Counteracting Dusthanas

[Khoo Hock Leong]

RULE NO. 12

If Venus is in 6th or 12th or the lords of the 6th or 12th associates with Venus, the Dusthana effects can be largely quashed depening on other influneces of the chart.

For example if Venus sits in Taurus in an Aquarius Lagna, that is a Lakshmi Yoga. If the Moon rules the 6th Bhava in such a case associates with Venus, the Dusthana effects can be completely eliminated, notwithstanding in this case the Dusthana Lord gets exalted because of Venus as a very good Yogakaraka.

Warmest Regards
Hock Leong

[Ghrishneswar]

Khoo,

Interesting you speak about Venus while I was thinking about it in this guy's chart. It is debilliated but aspected completely by JU.
27 Nov 1975, 8:43 AM, Lucknow, India. Sg ascendant.
I have seen Jack Welch's, Sean Connery chart with Ve debiliated on 10th.
Ve here is the lord of dusthana 6H and is a functional malefic. So 2 conditions are fulfilled( Ve is lording dusthana and is associating with it.

Do you see evils being quashed?

[Khoo Hock Leong]

Ghrishneswar,

No, what I mean is either Venus is found in the 6th house or in the 12th house especially it is the Lagna Lord ie. for Taurus or Libra Ascendants (whether debilitated or not ie. whether the Great Parasara Exception applies or not) OR the lords of these houses gets associated with Venus which means Venus is not the ruler of these houses. That is for the rule which I just describe.

If Venus (or any Graha) is the ruler of these houses and it is debilitated and either it casts a Dhrishti to Lagna or the Lagna Lord is strong ie. the ascendant lord is placed in its own sign or in its exaltation sign, or aspects the ascendant. I mentioned this as point (2) not RULE (2) right at the very top of this thread.

If a debilitated Venus (or any Graha) gives a Drishti to Lagna and is placed in Ari, Randhr, Sahaj or Labh bhavas. Then it also becomes a Raja Yoga. Again I mentioned this as point (3) not RULE (3) right at the top of this thread.

The above (2) and (3) is part of the Great Parasara Exception. The other Great Prasara Exception is point (1) again NOT Rule (1) at the very top of the thread.

Your example chart which you give Venus ruler of the 6th Bhava is debilitated and the Ascendant Lord Jupiter is strong in its won sign in Pisces in a Kendra. Thus the Dusthana effects of Venus as ruler of the 6th Bhava gets counteracted through the Great Parasara Exception.

The one I am describing now (RULE NO. 12) using my D-11 where the 6th Lord Moon of an Aquarius Ascendant gets associated with a Venus Yogakarak is also another way where the Dusthana effects of the 6th (and the 12th but does not apply to the 8th) gets counteracted but it is not a Great Parasara Eception point.

Also there is Vipareet Raja Yoga and Neecha Bhanga and Neecha Bhanga Raja Yoga which are again other points altogether. There are also other rules RULE NO. 1 to RULE NO. 11.

Such is the complexity of the topic of this thread.

Warmest Regards
Hock Leong

[Ghrishneswar]

Thanks Khoo.
I knew about other channels 1to 11.I was trying to figure out if Rule# 12 is applicable in these charts.
May be you can edit add a caveat to Rule# 12.

If Venus is in 6th or 12th or the lords of the 6th or 12th associates with Venus, the Dusthana effects can be largely quashed depening on other influneces of the chart.

[Khoo Hock Leong]

Ghrishneswar

In the chart that you query, rule no. 12 does not apply. The other rules apply. Putting a caveat to rule 12 would mean asking the reader to refer to the other rules, which is not a very good caveat to add into rule 12 or any rules for that matter.

I hope I understood your request and I hope that helps.

Thanks.

[Ghrishneswar]

I thought putting a caveat that : Rule 12 is not applicable when Ve is the owner might make it crystal clear.
It is up to you.
I undertand it and I am fine either way.

