DRIK VS SRI SURYA SIDDHANTA .

[astroboy]

Good day all ,

As we all know J Hora has now come out with a New feature in the 7.5 version a horoscope can be made using Shri Surya Sidhanta . The internet has been abuzz with claims and counter claims, There are people who are in support , and others who are out to denounce P.V.N.R. ji . I want to initiate a healthy debate on this forum with a open mind .

First of all let us under stand what the hell these two Sidhanta's are all about . Sidhanta is a Sanskrit term, which roughly translates as the Doctrine or the Tradition, or rather a school of thought .

Now Surya Siddhanta is believed to have been authored by Sri Varahamihira. This is what P.V.N.R. ji has to say about SSS . I am doing a Mere cut and past job so that we dont have to go hunting for information on the Net .


To be continued,

[astroboy]

Namaste friends,

I released JHora 7.5 with SSS (Sri Surya Siddhanta) support yesterday. I have already received mails from a few people who tried it and are kind of disoriented, noticing that their divisional charts have changed considerably.

As people may have realized by now, use of SSS is a big game changer for the Jyotish world. Depending on one's perspective, this is either "retrogressing to the rejected past" or "back to the good old days". Of course, this could also turn out to be "back to the future".

Those who believe that the calculations of drik siddhanta are working perfectly may kindly *ignore* SSS. Those who are curious may continue to experiment and comapre the two models of planetary calculation with several examples.

But a few factors in favor of SSS:

(1) Ancient astrologers and even astrologers upto the last century or so
used SSS. Even today, some traditional astrologers stick to SSS and stay
away from drik siddhanta.
(2) Varahamihira extolled SSS.
(3) Several nadi granthas used SSS.
(4) Most astrologers today rely mostly on rasi chart and only do a lip service to divisional charts. It could be because the divisional charts they use are incorrect and hence unreliable and hence they are forced to rely on rasi chart, which is common to everybody born in a 2 hour window!

I expect most people to try SSS, not like it and leave it. A few who hang on may have to embark on a journey to rediscover the Jyotish fundamentals and rebuild their knowledge of Jyotish as taught by Parasara.

For reference, I want to give a personal account of my own journey with SSS so far.

PROLOG:

I went through a spiritual transformation in 2005-2006 timeframe and one of the side effects was a loss of interest in astrology. If somebody watching a drama is taking the drama very seriously, then any principles that allow one to anticipate what happens in the next scene are useful. On the other hand, take one who manages to go outside of the drama room, sees the world outside, comes back into the drama room and watches the drama again. Such a person may fully understand that it is just a drama and not reality and watch it without much
attachment to what happens in the drama. One may no longer take the drama as seriously as before. Suddenly, principles that allow one to anticipate the next scene may not be as interesting. As it is not real and just a drama, what is the big deal about knowing what comes next? What is more important and useful for people is to realize that it is just a drama and to learn to be *unaffected* by what comes next, instead of being able to *anticipate* what comes next!

After a couple of years of passive involvement in Jyotish, my spiritual master told me that my job with Jyotish was not done yet and important contributions remained to be made. So he asked me to get *back* to Jyotish with vigor and to think about the problems of Jyotish seriously. He told me some predictive methods as simple as 1+1=2 need to be left for the future generations and possibly made a part of JHora, to increase faith of general public and re-establish respect for Jyotish. He said that was the next task after publishing the homam manuals. I was searching but did not find any such principles. Though I had worked on Jyotish for a long time and even made many correct predictions to many people, I did not have any simple and replicable principles really. Nor did I find them in any book, though I read many classics and books by many popular authors and gave every approach due consideration.

A couple of years back, Sri Vinay Jha contacted me privately and told me to use traditional siddhanta instead of modern astronomy with traditional Jyotish. I read some of his mails on yahoogroups and thought he was too opinionated, blunt and aggressive, though I also noticed his deep respect for rishis, Vedas and Sanatana Dharma tradition. But I had inertia, having invested too much of my time and energy into drik siddhanta already.

I still wanted to try his calculations. I tried to download his software Kundlee, but it did not install on my computer. He apparently used an outdated version of Visual Basic that was not supported by Microsoft anymore. So I could not try his software. I looked at his website, but could not decipher his researches in rain forecast etc. I could decipher his natal Vimsottari dasa examples, but was not impressed. He seemed to take planets at 5 levels and somehow justify each for the event. If each of those 5 planets could give the result, why in that order (i.e. planet X mahadasa, planet Y antardasa etc)? Unimpressed, I ignored him.

