My Beautiful Visamsa D-20

For discussion on divisional charts: navamsha, drekkana, saptamsha, dashamsha, etc.
Forum rules
READ Forum-Wide Rules and Guidelines NOTICE: OFFENSIVE POSTS WILL BE DELETED, AND OFFENDERS WILL HAVE ALL POSTS MODERATED.
Post Reply
Khoo Hock Leong
Frequent Contributor
Frequent Contributor
Posts:7758
Joined:03 Jan 2009
My Beautiful Visamsa D-20

Post by Khoo Hock Leong » 20 May 2017

Hi Learned Members

As I typing this thread using my tablet, I will keep this post short.

Gemini is rising showing resources of the wish-fulfilling cow Taurus. Thus Gemini covers fodder for chewing into cud for ingestion (Gemini can gather bits and pices of information and wove it into something of value, even ordinary items), the mulitiple stomachs of the cow (many methos of processing information or things and they can be done in a parallel fashion) etc.

The Lagna ruler is in Sagittarius in the 7th. In fact the two Sattwic planets not concerned with mundane affairs, Sun and Jupiter, is also in Sagittarius in the 7th, together with the two natural benefic Rajastic planets Mercury and Venus. It is found in the house of Lakshmi in the 7th. 7th house almost invariably denotes crafting one's own environment to enjoy especially when there is a stellium of planets there; in this case the spiritual aura that I have created for myself.

All these 4 planets in the 7th have the capacity to elevate the person to great spiritual heights. Not a planet more and not a planet less.

Saturn in the 4th retrogading means it is aspecting the 7th in its 10th aspect ie. the 100% forward square. It shows accomplishment and work done, resulting in a further elevation of status. In the 4th of masses but moving towars the house of writing, it shows the person likes to maintain his link with the masses through his writings.

The stelliun is 11th from the Moon showing that it results in mundane gains as well.

And the stellium is 9th from Mars showing condtant dharmic achievement, nothing can go wrong in my forging ahead of my spiritual pursuits.

The stellium is 3rd from the nodes. In divisional charts when the nodes come together, it can be represented as a modified Rahu, Rahu controls Ketu, but modified by Ketu inclinations nevertheless. The stellium is found 3rd from Rahu showing strength ie. the person never waver from his beliefs.

Best Regards
Khoo



rathore
Frequent Contributor
Frequent Contributor
Posts:735
Joined:16 Aug 2012

Re: My Beautiful Visamsa D-20

Post by rathore » 22 May 2017

Actually the way you are reading Vimsamsa (as a separate chart) that way your Vimsasmsa needs help. Here is why:

1. 10th house has three malefics aspected by Mars who is another malefic. This mean bad deeds per BPHS.

2. All benefics including Lagna lord (except Moon) are combust. But wait, Moon should be OK (see #3).

3. The remaining benefic Moon is in Kemdrum. So the native can't amount to anything significant.

And since we are looking at Yogas in D "charts" so here is one Reka yog in your Vimsamsa: Weak Lagna lord (combust) aspected by the 8th lord (Saturn) and Jupiter is combust. Result: One has neither knowledge nor wealth and one is disagreeable, crafty, evil minded etc.

So I guess you can apply the above results to your Vimsamsa life.

Overall Result: The native wastes time and energy on futile stuff.

Khoo Hock Leong
Frequent Contributor
Frequent Contributor
Posts:7758
Joined:03 Jan 2009

Re: My Beautiful Visamsa D-20

Post by Khoo Hock Leong » 24 May 2017

You have my birth details wrong. For one thing I do not have 3 malefics in the 10th bhava in my D-20.

The planets are as what I have explained in the thread.

I have posted my birth details several times.

rathore
Frequent Contributor
Frequent Contributor
Posts:735
Joined:16 Aug 2012

Re: My Beautiful Visamsa D-20

Post by rathore » 24 May 2017

It just depends if you are using True or Mean nodes. In one case you get three malefics in 10th house aspected by Mars and in another you get one malefic in 10th house aspected by Mars. Both cases are opined bad by Parashar. And in the case of one malefic in 10H, the remaining two malefics move to your 9th house, which is even worse per Parashar. Malefics in 9H makes a native devoid of real knowledge and in general makes one sinful. So either way your Vimsamsa needs help.

Khoo Hock Leong
Frequent Contributor
Frequent Contributor
Posts:7758
Joined:03 Jan 2009

Re: My Beautiful Visamsa D-20

Post by Khoo Hock Leong » 24 May 2017

I always use True Nodes and I am not talking about that.

In D-20 the nodes combine and they are found in my 5th bhava. My 10th house is empty and my 9th house only has the Moon there.

Mars is in the 11th. Saturn in the 4th. The rest of the planets are in the 7th.

