Chaos 12,
I have dealt with this subject in the past, and also discussed it thread bare. The net result was that I ended up getting trashed in the process. However I shall reply to your query because you have asked a pertinent question which deserves a detailed answer.
Before I give you an answer, I want to take this opportunity to clear up a few things.
I am a firm believer in matching horoscopes. Many people on this forum believe that your partner is ""pre -destined"". If that were to be the case, we might as well shut down this forum and go about minding our own business, because, If the most important factor of one’s life is ""pre - destined"" then every other factor of life would be ""pre - destined"". If who your spouse is going to be is ""Pre destined"" then who you study under, and work under is also ""pre - destined"". If the spouse we get in marriage is pre destined, then why not career, education, and shelter be ""pre - destined""? Why bother to learn, discuss, and apply astrological dictums to our lives, for is it not a fact that if everything is ""pre - destined"" then, whatever has to happen will happen, no matter what you do to avoid it. Why bother to know what fate lies in store for you? We might as well sit back and take things as they come.
If every factor of life was pre - destined, as suggested by some, Sage Parashara would not have dedicated 14 chapters to explain what remedies have to be applied to rectify the defects in a Horoscope.
Remember, a human performs new Karmas and establishes new Rnanubandhanas (Bond of Karmic debts) at a frenzied pace in his lifetime. Our advancements in travel and communication have increased our abilities to establish new bonds with others, with speed that was not possible 2 centuries back. Moral and social taboos have broken down and it is now easy to establish deep bonds with the ""other"" within a short span of time.
The horoscope provides us with indications of which relationships, be it a business partner, or a romantic associate or a spouse, will prove easy or difficult for the individual. Some relationships that start off with great expectations, fizzle out like an Indian public water tap in summer, only to lead to disarray, disappointment and tragedy. Some other relationships that look troublesome and hell bound at first mature into enjoyable, supportive, and lovable long term alliances. Jyotishya is an excellent barometer for measuring relationship climate. It can show you which associations will enjoy clear skies and calm seas, and which associations are likely to land up in rough weather. Jyotishya can also help us forecast changes in the atmosphere of existing relationships, and can also suggest whether these shifts are likely to be for the better of for the worse.
So how does Jyotishya help you assess the quality of relationships and marriage? Jyotishya advices us to examine the quality and strength of the 2nd ( Family ) 4th (Home, happiness ) the 7th (Spouse, relationships ) 8th ( Longitivity of the relationship ) and the 12th (bed pleasures and satisfaction) Bhavas to assess what the dynamics with relationships would be. In addition to this, it is wise to give the 5th house a look because the 5th indicates Children. Many marriages have gone down the drain due to the lack of one of the partner's ability to not have children, and many a marriage has broken because of a partner’s conscious decision to not have children. It is also important to assess the Navamsha in great detail before arriving at a conclusion.
The next process if to match the horoscopes using the Porutthams {Nakshatra, Gana, Mahendra, Stri Dirga, Yoni, Rashi, Rashyadhipati, Vashya, Rajju, and Vedha (or Nadi)} by counting from the position of the moon in the females chart to the position of the Moon in the Males chart.
Finally apply synastry to assess the degree of harmony that two people create when they interact.
In the next post I shall quote an example to highlight the difference between the Ashta Koota and the Poruttham System of matching horoscopes.
Difference between porutham and gun milan?
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Through hard work and spiritual practices, a person gets honor and dignity. The lazy one who puts in no efforts is like a fool who allows salt to be spilled on the wounds of his misfortunes. The idler depending only on fate, achieves nothing. - K.N.Rao ji
AstroboyJI, Hope you are doing good !astroboy wrote:Chaos 12,
So how does Jyotishya help you assess the quality of relationships and marriage? Jyotishya advices us to examine the quality and strength of the 2nd ( Family ) 4th (Home, happiness ) the 7th (Spouse, relationships ) 8th ( Longitivity of the relationship ) and the 12th (bed pleasures and satisfaction) Bhavas. In addition to this, it is wise to give the 5th house a look because the 5th indicates Children. Many marriages have gone down the drain due to the lack of one of the partner's ability to not have children, and many a marriage has broken because of a partner’s conscious decision to not have children. It is also important to assess the Navamsha in great detail before arriving at a conclusion.
I have a quick question here...
Suppose a chart is totally screwed from marriage / relationship prospective , does it even make sense to match it with ANY chart ? I mean this guy for whatever karmic reason is 'pre-destined' to suffer from relationships / partners, so you get him married to hurley or anyone...if hes happy from relationships, that would kind of overwrite/nullify of whats written in the chart...right ?
AND We all know for a fact that Remedies dont work and theres no God who will hold your finger in bad times, the most these euphoric stories could do is to give you a non-prescription good night sleep.
'वक्त से पहले और मुक़द्दर् से ज्यादा किसी को कुछ नहीं मिलता' - Neither before time nor beyond destiny, would you attain anything !
Good day Sine curve,
What chance do you give this chart? The 7th lord is debilitated. There is a Neecha Bhanga, but no Raja Yoga, since the neecha bhanga does not take place in a Kendra. All the Malefics in the Sky hammer the 7th house. The 7th lord is with a exalted 8th lord. That can never be good can it? So much is said about the 1/7 Rahu Ketu axis. Here Both are debilitated and lack a benefic aspect. Shukra is in a pretty bad state. He is just out of a planetary war with Guru, and is in a Mrityu Avasta. The Navamsha 7th lord is debilitated in the D1. What chance do you think this person has in the realm of Marriage and relationships?