He contacted me again in July 2010 on vedic-astrology yahoogroup. I expressed interest in SSS, but said I was unable to install his Kundlee software. He made an offer to give me his visual basic source code for planetary calculation as per SSS, if I wanted to add SSS support in JHora. Encouraged by my spiritual master to pursue this path, I worked to integrate SSS into JHora. The idea was that it might or might not be correct or useful, but I'd make it available to researchers anyway. But, once I added it, I got a strong intuition that I should evaluate it myself, without getting biased by my heavy prior investment in drik siddhanta, in terms of time and energy.

My spiritual master enquired a few times if SSS was working well. I told him "I can explain things the same way, no better and no worse. Basically, I am good at seeing shapes in clouds. I was doing it well earlier and I can do it well now. I see nothing that is more consistent or simpler or more replicable with this." He encouraged me to keep working and said, "keep the churn going. You spent your life accumulating a lot of Jyotish knowledge and you are churning all of it now to synthesize something. This is important and keep going."

There were times when I nearly decided to give up on SSS, just release the the software and move on, because I did not see anything more striking in charts and dasas using SSS. On 3 occasions, I made a prasna. I begged my Mother to give me direction, "I am casting a prasna chart. If you want me to keep going on SSS, please make Jupiter aspect lagna in D-24 now by more than 85%." Each of the three times, Jupiter had a more than 90% aspect on lagna in D-24. These small things gave me temporary confidence and motivation to keep going.

Moreover, oneday I realized a signifcance of the time when Sri Vinay Jha gave me SSS formulas. It turned out to be just after I had finished 1,000 Chandi homas at my house over a 3-year period. That possibly being a significant milestone, I thought, what came to me after it may be good in the long run.

In the same timeframe, I happened to read a couple of quotes from Vimalananda (whom I greatly respect, for insights in spiritual matters) related to how planets affect us. He said regarding Saturn that it is not the physical planet Saturn but the celestial being Saturn that affects our minds. In another place, he said rishis knew how to calculate physical Moon's position as well as that of celestial Moon and used the *latter* for astrological purposes. This made me wonder if drik siddhanta (which computes the positions of *physical* Moon) was indeed a wrong model for Jyotisha as Sri Vinay Jha asserted.

But the proof of the pudding was in eating it. I could be convinced only if I could find principles that worked more consistently than with normal drik siddhanta. So I kept searching.

I kept trying so many totally different things. There were too many parameters to play with. The vast reading and experimentation I did in the last 17 years of active Jyotish research left me with so many parameters, techniques and paradigms. I read many classics, I read many modern authors, I actively contemplated various ideas, I coded many ideas/formulas and experimented. I put it all to use.

After much experimentation and struggle, I had glimpses of light that was convincing enough for me. I stumbled upon techniques that worked in a very simple and consistent manner in a good percentage of charts I tried (e.g. Vimsottari dasa evaluated and judged in divisional charts, Chara dasa evaluated and jusged in divisional charts). I was enthused.
But note that as I found light and walked towards it, I had to rebuild some of my previous ideas and refine my Jyotish fundamentals.

For example, we are used to considering a planet occupying or aspecting the 7th house or 7th lord or otherwise having to do with 7th house to give marriage. But then, a lot of planets may be associated with the 7th house in some way or the other. Can they all give marriage? How do you pick one?

If you have some important work at a government office, can you get it done through *anybody* who works there or visits there or lives in the vicinity? Of course not. Not everybody may have the right influence or care about you. On the other hand, an influential person who cares about you can get the work done even if he is working in another office.
Similarly, not every planet with a link to the 7th house (of them, there will be many!) may be capable of or be predisposed to giving marriage. A planet having nothing to do with 7th house may be capable of giving marriage.

For example, Taurus rises in my D-9 and Saturn is a yogakaraka in a quadrant (4th) and aspecting lagna (by 10th aspect). Using strict Parasari principles, he is a very auspicious planet in my D-9 and his dasa can give marriage. The way Parasara defined functional benefics, neutral planets and functional malefics is far more nuanced than people use today. For example, 8th lord may or may not be malefic. There are clear guidelines given by Parasara to judge the functionality of planets in a chart.

