Difference between porutham and gun milan?

Questions about marriage and relationships.
Forum rules
READ Forum-Wide Rules and Guidelines NOTICE: OFFENSIVE POSTS WILL BE DELETED, AND OFFENDERS WILL HAVE ALL POSTS MODERATED.
CLOST
Contributor
Contributor
Posts: 131
Joined: 16 Apr 2010

Dear Sinecurve
Love, success, happiness...pretty subjective terms. Forget what the world thinks, our own perception of Love changes during different stages of life.


Love being subjective does not make it less significant. Just like different mothers take care of their offspring in different ways, and yet a 'mother's love' is more or less beheld as highly as it is, by people around the world. Similarly because love evolves it doesn't become less powerful. Evolution is almost synonymous with survival, with strength, with fortification. If anything because love (between two people) evolves over time, it becomes stronger. My point was that because we, or people around us lose and suffer in love or often what we assume to be 'love', we shouldn't automatically preclude the power of love itself, in totality.
About the grossly poor match part, Get a mannequin and try to love it with all forgiveness and selflessness and whatever...Cant do it ? why ? Its because our emotions need to feed on something to survive. Isnt that what a relationship is all 'bout ?
[/quote]

This is typically called a red herring fallacy in argumentation. Introducing a mannequin is into the discussion is irrelevant. The premise of the discussion is the interaction between two alive human beings, and even if you had given an example of an animal I could have maintained the importance of love, forgiveness and selflessness. By introducing a non-living object into the pace, you effectively stymied a reply.

Regards
Clost
CLOST
Contributor
Contributor
Posts: 131
Joined: 16 Apr 2010

Another big mistake I think we all often make is to take a bunch of events and generalize and to make it worse only do it when we feel like it.

If divorce is rising, love must be hogwash, right? By the same token, considering there are more quacks in India then authentic doctors we all should stop going to our physicians, because medicine must be hogwash. And why leave astrology out, since there was way more fly by night 'pandits' and astrologers then real discerning scholars then jyotish must be pure gimmick?

Love has always been accursed. And I feel badly about it.

If 40 million people have never introspected, never paused to think about who they are and what they want and in turn make hasty, misguided decisions about marriage. If most people on this planet eulogize herd mentality. If most people don't have the courage to right their wrongs. Whats the result?
They blame the purest, most guileless thing, a thing that hasn't been invented in the 21st century but has existed since the beginning of time - love.

An easy scapegoat for all the failings within us that we try so hard to conceal.
User avatar
sinecurve
Frequent Contributor
Frequent Contributor
Posts: 765
Joined: 06 Dec 2009
Location: Relocating....

CLOST wrote:Dear Sinecurve
Love, success, happiness...pretty subjective terms. Forget what the world thinks, our own perception of Love changes during different stages of life.


Love being subjective does not make it less significant. Just like different mothers take care of their offspring in different ways, and yet a 'mother's love' is more or less beheld as highly as it is, by people around the world. Similarly because love evolves it doesn't become less powerful. Evolution is almost synonymous with survival, with strength, with fortification. If anything because love (between two people) evolves over time, it becomes stronger. My point was that because we, or people around us lose and suffer in love or often what we assume to be 'love', we shouldn't automatically preclude the power of love itself, in totality.
About the grossly poor match part, Get a mannequin and try to love it with all forgiveness and selflessness and whatever...Cant do it ? why ? Its because our emotions need to feed on something to survive. Isnt that what a relationship is all 'bout ?
This is typically called a red herring fallacy in argumentation. Introducing a mannequin is into the discussion is irrelevant. The premise of the discussion is the interaction between two alive human beings, and even if you had given an example of an animal I could have maintained the importance of love, forgiveness and selflessness. By introducing a non-living object into the pace, you effectively stymied a reply.

Regards
Clost
Mannequin was more of symbolic , if you will. I might have used an animal but was little skeptical 'bout it. :) :roll: Isnt a wooden dummy slightly better than a psychopath or wife beater ?

I am sure the selflessness, forgiveness and whatever other qualities you mentioned dont dissipate with time, inspite of an abusive partner...obviously the 'Power of Love' will change him/her one day...and Vola ! Sun rises from the west ? :)

AND Yes LOVE...I agree, me and few others here might not be able to acknowledge the 'POWER OF LOVE', but I am sure you have experienced it ... and you seem to endorse it. All the best with it !
CLOST wrote:Another big mistake I think we all often make is to take a bunch of events and generalize and to make it worse only do it when we feel like it.

