DEAR FRIENDS
WHAT ABOUT FIRST STARTING POST ON THIS TRED? ABOUT KETU IN 12TH TO KARAKAMSA?
BROADLY,KETU IN 12TH TO LAGNA OR KETU IN 12TH TO KARAKAMSA(in D9),OUT OF THESE TWO,WHICH ONE IS STRONG TO CONFIRM DICTUM, SAYING THAT KETU IN 12TH LEADS TO MOKSHA?
I think rest of all our learned people like ASTRO BOY,ASTRO SONU ,SRIKANTH ,RAMANAN etc sir's not showing their vision on this...
i am requesting all to give their valuable notes on this.....
best regards....
Ketu in 12th=moksha
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hibobbbob22u wrote:please could anyone explain what is KARAKAMSA?
is D9 the ninth house?)
what is DICTUM?
KARAKAMSA MEANS THE SIGN OCCUPIED BY ATMA KARAKA IN D9(As per my knowledge)..
and DICTUM means the principle of astrology stated by classics or by some other reference..
hope this helps..
regards....
vairagya ji
i am afraid you got your facts wrong. unlike Budha or Ramakrishan Paramahamsa, Ramana Maharishi did not require any efforts for Self realisation. In fact his childhood was very normal until the day the realisation happened when he was 16. If we go by what he describes, it took him less than the time required to climb a horse(!). What you are referring to is what happened after his realisation. He was so deeply absorbed in the Self at Pathalalingam in Arunachaleswara temple, Tiruvannamalai that he was not aware of insect bites to his body nor was he taking food for days together. So it begs the question, what was responsible for this? How was a boy of 16 who had not done long years of rigourous tapas able to realise the ultimate in a jiffy which takes others(the rare few) many rebirths?
What lovacrs has suggested is a very systematic astrological approach to the issue of moksha:
"it will be good to analyse the astrological requirements along the following 3 dmensions:
1. Factors that lead to desire on the part of the native for moksha - This may indicate what efforts he will put in (exercise of what he thinks is his "free will")
2. Factors that enable fructification (fate's free will!) - This may be with or without effort. Some people get results without efforts while many toil and dont.
3. Factors that enable happiness to the native from all this (divine blessings) - This may again be independent of the other two. Some are happy after getting what they wanted while others may realize that it is not as good as they thought it to be."
Here is his birth data in case one of the learned members would like to analyse: 30.12.1879, 1.00 am, Madurai(it is the biggest city near his birth place)
i am afraid you got your facts wrong. unlike Budha or Ramakrishan Paramahamsa, Ramana Maharishi did not require any efforts for Self realisation. In fact his childhood was very normal until the day the realisation happened when he was 16. If we go by what he describes, it took him less than the time required to climb a horse(!). What you are referring to is what happened after his realisation. He was so deeply absorbed in the Self at Pathalalingam in Arunachaleswara temple, Tiruvannamalai that he was not aware of insect bites to his body nor was he taking food for days together. So it begs the question, what was responsible for this? How was a boy of 16 who had not done long years of rigourous tapas able to realise the ultimate in a jiffy which takes others(the rare few) many rebirths?
What lovacrs has suggested is a very systematic astrological approach to the issue of moksha:
"it will be good to analyse the astrological requirements along the following 3 dmensions:
1. Factors that lead to desire on the part of the native for moksha - This may indicate what efforts he will put in (exercise of what he thinks is his "free will")
2. Factors that enable fructification (fate's free will!) - This may be with or without effort. Some people get results without efforts while many toil and dont.
3. Factors that enable happiness to the native from all this (divine blessings) - This may again be independent of the other two. Some are happy after getting what they wanted while others may realize that it is not as good as they thought it to be."
Here is his birth data in case one of the learned members would like to analyse: 30.12.1879, 1.00 am, Madurai(it is the biggest city near his birth place)
Nothing is free except God's Grace.