What chance do you give this chart? The 7th lord is debilitated. There is a Neecha Bhanga, but no Raja Yoga, since the neecha bhanga does not take place in a Kendra. All the Malefics in the Sky hammer the 7th house. The 7th lord is with a exalted 8th lord. That can never be good can it? So much is said about the 1/7 Rahu Ketu axis. Here Both are debilitated and lack a benefic aspect. Shukra is in a pretty bad state. He is just out of a planetary war with Guru, and is in a Mrityu Avasta. The Navamsha 7th lord is debilitated in the D1. What chance do you think this person has in the realm of Marriage and relationships?
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Through hard work and spiritual practices, a person gets honor and dignity. The lazy one who puts in no efforts is like a fool who allows salt to be spilled on the wounds of his misfortunes. The idler depending only on fate, achieves nothing. - K.N.Rao ji
Tho aggressive and slightly stubborn but overall a great personality. If the person ever got married he/she would have dragged the marriage because of kids. Sexual fulfillment is there but not from marriage.astroboy wrote: Good day Sine curve,
What chance do you give this chart? The 7th lord is debilitated. There is a Neecha Bhanga, but no Raja Yoga, since the neecha bhanga does not take place in a Kendra. All the Malefics in the Sky hammer the 7th house. The 7th lord is with a exalted 8th lord. That can never be good can it? So much is said about the 1/7 Rahu Ketu axis. Here Both are debilitated and lack a benefic aspect. Shukra is in a pretty bad state. He is just out of a planetary war with Guru, and is in a Mrityu Avasta. The Navamsha 7th lord is debilitated in the D1. What chance do you think this person has in the realm of Marriage and relationships?
SA pretty much rules the chart !
'वक्त से पहले और मुक़द्दर् से ज्यादा किसी को कुछ नहीं मिलता' - Neither before time nor beyond destiny, would you attain anything !
by sinecurve » Sun May 27, 2012 12:44 pm
If the person ever got married he/she would have dragged the marriage because of kids. Sexual fulfillment is there but not from marriage.
When I just taking my first baby steps in the world of Jyotishya, I had this impression that debilitation is the worst affliction that can affect a Graha. I harboured that thought in me and dismissed several charts that housed a debilitated graha until I came across Micheal Jordan's chart. His chart has 3 planets debilitated in the Navamsha and 2 planets debilitated in the Rashi chart. How on earth could be become the king of basketball when the lagna lord itself is debilitated?
But, over a period of time I began to realise that a debilitation is not such a bad affliction after all. In fact, in some cases, all other factors being equal, it is as good as a exalted planet. I have seen that people with a debilitated lagna lord, rise to dizzying heights, due to a fire in their belly to prove to the world that they are better than the best. Many people think that a debilitated 7th lord will result in disaster in a marriage. The above case will show that it is not the case. 3 debilitated planets in her chart, she is happily married for 24 years. How is that possible with a debilitated 7th lord, and a debilitated 1st rate malefic like Ketu in the 7th house? The answer to that is in the synastry and the excellent compatibility of the horoscopes. I shall post the chart of the spouse and show how a good match can give a happy married life.
Through hard work and spiritual practices, a person gets honor and dignity. The lazy one who puts in no efforts is like a fool who allows salt to be spilled on the wounds of his misfortunes. The idler depending only on fate, achieves nothing. - K.N.Rao ji
Debilitated planets certainly show different traits as compared to when well placed. Charlie Sheen has LL VE debilitated in 5H and he needs no introduction nor his venusian lifestyle.astroboy wrote:by sinecurve » Sun May 27, 2012 12:44 pm
If the person ever got married he/she would have dragged the marriage because of kids. Sexual fulfillment is there but not from marriage.
When I just taking my first baby steps in the world of Jyotishya, I had this impression that debilitation is the worst affliction that can affect a Graha. I harboured that thought in me and dismissed several charts that housed a debilitated graha until I came across Micheal Jordan's chart. His chart has 3 planets debilitated in the Navamsha and 2 planets debilitated in the Rashi chart. How on earth could be become the king of basketball when the lagna lord itself is debilitated?
But, over a period of time I began to realise that a debilitation is not such a bad affliction after all. In fact, in some cases, all other factors being equal, it is as good as a exalted planet. I have seen that people with a debilitated lagna lord, rise to dizzying heights, due to a fire in their belly to prove to the world that they are better than the best. Many people think that a debilitated 7th lord will result in disaster in a marriage. The above case will show that it is not the case. 3 debilitated planets in her chart, she is happily married for 24 years. How is that possible with a debilitated 7th lord, and a debilitated 1st rate malefic like Ketu in the 7th house? The answer to that is in the synastry and the excellent compatibility of the horoscopes. I shall post the chart of the spouse and show how a good match can give a happy married life.
She has her Lagna, SA, RA, MO in SA nakshtra which is placed in Lagna itself. Again Pushya or Anuradha need no introduction, and with exalted ME she will reveal only what she wants us to know...not even a bit more. She is pretty intelligent and smart lady and knows how to handle people around her.
