Vargas are NOT to be read as Rashi

For discussion on divisional charts: navamsha, drekkana, saptamsha, dashamsha, etc.
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rathore
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Re: Vargas are NOT to be read as Rashi

Post by rathore » 06 Apr 2018

Gautam ji,

There are some yogas that require planets in certain navamsa or require them in vaishekamsa but sub-divisions are mainly used as a measure of strength. And D1 is also a division of the 360 degree zodiac, just like any other sub-division (D9, D10 etc.) of the zodiac. So strength (of planets and signs) is the quantification of results derived from planets in Lagna chart provided they are not blocked. This is Astrology in one line for me.

A planet can gain strength through many means even when debilitated or combust or in inimical divisions. Here is an example of some of the sources of strength:

viewtopic.php?f=1&t=37379#p256399

Majority of Yogas are House /House-lord based. Handful of Yogas are purely Sign-based or relative placements based, and some require planets to be in certain navamsa (or any other sub-division) or use navamsa (any other sub-division) depositor to form but the Yogas starts in D1 itself. There is also a purely D9 based result that says if all planets are in good navamsa then the native becomes a King. Also yogas of the nature of planet in a certain navamsa (whatever Sign it maybe in) aspected by another planet in D1 = xyz result.

As you know Houses only exist in D1 and majority of Yogas are House /House-lord based so that's why you felt the results of D1. If the planet were in own navamsa as well, then the results are more noticeable (whenever they are delivered), simply because own navamsa adds to strength. Vaishekamsa provide even more strength.



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Re: Vargas are NOT to be read as Rashi

Post by Gautam59 » 06 Apr 2018

Yeah I agree as my Saturn is Vargottama... Actually I have heard that if a planet is very much favourably placed in Lagna Chart but at the same time if it's placed in inimical Navamsa than most of the good results will be subdued...so that's why I was surprised as my 4 planets are placed in inimical Navamsa but still I got very good results from those planets.

Secondly how should we compare Shadbala and Vimposaka Bala. Suppose if a planet gets high points in Shadbala whereas it gets average points in Vimposaka Bala, so what will be strength of that planet?

So which system we should prefer more and which system has more weightage as they both are used to determine planetary strei : Shadbala or Vimposaka Bala?

rathore
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Re: Vargas are NOT to be read as Rashi

Post by rathore » 10 Apr 2018

Many statements in texts regarding results and strength (such as the 'inimical' navamsa' one) talk in extremes. One is either a king or a beggar or some planet is powerful or powerless. They are just getting the point across. This means the 'results' as well as 'strengths' are to be evaluated overall before declaration. Plus unless a planet is involved in ruinous yogas then it has no 'bad' results to give. And then there are placements that talk about if a person will be happy as a child, youth, middle age, old and they also intervene. That's why one can be living a bad life filled with poverty but still be happy during certain period of their lives.

To the Shadbala and Vimsopka bala question, either of these will give strength. Both of these are sub-systems created to evaluate strengths in a quantitative manner but really an Astrologer who understands strengths can do without them. For e.g. quadruped signs are strong in the 10th house, 10th house is the strongest house generally, now if Mars gets there in night time while in own navamsa in its Southernly course and is retrograde then it is extremely potent. The Astrologer now knows the planet is strong and unless it is blocked by other factors (also to be evaluated), he can be sure the results will come to pass.

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Re: Vargas are NOT to be read as Rashi

Post by Nitin21 » 10 Apr 2018

rathoreji. clarity and conviction of your thougts is amazing. very well put across
..

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Re: Vargas are NOT to be read as Rashi

Post by Gautam59 » 10 Apr 2018

Thanks Rathore Sir for your clarification. And I think Your Sentence "person will be happy as a child, youth, middle age, old and they also intervene" is indicating towards planetary Avasthas. If yes than here I have a confusion that whenever both Jupiter and Moon will be in their deep Exalation, they will be Mrit (Nil Results) in one Avastha and Jagrata (Full results) in another Avastha!!!

And Albeit same for Saturn because whenever Saturn will be in Deep Exalation (20 Deg Libra) than it will be Vriddha (only 10% results) in one Avastha and will be Jagrata (100% Result) at the same time in another Avastha. So how do we evaluate this?? I'm totally stumped.

I have seen many charts where Lagna Lord is Mrita and at the same time No planet is being placed in Ascendant, and still they are Living Healthy and prosperous life!! I mean how can a person eben live if his Ascendant Lord is Dead according to BPHS!!!