My birth details are :

22nd June 1962
Singapore

9:02 with GMT +8.0
- use this if your software allows input of GMT or it can ajust the GMT automatically of Singapore before and on or after 1st Jan 1983

or 8.32 with GMT +7.5
- use this if your software only register Singapore as GMT +8.0 all the way throughout the years and there is no way to adjust the GMT

As a countercheck, my Ascendant in Rasi Chart is 4 degrees 10 minutes Cancer or to be exact 4 degrees 11 minutes and 17 seconds Cancer.

rathore
Frequent Contributor
Frequent Contributor
Posts:735
Joined:16 Aug 2012

Re: My Beautiful Visamsa D-20

Post by rathore » 24 May 2017

This is your Vimsamsa per Jhora using Mean nodes:

http://imgur.com/a/si2KZ

Can you please post an image of the Vimsamsa from your software?

Khoo Hock Leong
Frequent Contributor
Frequent Contributor
Posts:7758
Joined:03 Jan 2009

Re: My Beautiful Visamsa D-20

Post by Khoo Hock Leong » 29 May 2017

The chart is OK except that Rahu and Ketu should go to the 5th bhava rather than being in the 4th bhava if you use TRUE NODES. Do not use MEAN NODES because again this is a precept that is thought up by humans to hoarnise the extreme swings of Rahu and Ketu in their movements but which should always take the TRUE position at a particular point of time as determined by CELESTIAL FORCES.

Having said that, where did you come up with the notion that in my D-20 (Visamsa) I have THREE MALEFICS IN THE 10TH BHAVA????

rathore
Frequent Contributor
Frequent Contributor
Posts:735
Joined:16 Aug 2012

Re: My Beautiful Visamsa D-20

Post by rathore » 29 May 2017

True nodes moves your Rahu-Ketu to 9th house. But let's just say they are in the 5th house per whatever calculations you are using. That leaves 10th house with one malefic aspected by another first rate malefic (Mars) which means bad deeds per Parashar. Not to mention all benefics are combust and Moon is in Kemdrum. So you D-20 is essentially just there for decoration purposes.

Khoo Hock Leong
Frequent Contributor
Frequent Contributor
Posts:7758
Joined:03 Jan 2009

Re: My Beautiful Visamsa D-20

Post by Khoo Hock Leong » 30 May 2017

Yes, Rahu/Ketu shifts to the 9th house (and not the 5th) aspected by Mars in the 4th using true nodes.

Let's take the combustion first.

Venus although combusted, it is in a different nakshatra, so the combustion is not strong.

Mercury and Jupiter are both in a different pada from the Sun although in the same nakshatra. And Jupiter is in its own sign too. Plus Mercury is the planet that does quite well near the Sun, notwithstanding combusion.

Thus Mercury and Jupiter also escapes the scorching rays of the Sun, especially Mercury.

Jupiter in its own sign conjunct Sun shows the person did not develop religious inclination until much later in life.

Thus the stellium of planets is not that bad given the fact that all 3 natural benefics are also together to sustain one another (Mecury conjuncting only Sun can be considered as a natural benefic as well).

Although the divisional chart can be read just like a Rasi Chart, in any divisional chart the primary emphasis is on the Lagna of the divisional chart and the primary karya house. The primary karya house of D-20 should be the 8th house.

The Lagna is strengthened by the aspect of the stellium of planets in the 7th house just discussed. The ruler is Mercury which goes to the 7th with the others, the stellium of planets just discussed.

Saturn is the ruler of the 8th karya house and retrogading in the 10th in a good sign of Pisces and moving towards Aquarius and also partake somewhat the characteristic of the sign of Virgo as well (the opposite sign for planets that retrogade). So all good signs.

It does not cast a 10th backward aspect to the stellium of planets since it is retrogading but instead it is casting a backward sextile to the 8th house. So the 8th house is strong with an aspect received from its ruler.

I would say my chart is good.

Best Regards
Khoo

rathore
Frequent Contributor
Frequent Contributor
Posts:735
Joined:16 Aug 2012

Re: My Beautiful Visamsa D-20

Post by rathore » 30 May 2017

The Lagna lord is not only combust but also in adhi-shatru (bitter enemy) sign so most of its potency is gone. And since you are considering longitudes in divisions so please note that your Saturn cannot be retrograde in D20 as its just 4th from the Sun.

But still if we just go by your theory then 10th house yog and the Reka yog mentioned earlier still applies.

Your planets can be out of combustion if you don't take longitudes in divisions because if you do take longitudes then you have to agree that Saturn is direct in your D20. However you already indicated its retrograde. Is it possible for you to explain how a non-luminary can be 4th from Sun and yet be retrograde?

http://imgur.com/a/qSDzD

Khoo Hock Leong
Frequent Contributor
Frequent Contributor
Posts:7758
Joined:03 Jan 2009

Re: My Beautiful Visamsa D-20

Post by Khoo Hock Leong » 30 May 2017

The combustion I have already explained that the planets are not that combust and Mercury being the one that can get close to the Sun and get away with it. And the three being natural benefics would cast beneficial rays to one another to sustain themselves.