If divorce is rising, love must be hogwash, right? By the same token, considering there are more quacks in India then authentic doctors we all should stop going to our physicians, because medicine must be hogwash. And why leave astrology out, since there was way more fly by night 'pandits' and astrologers then real discerning scholars then jyotish must be pure gimmick?

Love has always been accursed. And I feel badly about it.
Love - See I am not trying to use the 'WE' factor here but may be you have witnessed and experienced 'Love' that most of us are not blessed with...thats why the complains and all the frustration. I feel its the dasha and planetary transits we go through that pollutes our minds and the 'Power of Love' eventually gets so foggy to us. I tend to store LOVA charts and just had a quick glance at your chart, Please dont get me wrong on this but would you mind reiterating 'LOVE and its POWERS' back on this forum... say in Dec 2012 ? I will love to hear back from ya...

Cognition 'bout every aspect of life pretty much changes with time...for good or bad..who knows ?
'वक्त से पहले और मुक़द्दर् से ज्यादा किसी को कुछ नहीं मिलता' - Neither before time nor beyond destiny, would you attain anything !
User avatar
sinecurve
Frequent Contributor
Frequent Contributor
Posts: 765
Joined: 06 Dec 2009
Location: Relocating....

Nice Article !

How much ever astrologers take the credit, it is destiny for the native to seek advice, and again its his destiny (based on his planetary positions) to accept or reject the advice. Almost 15 years back my frustrated dad took my chart to one of the best astrologers in town. When back, out of curiosity I asked him and he quoted what astrologer told him ' For next few years your son wont listen to anything you say so dont waste time and money seeking advice'. :) I was like damm...this astrologer is smart and he really knows stuff. :mrgreen:

Theres an old saying ' Waqt se pahle aur mukaddar se jyada kisi ko kuch nahin milta'. Does that mean we stop trying ? NO WAY ! We have to get out of bed, go to work and keep smiling....because thats our destiny ....Cant help it !

PS. How do some posts just keep getn in between ? Shouldnt they be in order of time when posted ...Another technical glitch ?
'वक्त से पहले और मुक़द्दर् से ज्यादा किसी को कुछ नहीं मिलता' - Neither before time nor beyond destiny, would you attain anything !
CLOST
Contributor
Contributor
Posts: 131
Joined: 16 Apr 2010

Mannequin was more of symbolic , if you will. I might have used an animal but was little skeptical 'bout it. Isnt a wooden dummy slightly better than a psychopath or wife beater ?
I am sorry but I think you're really not understanding my point. It could be because I am not being clear enough. My point is that it is utter hypocrisy to learn by rote ancient scriptures on jyotish and then selectively forget what other ancient scriptures say about hate/malevolence and what they say about forgiveness/grace.

I do not endorse being a martyr by placing my head on the guillotine and mutely suffering injustice is WRONG. But of all these people flooding the relationship and marriage section with tales of trouble, do we really know how many are actually suffering gravely and how many are crying because they have microscopic levels of tolerance?

I would really like to know how many of these people have faced psychopaths or wife beaters?
I am sure the selflessness, forgiveness and whatever other qualities you mentioned dont dissipate with time, inspite of an abusive partner...obviously the 'Power of Love' will change him/her one day...and Vola ! Sun rises from the west ?
It is indeed sad that you do not know how to talk about someone else's viewpoint without mocking them.
And it is also sad that maybe you never experienced a change based on the power of goodness and love, neither in yourself or in the subject of your love or in the people around you.