Kandhanji:
"Ramana Maharishi did not require any efforts for Self realisation. In fact his childhood was very normal until the day the realisation happened when he was 16. If we go by what he describes, it took him less than the time required to climb a horse(!)."
Yes...you are absolutely true. I have told in this forum regarding this upteen times. When, it will happen, it will happen in a jiff no matter wherever u are and in which place u are and no matter what u are doing. The rest are all a process or a way to be embraced by it. The process means in itself does not guarantee one that state. It can happen or it may not happen at the pure discretion of his willingness to suck u up. Though, the enquiry should be continued as a process.
I have absolutely no understanding from "where one got the understanding of doing Tapas for realization"? Tapas is more or less like meditation and doing chanting name or mantra of god by having deep concentration, but again it has nothing to do with realization. Only thing required is that one should be a true seeker of the wisdom which lies within u. That's all required and keep self-enquiry on till time u get embraced. This even Ramana Bhagwan has told many times.
Even my manasik Guru Nochur Venkataraman, an ardent knower of Ramana Bhagwan, got enlightened in a jiff like Ramana Bhagwan at a tender age, though for him as well, the enquiry was on for long long years.
Regards
Narayanan
"Ramana Maharishi did not require any efforts for Self realisation. In fact his childhood was very normal until the day the realisation happened when he was 16. If we go by what he describes, it took him less than the time required to climb a horse(!)."
Yes...you are absolutely true. I have told in this forum regarding this upteen times. When, it will happen, it will happen in a jiff no matter wherever u are and in which place u are and no matter what u are doing. The rest are all a process or a way to be embraced by it. The process means in itself does not guarantee one that state. It can happen or it may not happen at the pure discretion of his willingness to suck u up. Though, the enquiry should be continued as a process.
I have absolutely no understanding from "where one got the understanding of doing Tapas for realization"? Tapas is more or less like meditation and doing chanting name or mantra of god by having deep concentration, but again it has nothing to do with realization. Only thing required is that one should be a true seeker of the wisdom which lies within u. That's all required and keep self-enquiry on till time u get embraced. This even Ramana Bhagwan has told many times.
Even my manasik Guru Nochur Venkataraman, an ardent knower of Ramana Bhagwan, got enlightened in a jiff like Ramana Bhagwan at a tender age, though for him as well, the enquiry was on for long long years.
Regards
Narayanan
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Khoo Hock Leong
- Frequent Contributor
- Posts: 7758
- Joined: 03 Jan 2009
Hi
Just wanted to clarify something I made in an earlier post when I said that 12th from Ketu gives more powerful occult proficiency than if Ketu is placed in the 12th House from Lagna.
I made the original remark because I felt that Ketu is a shadowy planet whereas Lagna is more tied with material manifestation of things. Since occult deals with seeing through all levels of the material planes to get into the heart of the matter, my contention was that 12th to Ketu give more occult prowess than Ketu in the 12th. But after thinking through, I feel both give the same results. The 12th house is the only in the Rasi chart where material manifestations get dissolve. So Ketu in the 12th house to Lagna is just as powerful. But when we take planets as Ascendants like Ketu, we can usually combine with other planets as Ascendants like the 4th of Moon when combined with 12th of Ketu give highly spiritual (and also occult powers) persons, hence the effects SEEM to be greater only. This point of looking for spiritual persons was highlighted by Mr. Dinesh Mathur.
Astrologers usually take any connotation of 12th house with Ketu as indicating spirituality including Moksha, but occult powers work on the same principle - to be able to see through or separate oneself from the material planets. It is synonymous actually.
Warmest Regards
Hock Leong
Just wanted to clarify something I made in an earlier post when I said that 12th from Ketu gives more powerful occult proficiency than if Ketu is placed in the 12th House from Lagna.