[Khoo Hock Leong]

Yes, Ghrishnewar. I just realise what you meant. That is not a caveat. When Venus is the owner of the 6th or 12th the rule in fact also applies. It is in fact a qualification.

Here is the revised RULE NO. 12.

If Venus is in 6th or 12th or the lords of the 6th or 12th associates with Venus, the Dusthana effects can be largely quashed depening on other influneces of the chart. Venus as the lord of the 6th or 12th also satisifies this rule. Note that if the aforesaid conditions apply but Venus or the lord of the 6th is debilitated, then other earlier rules would have to be seen to seen to guage the degree of quantum of effects of this rule. For example, if Venus is in the 6th or 12th and debilitated, Rule No. 12 still applies. But the quantum of effects would be more if one or more of other conditions apply :

(a) Venus also has Neecha Bhanga

(b) The 1st Great Parasara Exception allows for it - which the sage allows for the 3rd, 6th and 8th Bhava (but NOT 12th Bhava). This is documented as (1) above at the top of this thread (which is not Rule No. 1 to clarify to readers).

(c) For Venus in the 12th Bhava debilitated, the 2nd Great Parasara Exception allows for it, documented as (2) above at the top of this thread (which is not Rule No. 2 to clarify to readers). But the ascendant lord must be placed in its own sign, exalted or aspects the ascendant.

(d) The 3rd Great Parasara Exception does not apply for a debilitated Venus in 6th or 12th Bhava which requires a Dhrishti of a planet placed in 3rd, 6th, 8th or 11th to Lagna. For the 6th Bhava only Mars can apply since Mars gives a full aspect to Lagna when placed in the 6th. This 3rd great Parasara Exception is documented as (3) above at the top of this thread (which not Rule No. 3 to clarify to readers).

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Thanks Ghrishnewar. This makes it complete.

So to clarify again, Rule No. 12 does apply to Venus if it lords the 6th or the 12th which I forgot to include.

Warmest Regards
Hock Leong

[Khoo Hock Leong]

Ghrishnewar, so in fact the chart you query, Venus ruler of the 6th and debilitated, going by the revised definition and explanation, Rule No. 12 still applies, although the example which I have given above is for Venus in the 6th or 12th and not for Venus ruling the 6th or 12th.

Thus the chart also qualifies for the Great Parasara Exception.

[Khoo Hock Leong]

Make some changes to the last post above ie. the short explanation to Ghrishnewar above.

Thanks.

[Ghrishneswar]

Khoo,
Thanks for clarifying this.
Off topic: Your devotion to astrology is an inspiration to all of us.

[s_bman]

Hi khl

In my rasi chart I have 6L in 12H (enemy sign) Although not making case for VRY as 6L is also 5L(trienal lord),8L in 2H again in enemy house with enemy ,does this make raj yoga as in rule two

Regards

Sbman

[chavitarun]

RULE NO. 12

If Venus is in 6th or 12th or the lords of the 6th or 12th associates with Venus, the Dusthana effects can be largely quashed depening on other influneces of the chart.

For example if Venus sits in Taurus in an Aquarius Lagna, that is a Lakshmi Yoga. If the Moon rules the 6th Bhava in such a case associates with Venus, the Dusthana effects can be completely eliminated, notwithstanding in this case the Dusthana Lord gets exalted because of Venus as a very good Yogakaraka.

Warmest Regards
Hock Leong

dear Hock sir ,

Libra lagan - Venus( lord of lagan & 8th) exalted with Deb. mercury( lord of 9th & 12th) in 6th house - how will you explain this rule?

regards

[Khoo Hock Leong]

RULE NO. 13

The 11th to a Dusthana if strong (if a Dusthana it must be strong in a Dusthana sense like Vipareet Raja Yoga like the 6th is the 11th to the 8th otherwise strong in a beneficial sense) can counteract the respective Dusthana.

4th which is 11th to the 6th if strong shows integrity, steadfastness etc. so that there is no loophole for enemies to make inroads to you for their benefits. 6th which is 11th to the 8th if strong shows someone fighting obstacles in life so that problems cannot be escalated. 10th which is 11th to the 12th shows that if one is honourable in one's deeds, no hidden enemies are going to exist to damage your reputation.