We get so blown away with tales of woe that we forget about randomness. There will always be a mix of everything in a population. People around the world die being convoluted as they were and people around the world also die changed men and women. You really think every criminal, evil-doer in this world dies without changing or redeeming themselves?
AND Yes LOVE...I agree, me and few others here might not be able to acknowledge the 'POWER OF LOVE', but I am sure you have experienced it ... and you seem to endorse it. All the best with it !
Love - See I am not trying to use the 'WE' factor here but may be you have witnessed and experienced 'Love' that most of us are not blessed with...thats why the complains and all the frustration. I feel its the dasha and planetary transits we go through that pollutes our minds and the 'Power of Love' eventually gets so foggy to us. I tend to store LOVA charts and just had a quick glance at your chart, Please dont get me wrong on this but would you mind reiterating 'LOVE and its POWERS' back on this forum... say in Dec 2012 ? I will love to hear back from ya...
:) Wow! How toxic!
I am sorry if I hadn't known you were older than I, I would have kind of understood the way you let your reply go wayward.
It makes me smile because you assumed I endorse love since I have had such a good run with it. Without going into explanations I would just say that had you known about my experiences you wouldn't have written that.
The difference is not that I got the more colorful, the bigger, the better present in the birthday party. The difference is in our perspectives.

That was an extremely below the belt attack. Using someone else's chart, stored from before, in an unrelated conversation and trying to intimidate them by saying terrible times lie ahead of them.

Dear sinecurve I lost my father when I was fourteen years old. Did it occur to you that my comments were not based on a smooth, candyfloss life so far? Maybe they were based on having seen and surmounted a lot already and knowing now that no matter what happens I can take it, and be with God?
CLOST
Contributor
Contributor
Posts: 131
Joined: 16 Apr 2010

chaos12 wrote:Hi

With all due respect to each and everyone's views on this thread, somebody please answer / illustrate the difference b/w porutham and gun milan?
Also,if a horoscope doesn't match according to the south indian method are there chances that it can match with the north indian method?
Dear chaos12

I am sorry that your query got lost in all this. It is unfair.

Although I don't know much about south India's astrology system, I tried to find a satisfying answer to your query. Not sure if it will be of much help.

Jathaka Porutham is similar to gun milap in its intent - matching horoscopes.
Jathaka Porutham bases on 10 factors or dasha koota (namely dina, gana, yoni, rasi, rasiyathipati, rajju, vedha, vasya, mahendra and stree deergha) and the north indian gun milap/milan is based on ashta koota or 8 factors (namely, varna, vashya, tara, yoni, graha maitri, gana, bhakoot, nadi)

Rajju, vedha, mahendra and stree deergha are not included in north indian analyses. Rajju is deemed the most important out of it.

You question was-can two charts match on north indian well, if they don't pass on the south indian.

Yes it is possible.
for eg. boy's nakshatra = Ashlesha and girl's nakshatra = Moola
North Indian gun milan =24 out of 36
South Indian porutham = rajju dosha so not advised

There is more detail involved, but maybe this was what you wanted to know. You'll probably have to give more details if there is a particular case.

Please do correct me if you find a mistake

tc
Clost
User avatar
sinecurve
Frequent Contributor
Frequent Contributor
Posts: 765
Joined: 06 Dec 2009
Location: Relocating....

CLOST wrote:
Mannequin was more of symbolic , if you will. I might have used an animal but was little skeptical 'bout it. Isnt a wooden dummy slightly better than a psychopath or wife beater ?
I am sorry but I think you're really not understanding my point. It could be because I am not being clear enough. My point is that it is utter hypocrisy to learn by rote ancient scriptures on jyotish and then selectively forget what other ancient scriptures say about hate/malevolence and what they say about forgiveness/grace.

I do not endorse being a martyr by placing my head on the guillotine and mutely suffering injustice is WRONG. But of all these people flooding the relationship and marriage section with tales of trouble, do we really know how many are actually suffering gravely and how many are crying because they have microscopic levels of tolerance?

I would really like to know how many of these people have faced psychopaths or wife beaters?
I am sure the selflessness, forgiveness and whatever other qualities you mentioned dont dissipate with time, inspite of an abusive partner...obviously the 'Power of Love' will change him/her one day...and Vola ! Sun rises from the west ?
It is indeed sad that you do not know how to talk about someone else's viewpoint without mocking them.
And it is also sad that maybe you never experienced a change based on the power of goodness and love, neither in yourself or in the subject of your love or in the people around you.

