Vargas are NOT to be read as Rashi

[Lex]

It is not good to compel anybody to follow our views, howsoever correct we may be. If Jyotisha were only related to mathematical calculations, every mathematician or even a computing machine would have been a great astrologer. Further, we need to keep in mind the qualities of Daivagya as narrated by Shri Varah Mihir and others. With due regards to all knowledgeable persons in this forum, would request everyone to respect the views of others especially if one is a lady.

Hey mate
Lets starts one by one, since you have entered the arena
1. It is not good... to follow our views, how did you conclude there is compulsion, It was a debate
2. Without mathematics, Jyotisha will not be scientific, so Mathematics is the foremost, it is not you read from wrong preachings in ajournal and copy and paste here.
3. Computers are feeded by human for mathematical prognosis, just like how you use calculator for calculations, if you are sound in mathematics, you will do mentally
3. Who is Varah Mihir.... wasn't living a sage. The sage for jyotisha is Sage Parashara. Read vedas, and Sanskrit, how Sage Parashara been lauded in vedas, please quote or ruminate Sages slokas when you refer or writings in Traditional
4. Who is lady, you are referring? How do you know that poster is a Lady ?. I am aware who is, and what Gender

[rathore]

Swarnim ji,

Request to post only after due diligence.

1. No one says Jyotish is related to Mathematics only. It is just said that 'Mathematics' and 'logic' are an important part of the equation and are therefore required to learn Astrology. There is a verse around that in BPHS itself.

39-40. Eligibility of Issue Fruitful Predictions.

O Maitreya, the words of one, who has achieved skill in mathematics, one, who has put in industrious efforts in the branch of grammar, one, who has knowledge of justice, one, who is intelligent, one, who has knowledge of geography, space and time, one, who has conquered his senses, one, who is skillfully logical (in estimation) and one, who is favorable to Jyotisha, will doubtless be truthful.

2. Anuradha is a man.

3. No one is compelling others to accept their views. People are just presenting actual logic and the wise ones will obviously arrive to the correct conclusion.

[Khoo Hock Leong]

Rathore

The verse that you quoted shows that the other branches of knowledge of truth-seeking does not subsume under jyotish. They stand separately on their own.

[Khoo Hock Leong]

Chandra Lagna

BPHS has to be read jointly with the edicts of the scriptures. That is why logic does not have the full say of everything, and that is why there is not just 108 padas in a person's chart.

[Khoo Hock Leong]

Chandra Lagna

When Mr. Vaughn Paul asked me my views of you as a moderator, I told him you were OK, since your posts before that shows that you are quite firm and do not waver, notwithstanding I did not quite agree with your views.

Try to be neutral in your stance as a moderator notwithstanding you have your personal views on Vedic Astrology. If you have views that tend to side with one party in a particular thread quite strongly, do it outside of the thread, please. Your job first and foremost should be a moderator. You should not take sides in a thread like this. Just my friendly advice.

[Khoo Hock Leong]

Rathore

This means each branch of knowledge has their own technique of seeking the truth. But there are overlaps.

Also since jyotish is the eyes of the Vedas, the techniques used by jyotish is all encompassing in terms of covering all knowledge, and some of the techniques used may not be evidenced in logic and mathematics.

Hence there are some truths in jyotish, which cannot be deciphered by mathematics and logic alone.

Mathematics and logic only subsume under jyotish in terms of knowledge BUT NOT in terms of techniques. The paragraph you quoted, Parasara is talking about techniques. Mathematics and logic do not subsume under jyotish in terms of techniques.

That is why some of results yield by mathematics and logic through their own techniques is not pure divinity knowledge about the Jataka but rather material knowledge to tame nature in general which man finds in his physical environment. That lies the limit.......physical.

[Khoo Hock Leong]

Some changes in the last post.

[Khoo Hock Leong]

Mathematics and logic only subsume under jyotish for DIVINITY knowledge.

[Khoo Hock Leong]

Chandra Lagna :

9th house is Lakshmi Stanth. So Navamsa which is an expansion of the 9th house shows Lakshmi's influence, just like Venus is one of the significators of Navamsa.

Lakshmi represents the globlets of protein and nutrients that swamp the body, making food easily digestible by various parts of the body (organs).

We thus have more than one navamsa for each of us.

[rathore]

Khoo,

The last line of the verse tells us that one who has a hold of these areas, their predictions will not go wrong. And its in the 'Evaluation of Strengths' chapter of BPHS. The verse also does not talk about achieving specialisation in Puranas etc. So one need not bother with Puranas (if that is what you meant by Scriptures) to issue fruitful predictions. Of course it can be a supplement but it is not required.

No one is saying Logic has a full say or not. Astrology depends on calculations of movement of Astronomical bodies. And where there is movement of physical things in space, there is Logic, unerring logic. So the 'Logic' being talked about is the logic related to divisions of Zodiac (where these bodies move). That logic is absolute and not based on whims and fancies.