Warmest Regards
Hock Leong

[Khoo Hock Leong]

Note for RULE NO. 13 above, when the 11th to a Disthana is a non-Dusthana, what I menat by being strong in a beneficial sense means that in the special case the said Dusthna its lord goes into the 11th to the Dusthana, it also means it should be non-debilitated, because here we want the 11th to the Dusthana to be strong, and not the effects of the Dusthana to be weak which is already taken care of by earlier rules.

For example, Cancer is on the 6th house cusp. 11th to it is Taurus which is a 4th Bhava, a non-Dusthana. In the special case when Moon the lord of the 6th goes to this 4th Bhava which is the 11th to the 6th, the Moon becomes exalted, which is required for the 4th Bhava to be strong in a beneficial sense, ie. the person's integrity shines through to counteract enemy attacks, for example. Earlier rules would however, hava it that the Moon if the 6th lord goes to a non-Dusthana should be debilitated and at the same time Lagna Lord strong for example.

Readers must carefully distinguish the example of the two scenarios mentioned above.

Warmest Regards
Hock Leong

[Akash]

Khoo sir,

Excellent thread with a lot of information. I'm going through it carefully to comb every last word!

I have a some questions:

First, from the very start of the thread you speak of "strength of xxx lord". I realise this is complex (considering a lord's strength is dependent on its position, aspects etc etc), but is there a simpler way to determine the strength of the lord? Because using the aforementioned method could turn cyclic! (12 lord in 9th would weaken 9th house and hence 9th lord, and the lord that 9th aspects would in turn become relatively weaker than if 9th were not hosting the 12th lord.. etc)

So my first question is.. For instance, In JHora would it be safe to assume the shadbalas are good indicators of the lords? How about cheshta rashmis? What I am asking for is there a simple single indicator that would indicate the overall strength of a lord?

Notice the dispositor of the North Node, the Moon, is together with the dispositor with the South Node, Saturn. From past posts, we know that when these two dispositors are together, they create the churning of the milk ocean and hence you can only get treasures coming out like Lakshmi, the celestial cow etc. So the 7th can be considered highly beneficial, a counteraction to the significations of the 12th since 7th is the 8th to the 12th using Rule C.

My second question is regarding the quoted text. In your chart, depositors of rahu and ketu are conjunct which you say is extremely beneficial and bestows treasures to the house in which they conjunct (7th in your case). What would be the case if the depositors of aspect each other (for instance 7th from each other or with special aspects). Would this bestow treasures? If so, in what aspect of life would these show? Would it bring treasures in the 2 houses from which the depositors aspect each other?

If lordship of 1st and 8th are the same, it can be taken that the lord gives beneficial results. This would be the case for Aires and Libra Ascendants.

Regarding the above, would there be a similar rule for those whose 1st and 6th lords are the same i.e. Taurus and Scorpio ascendants where venus/mars act as both 1st and 6th lords? I know you mentioned rule number 10, but I did not follow as although the mooltrikona of mars/venus falls in the 6th house, does it not matter where mars/venus actually are? For instance for taurus lagna, if venus were say in the 9th house, would the native still be 6th house dominated (have enemies and diseases)?

If Venus is in 6th or 12th or the lords of the 6th or 12th associates with Venus, the Dusthana effects can be largely quashed depening on other influneces of the chart.

Similarly, for scorpio ascendants, venus would be 7th and 12th lords. So would Venus's 12th lord tendencies be quashed (since the 12th lord is 'associated' with venus). The same would be true for taurus ascendents where venus is 6th house lord. (again you sort of answered this when you replied to Ghrishneswar, however, in that case venus was debilitated and the 2nd reply to him made it confusing). So just clarifying for the sake of being crystal clear.