I made the original remark because I felt that Ketu is a shadowy planet whereas Lagna is more tied with material manifestation of things. Since occult deals with seeing through all levels of the material planes to get into the heart of the matter, my contention was that 12th to Ketu give more occult prowess than Ketu in the 12th. But after thinking through, I feel both give the same results. The 12th house is the only in the Rasi chart where material manifestations get dissolve. So Ketu in the 12th house to Lagna is just as powerful. But when we take planets as Ascendants like Ketu, we can usually combine with other planets as Ascendants like the 4th of Moon when combined with 12th of Ketu give highly spiritual (and also occult powers) persons, hence the effects SEEM to be greater only. This point of looking for spiritual persons was highlighted by Mr. Dinesh Mathur.
Astrologers usually take any connotation of 12th house with Ketu as indicating spirituality including Moksha, but occult powers work on the same principle - to be able to see through or separate oneself from the material planets. It is synonymous actually.
Warmest Regards
Hock Leong
I too have Ketu in the 12th from Atmakaraka Moon in Navamsha.
And Ketu is further aspected by Jupiter from 6th house. Jupiter is in good strength in his own house Pisces. But I don't think I am anyway near moksha.
Moreover Jupiter is in his own Navamsa (Pisces) and exalted but in 12th in Shashtyamsa. Somewhere I read that this means I am omniscient. Again, feel like something is missing. There must be some other factors that need to be taken into account.
My birth parameters for your reference :
Date - 06th September 1976
Time - 14:40 i.e 2:40 pm
Place - Nagercoil, Tamil Nadu
I have used Jagannath Hora to erect the chart.
And Ketu is further aspected by Jupiter from 6th house. Jupiter is in good strength in his own house Pisces. But I don't think I am anyway near moksha.
Moreover Jupiter is in his own Navamsa (Pisces) and exalted but in 12th in Shashtyamsa. Somewhere I read that this means I am omniscient. Again, feel like something is missing. There must be some other factors that need to be taken into account.
My birth parameters for your reference :
Date - 06th September 1976
Time - 14:40 i.e 2:40 pm
Place - Nagercoil, Tamil Nadu
I have used Jagannath Hora to erect the chart.
DEAR FRIENDS
WHAT ABOUT FIRST STARTING POST ON THIS TRED? ABOUT KETU IN 12TH TO KARAKAMSA?
BROADLY,KETU IN 12TH TO LAGNA OR KETU IN 12TH TO KARAKAMSA(in D9),OUT OF THESE TWO,WHICH ONE IS STRONG TO CONFIRM DICTUM, SAYING THAT KETU IN 12TH LEADS TO MOKSHA?
I think rest of all our learned people like ASTRO BOY,ASTRO SONU ,SRIKANTH ,RAMANAN etc sir's not showing their vision on this...
i am requesting all to give their valuable notes on this.....
best regards....
Dear Hari ji:
I came to know one person at Chennai who got Prathyaksha Darshan of Mother Mookambika in 2003 or 2004 and his name is Hari something. He is helping the needy and poor and downtrodden as per the instructions of mother at free. I am in search of that holy person, but could not locate him as of yet neither I have any whereabouts of him. I just wanted to confirm whether it is you or somebody else, that's all.
You may please PM me.
Regards
Narayanan
I came to know one person at Chennai who got Prathyaksha Darshan of Mother Mookambika in 2003 or 2004 and his name is Hari something. He is helping the needy and poor and downtrodden as per the instructions of mother at free. I am in search of that holy person, but could not locate him as of yet neither I have any whereabouts of him. I just wanted to confirm whether it is you or somebody else, that's all.
You may please PM me.
Regards
Narayanan
dear hariharih wrote:I too have Ketu in the 12th from Atmakaraka Moon in Navamsha.
But I don't think I am anyway near moksha.
i dont know how is ur peception about MOKSHA,it varies and depends on various forms of existance and devine experiences,and it may not be an essential factor that somebody who destined to get the hand of MOKSHA KANYA,will have to be in the path from childhood or some other age.ITs all depends up on previous efforts percentage which bring result in this life either at early stage or at later stage.It may happen suddenly also to somebody and it may come on pracise to somebody.again this depends on our previous lives practise,I believe.
so,12th KETU in NAVAMSA(i mean karakamsa)may put U one day on the door step of MOKSHA LAKSHMI.who knows?For that day,(if it is there)life will take its own turn and take u to show that sky(CHIDAKASA)..