Also can you tell the source of this statement that 'Navamsa is an expansion of 9th house'?

Would love to know about the source (even if diluted) of this - Lakshmi represents the globlets of protein and nutrients that swamp the body, making food easily digestible by various parts of the body (organs)

[ChandraLagna]

Chandra Lagna

Try to be neutral in your stance as a moderator notwithstanding you have your personal views on Vedic Astrology. If you have views that tend to side with one party in a particular thread quite strongly, do it outside of the thread, please. Your job first and foremost should be a moderator. You should not take sides in a thread like this. Just my friendly advice.

Thanks for the well-intentioned advice, Khoo. While it may not be visible to you or other members, I have wielded the editorial scissors on this thread quite liberally to remove what I think can be offensive content, so rest assured on that front. Being an administrator, or a moderator however does not take away my duties as a student of astrologer to present my views. This thread has demanded of both my roles - that of an administrator, and as a student of astrology.

This is not about taking sides here, and there is no need to do anything outside the forum. This forum is read by many people, at least some of whom are influenced in their study of the subject y what they read here. Many of them will read this long after you and I have stopped writing - and the forum is the means to pass on our learnings. If I have taken sides, its the side of truth, or correctness, of course as I see it. Other members may see it differently, and that's what the debate and forum is all about.

[Khoo Hock Leong]

In JHora each divisional chart has its corresponding Navamsa. But like I told Gautama we do not go by the sofware design alone as it incorporate the precepts of the software designer.

Most of these kind of precepts relating the deities to the various microscopic physical elements of the body are found in modern books written by Sanskrit scholars and they normally get their interpretations from the Vedas themselves. I have an earlier blog on this introducing these books.

[rathore]

JHORA is originally built on SJC opinions, which are still reflected to this day. So custom Divisions like D9 of D30 is exclusively an SJC / PVR opinion. There is an Astrologer on Internet who takes D180000 or some chart like that into consideration as well. Whatever that means.

[Khoo Hock Leong]

Rathore

The sloaka you quote can only refer to techniques and not knowledge ie. outcomes.

If it refers to knowledge, it makes no sense to quote the various knowledge in a book of jyotish BPHS which only refers to divine knowledge.

Since it refers to techniques and the techniques are not subsumed within one another based on the sentence structure, the techniques used for jyotish can overlap with the techniques for mathematics and logic, but mathematics and logic are not the be all and end all techniques, some of its techniques can be used for other things like I mentioned, and jyotish has other techniques to cover its other spectrum of divine knowledge.

[Khoo Hock Leong]

Navamsa is an expansion of the 9th house. Vedic Astrologers including Astroboy has been using the 9th house to see the father. The Sun in Navamsa shows you the dharma of the person.

It is the 9th harmonic chart because it divides the Rasi chart into 1/9th portion in its construction and Navamsa means 9th division. If it does not refer to the 9th bhava, which bhava does it refer to then?

[Khoo Hock Leong]

Have you ever though how Jyotish charts can tie to a person's fortune or misfortune in all areas? It must be something relating to the planetary energies that get linked with our microscopic physical elements. Even without recourse to the books I mentioned earlier, you should know explanation has to be something to do with energy bands, theoretical physics, cosmology, quantum mechanics, statistical mechanics etc. but in a way that you need a Turing machine to translate the scriptures alphabet by alphabet to the settings of modern physics and not the physical geometry which you and Chandra Lagna is talking about.

And yet modern physics is still evolving, whereas the knowledge of all the ancient scriptures has been settled eons ago.

[Suresh_Chauhan]

[quote=rathore post_id=243174 time=1504717206 user_id=8207]
2. Anuradha is a man.
[/quote]

Excuse me but what do you mean by that? Anuradha is a man.

But everyone is referring to her in the female gender, so it is not true? strange. How do you know

[vj1981]

Hello Gurus - Sorry to intrude as I am not even a novice astrologer . I believe, Astrology is a skill(in Arts, Science and Math probably) and is meant for helping human kind by letting them know the possible future beforehand. Since it is a skill, so I think it can be measured and recorded overtime so as to come to a conclusion on the prediction methodology.

Just thought of sharing my two cents.

[Khoo Hock Leong]

Time is something which humans coin up because of the actvities we do in this world which is maya. For the higher lokas, everything happened so fast in humans' eyes which to the Gods is just a mode of happening.

Yama who is a God that governs time was originally a so called person on Earth in a past yuga, which is Bali. He is the only God that best personifies time.

So astrology as practised by Ganesa who is a deva, is not a skill, but is a divine activity, measured by how great a good impact it has on humankind. We can also use this as a basis of measurement when we do predictions in Vedic Astrology.

[Khoo Hock Leong]

To clarify further, only Yama REPRESENTS AND USES time. His carrier is the bull which is the slowest.

Sesha and Shiva only REPRESENTS time.

So Yama is the main deity concerning time.

