.delilah wrote:
I'm not familiar with SJC or Nikhilworld, but have seen KRS and I agree. Quite a few of his interpretations are suspect and in fact so much so that he has been known to contradict himself. Saying one thing about an aspect in a video and then saying the exact opposite about that same aspect in another video months later. Still he is one of the few Vedic "astrologers" who have their videos in English and therefore he is popular.
This was what lead me to open a topic on keeping a Shivling at home on here.
Other than that I have found most of his videos quite useful. You're right, maybe it is because they are in English and quite well organised.
I checked the slokam as it occurs in the text. It seems the translators have mixed up the padas of the sloka with those of the preceding slokam.
Sloka 12 reads as follows:
Veshyaa vaa jaarini vaapi tasya bharyaa na samshayah |
Bhaumaamsakagathe sukre bhaumakshetragatheapi vaa ||
It may be translated as follows:
Undoubtedly his wife will be a veshyaa or a jaarini
If one has Venus in the (Nava)amsa of Mars; or Venus placed in a house of Mars (in Rashi).
Also it is possible there might be other slokas offering cancellation of the prediction - depending on the Navamsa; Upapada etc.
Sloka 12 reads as follows:
Veshyaa vaa jaarini vaapi tasya bharyaa na samshayah |
Bhaumaamsakagathe sukre bhaumakshetragatheapi vaa ||
It may be translated as follows:
Undoubtedly his wife will be a veshyaa or a jaarini
If one has Venus in the (Nava)amsa of Mars; or Venus placed in a house of Mars (in Rashi).
Also it is possible there might be other slokas offering cancellation of the prediction - depending on the Navamsa; Upapada etc.
Hari766 ji, I am glad you took interest in looking up the shloka which is the primary goal of this thread.
The sloka translation you have mentioned is mixed of #11 and #12. Please see the highlighted part, that is the sloka in question. For confirmation here is the translation of #10 (which is above #11): Malefics in 12th and 7th, while decreasing Moon is in 5th denotes that the native will be controlled by spouse, who will be inimical to the race (or family).
#12 translates as: Should Venus be in a Navamsa of Mars or in a Rasi of Mars, or receive a Aspect from or be conjunct with Mars, the native will kiss the private parts of the female.
Coming to the highlighted sloka in question (# 11), a Sanskrit expert has translated it for me as: If Saturn (or Mars) is in the 7th house and is also the lord of the 7th house then the wife of such a native is unchaste or is a prostitute for sure.
I am guessing you have Sanskrit skills so it will be great if you could attempt a translation.
I am happy to see the thread it taking direction.
Rathore
The sloka translation you have mentioned is mixed of #11 and #12. Please see the highlighted part, that is the sloka in question. For confirmation here is the translation of #10 (which is above #11): Malefics in 12th and 7th, while decreasing Moon is in 5th denotes that the native will be controlled by spouse, who will be inimical to the race (or family).
#12 translates as: Should Venus be in a Navamsa of Mars or in a Rasi of Mars, or receive a Aspect from or be conjunct with Mars, the native will kiss the private parts of the female.
Coming to the highlighted sloka in question (# 11), a Sanskrit expert has translated it for me as: If Saturn (or Mars) is in the 7th house and is also the lord of the 7th house then the wife of such a native is unchaste or is a prostitute for sure.
I am guessing you have Sanskrit skills so it will be great if you could attempt a translation.
I am happy to see the thread it taking direction.
Rathore
You do not have the required permissions to view the files attached to this post.
Rathore ji
I do not have the permissions to view the attachments in your post.
But when I checked the horasastra text in Sanskrit the slokam 12 is as I have given above. Apparently the translators also took the first pada of sloka 12 while giving their translation to sloka 11 - which is wrong. These slokas are in Anushtup chandas with 2 padas each. So only by combining the meanings of both padas of a sloka can we arrive at the meaning of a sloka.