Jupiter is not an enemy to any planet and Sagittarius is Jupiter's home, so Mercury is in fact in a neutral home and not in a bitter enemy home. Plus Jupiter is near Mercury so they are also temporary friends by placement, so the word 'bitter' all the more should not be used.

We look at D20 as a Rasi Chart in the way we analyse, but D-20 is not made up of the usual three dimensions in the Rasi Chart. Even at the Rasi Chart level there are three visible dimensions (four if you consider the time variable) but there also 21 hidden dimensions as indicated in one of my earlier posts. But in D-20, which are the dimensions that are hidden and which dimensions are under consideration (ie. manifesting at that level of divisional chart), the sages did not tell us.

Hence I am not seeing D-20 as longtitudes even though I am analysing D-20 like a Rasi chart. Understand? Hence Saturn can be combust even though it is 4th from the Sun. Aspects of planets remain the same in divisional charts because the bhavas which are not physical entities, segementise themselves in a way that is similar to the Rasi chart level, even though they are not in the usual place of the Rasi Chart. This is again something which the sages did not explain in detail. So we have to take what the Puranas say that the planets still orbit in the same manner even though they are at the lower spaces - when Krishna opened his mouth and showed his mother the planets orbiting at their respective orbits.

And like I said in divisional charts, the Lagna and the 8th house of D-20 which is the primary karya house should be our focus of analysis, so the 10th house and 4th house axis including the bad yoga which you described is much less emphasised which I thought you understood even though in my earlier reply I did not say so in so many words.

You gave the link which says three planets combusted by the Sun make a foolish person. But I have already explained the planets are not that combust and on top of that Jupiter is in its own sign, and the planet that is most combust is Mercury, which being close to the Sun gives the Intelligence Yoga.

Sun+Mercury+Venus in one house as per Saravalli is :

17. SUN-MERCURY-VENUS YOGA. With these planets in one House, one will be wealthy, happy, chief, will have cherished desires, will have relatives and be noble.

http://www.astrojyoti.com/saravalipage3-5.htm

Added to the above, we have Jupiter. Jupiter would only add to the beneficial influence since Jupiter being in its own sign and not being an enemy to any planet.

Khoo

Khoo Hock Leong
Frequent Contributor
Frequent Contributor
Posts:7758
Joined:03 Jan 2009

Re: My Beautiful Visamsa D-20

Post by Khoo Hock Leong » 30 May 2017

Typing error above. The correct statement should be :

Saturn can be retrogade even though it is 4th from the Sun.

rathore
Frequent Contributor
Frequent Contributor
Posts:735
Joined:16 Aug 2012

Re: My Beautiful Visamsa D-20

Post by rathore » 02 Jun 2017

Two planets in the same sign are inimical to each other, that's the rule. So when you say Jupiter is near Mercury and is therefore neutral then its not so. Its neutral + enemy = enemy. In some writings Mercury is inimical in Dhanu, in which case your Mercury would be considered highly inimical.

About the three benefics that would cast beneficial rays on each other, lets see the result of these four planets together in 7th house per Garga: free from diseases, pretentious disposition, fond of meat and defeated by enemies... By the way being pretentious and spirituality don't go hand in hand.

Also Venus in 7th house gives bad results. Jupiter harms the place where it sits in, so two of the three benefics are not helping. All three are combust anyway.

If you are not seeing longitudes in D20 then how are you getting Nakshatra padas for the combust planets? Padas by definition is a window of longitude.

Sages did not talk about any obscure "Dimensions" ... but if you are not seeing longitudes and still analyzing it like Rashi chart then how is any planet near or far enough to Sun in your D20 to be combust/ not combust? This is because the term 'near / far' is a function of 'longitudes' in Astrology and a function of 'Displacement' in general. And if you are moving D20 planets into so called "hidden dimensions" and they are in different dimensions to each other then there can be no 'rays' interaction so no combustion. But since you mention they are combust so how did that happen?

For the Jupiter in own sign, its in a bad avastha because its with two enemies Venus and Mercury. Remaining planet Sun has combusted it, so that ends there.

About the made up idea of considering only Lagna and 8th house in D20 ... let us see it that way now through the Reka yog mentioned earlier: Weak Lagna lord (combust) aspected by the 8th lord (Saturn) and Jupiter is combust. Result: One has neither knowledge nor wealth and one is disagreeable, crafty, evil minded etc. So that's gone too.

Khoo Hock Leong
Frequent Contributor
Frequent Contributor
Posts:7758
Joined:03 Jan 2009

Re: My Beautiful Visamsa D-20

Post by Khoo Hock Leong » 04 Jun 2017

Yes, like you said, only in some writings Mercury is considered inimical in Dhanu. Actually I can almost guess the reason......these writers sometimes they get mixed up between signs and planets.....the signs are the home and the planet is the guest....so one should predict how ell the planet does in the sign based on his residence in the guest house.....but these writers treat as if the guest has an important say on how he should be treated,....which accounts for the inimicality which these writers claim....that is Mercury is inimical to Dhanu, the guest house, because Mercury is inimical to Jupiter which is the host.