Is she happily married because its in her chart OR because the charts were matched before marriage ?
The more I look at the chart the more interesting it gets. 7L placed in 11H (fulfillment of desires), between JU and ME both well placed and JU 2L/5L and ME exalted...she would have a pretty smart and intelligent husband as well. Highly benefic (both natural and functional) JU so close to 7L, actually her spouse might be well known in his circle and considered pious as well...not bad looking either ? I certainly dont see a great sex life for the couple and they might be living apart as well (or one of them traveling) ... and whatever she says I dont think shes happy with her husband / marriage. BUT she has extremely good JU both in D1 and D9 and that takes care of a lot of aspects...like overall happy life and her children will do great in life.
I cant wait to see husbands chart....it might be an interesting one too.
'वक्त से पहले और मुक़द्दर् से ज्यादा किसी को कुछ नहीं मिलता' - Neither before time nor beyond destiny, would you attain anything !
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Astroboy,
This was a case of "foreigners" who do not know choose or know about and use the tools of vedic astrology. We do not know for sure whether we are exercising fate or free will at any given point of time .....who knows and who is bothered about it ? we all act and react....
but to be a known hollywood actress out of millions is not a small thing, to be able to meet tom hanks is also not a small thing and to be married to him for 24 years in hollywood esp is i would believe a very very clear case of DESTINY......but the most intresting thing abt such marriages is that they can walk out anytime,temptation is everywhere beckoning its sultry fingers....so i would say the above is DESTINY,DESTINY and DESTINY only....as sinecurve has also explained using jupiter..since i do not have any posts to my name, i cannot see the charts posted
The proof of pudding of horoscope matching and its validity would be if you can give charts of two indians who know vedic astrology and inspite of everything the stars say would try to make a go of it by getting married ...relaxing one criteria even if the male knows astrology ,it would be enough.....but "true love" usually evaporates in front of the malefics and predicted unhappiness right
"Those whom the gods wish to destroy they first make mad." so true in the final analysis of life .....
thanks for your patience
Ila
This was a case of "foreigners" who do not know choose or know about and use the tools of vedic astrology. We do not know for sure whether we are exercising fate or free will at any given point of time .....who knows and who is bothered about it ? we all act and react....
but to be a known hollywood actress out of millions is not a small thing, to be able to meet tom hanks is also not a small thing and to be married to him for 24 years in hollywood esp is i would believe a very very clear case of DESTINY......but the most intresting thing abt such marriages is that they can walk out anytime,temptation is everywhere beckoning its sultry fingers....so i would say the above is DESTINY,DESTINY and DESTINY only....as sinecurve has also explained using jupiter..since i do not have any posts to my name, i cannot see the charts posted
The proof of pudding of horoscope matching and its validity would be if you can give charts of two indians who know vedic astrology and inspite of everything the stars say would try to make a go of it by getting married ...relaxing one criteria even if the male knows astrology ,it would be enough.....but "true love" usually evaporates in front of the malefics and predicted unhappiness right
"Those whom the gods wish to destroy they first make mad." so true in the final analysis of life .....
thanks for your patience
Ila
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Humannature
sinecurve wrote: Is she happily married because its in her chart OR because the charts were matched before marriage ?
Good question.
AB,
Do u think they matched their charts before marriage?
Of all the guys in the world, Tom Hanks ! I have seen most of his films...brilliant actor and an amazing personality in every respect. One guy who lives in the dirt without a single stain ...hollywood where the bad-boy syndrome is in the air but hes all clean. Pretty intense actor but seems so fragile, almost missing that manliness Hollywood is known for, the high testosterone level. So if we try to find the kind of spouse Rita Wilson will end up with...it has Tom Hanks written all over it.
My point here is that if someone else's chart defines how happy I would be in my relationships than no point in looking at solo charts....we have to look at all charts the person is related or associated with...
My 2 cents....
Will look at Tom Hanks chart tomorrow...way toooo drunk as of now.
'वक्त से पहले और मुक़द्दर् से ज्यादा किसी को कुछ नहीं मिलता' - Neither before time nor beyond destiny, would you attain anything !
It would have been nice if you people had commented after I finished analysing the two horoscopes. You people don't even know what point I want to put across. I would have uploaded all the images yesterday, But I have been encountering a lot of trouble uploading images. I finally figured it's got something to do with my Internet explorer, and not with the L.O.V.A. server. I am able to upload faster using Mozilla fire fox, but Internet explorer is giving me problems. I don't know why.
Anyway, why I chose to illustrate the lives of two holly wood actors is because, if there is ever a disease called separation and divorce, then Hollywood is the first victim. I want to show you why these two individuals escaped it. More importantly, I want to show you, how the planets aid in initial attraction, subsequent sustenance and provide nourishment to the relationship. I would have dismissed Rita Wilson's chart, and predicted disaster in her married life, and yet here she is, married for 24 long years. How could that be possible ? That was possible because of excellent synastry and excellent pourtham compatibility. That is exactly what i wanted to illustrate here. And one more point - even the "foreigners" are under the stars.
The 2nd reason why I have chosen to use Tom hanks as an example is because his life is well known. I do not want to use any data from my personal kitty, lest I be accused of presenting cases that suited my argument. It has happened in the past, I am not taking any chances again.