Instead of using the core fundamentals clearly outlined by Parasara, we use thumbrules that qualify many planets for an event. This actually complicates chart analysis and increases the role of luck in predictions. When I used SSS for planetary calculations, I realized that I could go back to Parasara's core fundamentals and apply them in a consistent manner. But, like a sailor used to walking on a moving ship may be fumbling when he reaches the shore and starts walking on solid ground, I was used to contrived thumbrules and tended to use such
reasoning even after switching to SSS. So I had to re-read Parasara and refine my understanding. I am still in process of re-building my fundamentals.

Best regards,
Narasimha

[kunalbhardwaj27]

by astroboy » Fri Mar 04, 2011 12:57 am
In the same timeframe, I happened to read a couple of quotes from Vimalananda (whom I greatly respect, for insights in spiritual matters) related to how planets affect us. He said regarding Saturn that it is not the physical planet Saturn but the celestial being Saturn that affects our minds. In another place, he said rishis knew how to calculate physical Moon's position as well as that of celestial Moon and used the *latter* for astrological purposes. This made me wonder if drik siddhanta (which computes the positions of *physical* Moon) was indeed a wrong model for Jyotisha as Sri Vinay Jha asserted.

[astroboy]

Some thoughts :


Now , Let us get somethings straight . J Hora 7.5 seems to be the only competent software in the world , to my knowledge . Non of the other softwares gives the user the option to switch to SSS. Including Parashara Light .

Noted astrologers of repute have been predicting peoples lives left right and centre from the past 100 years using Drik Sidhanta . Many have used divisional charts to the hilt and come up with wonder full explainations . P.V.N.R. Ji has gone so far as to analyse the D24 chart with Drik Sidhanta and come up with convincing answers . So now the question arises ....... Did we all go wrong some where ?? I have said it once and I will say it again . We can explain any event any which ways . I will explain my life with Dhanu and Makara convincingly . This is the main reason That I do not believe in BTR . I personally think we just fit in things to suit the situation .

Talking about making changes , Another point of contention , and this is something that has been burning my mind from a long time . We have moved from the traditional moon based analysis to a more narrowly defined Lagna based analysis . But yet we start the Dasha from the Moon . People have ridiculed and attacked me personally and denounced Marriage Compatability because it's matched taking the Moon sign into consideration , all the while forgetting that the Vimshottari Dasha scheme is running from the Moon's Nakshatra. How many people have analysed a chart shifting the Vimshottari dasha scheme to the Lagna ?? . This is why, I stressed that matching has to be done from the Lagna too . Sadly the chance that the horoscopes will match will be remote, when you consider both Moon and Lagna parameters , and hence I give more importance to synastry and the traditional Moon based Compatability Tests . Not that I dont match the horoscopes from the lagna also . Why I raked up this issue is that with SSS , the dasha scheme goes hay wire all over the place causing some serious nightmares . No doubt we can explain things with the new dasha schemes too, But at the end of the day , The fact that the dasha scheme is affected , goes to show what a serious shift SSS can induce .

I am not too concerned about the shift in the placement of Divisional charts . Let me tell you why . To be honest , how many people venture beyond the D9 Chart . we are yet to learn how the analyse the D9 properly . I am convinced that the D9 has far greater potential that the Rashi chart . Let me explain why .

To be continued ,

[astroboy]

April 26 1973
00 26 AM
Mangalore

April 26 1973
3: 15 AM
Amsterdam

You will notice that all the planet in the rashi chart are the same . The Navamsha is nearly the same , except that the Moon has shifted . The window for the Navamsha lagna to shift is approx 12-13 minutes . This narrows down the window considerably from the standard 2 hours to 12-13 minutes . I would not go any more further than the D9 because the Birth time error is anywhere between 5 - 8 minutes minimum any where in the world ....... even with modern time keeping . Its another fact that we are yet to solve what is the actual " Time of birth ". some say its when the Umbilical cord is cut , some say it's when the first breath is taken . there is a minimum of two minutes between this drama . So its risky to speculate on the lagnas beyond D9 . No doubt Parsahara made the D9 equal to the Rashi chart .