Guest are important to be treated well, but they do not have the authority to dictate the outcome of the guest-host relationship.

Mercury+Jupiter is considered better than Mercury+Saturn in some writings because the former makes for an easy flow of ideas, understanding, and natural benefics of these two tend to promote better spirituality (leaving aside the comments from Garga aside for the time being).

The pretentious part is HUGELY offset by Saturn aspecting its 8th bhava, which is the primary karya house of D-20.

Even then one must be careful how we interpret the 7th bhava in the D-20. In the Rasi chart, the 7th bhava calls for openess and flexibility in relationships which means the pretence part. But the 7th bhava of D-20 has a much more restrictive meaning, just like D-20 deals with spiritual matters but D-1 the Rasi chart deals with our general mundane conditions in life.

The 7th bhava in D-20 has to do with trying to accommodate our material wants with our spiritual quests because D-20 is all about spirituality.

Venus in the 7th is conducive to help from God if you recall in one of the sites which Anuradha quoted -

Help from God

Jupiter in 5th or 9th
Venus in 7th
Mercury in 10th
Moon in 4th

Only for natural benefics.

Jupiter harming the place where he sits in is from Bhrigu which has its own way of looking at the chart which is the most furthest from that of Parasara. It has a lot to do with the rotation of the chart as each planet is placed succeedingly in different bhavas throughout the years of the native. Which means they do not use Vimsottari dasha. The planets are also harming certain houses counted from where they are placed. Usually this concept is for harming specific matters, and one or two only, not like Parasara where plaents' aspects are considered generally good and generally bad. Jupiter's influence is considered good in Parasara.

Rahore I do notice you go for concepts that are specific and those that are unorthodox which is difficult to merge with the usual popular astrological dictum. Bhrigu astrology comes under Venus, the guru of the demons. This is not like say, Nadi Astrology. Even Lal Kitab is based on the overall feel of the planets and their ties to the mundane - something hearken to the olden times of the Vedas in a way.

Your Ketu in the chart must be very strong.

Everything works the same in the divisional charts but it may not be longtitude that is doing the division. Remember longtitutde is the means devised by the people in the middle period for use in cartography. What happens is that signs, nakshatras, padas etc. all remain the same across charts because these are defined by divinity (not longtitudes or any man-made devices but these devices are being used by man to make sense of the world and hence the Rasi chart only).

rathore
Frequent Contributor
Frequent Contributor
Posts:735
Joined:16 Aug 2012

Re: My Beautiful Visamsa D-20

Post by rathore » 05 Jun 2017

In your D20 Mercury is at least inimical if not highly inimical.

Now let's see the result of Mercury in a Jupiterian sign aspected by Saturn per Saravali: the native is dirty, wicked, eats much, intent to live in forests and unsuccessful in all undertakings.

So since Mercury is the Lagna lord and is in an inimical sign, combust and aspected by Saturn has taken away just about everything it could offer otherwise. So it makes all your spiritual undertakings unsuccessful, and more so because its the Lagna lord aspected by the 8th lord (per your post Lagna and 8th house are the prime considerations in D20). Anyway let's see what results would other planets combined with Mercury give under Saturn's aspect:

Sun in Jupiter's sign aspected by Saturn: the native is unclean, eats other's food, joins bad men and breeds animals.

Jupiter in own sign aspected by Saturn: the native is dirty, fear stricken, neglected by own people, devoid of happiness / pleasures / virtues.

Venus in Jupiter's sign aspected by Saturn: financial gains, happy, pleasures, fortunate.

So other than Venus all planets related to Mercury are toast. Not to mention what Garga said about the conjunction in 7th house, making them a burnt toast.

Not sure how the pretentious part is offset at all. In fact from the above writing its seen that its even worse than just being pretentious because of Saturn's aspect. And as per you 7th house in D20 has a more restrictive meaning so it makes the native spiritually pretentious (e.g. look at my Avtar chart, its the master key to the Universe).

Sure Venus in 7th house maybe conducive to help from God but please cite a real text in all claims and not a mortal. Assuming it gives you help from God then God help you because your D20 really needs it.

About Jupiter only harming a couple of matters: Since D20 is restrictive to spirituality so Jupiter is harming spirituality itself, but even if we ignore that concept ..still your D20 Jupiter is just good for decoration (and nothing more) by being combust, being with enemies and aspected by Saturn.

Longitudes (degrees) are what divide the Zodiac into Rashi, Drekkana, Navamsa etc. Without degrees there are no divisions to begin with. But if you don't have a real answer to combustion, retrogression in your D20 then its understandable because one can only go so far from basic rules until the whole system falls apart.