Both datas are accurate and are verified. Both are rodden AA rated.
we meet scores of people in our daily lives, but we do not establish the same kind of bonding with all. Hanks was married to American actress Samantha Lewes from 1978 to 1987. while filming a movie titled "Volunteers" (1985 - 1986), Hanks developed a romantic interest with Rita wilson while still being married to Samantha Lewes. We can only speculate if Rita was indirectly responsible for Hanks divorce. Rita on the other hand broke her engagement and went on to marry Tom Hanks in 1988. What was the catalyst that fueled the romance and marriage?
Anyway, why I chose to illustrate the lives of two holly wood actors is because, if there is ever a disease called separation and divorce, then Hollywood is the first victim. I want to show you why these two individuals escaped it. More importantly, I want to show you, how the planets aid in initial attraction, subsequent sustenance and provide nourishment to the relationship. I would have dismissed Rita Wilson's chart, and predicted disaster in her married life, and yet here she is, married for 24 long years. How could that be possible ? That was possible because of excellent synastry and excellent pourtham compatibility. That is exactly what i wanted to illustrate here. And one more point - even the "foreigners" are under the stars.
The 2nd reason why I have chosen to use Tom hanks as an example is because his life is well known. I do not want to use any data from my personal kitty, lest I be accused of presenting cases that suited my argument. It has happened in the past, I am not taking any chances again.
Both datas are accurate and are verified. Both are rodden AA rated.
we meet scores of people in our daily lives, but we do not establish the same kind of bonding with all. Hanks was married to American actress Samantha Lewes from 1978 to 1987. while filming a movie titled "Volunteers" (1985 - 1986), Hanks developed a romantic interest with Rita wilson while still being married to Samantha Lewes. We can only speculate if Rita was indirectly responsible for Hanks divorce. Rita on the other hand broke her engagement and went on to marry Tom Hanks in 1988. What was the catalyst that fueled the romance and marriage?
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Through hard work and spiritual practices, a person gets honor and dignity. The lazy one who puts in no efforts is like a fool who allows salt to be spilled on the wounds of his misfortunes. The idler depending only on fate, achieves nothing. - K.N.Rao ji
In their magnum opus titled "Light on relationships", Hart de fouw and Dr Robert Svoboda, illustrate how Grahas can aid in promoting and nourishing relationships. (Every self respecting enthusiast of astrology should own and read this book. I have to accept that it is not a easy task to grasp it's content, But nothing Good comes easy in life. This book is a must have and a must read)
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Through hard work and spiritual practices, a person gets honor and dignity. The lazy one who puts in no efforts is like a fool who allows salt to be spilled on the wounds of his misfortunes. The idler depending only on fate, achieves nothing. - K.N.Rao ji
Now look at the synastry between Rita wilson and Tom Hanks horoscope.
6 planets are in a 1/1 relationship thus making them associates with each other,
2 planets are in a 5 / 9 relationship thus making them active supporters to each other,
1 planet is in a 4/10 relationship thus making them contrasting to each other.
Is it any suprise that they are together for 24 years? excellent synastry between their horoscopes cancelled out all the afflictions of Rita wilson's 7th house. Now let us see the Pourttham compatability.
6 planets are in a 1/1 relationship thus making them associates with each other,
2 planets are in a 5 / 9 relationship thus making them active supporters to each other,
1 planet is in a 4/10 relationship thus making them contrasting to each other.
Is it any suprise that they are together for 24 years? excellent synastry between their horoscopes cancelled out all the afflictions of Rita wilson's 7th house. Now let us see the Pourttham compatability.
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Through hard work and spiritual practices, a person gets honor and dignity. The lazy one who puts in no efforts is like a fool who allows salt to be spilled on the wounds of his misfortunes. The idler depending only on fate, achieves nothing. - K.N.Rao ji
Chaos, here is your answer, I have enclosed both the traditional Guna Milan score and the Poruttham score for you to compare.
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Through hard work and spiritual practices, a person gets honor and dignity. The lazy one who puts in no efforts is like a fool who allows salt to be spilled on the wounds of his misfortunes. The idler depending only on fate, achieves nothing. - K.N.Rao ji
N.S. Dahiya ji, a member of this forum, and an author of the excellent book titled ""your stars and married life"" has chosen to discount matching horoscopes using the Guna Milan system. One of his contentions was that the Moon was the only Graha which was given importance, while the rest of the 8 Grahas were ignored.
In chapter 17 part 1 page No 211 N.S. Dahiya ji makes the following observations, among others,
[attachment=1]T.C. 81 7082 - 093 - 6.JPG[/attachment]
Just think about this with a open mind. We assess a horoscope by counting the Bhavas from the Ascendent. Some even count the Bhavas from the ascendent degree. All factors of the horoscope are delineated from the Lagna, ........... and yet, we start the dasha sequence from the Moon. 99 Pct of us use the Vimsottari dasha system, and 99 Pct of us, start the dasha sequence from the Degree of the Moon. If the delivery of every bhava's results are timed from the Moon, I don't see what the problem is in using the Moon as a cornerstone to match horoscopes.