There is a saying that "If the rashi is the tree , the Navamsha is the fruit " . A strong healthy looking tree ( D1) need not necessarily yield good fruits . On the flip side a ugly old tree can yield the sweetest of fruits . This is why the D9 has to be looked at closely . problem is wrong birth times make it difficult to fix the D9 lagna . Now we have to contend with SSS , which shifts the D9 planetary positions greatly .

To be continued ,

[astroboy]

There is another analogy which says " If the D1 is a Radio , The Navamsha is the Signal from the Radio station " A bang and olufsen is as good as dead if the quality of the signal is bad . A strong signal can make a 100 Rupee chinese radio sound really good . This is why the D9 becomes so important when we analyse a horoscope . SSS has changed the dimensions of the D9 and this needs some introspection .

[astroboy]

Definition of Drik Siddhanta as per Sri P.V.N.R. Ji ,

"Drik siddhanta" is based on seeing planets in the sky and refining the calculations based on practical observation.

In the age when these formulas were devised, they were probably accuarate and it was probably convenient to use the formulas. But, the inaccuracy slowly kept increasing with time and today they are quite inaccurate compared to NASA models of planetary movement.

Please note that Maharshi Parasara supported using "drik siddhanta".

If you physically look at Venus and Saturn in the sky and find the angle between them, longitudes found using drik siddhanta will match that angle (irrespective of whether you use Lahiri ayanamsa or Raman ayanamsa or Krishnamoorthy ayanamsa).

But if you want to use drik siddhanta calculations using any ayanamsa, you can use JHora and change ayanamsa. The default is Lahiri/Chitrapaksha ayanamsa, which is the most popular in India. Raman ayanamsa, Krishnamurthy ayanamsa and several other ayanamsas are also available.

[astroboy]

The good and bad of SSS


The Surya Siddhanta estimates the diameters of the planets. The estimate for the diameter of Mercury is 3,008 miles, an error of less than 1% from the currently accepted diameter of 3,032 miles. It also estimates the diameter of Saturn as 73,882 miles, which again has an error of less than 1% from the currently accepted diameter of 74,580. Its estimate for the diameter of Mars is 3,772 miles, which has an error within 11% of the currently accepted diameter of 4,218 miles. It also estimated the diameter of Venus as 4,011 miles and Jupiter as 41,624 miles, which are roughly half the currently accepted values, 7,523 miles and 88,748 miles, respectively ( If SSS could get Saturn right , Being farther than Shukra and Guru , I wonder if NASA have got their figures right on Shukra and Guru .

[kandhan]

Deepakji

let us assume that NASA is wrong coz i really like to listen to mantra pushpam.

[astroboy]

I picked this up from the Net . Some material in support of Drik Sidhanta.

The history of Hindu astronomy makes reference to 18 Sidhantas viz -Surya, Pitamaha (Brahma ), Vyasa, Vasishta, Atri, Parasara, Kasyapa, Narada, Garga, Marichi, Manu, Angiras, Lomasa (Romaka?), Paulisa, Yavana, Chyavana, Brigu and Saunaka. This is the opinion of many acharyas including Mihira. The list may slightly with some sages including the some names and omitting some other name. Out of these 18 acharyas, and the Siddhantic texts their unique astrologia traditions provide, it seems that there were only 5 names to have merited the admiration of Varahamihira or it is also possible that all other Sidhantas got lost by the time of Varaha Mihira.

Varahamihira in his Pancha Sidhantika (which is a summary of 5 Sidhantas) clearly says Siddhanta made by Paulisa (Paulisa Siddhanta) is accurate, near to it stands the Siddhanta of Romaka (Romaka Siddhanta), but more accurate is the Surya (Surya Siddhanta), and Paitamaha (Brahma; Paitamaha Siddhanta) and Vasishta (Vasishta Siddhanta) are not accurate (means become obsolete by the time of Varahamihira itself).

Here I take opportunity to answer 2 sections of people. One, those like Vinay Jha, who is spreading word that the Saura Paksha is accurate and we should use it ‘without any change’. The truth is - it is always good to test its efficiency like what Varahamihira did. Varahamihira himself tells us that in the absence of proper updating, in the changing times many Sidhantas became obsolete. The inherent advice to us is that – we should test the efficiency and accuracy of the Siddhanta or astrologia mathematical system we use.