Dev
Frequent Contributor
Frequent Contributor
Posts:3841
Joined:17 May 2010

Re: My Beautiful Visamsa D-20

Post by Dev » 06 Jun 2017

Dear Rathore,

can you read my D5 and D20 charts if u have time?

In D20, the lords of 1, 5 and 9 aspect each other, ie 1 and 9 in one house aspected by 5th lord. Is it good?
In the reversal one, guru is exalted aspecting lagna but not in the normal one. Anyway I dont know how to read these.


Dev

Khoo Hock Leong
Frequent Contributor
Frequent Contributor
Posts:7758
Joined:03 Jan 2009

Re: My Beautiful Visamsa D-20

Post by Khoo Hock Leong » 10 Jun 2017

In your D20 Mercury is at least inimical if not highly inimical.

Answer (1) :

As I said in some writings, Mercury associated with Jupiter in anyway is considered good. Mercury represents the student and Jupiter the teacher. It is inimical to Mercury in the sense the student is kept from exploring new topics naturally with a free wandering mind. But now these days the teacher has been asked to inculcate new teaching methods in the curricula. This means Jupiter always try to accommodate Mercury so that the latter can stretch its developments to the fullest extent. However, if the teacher is strict and out of touch with new teaching methods (a malefic Jupiter), the student suffers (inimical to Mercury).

Mine is a good Jupiter in its own sign. Jupiter (and also Mercury) can also handle the combustion of the Sun as indicated in my earlier answer.

------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Now let's see the result of Mercury in a Jupiterian sign aspected by Saturn per Saravali: the native is dirty, wicked, eats much, intent to live in forests and unsuccessful in all undertakings.

Answer (2) :

My Mercury is in the 7th bhava. It is not aspected by the retrogade Saturn. My retrogade Saturn is aspecting the 8th bhava as I have already mentioned.

A retrogade planet aspects are all in reverse. So for a retrogade Saturn it aspects the backward sextile (3 bhavas back) and the forward square (4 bhavas forward). I have talked about retogade planet aspects in one of my earlier posts. It was mentioned by an early 20th century famous Indian astrologer which now I forgot the name. Check the earlier post.

Here my retogade Saturn is aspecting the 8th bhava, the bhava it rules.

------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

So since Mercury is the Lagna lord and is in an inimical sign, combust and aspected by Saturn has taken away just about everything it could offer otherwise. So it makes all your spiritual undertakings unsuccessful, and more so because its the Lagna lord aspected by the 8th lord (per your post Lagna and 8th house are the prime considerations in D20). Anyway let's see what results would other planets combined with Mercury give under Saturn's aspect:

Answer (3) :

All the factors which you mention in this paragraph I have already explained. It is either not true like Saturn aspecting my Mercury or it is greatly mitigated by other factors like the combustion part.

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Sun in Jupiter's sign aspected by Saturn: the native is unclean, eats other's food, joins bad men and breeds animals.

Answer (4) :

Not true. Jupiter is in the 7th bhava but Saturn is aspecting the 8th bhava. In fact the stellium of my planets are all in the 7th but Saturn rtrogade is aspecting the 8th.

------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Jupiter in own sign aspected by Saturn: the native is dirty, fear stricken, neglected by own people, devoid of happiness / pleasures / virtues.

Answer (5) :

Not true as already mentioned.

------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Venus in Jupiter's sign aspected by Saturn: financial gains, happy, pleasures, fortunate.

So other than Venus all planets related to Mercury are toast. Not to mention what Garga said about the conjunction in 7th house, making them a burnt toast.

Answer (6) :

Not true. Venus here gets its fortune not from Saturn but by being with other natural benefics. The combustion by the Sun for Venus is mitigated as I explained earlier

----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Not sure how the pretentious part is offset at all. In fact from the above writing its seen that its even worse than just being pretentious because of Saturn's aspect. And as per you 7th house in D20 has a more restrictive meaning so it makes the native spiritually pretentious (e.g. look at my Avtar chart, its the master key to the Universe).

Answer (7) :

Not true as already explained.

Have not seen your Avtar chart. Please post your Avtar chart for analysis.

-----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Sure Venus in 7th house maybe conducive to help from God but please cite a real text in all claims and not a mortal. Assuming it gives you help from God then God help you because your D20 really needs it.

About Jupiter only harming a couple of matters: Since D20 is restrictive to spirituality so Jupiter is harming spirituality itself, but even if we ignore that concept ..still your D20 Jupiter is just good for decoration (and nothing more) by being combust, being with enemies and aspected by Saturn.

Answer (8) :

Not true as already explained.

-----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Khoo Hock Leong
Frequent Contributor
Frequent Contributor
Posts:7758
Joined:03 Jan 2009

Re: My Beautiful Visamsa D-20

Post by Khoo Hock Leong » 10 Jun 2017

Longitudes (degrees) are what divide the Zodiac into Rashi, Drekkana, Navamsa etc. Without degrees there are no divisions to begin with. But if you don't have a real answer to combustion, retrogression in your D20 then its understandable because one can only go so far from basic rules until the whole system falls apart.