[rathore]

Khoo

The sloke is broken down here for ease:

1. Talks about 'words coming true' and that is the outcome of Jyotish.

2. Talks about being knowledgeable in many areas (Grammar, Space, Time, Geography, Mathematics, Justice)

3. Mentions having a certain attitude towards Jyotish / life (senses in control, being favorable)

4. Mentions about being INTELLIGENT and LOGICAL.

So its just laying down a foolproof path to be excellent in Jyotish. Sure someone devoid of all of the above and using Tarot cards may also give correct predictions but its hard to say if the person is just doing calculated guesswork (knowingly or unknowingly) or has a gifted intuition (by the way most who claim do not possess it).

Where is this sloke talking about Techniques? It is talking about a way of life to become a real Jyotish. Because all the elements it mention overlap significantly in judging a nativity. Knowing about a Puran or Ithihas does not help much in judging a nativity, maybe a little bit. For the most part it just leads to whims and fancies for the un-intelligent and / or illogical ones.

And again no one is saying Mathematics and Logic are 'be all and end all'. But Mathematics and knowledge of Space are the basis of calculations without which we can't even know which planet is transiting what Sign / Navamsa. The whole idea of this thread is to apply one's own reasoning to how aspects are formed and how the zodiac is divided in the classic literature. You nail that and there will be no doubt remaining.

Please don't refer to any Vedic Astrologer, or any member. That is just disgraceful because the basis of this thread is - Apply your own mind to the literature
And just so you know Astroboy moved away from D chart dance. Obviously after spending time with actual Jyotish texts (and ignoring Internet articles).

About your question of how Jyotish ties to fortune / misfortune being controlled by Planets: The movement of planets is just an indicator of the results and not the cause. Just like Tarot cards are not the cause but an indicator. The cause is TIME. But this is a whole other topic. So don't bother relating it to Quantum mechanics, Physics etc. The subjects which I am sure you have little to no idea about anyway.

One can talk about all the Deities they want but really you don't need much of it to be a Jyotish. Parashar has laid down the syllabus of how to be one and that is more than enough.

[GNE]

Astrology certainly is a "skill", or rather many skills....
one who has better intuition, better math skills, better memory (if one can memorize the meaning of all the placements and remember many yogas), better counseling skill(if giving certain kinds of readings ), and overall better grasp of astrological and astronomy concepts would surely be a better astrologer than one who does not have good "skills" in those above areas.

It is also a divine activity, yes.
Though that does not mean it isn't also something that one could be more skilled at than others - no matter how divine those others are.

Some of the best readings I've ever received or seen were from astrologers who just happen to memorize all kinds of calculation rules and what each planet is doing in each house/sign together and can pull out 100+ yoga's from memory, yet had zero (or very little) spiritual/religious element to their work.
Also, I've seen and had some terribly inaccurate readings from those who were very "divine", priests,etc. the kind who do meditations all day, but I guess lack other "skills" .

A combination of both would be ideal I suppose,
but I'm just saying vj1981 wasn't totally incorrect in my opinion.

[Lex]

Chandra Lagna

Try to be neutral in your stance as a moderator notwithstanding you have your personal views on Vedic Astrology. If you have views that tend to side with one party in a particular thread quite strongly, do it outside of the thread, please. Your job first and foremost should be a moderator. You should not take sides in a thread like this. Just my friendly advice.

Thanks for the well-intentioned advice, Khoo. While it may not be visible to you or other members, I have wielded the editorial scissors on this thread quite liberally to remove what I think can be offensive content, so rest assured on that front. Being an administrator, or a moderator however does not take away my duties as a student of astrologer to present my views. This thread has demanded of both my roles - that of an administrator, and as a student of astrology.

This is not about taking sides here, and there is no need to do anything outside the forum. This forum is read by many people, at least some of whom are influenced in their study of the subject y what they read here. Many of them will read this long after you and I have stopped writing - and the forum is the means to pass on our learnings. If I have taken sides, its the side of truth, or correctness, of course as I see it. Other members may see it differently, and that's what the debate and forum is all about.

Beautifully articulated CL. Freedom of Expression boss Freedom of Expression. Right and wrong in astrology, anyone can chip in astrological with mathematics and logical way.

This will shut that once for all, who want to use our sages system in an absurd manner

[Lex]

2. Anuradha is a man.

Excuse me but what do you mean by that? Anuradha is a man.

But everyone is referring to her in the female gender, so it is not true? strange. How do you know

That's the problem.
A nakshtra name id, doesn't mean a Female gender.
Poor querant, addressing so called "Female" id, and in bargaining if Female querant also reveals some of privy infos, what will happen, you guess?
It is a cheat, if a man and addressed as Female, poster didn't correct the querant on the Gender. Takes the thrill of calling him as her ( what is the intent????)
I think going forward, forum has to disclose , this id person is a male not a female etc or Trans-gender?
Atleast, querant are saved

[ChandraLagna]

Khoo,

Since you’ve written a few posts above in this thread addressing me specifically in some of them, please allow me to address the points mentioned by you.