Point 2 - do we assess the Paksha of the Moon when we assess the dasha scheme? No matter if the Moon is debilitated, or debilitated in Amavasya at Three degrees in Scorpio, The vimshottari dasha will still start in Guru dasha due to the Nakshatra being Vishakha which is ruled by Guru. Do we assess the condition of Chandra when we assess the dasha results ?
I have said time and again, Chandra as a Graha, is the be all and end all of the horoscope. It is plain and simple knowledge that it is a must that a fair assessment be made of all the Grahas, specially Chandra before we proceed to match a chart.
Dr Svoboda and Hart de fouw have this to say in regard to the importance of the Moon in a horoscope,
Just for the heck of it, I have enclosed below the Guna Milan score of all the Grahas in Rita wilson and Tom hanks chart. Take a look at the score below,
Next we shall assess Tom Hanks horoscope and see why He had a divorce, before finding success in his 2nd marriage.
In chapter 17 part 1 page No 211 N.S. Dahiya ji makes the following observations, among others,
[attachment=1]T.C. 81 7082 - 093 - 6.JPG[/attachment]
Just think about this with a open mind. We assess a horoscope by counting the Bhavas from the Ascendent. Some even count the Bhavas from the ascendent degree. All factors of the horoscope are delineated from the Lagna, ........... and yet, we start the dasha sequence from the Moon. 99 Pct of us use the Vimsottari dasha system, and 99 Pct of us, start the dasha sequence from the Degree of the Moon. If the delivery of every bhava's results are timed from the Moon, I don't see what the problem is in using the Moon as a cornerstone to match horoscopes.
Point 2 - do we assess the Paksha of the Moon when we assess the dasha scheme? No matter if the Moon is debilitated, or debilitated in Amavasya at Three degrees in Scorpio, The vimshottari dasha will still start in Guru dasha due to the Nakshatra being Vishakha which is ruled by Guru. Do we assess the condition of Chandra when we assess the dasha results ?
I have said time and again, Chandra as a Graha, is the be all and end all of the horoscope. It is plain and simple knowledge that it is a must that a fair assessment be made of all the Grahas, specially Chandra before we proceed to match a chart.
Dr Svoboda and Hart de fouw have this to say in regard to the importance of the Moon in a horoscope,
Just for the heck of it, I have enclosed below the Guna Milan score of all the Grahas in Rita wilson and Tom hanks chart. Take a look at the score below,Next we shall assess Tom Hanks horoscope and see why He had a divorce, before finding success in his 2nd marriage.
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Through hard work and spiritual practices, a person gets honor and dignity. The lazy one who puts in no efforts is like a fool who allows salt to be spilled on the wounds of his misfortunes. The idler depending only on fate, achieves nothing. - K.N.Rao ji
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Humannature
Hello AB,
Great analysis.
Sometime back when I looked at two people's charts(both close to me) born in the same year and few months apart, I was very excited to see that some planets were in the exact same houses and with the same excitement I said the same to one of the astrologers here who said, 'Millions of people have that. So what? not a big deal'
Later on I understood that people born in the same year will usually have all the slow moving planets in the same houses.
So if each person marries another one born in same year with very few months apart, then there will be all happy marriages?
But please do tell if you think they planned and matched their charts before wedding or if it was destiny that brought them together and got them married?
Another female member of this forum said many times that she and her husband have many planets in 6/8 and 2/12 relationship and she says she has a very good married life so not to worry about 6/8 relationships. How can that be explained?
Great analysis.
Sometime back when I looked at two people's charts(both close to me) born in the same year and few months apart, I was very excited to see that some planets were in the exact same houses and with the same excitement I said the same to one of the astrologers here who said, 'Millions of people have that. So what? not a big deal'
Later on I understood that people born in the same year will usually have all the slow moving planets in the same houses.
So if each person marries another one born in same year with very few months apart, then there will be all happy marriages?
But please do tell if you think they planned and matched their charts before wedding or if it was destiny that brought them together and got them married?
Another female member of this forum said many times that she and her husband have many planets in 6/8 and 2/12 relationship and she says she has a very good married life so not to worry about 6/8 relationships. How can that be explained?
Astroboy,
i am not discounting horoscope matching or any thing..my point of contention is that we as Indians have very easy access to a tool called Vedic Astrology..we can use it to understand our life and our patterns in life and thus decode our thinking and emotional minds....but but....
i have read that in the earlier times Jyotish was only used for assessing spiritual shortcomings and for improvement in that area...
We revere 2 classics, the Ramayana and Mahabharata...in both of these no mention is made of horoscope matching for marriage....krishna abducts rukmini and marries her ....arjuna marries draupadi by winning the test again, rama marries sita by passing the test that has been put forth by janaka....and every couple that is venerated and held up as symbol of love, where is the horoscope matching
every classic and puran in India worth its name is full of love and lust ...love at first sight and struggles to get it....and then marries irrespective of every obstacle...
It is only in wars that explictly muhurats are even mentioned..now we can argue that krishna and rama were gods and that they married lakshmi in one form or another....but that is just that ..an argument....
As society changed so did the way in which marriages were held also changed...power,money and resources should never go out of the community....and what is one tool which can strike fear in everybody's mind ?
Astrology.....