Answer (9) :

I have already explained earlier about the longtitude part.

My answer to this is about the dimensions, some visible in some levels of the divisional chart and invisible to the rest of the other divisional charts.

Spiritual things you need not have an answer right down to the minutest details. Where there are gaps make reference to the scriptures.

In this case, scriptures says, the relative positioning of the various components may change at the lower divisional charts may change, but it does not destroy the positioning we see at the Rasi Chart level.

This is shown by Krishna opening his mouth to Yashoda (his mortal mother) to see that the planets orbiting the Sun is still the same within the body even though as a mortal, Krishna's body could not possibly have accommodated all the planets who are gigantic. This means the planets are operating within its own dimensions within the body of us but it does not overthrown the relative positioning of the planets at the Rasi Chart level.

As for longitudes, it is only used by men to explain the positioning of the planets at the Rasi Chart level. Full stoop. Nothing more nothing less. But it gets us going into the realms of Vedic Astrology.

------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

rathore
Frequent Contributor
Frequent Contributor
Posts:735
Joined:16 Aug 2012

Re: My Beautiful Visamsa D-20

Post by rathore » 10 Jun 2017

Dear Dev ji,

Divisions are not to be read with yogas, houses, aspects. So this thread is just to make the point that using wrong fundamentals topped with loose derivations is a recipe for 'explaining away anything one wants'. Khoo is using wrong fundaments and loose derivations to make his chart look good and I am using the exact same approach to prove otherwise. The difference being I am quoting classical texts for every verse mentioned but of course they are quoted using wrong fundamentals (treating divisions as Rashi).

So I am sorry if I misled you to think any real content might be on this thread. In short, its just a foolish thread making a real point.

----------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Khoo - Let us say Jupiter and Mercury conjunction is good. OK, but in your D20 two more planets are conjunct with them. The result of that conjunction is quoted earlier, so there is the first blow to the Jupiter-Mercury conjunction. The remaining is finished by Saturn as the 8th lord Reka yog (quoted earlier too). If there was anything good remaining then that is finished by Saravali verses of these planets in Jupiter's sign aspected by Saturn.

Also quoted earlier that three combust planets makes one a fool, so in a D20 context its making you a spiritual fool? Now you can try to talk your planets out of combustion but the above paragraph shows its all gone already (combustion or no-combustion).

And your retrograde Saturn is aspecting your 7th house, you can try to use any obscure deviations to get out of it. But let's just ignore that for a while and look at another Yog in your D20: Getting any boon or making any undertaking successful will be an impossibility for the native if the dispositors of Jupiter, 4th lord and 5th lord are debilitated or combust . . . What does the above Yog mean in a D20 context? It means in this life all your spiritual undertakings will fail and you won't get any spiritual boons either.

Still no answer to how Saturn is retrograde while in 4th from Sun? But let's take the "Krishna opening his mouth with planets orbiting in it" defense. You say that it means everything to the minutest level is the same as on the macro level. Well that means if at the macro level Saturn cannot be retrograde being 4th from Sun, then the same should be the case at minute levels. But somehow is it making an exception just for you?

Longitudes are not used by only men. Astrology was taught by Gods to humans as you may already be aware, so obviously Gods explained how much longitude a Navamsa (3' 20) or a Trimsamsa covers. That's not up for debate, please cite your facts very carefully when discussing with me.

Rathore

Khoo Hock Leong
Frequent Contributor
Frequent Contributor
Posts:7758
Joined:03 Jan 2009

Re: My Beautiful Visamsa D-20

Post by Khoo Hock Leong » 11 Jun 2017

Khoo - Let us say Jupiter and Mercury conjunction is good. OK, but in your D20 two more planets are conjunct with them. The result of that conjunction is quoted earlier, so there is the first blow to the Jupiter-Mercury conjunction. The remaining is finished by Saturn as the 8th lord Reka yog (quoted earlier too). If there was anything good remaining then that is finished by Saravali verses of these planets in Jupiter's sign aspected by Saturn.

Answer (1) :

I already said my stellium of planets is not aspected by Saturn. Here Saturn is retrogade and cast a backward sextile to the 8th bhava, rather than the usual 10th aspect of a usual Staturn which is the 7th bhava where Jupiter's sign is.

I WOULD NOT REPEAT THIS AGAIN. I HOPE YOU DO NOT CAUSE ANY MORE CONFUSION BY REPEATING THIS POINT WHEN I HAVE ALREADY POINTED IT OUT TO YOU.

CHAPTER CLOSED.

-----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Also quoted earlier that three combust planets makes one a fool, so in a D20 context its making you a spiritual fool? Now you can try to talk your planets out of combustion but the above paragraph shows its all gone already (combustion or no-combustion).