The 11th sloka reads as
jathascha bharyaavashyah syaad iti. jaativirodhakrt. | (first pada)
jaamitre mandabhaume cha tadeeshe mandabhoomije || (second pada)
which may be translated as
Indeed the person would be hen-pecked and (he or his wife) performs acts against his caste/race;
if the 7th house has Saturn & Mars; or if the 7th house is owned by Saturn or Mars.
You can verify this by checking the BPHS Sanskrit original in
sanskritdocuments.org
I do not have the permissions to view the attachments in your post.
But when I checked the horasastra text in Sanskrit the slokam 12 is as I have given above. Apparently the translators also took the first pada of sloka 12 while giving their translation to sloka 11 - which is wrong. These slokas are in Anushtup chandas with 2 padas each. So only by combining the meanings of both padas of a sloka can we arrive at the meaning of a sloka.
The 11th sloka reads as
jathascha bharyaavashyah syaad iti. jaativirodhakrt. | (first pada)
jaamitre mandabhaume cha tadeeshe mandabhoomije || (second pada)
which may be translated as
Indeed the person would be hen-pecked and (he or his wife) performs acts against his caste/race;
if the 7th house has Saturn & Mars; or if the 7th house is owned by Saturn or Mars.
You can verify this by checking the BPHS Sanskrit original in
sanskritdocuments.org
Dear All,
जामित्रे मंदभौमे च तदीशे मन्दभूमिजे |
वेश्या वा जारिणी वापि तस्य भार्या न संशयः || ११ ||
अर्थ-
यह व्यभिचारिणी स्त्री योग को दर्शाता है| किसी पुरुष की कुंडली में यदि सप्तम स्थान में शनि या मंगल हों तथा वे ही सप्तमेश हों तो उस मनुष्य की पत्नी वेश्या या परपुरुषगामिनी (अर्थात- किसी भी दूसरे पुरुष के साथ चली जाने वाली या साथ रहने वाली) होती है|
Regards
जामित्रे मंदभौमे च तदीशे मन्दभूमिजे |
वेश्या वा जारिणी वापि तस्य भार्या न संशयः || ११ ||
अर्थ-
यह व्यभिचारिणी स्त्री योग को दर्शाता है| किसी पुरुष की कुंडली में यदि सप्तम स्थान में शनि या मंगल हों तथा वे ही सप्तमेश हों तो उस मनुष्य की पत्नी वेश्या या परपुरुषगामिनी (अर्थात- किसी भी दूसरे पुरुष के साथ चली जाने वाली या साथ रहने वाली) होती है|
Regards
Thank you DeepRelax ji - I confirmed with PVR ji today and he too said its an "AND". That means many BPHS versions are carrying the wrong translation and the translation provided by you is correct (Confirmed by two Sanskrit scholars).
Hari766 ji - I couldn't find the BPHS Sanskrit original on the site you mentioned if you could add the link, it will be great.
Rathore
Hari766 ji - I couldn't find the BPHS Sanskrit original on the site you mentioned if you could add the link, it will be great.
Rathore
Rathore, grammar and translation of Sanskrit 'our ancient language' is definitely not as easy as it appears to be. It is not just taking one line from a text and then sitting with a dictionary and take a one for one matching and then come up with a translation. And please accept information with a pinch of salt.
I'm glad I could help.
Blessings
I'm glad I could help.
Blessings
The two scholars who did the translation for me, one is Shri PVR ji himself (renowned Sanskrit expert and creator of JHORA) and another scholar who has done and is doing various Sanskrit Astrological texts translations. Their translation matches what you presented so in my mind there is no doubt now that most BPHS versions are carrying incorrect translation for this Sloka.
Thank you,
Rathore
Thank you,
Rathore
Sir, I understood some Astrological translations are not very high quality and should be read carefully. Could you please enlighten about which version of BPHS did you get the Sloka and its translation from? Or did you translate it yourself?
Gob bless you too.
Rathore
Gob bless you too.