Also is there any concept Called like that if a planet is within the 3 Degrees of Ascendant than that planet deemed to be strong irrespective of its Avasthas? Although I didn't found any such thing mentioned in Classics!! Is it true?? Please Clarify as I'm in deep confusion!!

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Re: Vargas are NOT to be read as Rashi

Post by rathore » 20 Apr 2018

Thanks Astroduffer ji :-)

Gautam ji, the native being happy in certain ages are different yogas unrelated to avasthas. A planet can attain strength through many means, so a planet maybe in dead avastha but if in deep exaltation then it is strong. In short, the strengths are not linear calculations all the time and therefore overriding factors are to be considered. I think in Hora Saar (or some other Yavan book) peculiar results are associated to each type of strength gained by a planet. Personally I am not sure how valuable those are.

Some Wrestlers have more strength in their arms, others in their shoulders or their core or legs, whatever giving each Wrestler certain advantages over others. But overall they are all strong.

I think the planet nearing the Lagnam degree verse is in the classics, can't remember where, so please don't quote me on it. Think it says that such a planet is better equipped to give its results.

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Re: Vargas are NOT to be read as Rashi

Post by iseek » 19 Nov 2018

A very insightful thread. I have a doubt though, if we say that Vargas are not to be looked as charts, does that mean that the neech bhanga doesn't happen in Vargas? And a planet which is in neech navamsha is to be taken as it is. For example: let's say Kumbh navamsha, Venus is in virgo and Mercury is in Pisces in the navamsha, can this be called a neech bhanga in Navamsha and that the impact is neutralised?

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Re: Vargas are NOT to be read as Rashi

Post by majestik108 » 21 Nov 2018

@iseek, Neechbhanga doesn't happen isolated from a planet's position in the rashi is the point.

So if a planet is neecha in rashi and neecha in navamsa, there is no neechabhanga following ONE of the rules for neechabhanga existing. It may still have its debilitation canceled through the many other means.

The point is that divisional charts do not have houses, nakshatras, etc. as they aren't actual 'charts' in the sense that they do not represent the actual positions of the planets in the sky when the person was born. Therefore, divisional charts, in my view, are to be looked at solely for sign placement, which will basically tell you how a person's planet's natural behaviour in a person is modified as per the environment represented by the varga in question.

A great hint for this is the fact that while vargottam is mentioned in Jyotish classics, the 'bhavottam' concept is never mentioned.

iseek
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Re: Vargas are NOT to be read as Rashi

Post by iseek » 21 Nov 2018

Thanks majestic. I think I wasn't able to explain my doubt better.

When we see a neech planet in rasi, we see for neech bhanga possibilities in rasi and positives in Navamsha also. For e.g let's say a planet is neech in rasi, there is no neech bhanga in rasi, but it's ucch in Navamsha, then we say that the planet is not to be considered very weak.

On the other hand, let's say in rasi the planet is inimically placed, and in Navamsha the planet is in neech navamsha now my question is can we look for a neech bhanga of navamsha considering the factors of neech bhanga, given the positions as stated in my earlier example? Or do we say that there is no neech bhanga and Mercury continues to be in a neech navamsha, thereby being weak.

bhimabhishma

Re: Vargas are NOT to be read as Rashi

Post by bhimabhishma » 27 Nov 2018

Rathore ji
Your post is an inspiration to me . Thanks for the insight provided as I did have the doubt for quite some time.
As you have pointed out Sri Santhanam didn't mention exactly to apply the rules of rasi here.
He mentions to realise the strength of the planets before deciding. In the absence of any separate rules, it is implied to follow the existing ones. But vargas have additional rulerships . D1 is the front office and vargas are part of back office supporting the activities of front office.

The vargas are not different from zodiac. They are finer resolutions locating the exact position of planets. The basic numbering of planets with respect to lagna will be the same and can't be different from D1.
Vargas zoom in to ascertain the strength of the planetary aspect with reference to its D1 position. Intra aspect within a varga is not going to alter drastically D1.

Vargas have separate ruler ships. A planet is assesed on this basis mainly for its effect in D1.
It denotes the degree of intensity of benefic or malefic results that planet may yield during its periods.But the counting in Varga charts on position of planets and planets as we do in D1 contributes a over all effect.
If we have 6/8 position of any benefic in D1 and D9, it is not auspicious. When this counting is applicable, it implies that other rules are also applicable. Without this aspect concept,how to read D30?

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