There is an example given in Light of Relationships where in Svoboda and DeFouw examines a western married woman's chart and finds that she has yogas and excellent horoscope than her partner...it is said as a validation of the reading that she gets impregnated by a rich paramour within an year and then divorces and marries her lover and lives a life aligned with the promise of her horoscope...
if the reading was requested by the woman and she heard it, i sometimes wonder whether that reading was the reason why all these happened so fast.........all the sub conscious choices..the stars have foretold it right so i am just following it and THAT IS OK , is it ????
as an aside, "True love " does not exist and if it does , maybe Hollywood is THE place to keep the tradition alive....the SWARG of the earth... long live !!!!!
btw, commendable work done by you...time and effort required to do such quality analysis and most imp knowledge sharing , day in and out for the past 2 years is immense.....kudos....
Ila
i am not discounting horoscope matching or any thing..my point of contention is that we as Indians have very easy access to a tool called Vedic Astrology..we can use it to understand our life and our patterns in life and thus decode our thinking and emotional minds....but but....
i have read that in the earlier times Jyotish was only used for assessing spiritual shortcomings and for improvement in that area...
We revere 2 classics, the Ramayana and Mahabharata...in both of these no mention is made of horoscope matching for marriage....krishna abducts rukmini and marries her ....arjuna marries draupadi by winning the test again, rama marries sita by passing the test that has been put forth by janaka....and every couple that is venerated and held up as symbol of love, where is the horoscope matching
every classic and puran in India worth its name is full of love and lust ...love at first sight and struggles to get it....and then marries irrespective of every obstacle...
It is only in wars that explictly muhurats are even mentioned..now we can argue that krishna and rama were gods and that they married lakshmi in one form or another....but that is just that ..an argument....
As society changed so did the way in which marriages were held also changed...power,money and resources should never go out of the community....and what is one tool which can strike fear in everybody's mind ?
Astrology.....
There is an example given in Light of Relationships where in Svoboda and DeFouw examines a western married woman's chart and finds that she has yogas and excellent horoscope than her partner...it is said as a validation of the reading that she gets impregnated by a rich paramour within an year and then divorces and marries her lover and lives a life aligned with the promise of her horoscope...
if the reading was requested by the woman and she heard it, i sometimes wonder whether that reading was the reason why all these happened so fast.........all the sub conscious choices..the stars have foretold it right so i am just following it and THAT IS OK , is it ????
as an aside, "True love " does not exist and if it does , maybe Hollywood is THE place to keep the tradition alive....the SWARG of the earth... long live !!!!!
btw, commendable work done by you...time and effort required to do such quality analysis and most imp knowledge sharing , day in and out for the past 2 years is immense.....kudos....
Ila
"Millions of people have that no big deal" is correct. But what is the percentage of people who marry in the same age group? Indians have a fixation that the girl should be younger to the boy by at least 3-5 years. some communities maintain a bigger gap. How many people in the west marry in the same age group ? I dont say there are no instances of that having happened. In fact, the instances of women being elder to the man is also a possibility But it is a small percentage. I once again come back to the question - how many marriages have you seen where people are married in the same age group - that too 6 months apart ?by Humannature » Mon May 28, 2012 10:31 pm
Sometime back when I looked at two people's charts(both close to me) born in the same year and few months apart, I was very excited to see that some planets were in the exact same houses and with the same excitement I said the same to one of the astrologers here who said, 'Millions of people have that. So what? not a big deal'
Later on I understood that people born in the same year will usually have all the slow moving planets in the same houses.
So if each person marries another one born in same year with very few months apart, then there will be all happy marriages?
The astrologer (I wonder if i should be calling him a astrologer at all) who you spoke to must be ignorant on the benefits of a good synastry.
Having said that, Synastry alone will not be able to carry the burden and stresses of a marriage if the Pouratthams do not match. The Moon is an all important component in matters related to marriage. Another important point is the quality of the Moon's nakshatra. In the case of Rita and Tom, Pushya happens to be the Janma Nakshatra for both. Pushya has a peculiar quality, Pushya people have a strong tendency to nurture physically emotionally or mentally. Rita Wilson's Moon is unafflicted by any Malefic, and is in his own house. The same is applicable to Tom's Moon. (However note the afflictions to the Moon in the Navamsha for both). Life can never be a bed of roses 24/7 365 days of the year.
It goes without saying that the 2nd, 4th, 7th, 8th, and the 12th house have to be strong to sustain marriage.
I don't know if they matched charts. Neither can I confirm, nor deny it. Talking about destiny, If we for a moment were to consider that Rita wilson was indeed destined to be his wife, could the two have got married if they sat in their respective homes, and waiting for each other to drop in through the roof, her, in her Gown, brides maids, and the page boys in tow, and him, with the best man, and wedding ring? Think about it.But please do tell if you think they planned and matched their charts before wedding or if it was destiny that brought them together and got them married?
Through hard work and spiritual practices, a person gets honor and dignity. The lazy one who puts in no efforts is like a fool who allows salt to be spilled on the wounds of his misfortunes. The idler depending only on fate, achieves nothing. - K.N.Rao ji
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milredr
Hi HN,Another female member of this forum said many times that she and her husband have many planets in 6/8 and 2/12 relationship and she says she has a very good married life so not to worry about 6/8 relationships. How can that be explained?
Good to c u on the forum. From Deepak's post what i infer is that if the Synastery is strong, there is instant attraction and its also one of the factors which aid a good marriage along with the lords of the houses he has mentioned and the guna milan. Synastery is not the be all and end all for a good marriage.