Second, to dharma Pravarthaka's (Hindu religious propagators), who in the name of protecting Hindu dharma, is actually abusing acharyas. They usually take only what they want from these quotations, and is spreading lies that everything we got is from Greek,Chaldean, Babylon or even European places! Where as they either forget or is close eyed towards the fact that Varahamihira also mentioned about Vasishta and Brhama Sidhantas and said that they are not working properly now. Does it not show its antiquity? Is it not clear that ‘since with time Sidhantas become obsolete and demands revision’ that ‘Brahma Siddhanta and Vasishta Siddhanta are much older than the other available siddhantas of that time’? Other wise what is the meaning of Varahamihira saying that those calculations are not at par with present day planetary phenomenon since no further improvements has been made by successive generation of scholars?

They don’t have any proof to support their claims from respective cultures. Here in this list of 5 Sidhantas it clearly and separately mentions Yavana and Surya Sidhantas, which clearly indicate that they does not borrow anything from each other. But still these people enthusiastically claim that Indian astrological knowledge came from other cultures such as Greek or Rome! This reveals their real aim, and also that that these people are only interested in distorting facts and twisting everything.

Thus the above statements also prove the Saura paksha orthodoxy claims such as that of Vinay Jha also don’t hold water since here as it is clear that Varahamihira is speaking about physical phenomenon than treating the astrologia calculation as some divine phenomenon. Astrology was not a religion for him but a subject of practical usefulness. If astrology is something that has got existence only on spiritual and divine plane alone, then what is the need for so many Sidhantas from different school of thoughts (Rishi Kulas)? (Rishi kulas: Rishi Kulas ashrams or centre of learning where each Rishi with the Kula originators designation was the head of it). Why Varahamihira and many later scholars tried to improve it? Why they even said that only a few Sidhantas are available now and that even out of the few available only some is working and that out of the whole Surya Siddhanta is superior to other Sidhantas? Is it not true that - all these point out that all Sidhantas need updating (Sidhantas should be updated on time) by individuals with dedicated time and scholarly pursuits?

Let us come back to Prasna Marga. Prasna Marga is a condensed compilation of 100s of texts. It made obsolete many ancient texts because of its own popularity. Many books mentioned in it is not available now. Prashnamarga belongs to 14th century AD while Pancha Siddhantika of Varaha Mihira belongs to 6th century AD). Prasna Marga gives a similar opinion - It says Brahma Siddhanta is accurate, Romaka is more accurate but Surya Siddhanta is most accurate the last two (Vasishta and Paulisa) are archaic in nature. Also not to mention the Arya bhata, Bhaskara, Brahma Gupta and the like; the mathematical astronomers and their Siddhantic texts, which too contributed for Ganita skanta (astrologia mathematics). I think and assume that, this all point to the very fact that, all these Sidhantas are discussing about seeing actual position (physical position) of planets – i.e. Suryadi Navagrahas (9 planets). It is more clear when they discuss about eclipses (with some non mathematical imaginary position I think it is not calculable as it is a visible reality). The Eclipse behavior, visibility, sparsha (touching, approaching) and moksha (leaving, separating) periods and its duration, techniques to calculate it, time of eclipse happening etc – all these doesn’t make sense if the astrological Sidhantas like Surya Siddhanta is not speaking about real physical planets. So all these point to the fact that, they are all talking about real planetary positions – the Drik Siddhanta Sputa. If not (would Vinay Jha is true) even the so called beeja corrections are not required. This is not the case, all the above points together clearly shows that Vinay’s arguments and approach (of considering Surya Siddhanta based planetary positions only as spiritual unrelated to reality than physical reality) are totally wrong.

The later day contribution of Aryabhata’s followers is known as Parahita (means acceptable or liked by others - or it also means that it is acceptable to all people from far places too). It was widely used in computing ephemeris and birth charts and even calculating eclipses and all other astrological purposes. Again during later days, it is again found that even those calculations are differing from actual positions and Shri Parameshwara acharya (parameswaran nampoothiri) in 14th century (much before modern reminiscence in Europe) made some corrections after 55yrs research and hard work of astronomical observations, refined further all those calculations. The system he introduced came to be known as “Drik Ganita” (actual Planetary positions ‘as observed’). He also published one text called Grahana mandanam which explains the calculation method to arrive at correct planetary position of sun and moon at eclipses and its timing etc. His work is otherwise also knows Drik Siddhanta and its mathematical calculation is known as Drik Ganita (termed ‘thiru ganita’ in south in general).