Rathore
rathore ji
http://sanskritdocuments.org/all_pdf/par1120.pdf
In this PDF document refer the 4th page. At the bottom of the page starts the chapter on Jaaya Bhava or 7th House. Atha Jaayabhavaphaladhyayah.
Sloka 1 is
Jaayabhavaphalam vakshye......
Jaayadhipe swabhe swocche......
Sloka 11 is
Jaathascha Bhaaryaavashyah syaad iti...
Jaamitre mandabhaume cha.....
Which I have translated above.
Sloka 12 is
Veshyaa vaa jaarini.....
Bhaumaamsakagathe shukre....
Which I have translated above.
My point is - as per this Sanskrit version of BPHS available online - the sloka itself is different. I dont have the text in hardcopy.
If you/anyone has alternative viewpoints on the translation I have provided; I am open for a discussion.
http://sanskritdocuments.org/all_pdf/par1120.pdf
In this PDF document refer the 4th page. At the bottom of the page starts the chapter on Jaaya Bhava or 7th House. Atha Jaayabhavaphaladhyayah.
Sloka 1 is
Jaayabhavaphalam vakshye......
Jaayadhipe swabhe swocche......
Sloka 11 is
Jaathascha Bhaaryaavashyah syaad iti...
Jaamitre mandabhaume cha.....
Which I have translated above.
Sloka 12 is
Veshyaa vaa jaarini.....
Bhaumaamsakagathe shukre....
Which I have translated above.
My point is - as per this Sanskrit version of BPHS available online - the sloka itself is different. I dont have the text in hardcopy.
If you/anyone has alternative viewpoints on the translation I have provided; I am open for a discussion.
rathore ji
http://sanskritdocuments.org/all_pdf/par1120.pdf
In this PDF document refer the 4th page. At the bottom of the page starts the chapter on Jaaya Bhava or 7th House. Atha Jaayabhavaphaladhyayah.
Sloka 1 is
Jaayabhavaphalam vakshye......
Jaayadhipe swabhe swocche......
Sloka 11 is
Jaathascha Bhaaryaavashyah syaad iti...
Jaamitre mandabhaume cha.....
Which I have translated above.
Sloka 12 is
Veshyaa vaa jaarini.....
Bhaumaamsakagathe shukre....
Which I have translated above.
My point is - as per this Sanskrit version of BPHS available online - the sloka itself is different. I dont have the text in hardcopy.
If you/anyone has alternative viewpoints on the translation I have provided; I am open for a discussion.
http://sanskritdocuments.org/all_pdf/par1120.pdf
In this PDF document refer the 4th page. At the bottom of the page starts the chapter on Jaaya Bhava or 7th House. Atha Jaayabhavaphaladhyayah.
Sloka 1 is
Jaayabhavaphalam vakshye......
Jaayadhipe swabhe swocche......
Sloka 11 is
Jaathascha Bhaaryaavashyah syaad iti...
Jaamitre mandabhaume cha.....
Which I have translated above.
Sloka 12 is
Veshyaa vaa jaarini.....
Bhaumaamsakagathe shukre....
Which I have translated above.
My point is - as per this Sanskrit version of BPHS available online - the sloka itself is different. I dont have the text in hardcopy.
If you/anyone has alternative viewpoints on the translation I have provided; I am open for a discussion.
Hari ji,
Thank you so much for sharing the direct link. It seems Sloka #8 is probably a 3 line Sloka but the text ends it in 2 lines. The reason I think is because the translation of Sloka #8 and the line next to it are of the same nature.
Sloka #8 Translation: Mercury indicates harlots, mean females and females belonging to traders community. Wife of a Brahmin or a pregnant female will be in the native's association, if Jupiter is in 7th. Base females and females having attained their courses are denoted by Saturn, Rahu/Ketu in 7th.
The last line (in bold italic) actually appears after the text ends the Sloka. After this all Slokas numbers seems to be messed up.
In short, if you could please read the Sanskrit Slokas from #7 upto Sloka #13, it would show the misprint of the Sloka numbers.