We get so blown away with tales of woe that we forget about randomness. There will always be a mix of everything in a population. People around the world die being convoluted as they were and people around the world also die changed men and women. You really think every criminal, evil-doer in this world dies without changing or redeeming themselves?
AND Yes LOVE...I agree, me and few others here might not be able to acknowledge the 'POWER OF LOVE', but I am sure you have experienced it ... and you seem to endorse it. All the best with it !
Love - See I am not trying to use the 'WE' factor here but may be you have witnessed and experienced 'Love' that most of us are not blessed with...thats why the complains and all the frustration. I feel its the dasha and planetary transits we go through that pollutes our minds and the 'Power of Love' eventually gets so foggy to us. I tend to store LOVA charts and just had a quick glance at your chart, Please dont get me wrong on this but would you mind reiterating 'LOVE and its POWERS' back on this forum... say in Dec 2012 ? I will love to hear back from ya...
:) Wow! How toxic!
I am sorry if I hadn't known you were older than I, I would have kind of understood the way you let your reply go wayward.
It makes me smile because you assumed I endorse love since I have had such a good run with it. Without going into explanations I would just say that had you known about my experiences you wouldn't have written that.
The difference is not that I got the more colorful, the bigger, the better present in the birthday party. The difference is in our perspectives.

That was an extremely below the belt attack. Using someone else's chart, stored from before, in an unrelated conversation and trying to intimidate them by saying terrible times lie ahead of them.

Dear sinecurve I lost my father when I was fourteen years old. Did it occur to you that my comments were not based on a smooth, candyfloss life so far? Maybe they were based on having seen and surmounted a lot already and knowing now that no matter what happens I can take it, and be with God?
huh ! No wonder Yamraj gave satyavan back to Savitri, poor fellow would have had a headache for days and repented of why he even argued so much. :) Just a joke...Please dont kill it !

Yes Maam Its all about perception which changes with time. Few days back one of my friend had her FB status ' The people who are now heartless are the same people who once cared tooo much..' So yes tolerance is also one of the factor.

I never said that you have a terrible time ahead, please dont read between the lines. KE certainly clears our mind from delusions and hence you might see things a little differently during the phase.


I am sorry to hear 'bout you father and I am sure you might have gone through a rough patch. I hope that you get the love you aspire and have a great life ahead.

All the best !
'वक्त से पहले और मुक़द्दर् से ज्यादा किसी को कुछ नहीं मिलता' - Neither before time nor beyond destiny, would you attain anything !
User avatar
astroboy
Donor
Donor
Posts: 6172
Joined: 16 Mar 2010

Chaos 12,

I had Written to Vaughn Paul ji some days back regarding the problem of new members not being able to view the attachments. I have specifically highlighted the fact that many new members join this forum just so that they can view the attachments. The problem is the same with the new Donors. I hope that this issue will be addressed as soon as possible.
Through hard work and spiritual practices, a person gets honor and dignity. The lazy one who puts in no efforts is like a fool who allows salt to be spilled on the wounds of his misfortunes. The idler depending only on fate, achieves nothing. - K.N.Rao ji
CLOST
Contributor
Contributor
Posts: 131
Joined: 16 Apr 2010

huh ! No wonder Yamraj gave satyavan back to Savitri, poor fellow would have had a headache for days and repented of why he even argued so much. :) Just a joke...Please dont kill it !

Yes Maam Its all about perception which changes with time. Few days back one of my friend had her FB status ' The people who are now heartless are the same people who once cared tooo much..' So yes tolerance is also one of the factor.

I never said that you have a terrible time ahead, please dont read between the lines. KE certainly clears our mind from delusions and hence you might see things a little differently during the phase.
I know you might find it easy to make a light-hearted joke, in all honesty I can't participate in it. :)
For very good reasons I could have reported you for picking out my chart which was posted on this forum with a specific query in the past and bringing it and my immediate delusion-destroying future into an irrelevant discussion.

I decided against it.
A) because I shouldn't spend so much time talking about forgiveness and not practising it
B) because I realised that Sun/Ketu in my Vim Dasha made you think my delusions will be removed (you should really spend some more time there)
and C) because I didn't want to convince someone else to begin with, I was just trying to make a point which I thought I could make on LOVA w/o having to face personal attacks.