He explicitly tells us that he discussed only deviations happened in previous Sidhantas and knowledge of previous Sidhantas is a must and necessary. He requested all scholars to use this as an auxiliary only to those Sidhantas (such as Parahita system). He says -

Viknjaya cha laghu thantram

drishtwa Golasya samstitheem Bahusa

ganakanam santhosha pradam

maya grahana mandanam kriyathe

(4th sloka in first chapter --grahana mandanam)

So we should use the actual positions of planets and hence using modern nautical almanacs is also recommended for astrologers don’t think in future anyone will devote their time for this kind of calculations, if it is already available with the help of modern tools. The only thing we should use and stick to is the predictive principles laid down by ancient sages.

[anuradha]

Deepakji, Sh. K.N Rao ji is following the Parashra and Lahiri ayanamsa giving the wonderfully correct predictions by using the different varga charts. In fact he is one of the pioneers in using the vargas. By using the same one of the astrologers had predicted India's freedom date. There are thousands of correct predictions by using the same method. SSS method may be accepted once it gives better results than the earlier method but by doing so we are not following B.P.H.S. Enigmatic. Regards

[swamykool]

Astroboy,

A very engaging and erudite post. I've been fiddling with SS since I downloaded the new version of JHora. I use my own chart, and here are some of the observations I've made.

Even in the D1 the Nk positions shift in some cases. Using SS my Mercury has shifted from Bharani to Krittika.

The Navamsha positions change to a great degree. My Navamsha actually became better but the problem is I cannot tally this improved Navamsha with my life's events.

The Vimshottari dasha schemes also change. They don't actually become haywire but MDs using the SS scheme start about a year later than the DS and are usually one AD behind the DS. The PDs really go haywire. Things can still be explained but pin point accuracy really suffers. Till date I've received the most accurate results using Drik Siddhanta (this is also called Vishuddha Siddhanta in Bangla Almanacs) and Topocentric positions.

I'm frankly sceptical about planetary emanations and the chhaya, kaya and maya stuff. Although my own handwritten kundli is done using Surya Siddhanta and is broadly accurate, my own forays with SS has been quite disappointing till date.

regards
swamykool

[anuradha]

Deepakji, Apply SSS on the chart of Late Mrs Indira Gandhi. Regards

[lovacrs]

The problem with celebrity charts is that they are all rectified charts, i.e, charts reverse engineered to suit the past events.
I feel it is best to apply SSS after a fresh rectification and then see how it works.

[astro123]

good topic astroboy....i concur with swamykool here..i have been struggling with SSS and unable to tally my past events with the running dashas/bhuktis using SSS while Drik seems to be reasonably spot on...Moon shifts a few degress in my d-1 thereby changing my dasha scheme in the sense that i am running the same MD but a different AD with SSS..When i actually used SSS,all the good events in my life occured with weak/ill-placed planets and stressful events occured with the strong and benefic planet period ..!!! This has left me baffled so i m kinda confused what should be used to analyze and read charts in the furture

thx

[astro123]

There is another running thread reg the same topic

http://www.lightonvedicastrology.com/ph ... =12&t=9158

thx

[astro123]

Interestingly ,narayan dasha does not change a wee bit in my chart with either Drik or SSS..How abt u guys ..Did u see any changes wrt to ND

@ Astroboy- What is Mr Srinivasa Rao 's Opnion on this Drik Vs SSS thing

thx

[swamykool]

astro123,

Interestingly ,narayan dasha does not change a wee bit in my chart with either Drik or SSS..How abt u guys ..Did u see any changes wrt to ND

Narayana Dasha, Chara Dasha etc won't change because they are Jaimini Rashi Dashas and not Nakshatra dashas. They are computed from the rashi of the lagna or 7th from lagna. So their sequence won't change unless lagna itself changes. Like from 29 deg Mesha to 1 deg Vrisha. So the lagna would have to be at either end of a rashi. Which is possible but would be rare. In my exp the difference in degree is at most 5 to 6 degs, rarely more. Nk dashas like Vimshottari, which are computed from the Nk of the moon (or Lagna) are far more susceptible to change and does change between the two siddhantas.