[Khoo Hock Leong]

Hi Akash

1st qestion answer

The best inidcator for strength is whether the planet is near to its exaltation point with the planet being in exaltation the most powerful (gives strength and benefits). Next would be the Shadbala (but if the planet is in a bad sign it gives malefic effects). In all cases the planet should not be combust nor conjuncting the nodes in an inimical sign (in good signs, planets conjuncting nodes gets extra strength). Retrogading, planetary war (by declination and not by degree) must also be factored in. Retrogading makes the planet strong however, but the natural flow of the energy of the planet is hampered (so counteracting Dusthanas may be an issue like an uphill struggle) unless it is placed in its own signs, with friends etc. Planets in Rasi sandhi or Gadanta also can be terribly weak. Planets in Bhava sandhi has not much effect on the Bhava where it is placed.

So there is no one indicator but a host of indicators graded above eg. combustion is more important than Bhava Sandhi.

2nd question answer

Mutual aspects should work the same as conjunction. But if you talk about one way aspect than it cannot be an exact condition as a conjunction. But even for mutual aspects, you should see whether one of the planets is weak. A planet that is excessively weak and the other excessively strong means that even for mutual aspects, it works like a one way aspect ie. from the strong planet to the weak planet.

So let's say both planets are about equal strength and casting mutual aspects. It would thus benefit both houses, the houses where each of the planet is placed.

3rd question answer

Firstly I must clarify Mars is out of the picture. If Mars rules 1st and 6th and its Moolatriona is in the 6th, then a lot of Dusthana effects follow unless Mars is in the 6th, a Vipareet Raja Yoga. And that would be a powerful Vipareet Raja Yoga because Mars is the karaka of the 6th.

Venus Rule 10 applies by virtue of the fact that Venus combines with the 6th house whether placed in it, has a sign on the 6th which is ruled by Venus or aspects the 6th (but the strongest effect would be when Venus is in the 6th AND the Ascendant Lord is Venus ie. a Taurus Ascendant) denotes the kidney.

The kidney as you know cleanses the blood and impurities of the body. So Venus in whatever way related to the 6th has the effect of cleansing out the dirt and sweepting away any obstructive and or malefic effects. This dictum is acknowledge by a handful of practional astrologers as well through experience.

So if the example you quoted, Venus rules the 6th and is found in the 9th, it only speeds up Venus work in cleansing the dirt of the 6th house, because the house of fortune and luck is now within the arsenal of Venus as well.

I think my answer to Ghrishnewar in the second time round was clear to him and not like you said made him confused. He was not clear in the first time round (refer to the thread again, please).

Your last paragraph is not clear. Basically if Venus lords both the 7th and 12th houses, then again being the lord of the 12th house, Venus gives beneficial effects wherever it may be placed. Like in the 9th mentioned before. But now 12th and Venus together denotes prosperity (and not the kidney). So let's say such a Venus is placed in the 9th, the prosperity is enhanced with fortune and luck on Venus side - mabye there is a growth in prosperity.

But like what I told Ghrishnewar, if such a Venus (ruling 6th of 12th) happens to be in a debilitated sign, then the beneficial effects get reduced simply because a sign is the style in which the planet works. If the style is not the one which Venus is comfortable with, then of course less success would ensue.

Your last paragraph mentioning about Venus lording 7th and 12th and then went on to mention Venus associating with the 12th lord is unintelligible. Venus is already the 12th lord so how can Venus be associating with another 12th lord?

Warmest Regards
Hock Leong

[Akash]

Khoo Sir,

Thankyou for youro reply.

Regarding the strengths, I assume when you say 'good signs' you mean signs that belong to the lords friends. Is this assumption correct?

If the above is correct, then may I ask whether you use 'permanent relationships' or 'compound relationships' (names based on JHora) to ascertain who the lords friends are. I was thinking of using permanent relationships because it is more "stable" (in that it is so irrespective of the chart) - or is this thinking flawed?

As for the "confusion" I mentioned in my previous post, I apologize. I meant I got confused.

Also, when I said venus that lords the 12th house is associated with the 12th lord, I meant to ask .. as they are the same, so could this be considered an association. You have addressed this very clearly now. Thankyou very much.