If we are talking about the same female, well let me tell you the initial attraction was zilch. They fell in love over a period of time. There were no instant sparks. The natures are very different, views on most of the matters are different, the way its handled is also different. However with the regards to the bigger and the important issues of life there is absolute agreement. Also i would like to point out that their sun is in a 7/7 relationship. Guess they were soul mates
I am not so learned as other people here and have not read as many books on astrology. Perhaps what I will write may not make much sense or feel convincing enough as I don't have any thing to back me me up.
I think its wrong to conclude that 'pre-destined' and 'remedies' are mutually exclusive concepts. They are concordant.
When does one seek a remedy? That would be when one is plagued by a problem or what one perceives to be a problem. A majority of problems of our lives are solved or attenuated by a change in our own perspective or attitudes. Lets say, I am anxious and distraught about something, for eg. my husband is verbally abusive, or insults me in front of others, or is insensitive. I seek a remedy from an astrologer and that could come in many forms such as a gemstone, a mantra, a seva recommendation. What happens when I walk out of that place?
My point of view has shifted, minutely or dramatically, depending on my level of belief on that astrologer. I have been either reassured or further aggravated. Either way I have been told the remedy can solve my problem. By believing more, I shift my perspective towards the problem to a more positive one, that changes how I react to it, or how I take it, how big it looks to me and that changes my general temperament for the day/subsequent days/months (again depending on how amenable I am)
For eg. I have dealt with difficult people and reacted aggressively. Then I have taken a step back and calmed myself, and handled it with restraint subsequently. From my point of view, that 'problem' changed when 'I' changed. But it was still pre-destined that that difficult person will come into my life. That the difficult person will teach me a thing or two about myself.
And all this talk of pre-destined vs active matching really ignores, belittles the power of love. Maybe that kind of love is hard to find but I don't think it is right to dismiss it just because you see it rarely. Love is powerful and love forgives. Of course I am not talking about forgiving physically violent people from close quarters. But for most other things in life, just forgiving someone works wonderfully. It is sometimes the hardest thing to do, because it is the tallest peak to surmount.
Who you marry is pre-destined. And if I want to know about it that does not automatically make the first statement redundant. I can want to know about it so I can be better prepared. Personally, if someone tells me my husband 'will be' a lazy person or a person prone to philandering, I am not going to run from pillar to post to find someone who looks industrious or morally upright. I am going to buckle up and prepare for a tough road ahead which is ultimately meant to teach me something.
Of course if someone tells me my husband will kill me, I will try to postpone it till I can.
You could get the best match in the world and ruin it, with your ego, or critical judgment. Or you could get a grossly poor match and imbibe things like forgiveness, selflessness, love, letting go and make it shine in the dirt. If you use astrology for prediction and then try to claim you can completely undo the prediction you are just trapping yourself in a simple paradox.
What one remedies, viewed objectively, is not the actuals, one remedies ones own point of view.
I think its wrong to conclude that 'pre-destined' and 'remedies' are mutually exclusive concepts. They are concordant.
When does one seek a remedy? That would be when one is plagued by a problem or what one perceives to be a problem. A majority of problems of our lives are solved or attenuated by a change in our own perspective or attitudes. Lets say, I am anxious and distraught about something, for eg. my husband is verbally abusive, or insults me in front of others, or is insensitive. I seek a remedy from an astrologer and that could come in many forms such as a gemstone, a mantra, a seva recommendation. What happens when I walk out of that place?
My point of view has shifted, minutely or dramatically, depending on my level of belief on that astrologer. I have been either reassured or further aggravated. Either way I have been told the remedy can solve my problem. By believing more, I shift my perspective towards the problem to a more positive one, that changes how I react to it, or how I take it, how big it looks to me and that changes my general temperament for the day/subsequent days/months (again depending on how amenable I am)
For eg. I have dealt with difficult people and reacted aggressively. Then I have taken a step back and calmed myself, and handled it with restraint subsequently. From my point of view, that 'problem' changed when 'I' changed. But it was still pre-destined that that difficult person will come into my life. That the difficult person will teach me a thing or two about myself.
And all this talk of pre-destined vs active matching really ignores, belittles the power of love. Maybe that kind of love is hard to find but I don't think it is right to dismiss it just because you see it rarely. Love is powerful and love forgives. Of course I am not talking about forgiving physically violent people from close quarters. But for most other things in life, just forgiving someone works wonderfully. It is sometimes the hardest thing to do, because it is the tallest peak to surmount.
Who you marry is pre-destined. And if I want to know about it that does not automatically make the first statement redundant. I can want to know about it so I can be better prepared. Personally, if someone tells me my husband 'will be' a lazy person or a person prone to philandering, I am not going to run from pillar to post to find someone who looks industrious or morally upright. I am going to buckle up and prepare for a tough road ahead which is ultimately meant to teach me something.
Of course if someone tells me my husband will kill me, I will try to postpone it till I can.
You could get the best match in the world and ruin it, with your ego, or critical judgment. Or you could get a grossly poor match and imbibe things like forgiveness, selflessness, love, letting go and make it shine in the dirt. If you use astrology for prediction and then try to claim you can completely undo the prediction you are just trapping yourself in a simple paradox.