And yes, Srinivas ji's opinion on the 2 Siddhantas would be very very welcome and interesting.

regards
swamykool

[astro123]

thanks swamykool...thats right ..VM will change as Moon gets shifted ahead or back a few degrees in either siddhantas...Guess dont know which one is more reliable now- drik or SSS...Maybe ND is the way to go in case of conflicting analysis

thx

[Nitin21]

When we sit to brainstorm on what is correct, we need to ascertain the right basics. Astrology has two branches: 1) Vedanga Jyotish 2) Phalita Jyotish. While Phalita jyotish is an analytical part of astrology, Vedanga requires immense knowledge about Bhoogol Varnan, Siddhantas, Calculations about real and mean positions of Sun and Moon and other planets. It is far fetched and beyond the reach of anyone on this forum. I think we must debate it only for the sake of learning and not to conclude anything out of it. As we are un-qualified to understand the real astronomy.

I am in favour of SS because the modern astronomy has not given correct details even after umpteen years of research. This whole century and before has been immense propagation of mithya gyan which is in total contrast to the traditional knowledge. We are in 28 Manavantara out of 71 in total, and claim to be ridiculing everything based on which the previous 27 manavantaras have survived. All the accurate astrological calculations by deities in Ramayana and Mahabharata, we are ridiculing by trashing SS knowledge. Where was Drik then? Basics do not change.

For e.g. We have a leap year every 4 years. Is it fixed to that level ? Our calendars are based on time that is fixed, leading to overlaps. Can we surely say that at midnight 12:00 everyday, there will be a systematic position of stars as should be there everyday ? NO..

That is why we have calculations based on Sunrise to Sunrise. Based on the Pravaha Vayu force the planets seem to be drawn towards east and west and their motion is set. Pravaha Vayu is our Siddhantic explanation to Gravity. We take Sunrise to Sunrise calculations, for keeping vratas. Ever heard anyone breaking a vrata at 12:00 Midnight because the date changed ?

Can we surely say that if I was born on 21st March 1975 then on that day everyyear will be completion of one year ?. I was born in Phalguna month of Sukla Ashtami Tithi. Can we say that thsi tithi will fall on 21/march every year ?

The point i am trying to make is Drik Siddhanta is based on seeing planetary motions as is. Whereas our Sidhanta calculations although based on astronomical calculations have a cosmic part attached to it too. IF there was none, then the first time the Satellite was launched on moon, the guy would have come with a curse from Chandra devata for invading his space OR would have got some boons and gifts as favours as a new guest on Moon. Did we witness anything like that?

We have been made to believe that earth revolves round the sun. While our Vedic bhoogol varnan mentions Meru as the centre of the Universe and the movement of Sun causing the days and nights. There are so many things that we cannot decipher as a debate on this forum. It is beyond us. One needs to be well versed in all 4 vedas to be able to decipher the true details. So, I suggest instead of calculations and diameter parts etc, we should discuss the phalita part of it.

--- More to come....

[astroboy]

Anuradha ji, Good day to you .

Believe me , I would be the happiest person in the world if we settle down on Drik Siddhanta to be the absolute correct method to follow . The primary reason is that My own Gurus , All the Books I have read , Including K.N.Rao's Books , have used Drik Siddhanta as a basis for prediction and to explain life's events . The last thing I want is to realise that I was learning the wrong stuff to date .

On the lighter side I have another ulterior motive to ensure that Drik becomes the right Siddhanta . I have spent a lot of money on various jyotish softwares that If SSS was to be made the default setting , Only J Hora would be of use to me . That means all the money I have spent goes down the drain


But let me tell you this , Just because something has been in practice over several years , does not necessarily mean it's perfect . Oil lamps used to serve the purpose and did a good job till the bulb was invented . Now we have CFL's , and even better , The LED's . We have to change , I know it hurts , But it's for the best is it not ?? . I am in full agreement with you that we must give SSS a rigorous work out before we accept it as a default setting .