BUT as you said,i think apart from this factor ,all other considerations also we must take to persue about this..
ANY WAY,the natives who are having this may be spriritualistic in the nature I believe(what about U)?
OUR ALL SENIORS SHOULD PUT THEIR EYE ON THIS....
best regards.....
Hi friends
My DOB is 25.11.1977 time 05.20am place chandigarh my ketu is alone in 6th house & rahu alone in 12th house with jupiter alone in 9th house . can anyone please tell me what is the spiritual potential in my chart ? M already sprtuly inclined but wonder if I will attain any thing mngful sprtuly in this birth . please help !
Regards
A
My DOB is 25.11.1977 time 05.20am place chandigarh my ketu is alone in 6th house & rahu alone in 12th house with jupiter alone in 9th house . can anyone please tell me what is the spiritual potential in my chart ? M already sprtuly inclined but wonder if I will attain any thing mngful sprtuly in this birth . please help !
Regards
A
Sometimes I've noticed that there is an oversimplification of what is desire and and is release; which skews the connotations of what Rahu and Ketu are. Rahu is desire; but wherever Ketu is is a place of desire too. Ketu is that thing that makes Rahu impossible to attain without surrender. In my philosophies its spoken about the "unity of opposites". This is what creates the Rahu/Ketu complex; the inability to see how the opposite connects with the focus. Ketu is the blind spot; the thing that the person secretly craves but he/she can't see it. They are blind to it. Their separateness is what forms the Maya; the illusion of life.
So what does the dragon want... it wants to be put back together again. Moksha is about balance. Its about seeing the big picture and small picture at the same time and realizing how they both fit in in the whole scheme of all things.
Desire may be the imbalance that causes our incarnation, it doesn't mean that it can't be the thing that perpetuates us into finally releasing though. The ego brings us somewhere, you can't hide from desire. There are many forms of desire; a desire for money, a desire for love, a desire for sex, desire for renunciation. Desires perpetuate the painful journey we undergo to find balance. This can bring us to the breaking point, thus surrender.
On ketu in 12th(and this is without knowing anything about where the lords are posited) and Rahu in 6th; this is usually a position for people that are desirous of a connection to something which ironically causes the person to be disconnected from any sort of subconscious impulses. They are kind of like a wave in the ocean; you know when you jump in the ocean and there is a ripple effect. They typically reflect the subconscious, by attempting to bind to something to makes them feel "normal". This definitely can be a position of release(though to say that it is guaranteed or whatever especially without actually looking at the entire chart is just silly); especially if the native comes to that breaking point while trying to connect to humanity where they realize that its impossible to perfectly connect and have a purpose without divine love.
So what does the dragon want... it wants to be put back together again. Moksha is about balance. Its about seeing the big picture and small picture at the same time and realizing how they both fit in in the whole scheme of all things.
Desire may be the imbalance that causes our incarnation, it doesn't mean that it can't be the thing that perpetuates us into finally releasing though. The ego brings us somewhere, you can't hide from desire. There are many forms of desire; a desire for money, a desire for love, a desire for sex, desire for renunciation. Desires perpetuate the painful journey we undergo to find balance. This can bring us to the breaking point, thus surrender.
On ketu in 12th(and this is without knowing anything about where the lords are posited) and Rahu in 6th; this is usually a position for people that are desirous of a connection to something which ironically causes the person to be disconnected from any sort of subconscious impulses. They are kind of like a wave in the ocean; you know when you jump in the ocean and there is a ripple effect. They typically reflect the subconscious, by attempting to bind to something to makes them feel "normal". This definitely can be a position of release(though to say that it is guaranteed or whatever especially without actually looking at the entire chart is just silly); especially if the native comes to that breaking point while trying to connect to humanity where they realize that its impossible to perfectly connect and have a purpose without divine love.