Please add the feedback. I am very happy the way this thread is going on because someone who really cares about Jyotish will make such an effort.
Rathore
Thank you so much for sharing the direct link. It seems Sloka #8 is probably a 3 line Sloka but the text ends it in 2 lines. The reason I think is because the translation of Sloka #8 and the line next to it are of the same nature.
Sloka #8 Translation: Mercury indicates harlots, mean females and females belonging to traders community. Wife of a Brahmin or a pregnant female will be in the native's association, if Jupiter is in 7th. Base females and females having attained their courses are denoted by Saturn, Rahu/Ketu in 7th.
The last line (in bold italic) actually appears after the text ends the Sloka. After this all Slokas numbers seems to be messed up.
In short, if you could please read the Sanskrit Slokas from #7 upto Sloka #13, it would show the misprint of the Sloka numbers.
Please add the feedback. I am very happy the way this thread is going on because someone who really cares about Jyotish will make such an effort.
Rathore
rathore ji
IMHO we need to look at the sloka in original Sanskrit to determine whether there is a possibility of an extra line.
As I wrote earlier these texts are written in Anushtup Chandas. It has 4 charanas of exactly 8 letters. Addition of even a single extra letter to the sloka; let alone a whole line altogether - would disturb the Chandas. It would reflect badly on the sloka recitation too.
I have examined all slokas starting with sloka 1. They all closely follow the rules of Anushtup chandas. There is no extra line anywhere nor missprint of sloka numbers in sloka 8 or anywhere else. Please verify the Sanskrit slokas from your end and let me know.
I also examined sloka 8 & 9. Their meanings are different.
It appears that the mess up has originated in the translation you were referring to. The translator has taken some extra freedom by combining a full sloka AS WELL AS part of another sloka. Now he is left with the remaining part - which he combines with the first part of the next sloka. From then onwards we see the pattern emerging of the translator combining disparate padas of consecutive slokas & thus creating wrong slokas & obviously wrong meanings.
IMHO we need to look at the sloka in original Sanskrit to determine whether there is a possibility of an extra line.
As I wrote earlier these texts are written in Anushtup Chandas. It has 4 charanas of exactly 8 letters. Addition of even a single extra letter to the sloka; let alone a whole line altogether - would disturb the Chandas. It would reflect badly on the sloka recitation too.
I have examined all slokas starting with sloka 1. They all closely follow the rules of Anushtup chandas. There is no extra line anywhere nor missprint of sloka numbers in sloka 8 or anywhere else. Please verify the Sanskrit slokas from your end and let me know.
I also examined sloka 8 & 9. Their meanings are different.
It appears that the mess up has originated in the translation you were referring to. The translator has taken some extra freedom by combining a full sloka AS WELL AS part of another sloka. Now he is left with the remaining part - which he combines with the first part of the next sloka. From then onwards we see the pattern emerging of the translator combining disparate padas of consecutive slokas & thus creating wrong slokas & obviously wrong meanings.
But sometimes right in the middle of a sloka a new topic is introduced. Hence in sloka 9 the 2nd pada starting with Kujedha.... introduces a new topic. But this new topic ends at the 2nd pada of sloka 10 ie in paape dwadasakamasthe...
From then onwards normal service is resumed. ie we read slokas 11;12 etc as it appears in the text. If we dont do this then the whole system of ordering the slokas in Sanskrit will be rendered meaningless.
This however is my understanding after going thru the slokas. I dont claim to be anywhere near a Sanskrit scholar eventhough I have dabbled a bit with Sanskrit texts.
From then onwards normal service is resumed. ie we read slokas 11;12 etc as it appears in the text. If we dont do this then the whole system of ordering the slokas in Sanskrit will be rendered meaningless.
This however is my understanding after going thru the slokas. I dont claim to be anywhere near a Sanskrit scholar eventhough I have dabbled a bit with Sanskrit texts.