Savitri really loved Satyavan I think. I m sure you attribute it to nagging. To each his own!
User avatar
astroboy
Donor
Donor
Posts: 6172
Joined: 16 Mar 2010

by CLOST » Wed May 30, 2012 6:04 pm
B) because I realised that Sun/Ketu in my Vim Dasha made you think my delusions will be removed (you should really spend some more time there)
Dear CLOST
Ravi - Budha is in operation -(Nov 2011 - Sept 2012). Please align the dasha scheme on your software.
Through hard work and spiritual practices, a person gets honor and dignity. The lazy one who puts in no efforts is like a fool who allows salt to be spilled on the wounds of his misfortunes. The idler depending only on fate, achieves nothing. - K.N.Rao ji
CLOST
Contributor
Contributor
Posts: 131
Joined: 16 Apr 2010

astroboy wrote:Dear CLOST
Ravi - Budha is in operation -(Nov 2011 - Sept 2012). Please align the dasha scheme on your software.
Dear Astroboy

This is what sinecurve wrote
Please dont get me wrong on this but would you mind reiterating 'LOVE and its POWERS' back on this forum... say in Dec 2012 ? I will love to hear back from ya...
and this
KE certainly clears our mind from delusions and hence you might see things a little differently during the phase.
Sun/Ketu is the next one, Sep 2012-Jan 2013

Regards
Clost
User avatar
astroboy
Donor
Donor
Posts: 6172
Joined: 16 Mar 2010

:) ok we are in sync.
Through hard work and spiritual practices, a person gets honor and dignity. The lazy one who puts in no efforts is like a fool who allows salt to be spilled on the wounds of his misfortunes. The idler depending only on fate, achieves nothing. - K.N.Rao ji
CLOST
Contributor
Contributor
Posts: 131
Joined: 16 Apr 2010

:D

You could help me. I don't understand and couldn't find the literal meaning of the word porutham.
Is it 'matching'?
CLOST
Contributor
Contributor
Posts: 131
Joined: 16 Apr 2010

Dear sinecurve

I am sorry if anything I wrote offended you.

:D let's forget about all this

Regards
Clost
User avatar
astroboy
Donor
Donor
Posts: 6172
Joined: 16 Mar 2010

Dear CLOST,

"Poruttham" is a South Indian (Kerala based) word for (Kutam). In Kannada "Kuta" means "union" or "joining together" or "to join together".

In Tulu (a language spoken within a radius of 60 km North south and East of the South Kanara district) it means to "join together in peace" or in extremes "Joining together in a manner that two elements become one - thus sharing each others Karma"

All words are derived from Sanskrit. The word "Poruttham" is a bastardized version of the word "purutman" meaning "Partner" or to further bastardize it, as the years went by "joining of the male and the female yoni"
Through hard work and spiritual practices, a person gets honor and dignity. The lazy one who puts in no efforts is like a fool who allows salt to be spilled on the wounds of his misfortunes. The idler depending only on fate, achieves nothing. - K.N.Rao ji
CLOST
Contributor
Contributor
Posts: 131
Joined: 16 Apr 2010

Thank you so much Astroboy :-)
I couldn't find this anywhere.

Tc
Clost
User avatar
astroboy
Donor
Donor
Posts: 6172
Joined: 16 Mar 2010

I will give you another example where compatability works. Compatability need not be restricted to marriage alone. You can extend it to general relationships as well.


Astro Boy
26 04 1973
00 : 26
Mangalore



Milredr
10 04 1973
17 : 30
Mangalore

T.C. Mil - D3.jpg
T.C Mil - D3.jpg
We met on this forum. Today we are in a business venture together. Both have invested a considerable sum, purely on the basis of trust and friendship. We have also become close family friends.
You do not have the required permissions to view the files attached to this post.
Through hard work and spiritual practices, a person gets honor and dignity. The lazy one who puts in no efforts is like a fool who allows salt to be spilled on the wounds of his misfortunes. The idler depending only on fate, achieves nothing. - K.N.Rao ji
CLOST
Contributor
Contributor
Posts: 131
Joined: 16 Apr 2010

chaos12 wrote:
Thank you sir for replying back.
Yes, your reply was helpful. Could you also tell the gun milan and porutham of these two rashis.

Girl : Vishaka
Boy : Purva ashada / pooradam.

Is it advsible?
Hi Chaos12

Please call me Ma'am. Just kidding :D I meant to say that I am not a sir..

What you gave were the nakshatras, if we just match the two using a ready made chart, they give a satisfactory score. However, there is much more to matching two charts than just this.

I do have a feeling, that you are perhaps trying to convince someone else of this being a good match?