Could any learned member clarify this doubt:
worship of planet/lord of 12th from AK in D-20 is recommended for progress towards moksha. what if 12th is vacant and is owned by the AK? so it indiciates AK itself for moksha too?
worship of planet/lord of 12th from AK in D-20 is recommended for progress towards moksha. what if 12th is vacant and is owned by the AK? so it indiciates AK itself for moksha too?
Nothing is free except God's Grace.
Hi Hari:
I too have Ketu in the 12th from Atmakaraka Mercury in Navamsha.
And Ketu is aspected by Mars from 6th house. But I also don't think I am anyway near moksha. I also feel there must be some other factors that need to be taken into account. Several horoscopes of this type need to be seen before drawing any conclusion.
Dev
1-2-62 2.30am New Delhi
I too have Ketu in the 12th from Atmakaraka Mercury in Navamsha.
And Ketu is aspected by Mars from 6th house. But I also don't think I am anyway near moksha. I also feel there must be some other factors that need to be taken into account. Several horoscopes of this type need to be seen before drawing any conclusion.
Dev
1-2-62 2.30am New Delhi
Unlike Budha or Ramakrishan Paramahamsa, Ramana Maharishi did not require any efforts for Self realisation. In fact his childhood was very normal until the day the realisation happened when he was 16.
Yes, Ramanar got the realisation in no time but he is one in a million. How many could get that. Budha, Paramahamsa and many others required efforts. We can all not become Ramanar and it is one in a million and also from the million of people those desiring moksha truely. This is what I said and some people misunderstood in the forum. Japa and tapas is required by all. See all of us need to work hard whether it is music or studies or anything to achieve greatness in our skills. Exceptional talent like Einstein, all cannot become nobel laurate.
Similarly a criminal can mend his ways and become good like Valmiki became but can u say how many Valmikis are there? Not many.
My thing is I cannot say I want to become Ramanar and may be I will also become like him without effort at all if God wills and wait for that. It would only be foolish to think so, for any of us I feel. All of us have materialistic desires, it may be less or more but it is not 0% for us to think of Ramanar like situation happening with us. We can say it can happen to anybody but it can but to how many? Can it happen to u or me? No, Ramanar is a special case and the other spiritually realised souls achieved only by penance and tapas for several janmas.
Have we attained or can we attain the vairagya required for this all of a sudden when we are definitely still materialistic?
I am sure we would all have many steps towards that with difference between us of course, some may be in higher steps and so on. We dont have any meter to measure who is where but we can say for sure noone is near the crest.
Dev
Yes, Ramanar got the realisation in no time but he is one in a million. How many could get that. Budha, Paramahamsa and many others required efforts. We can all not become Ramanar and it is one in a million and also from the million of people those desiring moksha truely. This is what I said and some people misunderstood in the forum. Japa and tapas is required by all. See all of us need to work hard whether it is music or studies or anything to achieve greatness in our skills. Exceptional talent like Einstein, all cannot become nobel laurate.
Similarly a criminal can mend his ways and become good like Valmiki became but can u say how many Valmikis are there? Not many.
My thing is I cannot say I want to become Ramanar and may be I will also become like him without effort at all if God wills and wait for that. It would only be foolish to think so, for any of us I feel. All of us have materialistic desires, it may be less or more but it is not 0% for us to think of Ramanar like situation happening with us. We can say it can happen to anybody but it can but to how many? Can it happen to u or me? No, Ramanar is a special case and the other spiritually realised souls achieved only by penance and tapas for several janmas.
Have we attained or can we attain the vairagya required for this all of a sudden when we are definitely still materialistic?
I am sure we would all have many steps towards that with difference between us of course, some may be in higher steps and so on. We dont have any meter to measure who is where but we can say for sure noone is near the crest.
Dev