Best regard's

[astroboy]

by astro123 » Fri Mar 04, 2011 11:08 pm
Interestingly ,narayan dasha does not change a wee bit in my chart with either Drik or SSS..How abt u guys ..Did u see any changes wrt to ND
@ Astroboy- What is Mr Srinivasa Rao 's Opinion on this Drik Vs SSS thing

Very Good day to you astro123,

Srinivas Rao ji and me had a long chat this morning regarding this Topic . We decided to play devil's advocate ...... he for Drik and me for SSS . His point is that the SSS texts have been edited and re-edited so many times , that there were huge scopes for error . His other point is that Drik is a stable platform because the position of the planet can be verified with scientific instruments . I counter argued with him that the Deha and Jeeva are different and that while Drik measures the Deha or rather the Body , SSS was measuring the Diety or rather the Etheral portion of the Planet ........ to put it differently , SSS was measuring the Soul . He countered this with another question ..... " Where is your Jeeva ?? is it not in the Deha ?? You are the one who says that we are the Microcosm of the Macrocosm . " and what is the difference in the measurements between Drik and SSS ?? Its not like there is a 10 Deg difference between them . So it would see that there is a calculation difference between SSS and the actual position of the physical body ..... That has been narrowed with Drik . To be honest , in my opinion he will not budge from Drik because his Guru Gunjur RamaChandra Shastri Ji , with his 50 years of experience in Jyotish used Drik to perfection . It remains to be seen what happens next .

Best regard's

[swamykool]

Sonuji,

The point i am trying to make is Drik Siddhanta is based on seeing planetary motions as is. Whereas our Sidhanta calculations although based on astronomical calculations have a cosmic part attached to it too.

Drik Siddhanta also known as Vishuddha Siddhanta is also 'our' siddhanta as much as Surya Siddhanta. It has been in use for at least 500-600 years.

regards
swamykool

[Nitin21]

Sonuji,

The point i am trying to make is Drik Siddhanta is based on seeing planetary motions as is. Whereas our Sidhanta calculations although based on astronomical calculations have a cosmic part attached to it too.

Drik Siddhanta also known as Vishuddha Siddhanta is also 'our' siddhanta as much as Surya Siddhanta. It has been in use for at least 500-600 years.

regards
swamykool

True. 500-600 years.. What was being used before that ? How was muhurata for Mahabharata War calculated ? It is said that Sahadev and Karna were also great astrologers.

Coming back to more. Drik Siddhanta cannot be ridiculed completely. It is not a waste of effort. We are only zeroing in on perfection. While Drik has been giving us about 70% accuracy. We are yet to see more. More often than not, after so many years of using Drik and assuming that it is 100% correct, we have manipulated BPHS to suit our own theories. So much so, that many eminent astrologers in their video interviews, completely rule out BPHS and others as obsolete, taking charge of experimental ways to conclude. " I have seen around 5000 charts and planet x and planet y combo, yields these results... By a very reputed Astrologer".. what follows is the followers.. Oh If Mr. X astrolgoer who has seen 5000 charts is claiming so, who are we to change that... " So, this must be true. Parasara's age was old and those rules do not hold true anymore. .. this is the best intellectual conclusion that is drawn in the Kali yuga.

Whereas the true picture is that either the birth time is misleading OR degrees and positions of planets have not been true to the mark.

Right from beginning of I joined this forum, I have always gone against experimental results AT THE COST OF RIDICULING CLASSICS.

So, the bottom line. Drik is not trash. It has its own value and results will accrue from that as well. But I would like to know, how many times have we not twisted the classics under Drik, to suit our needs ? How many times have we ridiculed Parasara and Jaimini citing them as age old classics not fitting in todays world ? How much have we done BTR based on borderline cases of birth charts because it was not showing up in Drik ?

I just have these basic questions. Have we being doing all right all along. ?

Again I wish to say, there are many who get good results via drik too. But how many get accurate ones. Many a times we find charts so confusing, everything is right, but the guy is not getting married OR not getting job OR inspite of exalted planets leading a very normal life. We need more introspection. Shri PVR has done a great job by putting in SSS, ahead of Drik.

Rest i have explained in previous post.

---- More to come ----

[astro123]

Thanks a lot for ur input Astroboy... The other thing that comes to my mind is what abt Professional astrologers/Students like us etc use a software other than JHORA which i think does not account for SSS yet..Could they be even aware of the existence of SSS ..I for one had no clue abt Drik siddhantas or any other siddhantas for that matter..It just happened that i use JHORA and SSS showed up ON PVR sir's website as an update..All along i had analyzed or looked at charts using default setting of JHora.. And yes i am no astrologer by any stretch of imagination ..!!!