What one remedies, viewed objectively, is not the actuals, one remedies ones own point of view.
" Talking about destiny, If we for a moment were to consider that Rita wilson was indeed destined to be his wife, could the two have got married if they sat in their respective homes, and waiting for each other to drop in through the roof, her, in her Gown, brides maids, and the page boys in tow, and him, with the best man, and wedding ring? Think about it. "
I have always thought that the logical fallacy in such arguments rests on just one thing....isolation of just one factor and magnifying it to prove a point .... ...
Here by extension of your logic Astroboy,they should not have studied,had a career ,should not have gotten serious with other people and even had baths and lunches and whatnot.....by jove no grooming also till rita and tom met each other ....
but it did not happen like that right..they have behaved like humans and have led a life singly and after that as a couple in the eyes of society....so according to their nature, the desires,the will and the drive that have been given to them by their natures,they have lived a life....and reaped the rewards and punishments of it....
in the end,my only contention as always is that the analytical tool should not be allowed to rule over what is known as the beauty of life
anyways .....
Ila
I have always thought that the logical fallacy in such arguments rests on just one thing....isolation of just one factor and magnifying it to prove a point .... ...
Here by extension of your logic Astroboy,they should not have studied,had a career ,should not have gotten serious with other people and even had baths and lunches and whatnot.....by jove no grooming also
till rita and tom met each other ....but it did not happen like that right..they have behaved like humans and have led a life singly and after that as a couple in the eyes of society....so according to their nature, the desires,the will and the drive that have been given to them by their natures,they have lived a life....and reaped the rewards and punishments of it....
in the end,my only contention as always is that the analytical tool should not be allowed to rule over what is known as the beauty of life
anyways .....
Ila
You manifest remedies in literate and rational way, in which case remedies do work.CLOST wrote:I am not so learned as other people here and have not read as many books on astrology. Perhaps what I will write may not make much sense or feel convincing enough as I don't have any thing to back me me up.
I think its wrong to conclude that 'pre-destined' and 'remedies' are mutually exclusive concepts. They are concordant.
When does one seek a remedy? That would be when one is plagued by a problem or what one perceives to be a problem. A majority of problems of our lives are solved or attenuated by a change in our own perspective or attitudes. Lets say, I am anxious and distraught about something, for eg. my husband is verbally abusive, or insults me in front of others, or is insensitive. I seek a remedy from an astrologer and that could come in many forms such as a gemstone, a mantra, a seva recommendation. What happens when I walk out of that place?
My point of view has shifted, minutely or dramatically, depending on my level of belief on that astrologer. I have been either reassured or further aggravated. Either way I have been told the remedy can solve my problem. By believing more, I shift my perspective towards the problem to a more positive one, that changes how I react to it, or how I take it, how big it looks to me and that changes my general temperament for the day/subsequent days/months (again depending on how amenable I am)
For eg. I have dealt with difficult people and reacted aggressively. Then I have taken a step back and calmed myself, and handled it with restraint subsequently. From my point of view, that 'problem' changed when 'I' changed. But it was still pre-destined that that difficult person will come into my life. That the difficult person will teach me a thing or two about myself.
And all this talk of pre-destined vs active matching really ignores, belittles the power of love. Maybe that kind of love is hard to find but I don't think it is right to dismiss it just because you see it rarely. Love is powerful and love forgives. Of course I am not talking about forgiving physically violent people from close quarters. But for most other things in life, just forgiving someone works wonderfully. It is sometimes the hardest thing to do, because it is the tallest peak to surmount.
Who you marry is pre-destined. And if I want to know about it that does not automatically make the first statement redundant. I can want to know about it so I can be better prepared. Personally, if someone tells me my husband 'will be' a lazy person or a person prone to philandering, I am not going to run from pillar to post to find someone who looks industrious or morally upright. I am going to buckle up and prepare for a tough road ahead which is ultimately meant to teach me something.
Of course if someone tells me my husband will kill me, I will try to postpone it till I can.
You could get the best match in the world and ruin it, with your ego, or critical judgment. Or you could get a grossly poor match and imbibe things like forgiveness, selflessness, love, letting go and make it shine in the dirt. If you use astrology for prediction and then try to claim you can completely undo the prediction you are just trapping yourself in a simple paradox.
What one remedies, viewed objectively, is not the actuals, one remedies ones own point of view.
Who can ignore the power of Mantras, meditation or self-realization ...it could do miracles. But these miracles happen ONLY on a spiritual plane. Remedies DO NOT work for materialistic benefits.
Love, success, happiness...pretty subjective terms. Forget what the world thinks, our own perception of Love changes during different stages of life. About the grossly poor match part, Get a mannequin and try to love it with all forgiveness and selflessness and whatever...Cant do it ? why ? Its because our emotions need to feed on something to survive. Isnt that what a relationship is all 'bout ?
Ila, I loved reading your post. Keep it up !
'वक्त से पहले और मुक़द्दर् से ज्यादा किसी को कुछ नहीं मिलता' - Neither before time nor beyond destiny, would you attain anything !
A person should not be too honest. Straight trees are cut first and honest people are screwed first.
“Reasoning with a drunkard is like
Going under water with a torch to seek for a drowning man.”
“Reasoning with a drunkard is like
Going under water with a torch to seek for a drowning man.”