Answer (2) :

The conjunction of 3 planets making one a fool I have explained earlier in the thread.

PLEASE DO NOT REPEAT WHAT i HAVE ALREADY ANSWERED.

CHAPTER CLOSED.

-----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

And your retrograde Saturn is aspecting your 7th house, you can try to use any obscure deviations to get out of it. But let's just ignore that for a while and look at another Yog in your D20: Getting any boon or making any undertaking successful will be an impossibility for the native if the dispositors of Jupiter, 4th lord and 5th lord are debilitated or combust . . . What does the above Yog mean in a D20 context? It means in this life all your spiritual undertakings will fail and you won't get any spiritual boons either.

Answer (3) :

Retrogade planets cast a different aspect from a non-retrogade aspects. That is not an obscure deviation.

CHAPTER CLOSED.

----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Still no answer to how Saturn is retrograde while in 4th from Sun? But let's take the "Krishna opening his mouth with planets orbiting in it" defense. You say that it means everything to the minutest level is the same as on the macro level. Well that means if at the macro level Saturn cannot be retrograde being 4th from Sun, then the same should be the case at minute levels. But somehow is it making an exception just for you?

Answer (4) :

This point about Saturn retrogading while being 4th from the Sun I have already explained earlier in the thread.

CHAPTER CLOSED.

-----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Longitudes are not used by only men. Astrology was taught by Gods to humans as you may already be aware, so obviously Gods explained how much longitude a Navamsa (3' 20) or a Trimsamsa covers. That's not up for debate, please cite your facts very carefully when discussing with me.

Answer (5) :

Yes, the longtitude was thought up by men to make sense of the world so as used in the Rasi chart. It was through the senses.

But men are enveloped by maya as our senses are operating in this world so it is steeped in maya when detecting any new tools used to detect any phenomenon. Nevertheless men are still part of God. So God's grace is that God still allow some of these tools to be used for selection in explaining celestial phenomena. But the tools must be used in conjunction from revelation from the scriptures. Then it makes sense. Not the tools to the exclusion of the scriptures.

CHAPTER CLOSED.

----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

I would not reiterate myself anymore on this topic.

Readers, please judge the pertinent facts for yourself.

Thank you.

KHOO

Khoo Hock Leong
Frequent Contributor
Frequent Contributor
Posts:7758
Joined:03 Jan 2009

Re: My Beautiful Visamsa D-20

Post by Khoo Hock Leong » 11 Jun 2017

But yet, when we take also recourse from the scriptures (what is written down) for interpretation, we can also cast it in the tools that we easily understand (yes, understanding of any celestial phenomenon we can switch back and forth between scriptures and tools as we are part of God; this is unlike interpreting worldly phenomenon like fashion fads where only our senses are involved).

All field theory whether light, atomic, gravitational, electrical, magnetic, oscillatory wave etc. comes in two components :

The field itself.
The bodies.

The bodies would be the "hard items" like the planets for gravitational field, the electrons/protons/neutrons/quarks etc. for the atomic field, the moving electrons for the electrical field, the photons for the light field etc........their inherent characteristics remain the same, but how they operate at the different levels of the field concerned undergo subtle change which does NOT include our usual conception of space and time.

OKAY, THIS WOULD BE MY LAST THOUGHT ON THE MATTER.

Thanks.

Khoo

Khoo Hock Leong
Frequent Contributor
Frequent Contributor
Posts:7758
Joined:03 Jan 2009

Re: My Beautiful Visamsa D-20

Post by Khoo Hock Leong » 11 Jun 2017

One more point I want to raise.

You seek what the scripture is trying to tell us that if we are able to shrink ourselves down to the appropriate level of each respective divisional chart, we can see that the planets are orbiting round the Sun in the usual manner.

But now we are at level D-1, the Rasi Chart. So when we look at the divisional chart from our level, we see the planets can be closer or further, and why some planets like Saturn retrogade when they are so close to the Sun, for example. Remember the bodies in each field, the inherent characteristics do not change. Only how they operate within the field changes.

But Krishna was a celestial being, notwithstanding his reincarnation. He was able to show his mum that, hey, by looking into my mouth, actually whatever perspective of the planets you get at the Rasi Chart level, the same exist in the lower level within us (can have many sub-levels as exemplified by the many divisional charts).

Spiritual science requires us to think outside the box, especially in the case when we out input from the scriptures as well.

Okay, that's it.

rathore
Frequent Contributor
Frequent Contributor
Posts:735
Joined:16 Aug 2012

Re: My Beautiful Visamsa D-20

Post by rathore » 11 Jun 2017

I hope these are your last thoughts on the matter because:

1. You have likely started to realize that your D20 is nothing special. On the contrary, its actually bad and the more you post the more scriptural evidence proving otherwise will be added here.