If you want a detailed match you could post both your birth details.

tc
Clost
CLOST
Contributor
Contributor
Posts: 131
Joined: 16 Apr 2010

Hi Astroboy

What is this software that you use for matching purposes?
Looks like a detailed report. I am sure it has more features too.

Regards
Clost
Sunds
Contributor
Contributor
Posts: 191
Joined: 29 Nov 2010

Hi Astorboy,
Can you just check the following two charts for marriage compatibility using the above shown software....If possible lease post the jpg picture too as shown above.
Male DOB.. 6..September..1968
Time..3.40 AM
place..Chennai.
Girl....
DOB..19 November1974
Time..14.00
place.. Chennai.
please oblige.
Regards,
Sunder.
Birth Details: 06/Sept./1968, 3.40 AM, Chennai...
I believe it because I hope for it...- Leon Blum.
Sunds
Contributor
Contributor
Posts: 191
Joined: 29 Nov 2010

AstroBoy,
Kindly check the two above charts and revert back.
Regards,
Sunder.
Birth Details: 06/Sept./1968, 3.40 AM, Chennai...
I believe it because I hope for it...- Leon Blum.
User avatar
astroboy
Donor
Donor
Posts: 6172
Joined: 16 Mar 2010

by Sunds » Thu May 31, 2012 7:40 pm

Male DOB.. 6..September..1968
Time..3.40 AM
place..Chennai.


Girl....
DOB..19 November1974
Time..14.00
place.. Chennai.
T.C. - Sunds.jpg
You do not have the required permissions to view the files attached to this post.
Through hard work and spiritual practices, a person gets honor and dignity. The lazy one who puts in no efforts is like a fool who allows salt to be spilled on the wounds of his misfortunes. The idler depending only on fate, achieves nothing. - K.N.Rao ji
Sunds
Contributor
Contributor
Posts: 191
Joined: 29 Nov 2010

Hi AstroBoy,
Thank You for the reply.....As per your analysis the two charts match well....This is my chart and my ex-wife's chart....I am trying to reconcile with her....But most softwares show that our charts do not match....Hence I just wanted to re-confirm if you got all the details right...
I am Satabhisha Nakshatra , Kumbha Rasi and Cancer Lagna...
She is U-Shadha Nakshatra , Makar Rasi and Meena Lagna...
Also if she were to be born 5 minutes earlier her Lagna changes to Aquarius..
Can you please reconfirm to me the matching and also if her lagna changes to Aquarius does the charts still match well.
Sorry for the trouble.
Regards,
Sunder.
Birth Details: 06/Sept./1968, 3.40 AM, Chennai...
I believe it because I hope for it...- Leon Blum.
User avatar
astroboy
Donor
Donor
Posts: 6172
Joined: 16 Mar 2010

No suprises. Your answer is ready. let me get the Pics. will give you an answer. The data and the Matching Score is right, the data used is right.
Through hard work and spiritual practices, a person gets honor and dignity. The lazy one who puts in no efforts is like a fool who allows salt to be spilled on the wounds of his misfortunes. The idler depending only on fate, achieves nothing. - K.N.Rao ji
User avatar
astroboy
Donor
Donor
Posts: 6172
Joined: 16 Mar 2010

T.C.Sunds Chart 1.jpg
1st point is this. A debilitated Kuja, or Kuja for that matter, aspecting the 7th can never be Good. People say, that a Debilitated Kuja Gets a Kuja Dosha Bhanga. But I don't know how far that is true.

The 2nd point is that the 7th lord Shani is Debilitated, But Retrograde. A Retrograde Shani becomes strong, Provided he has cheshta Rashmis. In this case, Shani Gains 11.36 Rashmis, and is reasonably strong.

Now the Point is, Shani owns both the 7th and the 8th Bhavas. His debilitation and his resonable strength makes for troubled times.

There are two kinds of strengths in a human, 1. strength of Character and 2.Physical strength. Both are complementry to each other. Shad bala and Ashtakavarga are a measure of Physical strength. The Avastas are a measure of Strength of Character.


To be continued
You do not have the required permissions to view the files attached to this post.
Last edited by astroboy on 02 Jun 2012, edited 2 times in total.
Through hard work and spiritual practices, a person gets honor and dignity. The lazy one who puts in no efforts is like a fool who allows salt to be spilled on the wounds of his misfortunes. The idler depending only on fate, achieves nothing. - K.N.Rao ji
Post Reply