I am a bit curious though, does a venus (that lords 12th house) bring prosperity to the house it is placed in - considering 12th house constitutes losses - because it causes losses to the lord of losses (12th), causing a double negative?

Again, thankyou for your time and effort. You are one of the people I have learnt a lot from.

[Khoo Hock Leong]

Yes, good signs means those that belong to the Lord's friends.

It should be permanent relationships. In fact in my latest post on a classic that came after BPHS is based on permanent relationship. Temporary friendship in my personal opinion (not even from the classic just mentioned) should be used to break ties amongst permanent friends.

Venus lords the 12th house with or without associating with another planet and Venus associating with the 12th lord is the same. Other than these, for example, any planet lording the 12th house which is not Venus is not the same, not even if it associates with another planet UNLESS the planet is Venus which collapses to the 2nd condition in the previous statement.

Yes, Venus lording the 12th house if placed in a house causes the prosperity of the said house where Venus is situated in. In the case when that house is a Dusthana, the Dusthana prospers and the Vipareet Raja Yoga has somewhat a lesser effect (because losses to the Dusthan is counterbalanced by prosperity to the Dusthana for example which cancels out the overall good effects unless the Dusthana is a 6th house ie. this dictum applies only to the 8th house because for the 6th house, Venus again does well there, and a 12th lord Venus in the 6th hous is strong, with Vipareet Raja Yoga and 12th house prosperity and 6th house cleansing effects.

Warmest Regards
Hock Leong

[Khoo Hock Leong]

I have re-written the 3rd paragraph above reproduced here below :

Venus lords the 12th house with or without associating with another planet and Venus associating with the 12th lord is the same. Other than these, for example, any planet lording the 12th house which is not Venus is not the same, not even if it associates with another planet UNLESS the planet is Venus which collapses to the 2nd condition in the previous statement.

Warmest Regards
Hock Leong

[Khoo Hock Leong]

Amended the above amended paragraph again. This should be the last amendment. Sorry, guys.

[Khoo Hock Leong]

This is from Jataka Rajeeyam, the article from Saptarishis Astrology which I am currently discussing under my thread "Insights Not Found in Classics".

RULE NO. 14
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Malefic planets placed in 6, 8, 12 without any strength having relationship with benefic planets respectively lead to Raja Yoga.

Notice this is different from the Parasara exception. Here it talks about RELATIONSHIP WITH NATURAL BENEFICS as an additional condition.

Warmest Regards
Hock Leong

[Khoo Hock Leong]

This is from a website.

RULE NO. 15
---------------

Purnayu Yoga The 6th or the 12th lord are placed in the 6th house or in the 12th house or the 8th house or the Lagna. Result : This combination is an indication of a long life span up to 100 years.

Warmest Regards
Hock Leong

[Khoo Hock Leong]

This is from Phaladeepika quoted by the same website above.

RULE NO. 15
---------------

. Viparita Sarala Raja Yoga The 8th lord is in the 6th, 8th or 12th house (Phala Deepika 6/65). Result : This confers learning, longevity and prosperity. The person will be successful in all ventures, conquerer of foes and a great celebrity.

Warmest Regards
Hock Leong

[anilesh47]

Dear khoo hock long,

How r u? after a long time...

Sir ji, you have given very good information about purnayu yoga and vipreet saral yoga. My 6th lord is in lagna and 12th lord is in 6th. So there is longetivity right?
In another case, 6th lord is in 8th house and 8th lord is in 6th house, both are exchanging place, is there longetivity in this case?

Thank you.

Nilesh

[Khoo Hock Leong]

Yes, Anilesh. Both your configurations (I won't call it cases) satisfy bits and pieces of BOTH Yogas especially Purnayu Yoga.

But you were telling me you have gone bankrupt isn't it? Looks like these Yogas can only come about after much facing of difficulties.

By the way I will be just like any other astrologers in this forum and respond to those queries that I find interesting from now onwards rather than writing new posts. It is taking too much of my time.

Warmest Regards
Hock Leong