2. These posts are not for you to begin with. Your chart just doesn't matter because its insignificant. These posts are for people who are misled because of misinformed people like yourself. No offense because a lot of people are working with misinformation but you have taken this misinformation to unprecedented levels. 7,070 posts and counting. May the light be with you.

Let's come to your D20 now.

- You said the planets are not that combust. We will accept that for the time being, but that means they are still combust to some level. So the Yog of three combust planets making one a big fool will come to pass at some level. Also the yog of getting no boon and all undertaking failing also comes to pass.

- You said your 7th house is not aspected by Saturn. Well they are but we will accept they are not for the time being. I remember you explained something away in another post using 'Partial aspects'. In this case since your Saturn is aspecting in reverse so it will have a 75% aspect on the 7th house. So all those Saravali results plus the Reka yog are at least 75% true.
And no you have not explained how Saturn can be retrograde in your D20. If you want to do so, please do it properly. The dimensions explanation was already discounted. Come up with something better.

- About the Jupiter in own sign. Keep in mind a planet with its enemies is in an agitated avastha just like someone in their own house with enemies feels very uncomfortable. So any good things that Jupiter could do are marked down significantly.

- About trying to explain away Jupiter and Mercury nice conjunction, remember there are two more planets with them so the result that will also (and much more pronounced) that will come to pass is the Garga result indicated earlier. And now that we even don't have Saturn's aspect on it so it won't be modified and come to pass as is (pretentious, defeated by enemies).

- No actual explanation offered for longitudes. Looks like you don't know what longitudes mean. Without longitudes there can be no D10, D9, D20 to begin with.

But just for you, let's deviate for a while and say there is no combustion and no partial aspect, no Saturn's aspect, no longitudes. In that case let's see another Yog in the chart:

If 10th has association of malefics without benefic influence while Jupiter is agitated (avastha) the native is devoid of good character. In your D20 its even worse because 10th also has aspect of malefics.

Let us see another one: If 9th house has a malefic planet & 9th lord is in a cruel Shastiamsa the native is sinful. Your 9th lord Saturn is in a malefic Martian shastiamsa.

Next yog: 9th house rules pure disposition. A person will be sinful with malefic in 9th house. You have two malefics there.

Next yog: Ketu in 9th house the native is bereft of righteousness

What do these yogas mean? They mean that you should scrap your D20 because it's useless just like your D1.

------------------------------------------------------------------------------


By the way below excerpt from your first post:

Saturn in the 4th retrogading means it is aspecting the 7th in its 10th aspect ie. the 100% forward square. It shows accomplishment and work done, resulting in a further elevation of status. In the 4th of masses but moving towars the house of writing, it shows the person likes to maintain his link with the masses through his writings.

The stelliun is 11th from the Moon showing that it results in mundane gains as well.

And the stellium is 9th from Mars showing condtant dharmic achievement, nothing can go wrong in my forging ahead of my spiritual pursuits.

The stellium is 3rd from the nodes. In divisional charts when the nodes come together, it can be represented as a modified Rahu, Rahu controls Ketu, but modified by Ketu inclinations nevertheless. The stellium is found 3rd from Rahu showing strength ie. the person never waver from his beliefs.

Please explain how is Saturn in the 4th? Because later in this thread you said "Saturn is retrograding in the 10th". So you corrected your mistake.
If that is so then all the derivations you made out of Saturn in 4th and the stellium's relative positions (writing for the masses, mundane gains, spiritual pursuits, beliefs) is just something you made up on the go. I am sure you can make up similar stuff for Saturn in 10th now. LOL.

Lastly, how do you know that the laws surrounding atomic fields and bodies operate in Divisions? If they do (lol), then we can never be sure what navamsa a planet is in owing to the Heisenberg uncertainty principle. Yeah?

However in reality we know the positions of all planets in all divisions. But you said they don't operate at the usual concept of space and time, so that means you don't know what Vimsamsa your planets are in for sure (again uncertainty principle), in which case all your derivations of all your Divisions are likely to be misleading. That's bad news.

And since at the quantum level the same object can be at multiple places at the same time so it means your Saturn in D20 can be in 10th as well as 4th house at the same time! If its in the 4th then its aspecting your 7th house per your obscure rule and all the Saravali bad results are 100% true instead of 75% (partial aspect). Wow.

------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Shall we say chapter closed? Or would you like similar evidence for more of your D-"charts"?

Allwyn
Newly Registered User
Newly Registered User
Posts:3
Joined:21 May 2018

Re: My Beautiful Visamsa D-20

Post by Allwyn » 21 May 2018

Dear Members,

Does 9th lord of Vimsamsa if retrograde in the Rasi Chart indicate cure from Gurus? What if the same 9th lord of Vimsamsa is in Parivartana yoga in Rasi Chart ?

Thanks,
Allwyn

joyd

Re: My Beautiful Visamsa D-20

Post by joyd » 21 May 2018

i call it as a blind question without any birth info and gender..

joyd.

Post Reply